[internations]

http://rt.com/usa/188908-louisiana-polic...ed-misled/

Minjarez was standing outside the door, hallucinating

Minjarez was cuffed at his hands and feet, then pinned to the ground by at least three cops, surveillance video showed.

Minjarez could be heard saying, “I didn’t do anything, I didn’t do nothing,” the Louisiana Forensic Center’s pathologist report said. Later, he “can be heard screaming, ‘help, help, help me get them off, you’re going to kill me… what the [expletive] did I do’, followed by ‘you’re going to suffocate...’ and “I can’t breathe’ [three] times.”

He was pinned down for four minutes before he stopped breathing.

The cause of death was homicide by suffocation.

"I read to the part where he begged for his life and I just lost it," Cortez said to Reuters. "It was like he died twice."

On Thursday, the FBI confirmed it would investigate the case.

They are also investigating another contentious police-involved death from the same night, which occurred only 20 miles away. In that case, Victor White III was shot dead while handcuffed in the back of a police car in New Iberia, in what the local coroner ruled a suicide. However, family members say it was a police killing, Reuters reported.

Cortez said she wants justice over the death of her son.

[Quintus Curtius]

So, are we supposed to have a new thread of mourning whenever any suspect supposedly is abused by the police?

[The Beast1]

Chronic cocaine user?

Idiot deserved what happened to him. Honestly, learn to f*cking handle the drugs you're consuming or get into rehab.

And when you're tripping the hell out, isolate yourself and talk yourself down. Do NOT involve the police.

[JoyStick]

(10-02-2014 01:03 PM)frenchie Wrote:  

Chronic cocaine user?

Idiot deserved what happened to him. Honestly, learn to f*cking handle the drugs you're consuming or get into rehab.

And when you're tripping the hell out, isolate yourself and talk yourself down. Do NOT involve the police.

He deserved to be murdered by cops? Okaaay

[Enigma]

(10-02-2014 11:33 AM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  

So, are we supposed to have a new thread of mourning whenever any suspect supposedly is abused by the police?

Yes, I'm sure some feminist made a tweet or Youtube video within the past 24 hours that's more deserving of a thread.

[WestIndianArchie]

(10-02-2014 11:33 AM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  

So, are we supposed to have a new thread of mourning whenever any suspect supposedly is abused by the police?

I should hope so.

Or all that conservative/libertarian/"get the state off my back" that the conservatives on this board continually spout should shut the fuck up.

WIA

[svenski7]

(10-03-2014 01:06 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(10-02-2014 11:33 AM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  

So, are we supposed to have a new thread of mourning whenever any suspect supposedly is abused by the police?

I should hope so.

Or all that conservative/libertarian/"get the state off my back" that the conservatives on this board continually spout should shut the fuck up.

WIA

[Foolsgo1d]

(10-02-2014 01:03 PM)frenchie Wrote:  

Chronic cocaine user?

Idiot deserved what happened to him. Honestly, learn to f*cking handle the drugs you're consuming or get into rehab.

And when you're tripping the hell out, isolate yourself and talk yourself down. Do NOT involve the police.

So you prefer cops like these get their hands on some guy who isn't a user and do it to him? They wont be any different.

US police have a serious homicide problem in their ranks. This disconnect between what a police force should be and what it actually is is disturbing.

I would expect this to happen in some third world shithole but it happens in a world super power on a weekly basis.

[threeways]

(10-03-2014 04:23 AM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  

US police have a serious homicide problem in their ranks. This disconnect between what a police force should be and what it actually is is disturbing.

I would expect this to happen in some third world shithole but it happens in a world super power on a weekly basis.

Also, to "Quintus Curtius" and to "Frenchie":

The best way to think about this is : what if it would happen to yourself,
a situation when you are high, or you have some things on your mind
and you do not watch 100.00% everything what is around you,
all it takes is maybe just one moment of not paying attention,
and that is enough for your whole life to end abruptly,
as you end up getting assasinated by the cops,
who abused their power, simply because they know
they get away with murder almost every single time... ?

[Quintus Curtius]

(10-03-2014 01:06 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(10-02-2014 11:33 AM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  

So, are we supposed to have a new thread of mourning whenever any suspect supposedly is abused by the police?

I should hope so.

Or all that conservative/libertarian/"get the state off my back" that the conservatives on this board continually spout should shut the fuck up.

WIA

Archie:

I'm definitely not one of those "conservative/libertarian/"get the state off my back" people you're referring to.

I'm just trying to point out that it's easy to lose perspective every time we hear about some new alleged outrage done by some cop somewhere in the U.S.

In the age of video, everything gets magnified. We see videos of cops abusing people, and certainly I'm against that. But less common are videos of:

People conspiring to commit crimes
People with no impulse control provoking cops for no reason
People disrespecting authority for no reason
People keyed up on dope or alcohol provoking cops
People who needlessly escalate situations with cops by resisting arrest

Also, we lose perspective when we forget just how corrupt and incompetent cops are in Asia, Africa, and South America. Compared to them, U.S. cops are choir boys. Think U.S. cops are corrupt? Take a good look at cops in Brazil or any Asian country and prepare to be humbled.

This is a debate that men of good faith can have endlessly. It all comes down to one's own perspective and life experiences.

My personal view is that there are clearly situations of police abuse and maltreatment, but that these are rare. More common is this reality (as I see it): most of these suspects brought it on themselves.

Most of these guys have no impulse control, have zero respect for authority, are violent, and have chosen to ignore multiple warnings to calm down.

I remember dealing with the police in Germany. Those guys were the epitome of discipline. And with the Polizei, it's all about respect. Respect, a word that people in the US have forgotten, for the most part. You disrespect the German Polizei, prepare for an immediate attitude correction.

As it should be.

[The Beast1]

(10-03-2014 12:39 PM)threeways Wrote:  

(10-03-2014 04:23 AM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  

US police have a serious homicide problem in their ranks. This disconnect between what a police force should be and what it actually is is disturbing.

I would expect this to happen in some third world shithole but it happens in a world super power on a weekly basis.

Also, to "Quintus Curtius" and to "Frenchie":

The best way to think about this is : what if it would happen to yourself,
a situation when you are high, or you have some things on your mind
and you do not watch 100.00% everything what is around you,
all it takes is maybe just one moment of not paying attention,
and that is enough for your whole life to end abruptly,
as you end up getting assasinated by the cops,
who abused their power, simply because they know
they get away with murder almost every single time... ?

As someone who has used pot, LSD, mushrooms, and cocaine and was able to hold his shit together I expect another consenting adult to be able to do the same. Seriously it is not hard.

I'll back track and say the police need to learn some restraint. The cop didn't need to pin himself on such a smaller guy.

However, I am not shedding a tear for this junky's demise. It's guys like him that make eliminating bigger enemies like the DEA and the arcane drug laws impossible because idiots can't handle their drugs.

(10-03-2014 04:23 AM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  

(10-02-2014 01:03 PM)frenchie Wrote:  

Chronic cocaine user?

Idiot deserved what happened to him. Honestly, learn to f*cking handle the drugs you're consuming or get into rehab.

And when you're tripping the hell out, isolate yourself and talk yourself down. Do NOT involve the police.

So you prefer cops like these get their hands on some guy who isn't a user and do it to him? They wont be any different.

US police have a serious homicide problem in their ranks. This disconnect between what a police force should be and what it actually is is disturbing.

I would expect this to happen in some third world shithole but it happens in a world super power on a weekly basis.

I agree, there should be some restraint. However this didn't happen to a peaceful protestor or a complying individual. It happened to a junky who lost control. There comes a point when personable responsibility takes over. Accidents happen and in this case had he not been coked out of his mind this would not have happened.

[WestIndianArchie]

(10-03-2014 01:00 PM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  

I'm just trying to point out that it's easy to lose perspective every time we hear about some new alleged outrage done by some cop somewhere in the U.S.

In the age of video, everything gets magnified. We see videos of cops abusing people, and certainly I'm against that. But less common are videos of:

People conspiring to commit crimes
People with no impulse control provoking cops for no reason
People disrespecting authority for no reason
People keyed up on dope or alcohol provoking cops
People who needlessly escalate situations with cops by resisting arrest

Also, we lose perspective when we forget just how corrupt and incompetent cops are in Asia, Africa, and South America. Compared to them, U.S. cops are choir boys. Think U.S. cops are corrupt? Take a good look at cops in Brazil or any Asian country and prepare to be humbled.

This is a debate that men of good faith can have endlessly. It all comes down to one's own perspective and life experiences.

My personal view is that there are clearly situations of police abuse and maltreatment, but that these are rare. More common is this reality (as I see it): most of these suspects brought it on themselves.

Most of these guys have no impulse control, have zero respect for authority, are violent, and have chosen to ignore multiple warnings to calm down.

I remember dealing with the police in Germany. Those guys were the epitome of discipline. And with the Polizei, it's all about respect. Respect, a word that people in the US have forgotten, for the most part. You disrespect the German Polizei, prepare for an immediate attitude correction.

As it should be.

This is concern trolling at it's height. Some anonymous internet voice trying to stop people from posting messages on a message board, because

- people might lose perspective

Some people need to GAIN perspective, and step outside of their sheltered world, where Anita Sarkeesian is the gravest threat to life and liberty.

Meanwhile the cops kill someone every 28 hours.
Meanwhile there are more extrajudicial killings than executions.

But your personal view is that these things are rare...

lol

WIA

[TheWastelander]

(10-03-2014 01:00 PM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  

My personal view is that there are clearly situations of police abuse and maltreatment, but that these are rare. More common is this reality (as I see it): most of these suspects brought it on themselves.

Most of these guys have no impulse control, have zero respect for authority, are violent, and have chosen to ignore multiple warnings to calm down.

I remember dealing with the police in Germany. Those guys were the epitome of discipline. And with the Polizei, it's all about respect. Respect, a word that people in the US have forgotten, for the most part. You disrespect the German Polizei, prepare for an immediate attitude correction.

As it should be.

I largely agree with you that a lot of these people unnecessarily antagonize the police, however, bad behavior does not justify bad (or worse) behavior. Just as many of these folks have poor impulse control, the impulse control of a small (yet very visible in this age of technology) percentage of police in this country is almost as poor. These are the cops constantly showing up in these videos.

I think there are larger societal and political issues at work that people gloss over when examining or focusing on any one individual case of police abuse. If people truly are tired of all this then they need to change the political system that enables it.

That being said, I think it is simply best for people to avoid the police at all costs unless they need them for an absolute emergency. Expecting decency, morality, or restraint from them is a foolish gamble, because you never know who you're going to get.

We would all do well to remember that, fundamentally, the police are paid to enforce the laws of the state with violence, no matter what they may be, and that these people in uniform eagerly sought out that job knowing full well they might be called on to dole out violence to the moral and immoral alike.

I'm with Thoreau on the police.

Quote:

The mass of men serve the state thus, not as men mainly, but as machines, with their bodies. They are the standing army, and the militia, jailers, constables, posse comitatus,(7) etc. In most cases there is no free exercise whatever of the judgment or of the moral sense; but they put themselves on a level with wood and earth and stones; and wooden men can perhaps be manufactured that will serve the purpose as well. Such command no more respect than men of straw or a lump of dirt. They have the same sort of worth only as horses and dogs. Yet such as these even are commonly esteemed good citizens. Others, as most legislators, politicians, lawyers, ministers, and office-holders, serve the state chiefly with their heads; and, as they rarely make any moral distinctions, they are as likely to serve the devil, without intending it, as God.

http://thoreau.eserver.org/civil1.html

I treat them like I would a rattlesnake. I keep them well beyond arm's length and while I know they serve a useful purpose keeping the vermin population in check I also know that if they want they can find a reason to bite me too.

[2Wycked]

(10-03-2014 01:06 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(10-02-2014 11:33 AM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  

So, are we supposed to have a new thread of mourning whenever any suspect supposedly is abused by the police?

I should hope so.

Or all that conservative/libertarian/"get the state off my back" that the conservatives on this board continually spout should shut the fuck up.

WIA

An incredibly rude and disrespectful comment. Towards Quintus, no less.

If you are going to call out all the "conservative/libertarians" on this board that need "to shut the fuck up," then go ahead and name them or call them out in the threads they start.

As far as QC is concerned, he isn't an anonymous voice, pictures of himself are on his Twitter and he just did an interview with Matt Forney - and the thread is on the first fucking page of this subforum!

QC posts a thoughtful response and you double-down on mocking him, flop out a stat with no link or context and then conclude, "lol."

You attacked QC to tilt away at a strawman.

[Travesty]

Abused is a weak word for murder.

[BortimusPrime]

(10-03-2014 04:33 PM)2Wycked Wrote:  

(10-03-2014 01:06 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(10-02-2014 11:33 AM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  

So, are we supposed to have a new thread of mourning whenever any suspect supposedly is abused by the police?

I should hope so.

Or all that conservative/libertarian/"get the state off my back" that the conservatives on this board continually spout should shut the fuck up.

WIA

An incredibly rude and disrespectful comment. Towards Quintus, no less.

If you are going to call out all the "conservative/libertarians" on this board that need "to shut the fuck up," then go ahead and name them or call them out in the threads they start.

As far as QC is concerned, he isn't an anonymous voice, pictures of himself are on his Twitter and he just did an interview with Matt Forney - and the thread is on the first fucking page of this subforum!

QC posts a thoughtful response and you double-down on mocking him, flop out a stat with no link or context and then conclude, "lol."

You attacked QC to tilt away at a strawman.

I think the shut the fuck up part was meant as: "If you're going to be a libertarian and complain about abuse of power by the state then you should have a problem with police murders." If coercion by the state is unethical it's only consistent if you apply that premise to minorities and druggies, not just the Ayn Rand ubermensch businessmen supposedly crushed by income tax.

[jimukr104]

Quote:

Meanwhile the cops kill someone every 28 hours.
Meanwhile there are more extrajudicial killings than executions.

I know I will be considered a bias source but here is something to think about:
I don't care if someone gets killed EVERY 28 minutes by cops. The only IMPORTANT figure is HOW MANY OF THOSE killings are because of protecting the cop himself or other innocent person from harm or as some illogical people have said--murder.

Hate to break it to you but the VAST Majority of those killings fit under Clint Eastwoods 'they had a killin coming to them'. Some folks on here actually seem to forget that America is actually filled with violent murderers, rapist and gangs that do VIOLENCE. Thus the violent response.

It is a very small minority as a % that are actually for no good reason or even by accident. Something to think about.

Yeah, the threads on here about the overbearing cops is somewhat an enigma to me. I will explain: Most liberals hate cops..the same guys who are feminists, betas and a whole host of other problems.

In my experience most conservatives or/and Republicans, especially suburban middle class and the elites value THEM. Most conservatives I know only issue with the law is gun control(they want to have lots of them)..they could care less about thugs, druggies, etc. In fact they probably want them all OUT..death is a way out.

I took MOST members on here as somewhat conservative because of the anti feminist, and other anti progressiveness mentality of our membership. I guess I was mistaken!

PS--those from Cali are forgiven... too many decades of progressive/liberal brainwashing lol.

ps #2 According to the FBI, in 2012, there were 8,855 total firearm-related homicides in the US. 400 cop related shootings is less than 1 in 20...if you ask me that means cops are doing a bad job. They aren't even putting down 5% of the murderers who are going around shooting people. That doesn't include the thousands that are using knives, baseball bats, etc. Of course the stats are simplistic.

Quote:

We would all do well to remember that, fundamentally, the police are paid to enforce the laws of the state with violence, no matter what they may be, and that these people in uniform eagerly sought out that job knowing full well they might be called on to dole out violence to the moral and immoral alike.

Agree 100%..although most sought the job for the pension and benefits and to make the place safer for the 99% that don't cause trouble and violence in society. I think 80% come from middle class and upper middle class suburbs where they grew up with a safe and controlled environment.

But I certainly learned that LAW ENFORCEMENT is basically being a hired gun (aka Wyatt Earp, etc) for the gov't.

The gov't officials can't get their hands dirty so they have lower level officials do that..COPS. That being said, somebody has to do it, but I guess if leaders actually did the grunt work than they might change the laws.

Kind of how leaders are able to sacrifice troops and even have a draft knowing they themselves face no risks.

Quote:

I think there are larger societal and political issues at work that people gloss over when examining or focusing on any one individual case of police abuse. If people truly are tired of all this then they need to change the political system that enables it.

Exactly but that is unlikely to change because of the fact that elected leaders represent the rich and conservative upper middle class. These are the people that want law and order and a controlled society.

Police brutality cases actually makes their lives easier because it puts the anger on the cops and gives a free pass to those that control the cops by being in power, making laws, etc. Without these incidents they might actually have to take responsibility.

A good example is STREET CRIME UNIT. After the big negative publicity the leaders publicly disbanded it. REALITY: they reformed again under a different name. All one big game being played by your elected and appointed leaders.

[Travesty]

^ Ironic Californians living in a virtual Police State don't admire it.

[TheWastelander]

(10-03-2014 04:57 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

Quote:

Meanwhile the cops kill someone every 28 hours.
Meanwhile there are more extrajudicial killings than executions.

I know I will be considered a bias source but here is something to think about:
I don't care if someone gets killed EVERY 28 minutes by cops. The only IMPORTANT figure is HOW MANY OF THOSE killings are because of protecting the cop himself or other innocent person from harm or as some illogical people have said--murder.

Hate to break it to you but the VAST Majority of those killings fit under Clint Eastwoods 'they had a killin coming to them'. Some folks on here actually seem to forget that America is actually filled with violent murderers, rapist and gangs that do VIOLENCE. Thus the violent response.

It is a very small minority as a % that are actually for no good reason or even by accident. Something to think about.

Yeah, the threads on here about the overbearing cops is somewhat an enigma to me. I will explain: Most liberals hate cops..the same guys who are feminists, betas and a whole host of other problems.

In my experience most conservatives or/and Republicans, especially suburban middle class and the elites value THEM. Most conservatives I know only issue with the law is gun control(they want to have lots of them)..they could care less about thugs, druggies, etc. In fact they probably want them all OUT..death is a way out.

I took MOST members on here as somewhat conservative because of the anti feminist, and other anti progressiveness mentality of our membership. I guess I was mistaken!

PS--those from Cali are forgiven... too many decades of progressive/liberal brainwashing lol.

ps #2 According to the FBI, in 2012, there were 8,855 total firearm-related homicides in the US. 400 cop related shootings is less than 1 in 20...if you ask me that means cops are doing a bad job. They aren't even putting down 5% of the murderers who are going around shooting people. That doesn't include the thousands that are using knives, baseball bats, etc. Of course the stats are simplistic.

As a conservative libertarian I think we're seeing a slow shift of the right away from kneejerk support of the police 100% of the time. There is increasing concern over the proliferation and usage of SWAT teams for everything from domestic disputes to raids on barbershops over business license issues. There's also a brewing movement opposed to no knock raids that put both citizens and police in danger and lead to things like SWAT officers tossing flash grenades in babies' cribs.

Some of the older conservatives I talk to who supported police in their day are suspicious of the what the profession's becoming and of the militarized soldiered-up cops in their towns.

The liberal talking heads only seem to care about police abuse when there's a racial angle they can exploit.

But if you look at it, the big cities controlled by Democrats often have very corrupt, abusive police departments. Chicago, Philly, etc. etc.

Their attitude seems to me to be more of a "if only we had the right people in charge" one. They don't seem fundamentally opposed to much of what's happening, only when it happens to minorities.

[ball dont lie]

Have not seen video.

Have been around some people having a good time, drinking heavily, doing drugs. People get out of control. Had a friend on acid and stimulants fall off a porch and hit his head on a ledge ripping most of his ear off. Lots of screaming.

If a cop put his forearm or knee on some guys throat or chest for 4 minutes and then dies, it seems like a pretty open and shut case for murder.

[Sebastian]

Maybe It would bother me for a bit when I read something like this but I would just go on with my life since things like this won't happen to me.

I Honestly Don't Care.
when I say something like this to the issues like this or related to 3rd world country (women getting killed by going to schoo, kids starving etc), people will say 'you are heartless' then I would ask them what they have actually done to make it better. I bet they are just like me and haven't done anything.

[threeways]

(10-03-2014 01:00 PM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  

Also, we lose perspective when we forget just how corrupt and incompetent cops are in Asia, Africa, and South America.

Respect, a word that people in the US have forgotten, for the most part.

Oh, so if you do not respect policemen,
then it's good to be executed/murdered/assasinated on the spot
by policemen ?

No trial, no court of law, just executed/murdered/assasinated on the spot
by policemen, as it happens every 28 hours nowadays in US.

And we should just be grateful that maybe in Africa, the african policemen are worse ???

Wow, just wow....

[WestIndianArchie]

(10-03-2014 04:33 PM)2Wycked Wrote:  

(10-03-2014 01:06 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(10-02-2014 11:33 AM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  

So, are we supposed to have a new thread of mourning whenever any suspect supposedly is abused by the police?

I should hope so.

Or all that conservative/libertarian/"get the state off my back" that the conservatives on this board continually spout should shut the fuck up.

WIA

An incredibly rude and disrespectful comment. Towards Quintus, no less.

If you are going to call out all the "conservative/libertarians" on this board that need "to shut the fuck up," then go ahead and name them or call them out in the threads they start.

As far as QC is concerned, he isn't an anonymous voice, pictures of himself are on his Twitter and he just did an interview with Matt Forney - and the thread is on the first fucking page of this subforum!

QC posts a thoughtful response and you double-down on mocking him, flop out a stat with no link or context and then conclude, "lol."

You attacked QC to tilt away at a strawman.

QC can defend himself. But since you want to white knight for the a cause of purposeful ignorance

I'm not going to be put into a position of doing a research paper on police violence when that very topic has been in the news for the past 2 months. With tons of stories about St. Louis cops, Utah Cops, Cops in Staten Island, cops shooting blacks, whites, latinos... And has been part of the general consciousness since at least 1992.

If anyone doubts that the police as a matter of course kill unarmed citizens on a regular basis, I don't know what to tell you. If you doubt police beatings, police corruption, systemic problems with the justice system even after decades of examples - there's no convincing you. You're married to the mainstream perception, which is the blue pill of what really goes on this country.

Whatever # I bring up will be dismissed.
Whatever report or study I cite, will be be re-interpreted
Whatever personal or professional anecdote I bring to bear will just have people refocus the attention on some inane detail.

And all of this because the apple cart of someone's delicate sensibilities are put off because someone make's a meaningless post on a meaningless message board.

This is concern trolling at its height.

You should be concerned that that armed agents of the government regularly shirk their duty and kill people because they feel disrespected.

WIA

[Faust]

"Also, we lose perspective when we forget just how corrupt and incompetent cops are in Asia, Africa, and South America. Compared to them, U.S. cops are choir boys. Think U.S. cops are corrupt? Take a good look at cops in Brazil or any Asian country and prepare to be humbled. "

Asian cops are pretty bad, sure. You don't fuck with them if you've got a lick of sense. The smart thing to do is just keep your distance. I have no experience with cops in Brazil, so I can't say how things are down there. I'm willing to just take your word for it that they're worse than US cops.

But the question you have to ask is this: why are they worse? There's nothing in the water over in Brazil that makes their cops violent. Asian cops aren't genetically more prone to beating people. The reason ours are better than theirs is because we can, to some small degree, hold corrupt and violent cops accountable for their actions. We may not do it as much as I'd like, but it still happens.

If we stop holding cops accountable for their misdeeds, and we start saying, "The perp probably had it coming," then it won't be long until ours are as bad as anywhere else's. And the first part of holding them accountable is knowing what they're up to. Posting threads like this is one (extremely) small step away from the kind of brutality you see in the rest of the world.

"My personal view is that there are clearly situations of police abuse and maltreatment, but that these are rare. More common is this reality (as I see it): most of these suspects brought it on themselves. "

Do you feel that this applies in the case posted? Did the slain man deserve to be suffocated to death?

[Nalka]

The problem here is that the scum deserve some kind of instant karma. I would be fine with the cops smacking them up a bit if they are fighting the cops or resisting arrest or some other such foolishness but sufficating someone to death who does not present a threat to you is just murder plain and simple and can not be justified in any way.
The irony is that cops would like to hit these fools but that would be "police brutality" so they sit on top of them and choke them and pretend that they are "restraining" them.