[speakeasy]

This is an old story, but the findings are interesting:

http://www2.lbl.gov/Science-Articles/Arc...-tire.html

Even when you look at runners, most of them still will gain weight as they age. I'm realizing that it's very difficult for me to lower my body fat percentage. My dietary habits I'm pretty sure have not changed much since my 20s, in fact I probably eat healthier now than I did then. 20 years ago, I weighed around 145lbs. Now I'm 190lbs even though I'm way more careful about what I eat and get way more exercise. And it's extremely difficult for me to stay under 190. If I start starving myself and skipping meals for while and exercising, I might dip into the mid 180s. Getting into the 170s seems like a pipe dream. I'm somewhere between 20-25% body fat and would like to get down to 15%, but can't seem to be able to do it.

If you are clearly obese, like someone who is 5'8" and 250lbs, diet change and exercise can cause rapid weight lose. But you get to a point where you start hitting your genetics and that same effort starts making minimal difference. I can tell my body wants to be around 190-195.

I'm starting to lose hope and feel like fighting your genetics is a Sisyphean task.

[Sherman]

I dispute the conclusions of this article. I am over fifty and I am my correct weight and maintain a waist size of 32". Exercise will contribute little to losing weight without a proper diet. If you follow the simple law of physics, expend more energy than you consume, you will lose weight - guaranteed. Several years ago I followed a simple calorie counting diet and lost 60 pounds. Sometimes the simple methods are better and the complexity throws sand in your face.

[Hades]

Distance running is not very effective for losing weight, and that study will back me on it. I'm not sure what to say but low carb diets have always worked great for me.

Quote:

By annually increasing weekly running distance by about 1.4 miles, we estimate that the effects of exercise should compensate for the expected weight gain during middle age. What this means is that runners who average 10 miles per week at age 30 should increase their weekly running distance to 24 miles by age 40 if they plan to still fit into the tuxedo they bought a decade earlier."

I thought this quote was kind of insane. I don't plan on being significantly more active when I'm older and more liable to have fucked up my knees at some point.

[RawGod]

(09-25-2014 12:55 AM)Hades Wrote:  

Distance running is not very effective for losing weight, and that study will back me on it. I'm not sure what to say but low carb diets have always worked great for me.

Quote:

By annually increasing weekly running distance by about 1.4 miles, we estimate that the effects of exercise should compensate for the expected weight gain during middle age. What this means is that runners who average 10 miles per week at age 30 should increase their weekly running distance to 24 miles by age 40 if they plan to still fit into the tuxedo they bought a decade earlier."

I thought this quote was kind of insane. I don't plan on being significantly more active when I'm older and more liable to have fucked up my knees at some point.

When there is an apparent paradox, re-examine your basic assumptions.

http://tnation.t-nation.com/free_online_...es_you_fat

Turns out running distance into middle age will stress your body and make you fat. Chronic cortisol --> abdominal fat.

Cut carbs, eat lots of fat and do anaerobic exercise i.e. lift heavy.

[StrikeBack]

Quote:

I'm starting to lose hope and feel like fighting your genetics is a Sisyphean task.

Are you sure you're fighting your genetics?

Or are you fighting a lifestyle and a lack of knowledge on how to get leaner and stay so?

I've seen countless transformations of people in their 30s and above, some in their 60s like my own father, from fat to fit, that I believe it is lifestyle habits and lack of effective training & nutrition knowledge holding people back more than their genetics.

Or to paraphrase a former coach of mine: "Funny that your genetics get better when you work harder and smarter"

[Thomas the Rhymer]

I don't see as many middle-aged weightlifters complaining about body fat compared to middle-aged runners. I'm sure there's a lesson in that.

In fact, middle-aged and elderly weightlifters consistently look a lot healthier to my clinical eye than middle-aged and elderly runners.

Seems like the key to controlling fat as you get older is to get plenty of iron:

[Giovonny]

speakeasy,

I would love to help you lose body fat..

But, first, I would need to see a 30 day food log.

Write down everything you eat for one month and post it here or pm it to me.

For starters, why don't you post a typical breakfast, lunch, dinner, and snacks that you would eat. Be sure to include all of the weekend snacking and drinking that you do.

This is step 1 in learning how to stay lean.

Genetics are a big factor but the food we eat is just as important.

[solo]

(09-24-2014 11:15 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

If you are clearly obese, like someone who is 5'8" and 250lbs, diet change and exercise can cause rapid weight lose. But you get to a point where you start hitting your genetics and that same effort starts making minimal difference. I can tell my body wants to be around 190-195.

I'm starting to lose hope and feel like fighting your genetics is a Sisyphean task.

I am coming to the same conclusion. I'm an ectomorph and disliked being skinny and not so strong when I was younger. So I started lifting weights and after 10 years I had become muscular enough to get compliments about it from girls every now and again. Not big by most people's definition but still. I was also one of the strongest guys in the gym (meatheads excepted).

But then I got injured about a year ago and haven't recovered since.

What do we really gain by fighting genetics? It's impossible anyway and therefore better to adapt to them.

We can still train to be strong and healthy. But taking on these Sisyphean tasks to completely and radically alter our bodies is just not worth it. Life is too short. Like you, I can tell that my body wants to be in a certain way. Then it's better to let it. If you force it to be in another way, nature will punish you in some way.

Everything in moderation.

[StrikeBack]

Giovonny's suggestion is excellent.

Everybody who's asked me for advice on how to lose fat has been given a very similar reply, except that I only ask for one week's log. Everyone who's followed through with it has lost fat and stayed lean. The vast majority do not, however.

The exercise is largely mental. It reveals your dietary habits, which you may not want to admit to yourself.

[Sherman]

It's not genetics that is making everyone fat. It's the American diet and processed food. Look at pictures of the 1940s and see how slim everyone was back in the days when people ate real food. Make an excel spread sheet and record the calories of everything you eat for the day and sum it up. You can go on the web and find an estimate for your activity level of how much energy you expend for a day. As an example, let us say you expend 2500 calories a day. Your spread shows you eat 3500 calories a day. That means 1000 calories a day is going to be stored as fat, and as long as you eat more than you expend in energy, you will be getting more fat. This is also an educational process, because you become aware of the cost of everything you eat and you learn how to select the quantity of food to eat. To go on a diet, just create a deficit in calories.

Get calories

http://caloriecount.about.com/

Estimate daily calorie needs

http://www.freedieting.com/tools/calorie_calculator.htm

[DavidZRH]

I think it's important to distinguish between upper belly fat and lower belly fat. Upper belly is defined as above the belly button. That fat is easier to lose than lower belly fat.

I have read a lot about this. Especially on bodybuilding.com and other forums. There are people who eat at a calorie deficit continuously and still have trouble losing lower belly fat. And the older you get, the harder it is to lose lower belly fat.

I have been cutting for about 4 weeks now. The upper belly fat is back to were it was before I started bulking. I have only dropped about 3 pounds. The lower belly fat has shrunk, but it's still visibly there.

DavidZRH

[birdie num num]

Are you eating wheat, including whole grains? That might be part of the problem. Two slices of whole wheat bread can raise your blood sugar more than 2 tablespoons of white sugar can.

I recently finished the book Wheat Belly. It's an interesting read and the author explains how modern genetically manipulated wheat is to blame for many health problems, not just weight gain. It drives up one's insulin and throws the body's metabolism out of whack.

http://www.amazon.com/Wheat-Belly-Lose-W...1609611543

Cut out all grains and see if that makes any difference. I'm currently trying this. As others mentioned, use your own body as an experiment.

[speakeasy]

(09-25-2014 03:37 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

speakeasy,

I would love to help you lose body fat..

But, first, I would need to see a 30 day food log.

Write down everything you eat for one month and post it here or pm it to me.

For starters, why don't you post a typical breakfast, lunch, dinner, and snacks that you would eat. Be sure to include all of the weekend snacking and drinking that you do.

This is step 1 in learning how to stay lean.

Genetics are a big factor but the food we eat is just as important.

Yeah, that's a good idea. I will start recording my calories starting next monday. Might get tricky at times though because sometimes I just grab a handful of nuts here and there and there and eat them I don't count how many nuts or what type they are since they vary widely in calories.

I stopped lifting weights a few months ago and switched to cardio. I felt like I was bulking, but I wasn't losing fat, which was giving me a "husky" look rather than a shredded and muscular look. I figured I'd be better off focusing on body fat reduction and then focus on bulking so that I don't get that wrestler looking body.

My breakfast the last month typically consists of green tea and a cup of oatmeal. Throughout the rest of the day it's highly variable. I don't eat much fast food at all and I'd be surprised if I was over 2000 calories a day, though we often eat more than we think we do. I hardly touch sodas and drink mostly water. I'm not really a calorie counter but I know my diet hasn't made in dramatic diet changes in years and I exercise more, yet I weigh much more. So something metabolic must be at work.

edit -- I do need to work on cutting shitty carbs though.

(09-26-2014 02:09 PM)DavidZRH Wrote:  

I think it's important to distinguish between upper belly fat and lower belly fat. Upper belly is defined as above the belly button. That fat is easier to lose than lower belly fat.

I have read a lot about this. Especially on bodybuilding.com and other forums. There are people who eat at a calorie deficit continuously and still have trouble losing lower belly fat. And the older you get, the harder it is to lose lower belly fat.

I have been cutting for about 4 weeks now. The upper belly fat is back to were it was before I started bulking. I have only dropped about 3 pounds. The lower belly fat has shrunk, but it's still visibly there.

DavidZRH

Mine is lower belly. I have little fat below the waist, can't even pinch up any skin on my legs. I can even see some soft muscular definition in my upper arms. I don't have moobs or anything. My physique is similar to the pic on the left, so I assume I'm somewhere around 20% bf. It's lower waist body fat that is ridiculous stubborn to get rid of. I used to do Krav Maga 4x a week and that shit is as intense as any boot camp program. And even that didn't put a dent in it. I can't believe how stubborn it is to get rid of, that's why I'm afraid my genetics are playing a big role here.

[CaptainCrazy]

(09-27-2014 12:23 AM)speakeasy Wrote:  

What's the pic says 7% is NOT 7% bodyfat. Very far from 7%. 7% is very close to a competitive bodybuilder before the competition.

[Jack198]

(09-26-2014 09:42 AM)Sherman Wrote:  

It's not genetics that is making everyone fat. It's the American diet and processed food. Look at pictures of the 1940s and see how slim everyone was back in the days when people ate real food.

So few people stop to think about this. While genetics play *some* role here, people back then didn't work out and only true weirdos went to the gym. Nobody had fru-fru diets back then, they just didn't eat a hell of a lot and most food wasn't processed - yet. Jack LaLanne figured it out and people still thought he was a little nutty.

After WW2 and into the successive decades, cheap, shitty food became the norm, restaurant portions ballooned and corn syrup made its way into damn near everything we eat. The past few decades the obesity map of the country spread like cancer to the point where a significant portion of the American military aged male population cannot qualify for enlistment.

That said, it might be worth a look as to how many carbs you down. I've gone pretty much paleo (modified - not totally cutting out all fruits and veggies) and been much better for it. Used to do distance running but cut that down to a few miles a week. I love running but gravity is a reality and by the time middle age shows up your joints will be calling in their loans if you aren't careful. If you run regularly, it's well worth getting new running shoes after six months of use, regardless of what they look like.

[Parlay44]

American food is Shiite. That's a given. Your T levels also drop as you get older.
Testosterone is the best fat burner.

Why do you think gay guys are always so skinny?
Because they're recycling each other's testosterone

[Jack198]

^.....ew.


...wait - is that a Brit talking shit about food? Oh, the irony! You guys know breakfast, but as to the rest, just be thankful all those immigrants helped you out with tasty food options.

You should check this book out - you are not exempt. Ha!

[cmrocks]

Eat less. Do more. It's not that complicated.

[Giovonny]

(09-27-2014 12:23 AM)speakeasy Wrote:  

I will start recording my calories starting next monday.

I don't care about calories (at this point), I just want to see what you are eating.

Why wait til "next Monday" to start recording what you eat?

Post what you ate yesterday and post what you eat today.

Waiting til "next Monday" gives you a chance to clean up your diet and make changes to it BEFORE you submit the food log. This will not give me an accurate look at what you have been eating. This would be a watered down, artificially enhanced view of your diet. I need to see the real thing. I need to see all the bad stuff that you have been eating. Don't adjust your diet and than start recording it. Show me the bad stuff, this is the only way I can help you.

(09-27-2014 12:23 AM)speakeasy Wrote:  

so that I don't get that wrestler looking body.

I think that you should aim for wrestlers type of body. Wrestlers are often very fit.

I think a "wrestlers body" be a vast improvement.

(09-27-2014 12:23 AM)speakeasy Wrote:  

edit -- I do need to work on cutting shitty carbs though.

Post all the shitty carbs you eat, that is the only way we can help you.

[The Beast1]

Screw long distance running. That's the reason so many people are getting fat in middle age. At a minimum a 7 minute mile is good benchmark to go for. Beyond that strength training is the most effective means of controlling fat gains.

[Cattle Rustler]

(09-27-2014 01:14 PM)frenchie Wrote:  

Screw long distance running. That's the reason so many people are getting fat in middle age. At a minimum a 7 minute mile is good benchmark to go for. Beyond that strength training is the most effective means of controlling fat gains.

So lift weights instead of cycling 30 miles?

[berserk]

(09-27-2014 07:51 AM)Jack198 Wrote:  

(09-26-2014 09:42 AM)Sherman Wrote:  

It's not genetics that is making everyone fat. It's the American diet and processed food. Look at pictures of the 1940s and see how slim everyone was back in the days when people ate real food.

So few people stop to think about this. While genetics play *some* role here, people back then didn't work out and only true weirdos went to the gym. Nobody had fru-fru diets back then, they just didn't eat a hell of a lot and most food wasn't processed - yet. Jack LaLanne figured it out and people still thought he was a little nutty.

After WW2 and into the successive decades, cheap, shitty food became the norm, restaurant portions ballooned and corn syrup made its way into damn near everything we eat. The past few decades the obesity map of the country spread like cancer to the point where a significant portion of the American military aged male population cannot qualify for enlistment.

That said, it might be worth a look as to how many carbs you down. I've gone pretty much paleo (modified - not totally cutting out all fruits and veggies) and been much better for it. Used to do distance running but cut that down to a few miles a week. I love running but gravity is a reality and by the time middle age shows up your joints will be calling in their loans if you aren't careful. If you run regularly, it's well worth getting new running shoes after six months of use, regardless of what they look like.

Back then women cooked food, so that men working all day shouldn't have to be bothered by cooking their own food.

[Vaun]

So we all know that long slow distance running sucks, unless you are a marathon(er) - e.g. running multiple marathons in a year. Running related injuries have created a booming orthopedic industry. The longer you run = the easier you hurt.

I workout with several dudes in their 50's, 60's and 70's who are buff as hell with low body fat.

This guy is a bad ass and over 70



Here is what I am following on the edge of 40:

- Pick one diet and stick with it - For me its Slow Carb

- Little if no drinking - For me 2-3x per week, and thats too much

- SLEEP - Figure it out, track it, tweek it, go to your Dr., do whatever it takes to sleep

- Build Muscle with an Easy Workout Plan - you dont need to be a bodybuilder, just a simple plan that allows you to be CONSISTENT. Try the 40 Day Workout, or 5-3-1, or CrossFit. Just something that builds muscle, power, cardio and everything in one routine. For fat loss I love jump roping, which also makes your feet extremely strong and builds your lower legs for when you feel like that randon 10 mile hike. I love kettlebells too because they torch fat, build flexibility and cardio.

- Dump That Bitch - Don't be with a women that brings you down. One that doesn't value health and fitness, or prevents you from achieving your goals. One that mocks your goals for health and fitness, and does her best to ruin them. In my opinion this is usually the cause for accelerated middle aging.

- Testosterone - Get tested regularly and figure out a protocol to raise it naturally, prior to supplementation.

- EDIT - per Gio's recommendation - this is my favorite food tracking app, I pay for the subscription - tracker.dailyburn.com

[Foolsgo1d]

Long distance running is terrible. Jogging too. Anything to do with that type of exercise is like taking a hammer to your knee's. Sprint training is good however.

Anything that puts repeated impact stress on your knee's and legs is bad for you. My dad tells me squats are bad for you but then I point him to people who do running or tennis/squats/badminton. He has come across many people with hip/knee replacements and not a single one of them were from squatting.

Unless you fuck up doing a squat I can't see how running is considered more healthy.


Also, ketonic diet isn't the be all end all of diets. Lumping fruits into the bad carb camp because of fructose sugar is absurd.

[Cattle Rustler]

Fuck this, I'm going on ketosis!