[Sonsowey]

Roosh had an interesting post recently stating that when you are abroad, part of your value is specifically that you speak English and provide girls with an opportunity to practice their English.

I have noticed in fact that in many places, speaking the language can almost be seen as a detriment, because you are on the girls' playing field, and more than likely you are not 100% fluent.

So how have you guys done abroad without speaking the language, vs. speaking the language?

Is it a viable strategy for a lot of you to go abroad, never learn more than a few basic phrases, and just focus on girls who speak enough English to communicate with you? Does this even lead to better results than if you spend the time and effort to learn the language?

I'm sure this varies by country depending on a lot of variables.

[OMYG]

I have found that I can use my English as bait at least to hook them and set myself apart from the native guys. Since I'm really fluent in the language (im in mexico) it hard for me to fake that I don't know the language because opportunities where I can be witty and use the slang come about.

On the other hand if you're fluent in a language and you speak it well then it could also work in your favor since they will see you mastered their language but I believe this only applies if you look exotic and you are clearly not a native. In my case I look like a local so me talking to a girl in her language is already labeling me as one of the average joe's in her city.

[RoadKill503]

I took two years of German classes before heading over to work in Germany for three years. Aside from reading directions, menus, etc. German provided little value. Everyone over there speaks English anyway and many prefer it.

Aside from reading, watching German movies/tv and conversing with older people, my language skills were unnecessary.

I worked for an American company contracted by the US army so English was spoken at work.

[MikeS]

Becoming conversational - but far from fluid - in Bulgarian (been living here for a year and a half, but slacking off with language studies for too long until recently, learning only very basic words and phrases) is actually something I expect to become a potentially awkward stage.
Having conversations - particularly when it comes to dating and daygame - in a language I'm far from fluent in will undoubtedly make me feel at a severe disadvantage compared to native or fluent speakers, and outside of nightgame (too damn loud in clubs for my ears, so I'm inclined towards more of a caveman style there) conversation is what I consider one of my strong points.

When I reach the point of competence in Bulgarian - but well short of fluency - I suspect I'll still mostly try to speak English to girls, and then resort to Bulgarian when their English is very weak (in those cases I'm extremely limited in what I can do with verbal humour and teasing anyway), or otherwise just sprinkle it into the conversation.

[Kabal]

Pros of Speaking Her Language
- "DHV": Girls can be impressed by your foreign language skills, especially if you look clearly foreign (e.g. Asian guy speaking Spanish, white guy speaking Mandarin and getting the tones somewhat right)
- Comfort: Can build comfort more quickly, useful even for foreign girls in your home country (banged a smokeshow Chinese girl at a casual dorm pre-game after a 15 minute conversation a few years back this way)
- Expands the pool of girls you have access to
- Entertainment: Conversations that would feel banal/stale to you in English are more refreshing in a foreign language

Pros of Sticking with English
- Linguistic "Home Court" advantage: You can relax more, whereas the girl has to struggle with English to qualify herself to you
- Novel experience for the girl, talking in English with a native speaker
- Contrast: Demonstrates your uniqueness if you don't look overtly foreign


I find that most of the time there's no real decision to be made between the girls' language and English. Either I generally speak the girls' language much better than than they do English (e.g. Latin America) or I don't speak the local language and they speak some English (e.g. SEA).

The only time this becomes a real decision is when the girls' English levels are generally high, I speak the local language, and I don't look overly dissimilar from the locals (Taiwan, China, etc.). In which case, I will start off in English to demonstrate uniqueness, and then gradually switch over to Mandarin.

[Dantes]

Interesting thread and nice write up kabal.

In Brazil I had great experiences without knowing the language. Girls had to meet me on my terms in a way by conversing in my language. Even though I had success with girls from fluent English to almost none, not knowing Portuguese closed many doors.

In Colombia my increased Spanish skills have made for a more enjoyable experience. The better my Spanish , the better a connection I can develop. Paradoxically, I had more
bangs in Colombia two years ago with almost no Spanish. More to come on this in my trip report at the conclusion of my time here

[Tengen]

Just had to share

[MikeS]

(08-15-2014 08:45 PM)Tengen Wrote:  

Just had to share
...

Burn Notice .

Mr. Westen makes a good point about the issue you often risk running into when you decide to flaunt modest language skills - you proudly say a complete and (more or less) grammatically correct sentence in their language, and they, not without reason, assume you speak it well and say a whole bunch of shit back to you while you get a headache trying to pick out a few words you think you recognize.

Even in restaurants here in Bulgaria I often just open with English if it's anything much more advanced than ordering a beer - otherwise there's a good chance I'll need to ask говорите ли английски? a moment later when they start describing the specials or asking what I'd like with the main course, and I'll at best understand half of it.

[Switch]

The most interesting conversations with locals I've had have been in their language. When you're talking in English, you're going to get an internationalized version of what you're talking about, which can still be interesting, but different. Like if you want a cool perspective on the Chinese cultural revolution, you'll be hard pressed to find someone who speaks English who actually went through it.

[Orson]

My take on learning a foreign language? When you start to dream in it! - that's a definite mark of fluency. Because your brain has absorbed enough of the language to re-wire the contents.

(Okay - that's for completely dreaming in a foreign tongue! Still, baby steps are important, definite markers.)

[azulsombra]

I speak fluent Spanish but had heard things like nobody speaks or wants to speak english in Miami and Puerto rico. Naturally I wanted to test this out so I only ever opened with english and never encountered any problems or bad attitudes because of it.

Im curious to hear about peoples experience speaking or not speaking french in Montreal or France.

[el conquistador]

My advice would be: work your ass off to become fluent in the local language but be tactical and know when to use English.

I'll expand:

Knowing the local language will open up the country in terms of building a social circle and give you access to more girls. Without any level in the local language you will be restricting your social circle to ex-pats and people who want to use you for free 'english conversation lessons'. The potential female market that you have access to will be limited to English language groupies.

Even if you do get with a girl who can't speak English, she will initially like the novelty of going out with you but eventually the day-to-day realities will frustrate her and the attraction will wane.

With girls, being fluent in the target language is like being in shape. Yes, you can still get girls if you are chubby but you will get much better results if you are in shape.

In terms of living in the country here are some scenarios where you should use English:

-Negotiating. Start off in English and stick to it.

-Defending yourself verbally in any way. Remember, if the conversation is in English, you have the power. If the conversation is in their first language (French, Tagalog etc.) then they will have the upper hand. I was once working for a company in Italy and when I arrived at the company the boss (alpha bitch) was sweet as day but months later when my Italian was better and I was leaving the company she used to Italian to give me a verbal dressing down.

-Play up your gringo status in any area where you will get preferential treatment for being a American or European e.g. posh hotels and upper middle class areas. This applies mainly to countries that worship english speaking people - most of Latin America and South East Asia. I was once on the rooftop of the Ritz hotel in Santiago, Chile speaking with my friend from New York who is latino. A hotel employee came through the glass door and was about to tell us we shouldn't be out there but once he got he closer and heard that we were speaking in English he turned around and walked back in. No doubt if we were Chilean and talking in Spanish he would have told us to beat it.

Know your limitations: if a stand up comedian singles you out don't try to fire back and make him look stupid. Word play, humor and slang is very, very advanced and even most native speakers will not have the wit to hold their own. Pick your battles and don't get into any exchange in their language where they can make you look stupid.

The best persona to have is: exotic and different, but with enough linguistic ability in the local language to be able to defend yourself and not be played for a fool.

[rekruler]

When I lived in China, my mandarin was too weak to game girls with. I could speak somewhat, but I'd never understand their replies, especially in loud bar/club environments.

With that said, there was one interaction that blew my mind. I was in HK doing a visa run and met up with a forum member (who has like 2 posts here) for some night gaming in LKF. I approached these two girls, sitting outside a bar who turned out to be mainlanders on a brief visit. I started talking to them in English and they both dismissively blew me off with a "sorry no English" like I was a bum asking them for money or something.

More out of annoyance than anything I started spitting some basic Chinese that I knew like "Aha, na ni shi Zhongguo ren, dui bu dui? Na women keyi shuo zhongwen, hao ma?" and other really basic stuff like that. Man, that girl I said that to changed her attitude 180 degrees. We spent the next 10 or 15 minutes talking using Chinese and her iphone during which I started touching her on the neck shoulders etc, and soon enough she typed "take me home" into the phone. I was like goddamn, I need to study me some more Chinese haha.

[lavidaloca]

In my experience in Cuba it has been a big advantage. When I only spoke english (5 years ago) I tended to get a lot of gringo hunter type chicks and lower class chicks. As I've learned more spanish I wouldn't say on a strictly looks basis it has helped a ton but it has helped moreso in terms of the overall package I'm able to attract and allows me to be successful in more venues / places than previously. It also relationship wise allows me to form better connections with the girls I meet which in my opinion has led to increased intimacy levels.

It has had a profound effect moreso on being able to make good quality male friends. Which are without a doubt very valuable.

[Rang off the Pipe]

(08-16-2014 01:08 PM)azulsombra Wrote:  

I speak fluent Spanish but had heard things like nobody speaks or wants to speak english in Miami and Puerto rico. Naturally I wanted to test this out so I only ever opened with english and never encountered any problems or bad attitudes because of it.

Im curious to hear about peoples experience speaking or not speaking french in Montreal or France.

Some other members have been to Montréal more than I have, but not speaking French is a downside in terms of gaming francophones. For one thing, you're restricting yourself to English speakers, who are likely students and tourists; and secondly, enough francophones either won't want to speak English or don't speak it well enough in a few cases. The city is very bilingual but if you want to get the full benefits of Montréal...you'll need to be comfortable with French. That last statement is magnified much more in other parts of Québec, all the while you're missing out on some very attractive French-Canadian women. I'm learning French partially for that reason quite honestly.


I can't say anything about France since I've never been there.

[berserk]

(08-16-2014 04:59 PM)rekruler Wrote:  

When I lived in China, my mandarin was too weak to game girls with. I could speak somewhat, but I'd never understand their replies, especially in loud bar/club environments.

With that said, there was one interaction that blew my mind. I was in HK doing a visa run and met up with a forum member (who has like 2 posts here) for some night gaming in LKF. I approached these two girls, sitting outside a bar who turned out to be mainlanders on a brief visit. I started talking to them in English and they both dismissively blew me off with a "sorry no English" like I was a bum asking them for money or something.

More out of annoyance than anything I started spitting some basic Chinese that I knew like "Aha, na ni shi Zhongguo ren, dui bu dui? Na women keyi shuo zhongwen, hao ma?" and other really basic stuff like that. Man, that girl I said that to changed her attitude 180 degrees. We spent the next 10 or 15 minutes talking using Chinese and her iphone during which I started touching her on the neck shoulders etc, and soon enough she typed "take me home" into the phone. I was like goddamn, I need to study me some more Chinese haha.

Interesting, I've had similar experiences with Thai girls and Thais in general even with my limited Thai. Really dismissive attitudes until you speak some local lingo outside "whats your name" etc, then smiles all around. I'm guessing this is pretty universal in places that have a lot of foreigners on short stints, Hong Kong, Thailand, Paris wherever. Language skills are very useful there to set yourself apart from the tourist and typical expat crowd, where as in places with fewer tourists speaking only English is a novelty. My brief visit in Shenzhen, I found pretty much everyone and particularly girls to be really interested in talking with me in English, while in Thailand the general attitude towards those who only speak English is generally annoyance or outright dismissive hostility.

[rekruler]

^^Funny thing is, those girls that initially blew me off for speaking English were from Shenzhen. At any rate, the whole situation left me a bit bemused. That girl obviously wanted the D for straight out typing "take me home" into her phone before we had even made out. I don't think my broken incomprehensible Chinese seduced her all of a sudden, like, so it must have been looks based.

Both she and I were just visiting HK, we were not going to meet again ever, so if she found me good looking enough for a ONS, what does it matter to her whether I speak any Chinese? Just goes to show once again that females do not make decisions based off of any kind of premise-based logic.

[dodol]

For Indonesia, I don't think you get a huge bonus for learning the language. It doesn't seem like they are very proud of their language and would prefer to speak in English if they can. The majority of desirable girls can speak English. However, living anywhere without knowing the language is unpleasant and learning the local language can lead to more enjoyment even if it isn't going to increase your dating prospects commensurately with the difficulty of learning it.

[ZayanZaken]

Not too long after the Soviet Union crumbled, I started working for an American organization in an ex-Soviet republic. I have worked for this organization for several years, by the way, but I only needed English for that. I could not (and still cannot) speak either the local language or Russian, but I had little difficulty attracting girls. Some of them actually approached me with the excuse of practicing English. The one I settled with, we started off by speaking French with each other -- a language we both studied at high school. She is still with me, many years later, and I am still quite content not to speak her native language. Of course she speaks fluent English now. The only thing that I find imperfect in this situation is that for a couple of years it was impossible for us to fully understand each other's humor.

[El Chinito loco]

(08-16-2014 06:32 PM)berserk Wrote:  

My brief visit in Shenzhen, I found pretty much everyone and particularly girls to be really interested in talking with me in English, while in Thailand the general attitude towards those who only speak English is generally annoyance or outright dismissive hostility.

It's because Thais are very ethnocentric. The myth that Thais are "nice" people is one of the most misinterpreted reputations ever. They are nice from superficial outward appearances but they are in fact very sarcastic, egotistical, and condescending to foreigners. Most people don't get how their culture operates.

Of course, Thais can be friendly etc.. and gamed with standard game but the cultural component is a fairly important factor.

[Kieran]

My experience after learning to speak pretty good Thai was like night and day. Obviously it helped massively with cold approach, but also resulted in me practically getting numbers thrown at me as I went about my day to day business. It was like, go for a beer, leave with the dek cheer beer girl's number; go for a haircut, leave with a number; go and reschedule my flight at the airline, leave with a number, go to the pharmacy, arrange to meet the girl when I was better. It also became really easy to befriend staff at bars where I was a regular customer, which resulted in them introducing me to female customers - had a lot of ONS this way.

It also enabled me to get a bit of a social circle together. One of my best Thai friends speaks great English, but I don't think he would have started speaking to me if he hadn't heard me speaking Thai to a girl I was with. Having Thai friends really helped with women, and seemed to be mutually beneficial, in that women also seemed to be intrigued by the guys I was with. They'd often ask how we knew each other, and even if we were gay, and then when I'd start speaking Thai it was game on. We went through a lot of pairs of girls that way.

I'd strongly recommend taking the time to learn Thai if you live in LOS. You can get really good within 6 months using the system taught by Union, TLA, and some other language schools that also use the same system that I can't recall (it was a system originally used to teach Christian missionaries, but some of the teachers broke off and formed their own schools). The course at Chula is supposedly even better, but is very expensive in comparison.

[Suits]

In China, I find being able to speak the local language indispensable. If I hung out in certain areas, I'd definitely be able to get laid without ever speaking a word of Chinese, but it would limit my range and with any girls who don't speak English, I'd be an instant no-go.

Being able to speak conversational Chinese adds millions of women to my potential dating roster.

Still, they know that they can practice their English with me whenever they want (and most will want to try from time to time), so I get that value regardless.

But without the ability to communicate effectively purely in Chinese, I'd essentially have to limit myself to foreign chasers, which isn't a bad place to start, but I think I'd ultimately find myself frustrated with only being able to run street game in select areas of Beijing and would have to deal with getting blown off regularly with "sorry, no English."

[Brodiaga]

Generally speaking:

Latin America:
Brazil, especially smaller cities - sucks if you don't speak Portuguese
Colombia - also sucks without Spanish, but not as much
Mexico, DR - kind of sucks, but more girls speak English

Asia:
Thailand - can get by without Thai, but no access to the best girls. Still, even not the best ones are pretty damn good
Cambodia and Vietnam - pretty similar to Thailand, though my experience there is limited
Indonesia - in Bali and Jakarta, no need to speak Indonesian if you hang out with middle and upper class girls

Europe: a mixed bag, though I'm not a big fan of Europe when it comes to girls anyway.
Russia/FSU (I am a native Russian speaker) - you will miss out on many opportunities with girls, but there are quite a lot of English speakers in bigger cities

[Volk]

I can sustain a conversation in Hungarian but it's key not too hold it for more than half an hour, maybe they get the wrong idea about my fluency, I want to be on the level where I am a Colombian who speaks Hungarian (a good place to be), not another local. If I had decent game, I would bet I'd be doing 200x better.

[bucky]

(08-16-2014 05:09 AM)Orson Wrote:  

My take on learning a foreign language? When you start to dream in it! - that's a definite mark of fluency. Because your brain has absorbed enough of the language to re-wire the contents.

(Okay - that's for completely dreaming in a foreign tongue! Still, baby steps are important, definite markers.)

people always say this, but the only time foreign languages show up in my dreams is when spoken by someone who would speak that language in real life. e.g. if my former mother in law shows up in a dream, she speaks russian. my italian friends speak italian. and so on. i'm at an advanced conversational level in both of those languages. maybe this is just me.