[redbeard]

yes please share LeBeau. I've never thought about doing neck exercises but if there are some easy things I can do I might try.

[Wreckingball]

for those who have done the begginers linear progression of 5x5:
When did you change (at which weight) from 5x5 to 3x5 on Squat, military press and bench press?

[StrikeBack]

(08-08-2014 05:36 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Anyone doing relatively high reps around the 10 range?

I've been doing 5x5 for a while, but injury in squat and deadlift is holding me back. I'm trying 10x3 now with 90 second rests.

You can try 5/3/1 with Boring But Big.

i.e working up to one major 5/3/1 set (a 5+, 3+ or 1+)

then dropping own to do 5x10 at a lighter weight (start at about 50% of your max).

I used that very successfully to return from a hip injury that affected my squat and deadlift. Gave me just enough heavy lifting to maintain some strength, with plenty of volume for practicing the groove. Ended up hitting lifetime PBs for reps in both lifts as well.

I only did this for squat (low bar) and bench btw. With deadlifts, I only did the 5/3/1 set, and did not do 5x10. I added an extra squat session instead with high bar.

[weambulance]

(08-08-2014 08:15 PM)Wreckingball Wrote:  

for those who have done the begginers linear progression of 5x5:
When did you change (at which weight) from 5x5 to 3x5 on Squat, military press and bench press?

I switched to 3x5 when I was getting something like 5, 5, 5, 4, 3 reps and bumped the weights 10 pounds for my first workout doing 3x5. Worked fine for me. I don't think the actual weight matters much, it's going to vary for everyone.

IIRC I was at ~215 lb squat (ass to grass), ~125 lb overhead press, and around 205 lb bench when I switched to 3x5. ~330 lb deadlift if you're interested. I was also lifting every day alternating A/B days, so my experience probably isn't that relevant.

[OBJ Snakebite]

For those of you doing Rippettoe's 3x5 workout--how long to you rest between sets?

[LeBeau]

(08-08-2014 07:55 PM)redbeard Wrote:  

yes please share LeBeau. I've never thought about doing neck exercises but if there are some easy things I can do I might try.

For anyone else who requested head and neck training info, I just posted a data sheet here:

http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-38986.html

[RexImperator]

(08-08-2014 10:00 PM)OBJ Snakebite Wrote:  

For those of you doing Rippettoe's 3x5 workout--how long to you rest between sets?

For squats, starting out - up to 5 minutes. As it gets heavier that goes up to 6 to 7.

On the presses, you can have a shorter rest.

[TheMan]

Steroids.

Given the subject of the thread, this topic was to be broached eventually, so may as well start it off early.

I am not encouraging or denouncing steroid usage, and I do not and have not–to date–use them myself.

However, I have been lifting since I was 16 (32 now) and have been workout with a personal trainer for the past year, and the most useful thing that I've learned in that time, is to make informed judgements and decisions before "jumping in with both feet". ...(fucking bro-science. AMIRITE?! )


Anyway, Here is an informative study that I came across on steroid usage.

To summarize.

This 10 week study took a group of 43 men of normal body weight between the ages of 19 and 40 who all had some degree of weight training experience. These men were then split up into 4 different groups:

The first group did NOT do any form of exercise, and did NOT receive any form of steroids or drugs. (No exercise, natural group.)
The second group did NOT do any form of exercise, but they received weekly injections of 600 mg of testosterone enanthate. (No exercise, steroid use group.)
The third group DID exercise, but they did NOT receive any form of steroids or drugs. (Exercise, natural group.)
The fourth group DID exercise, and they also received weekly injections of 600 mg of testosterone enanthate. (Exercise, steroid use group.)

All of their diets (calorie intake, protein intake, nutrient intake, etc.) were standardized according to each person’s body weight, recorded, verified and adjusted when needed. The 2 groups who WERE weight training (groups 3 and 4) followed the same supervised workouts each week.

Meaning, with the exception of the fact that some groups were or were not weight training, and some were or were not using drugs… everything else (diet and training) was equal and even.


Here is what they found...

No exercise, natural group: experienced no significant changes. ...duh
No exercise, steroid use group: was able to build about 7 pounds of muscle. ...7 pounds of muscle?!?!
Exercise, natural group: was able to build about 4 pounds of muscle.
Exercise, steroid use group: was able to build about 13 pounds of muscle.

What does this mean?
Well.. I can not and would not presume to advise you personally, so hopefully you can think for yourselves. It also never hurts to seek out the advice of some reputable person(s) who have made their career in this field and WHO HAVE ACHIEVED WHAT YOU WANT TO ACHIEVE.

What I will be doing is holding off on steroid use and just pushing myself and my workouts harder until I reach a real plateau *see fuckarounditis–IMHO the 4 pounds of muscle over 10 weeks, that was gained by the "Exercise, natural group" in the study is really nothing to scoff at –or until I get older and start to see a marked decline on my energy and returns in the gym.


TM

[Ensam]

Steroids is such general a term it's meaningless. MikeCF has probably the least BS take on the issue. Poke around here and Danger & Play. Personally I think it's going to be at least a decade before we really know what the long term effects of the various hormone replacement therapies and other anti-aging drugs are. In the mean time I'm happy to sit tight and let other people be the guinea pigs.

[redbeard]

I take the same stance. I'm still early twenties. But by the time I'm in my late thirties - I will definitely be looking into TRT.

[Ensam]

How many compound lifts do you guys train at one time?

I've been doing the powerlifting ones (squat/deadlift/bench) for the past few years but recently added back in overhead press and front squats. Thinking about starting to do cleans again and eventually work snatches and overhead squats back into the rotation. My concern is that it might be too much and I'd be better off focusing on 2 or 3 lifts at a time.

[Foolsgo1d]

Any guys here ever considered a once a week session ona sunbed to gradually build up some light tan?

Thanks to the sun burning my arms and neck I now resemble a builder and I dislike the look. Anyone tried this?

[Wreckingball]

(08-10-2014 03:45 PM)Ensam Wrote:  

How many compound lifts do you guys train at one time?

I've been doing the powerlifting ones (squat/deadlift/bench) for the past few years but recently added back in overhead press and front squats. Thinking about starting to do cleans again and eventually work snatches and overhead squats back into the rotation. My concern is that it might be too much and I'd be better off focusing on 2 or 3 lifts at a time.

I do the 5x5 (stronglifts) at home.
Squat, bench, bentover row
Squat, Military press, Deadlift

i can't do cleans or snatches properly even with empty bar

[Ensam]

(08-10-2014 04:01 PM)Wreckingball Wrote:  

(08-10-2014 03:45 PM)Ensam Wrote:  

How many compound lifts do you guys train at one time?

I've been doing the powerlifting ones (squat/deadlift/bench) for the past few years but recently added back in overhead press and front squats. Thinking about starting to do cleans again and eventually work snatches and overhead squats back into the rotation. My concern is that it might be too much and I'd be better off focusing on 2 or 3 lifts at a time.

I do the 5x5 (stronglifts) at home.
Squat, bench, bentover row
Squat, Military press, Deadlift

i can't do cleans or snatches properly even with empty bar

It's difficult to go straight to cleans and snatches if you've never done them before. Start by doing clean pulls and power cleans off a box. Then add in front squats to work on your stability (if your goal is to catch the bar in a low squat, otherwise just focus on the power cleans). For snatches you can do snatch pulls and overhead squats with a snatch grip. If you really want to learn how to do it properly hire a coach for 6-8 weeks. Then check in with them on your form every 6 weeks or so.

[redbeard]

what's a good way to find a coach like you've described above? how do you check credentials? I've wanted to get a form coach for a while but don't know where to look.

[Ensam]

Look at the results from a recent regional powerlifting or olympic weightlifting competition see if any of the top placing competitors trained at a gym near you and then go to that gym and see what kind of programs they offer. The rates are actually surprisingly reasonable for good coaches - often times less than a personal trainer. I'm currently paying $100/month for twice a week semi-private lifting sessions. The gym I learned at had a higher ranked coach and they charged $130/month for unlimited training.

If you can't find a local guy there are coaches who will work with you via video. You tape your lifting sessions and then they'll offer feedback. I'd hesitate to go this route if you're a total newbie. I think it's only effective if you basically know what's up and just need some tweaks.

[weambulance]

(08-10-2014 03:45 PM)Ensam Wrote:  

How many compound lifts do you guys train at one time?

I've been doing the powerlifting ones (squat/deadlift/bench) for the past few years but recently added back in overhead press and front squats. Thinking about starting to do cleans again and eventually work snatches and overhead squats back into the rotation. My concern is that it might be too much and I'd be better off focusing on 2 or 3 lifts at a time.

A day: Squats, bench, deadlifts, dips

B day: Squats, overhead press, bent over row, pullups

I sometimes do power cleans or power clean and press, but I really need to work on my form before I can use any serious weight. I'm also going to start doing front squats at least half of the time. I'll probably do heavy front squats on B days, and lighter back squats primarily as a warmup for deadlifts on A days.

Right now I'm taking a day off between workouts but I'm thinking about doing stuff like box jumps, sprints, agility exercises, etc on those "off" days. I'm strong, but I have lost a lot of my athleticism over the last few years due to injuries and I'd rather be pretty strong but fast and explosive than extremely strong and not athletic otherwise.

[TheMan]

(08-10-2014 04:43 PM)redbeard Wrote:  

what's a good way to find a coach like you've described above? how do you check credentials? I've wanted to get a form coach for a while but don't know where to look.

Ensam has some spot on advice on this. I would only add to also look at physique competitions, in the instance that you're like me and form over function (strength) is your goal.


This also works in reverse. Pound the pavement go to your locals and meet their training staff, speak with them and ask lots of questions. Then go look them up afterwards. If you like, then decide to commit to them. (this is how I found my trainer, who is competing here

[kbell]

I may eventually use a trap bar for deadlifts, due to the scraping I get on my legs from proper form. I do like using straps for protecting my hands and reducing the amount of grip I need. I need my hands to be not super calloused for work, and they don't recover as fast as they used to. I can also focus more on my back form which I believe is where you tend to injure yourself in a deadlift.

I took today off from workout. I think days off from consistent working out tends to help with recovery as well. Just did a lot of walking and a fast until 12 today.

[StrikeBack]

I have almost no callouses (just small bumps here & there) from deadlifting thanks to the hook grip.

As for the scraping, get some cheap smooth compression pants. I have a $20 pair I wear for deadlifting in training. In competitions, I put baby powder on my thighs.

[TheFinalEpic]

Although I dislike Crossfit, for the impact it's had on Olympic Weightlifting is great, and there are more qualified coaches than even a few years back now. I wouldn't advise going to a cross fit gym for the purpose of learning the Snatch and Clean and Jerk, but find the lifters at the gym that perform the lifts with excellent form. They will reference you to a solid coach. You cannot learn those lifts on your own, they are so technical and trying to learn by yourself will be counterproductive, especially if you have to break bad habits later.

Get eyes on right off the bat.

[Kieran]

(08-10-2014 10:08 PM)kbell Wrote:  

I may eventually use a trap bar for deadlifts, due to the scraping I get on my legs from proper form. I do like using straps for protecting my hands and reducing the amount of grip I need. I need my hands to be not super calloused for work, and they don't recover as fast as they used to. I can also focus more on my back form which I believe is where you tend to injure yourself in a deadlift.

I took today off from workout. I think days off from consistent working out tends to help with recovery as well. Just did a lot of walking and a fast until 12 today.

The trap bar really changes the movement and brings the quads into it more, and reduces the involvement of the upper and lower back.

[kbell]

I was afraid it might. But It looked like it might be a nice comprise when I got older.

Is hook grip without the thumb? ON heavier weights I would use one over and one under, I think it was called supinated on one hand.

[Ensam]

Hook grip is the fingers wrapped over the first knuckle of the thumb. Taping the thumb can help on the heavier weights. I'm a bit OCD about asymmetry so I avoid the alternated grip like the plague.

[Mongo]

(08-11-2014 06:51 AM)Kieran Wrote:  

The trap bar really changes the movement and brings the quads into it more, and reduces the involvement of the upper and lower back.

Actually it just changes the stimulation but the upper back is heavily involved, mainly in a stabilization role. You have to use your back muscles to maintain tension and stabilize your entire torso. If you ever do farmer's carries with a trap bar, the first two muscle groups to fatigue will be your grip and upper back, usually in that order.