[Roosh]

Some young men today are realizing that the "modern" world is not better than what their parents or grandparents have lived. The guy who made this video may not be full red pill, but he has a sense that something is wrong with how we live today.

[Vicious]

Look at the still at 1:00 in the video.

That's the Marlboro Man right there. Effortlessly in command.

[Atlantic]

One of my granddads ran guns for the IRA, travelled two days by bike every year to the All Ireland Football championship suited down and single handily reclaimed swamp land to build a huge farm to raise his family on. The story which I remember most about my other granddad is that he built a coffin by himself to bury his first son who died after a few weeks.

Both men had huge amounts of character and where complete Alphas.

I wonder if my grandchildren will look back amazed that I cooked my own meals, read books and went to the gym.

[The Beast1]

Trust me, it's generational. There will be a massive pushback for an attitude of traditional values and work ethic. The boomers will lay in the bed they made.

[heavy]

Love the honest contrast between his grandfather's possessions and his mom's possessions

[Laurifer]

One thing that is fortunate in my immediate family is strong nostalgia and the preservation of our past. My dad has been in conflict with my grandfather for years over keeping the family farm, which has been in the family since the 1890's. My ancestors came from Sweden and cleared probably close to 200 acres of forest by axe and beast of burden to build it.

Just today I had a nostalgic moment holding my great grandfathers single barrel shot gun he used to shoot a bear that was on the farm many decades ago. The bear's skin is still hanging in the garage today.

[DavidMI]

As I look back and see what my dad (and my childhood friends' dads) gave to us - both the gift of life, and then non-stop labor to support us - I'm astounded. I remember how much joy my dad would take in seeing me and my brothers play, and how proud he was when he'd take us on summer trips.

So, as that guy in the video makes that observation in the final portion about the men giving to their families, I totally relate.

A couple of weeks ago, I went to the Motor City Comic Convention (Michigan's biggest annual comic convention) and I was embarrassed to see almost no children anymore, but just a bunch of aging dudes in their late twenties and thirties (like me) and even older! There were, of course, also tons of attention whore women dressed in "cosplay" outfits of cartoon characters, showing their nasty, tattooed, wrinkling skin.

We live for Facebook, getting drunk while ogling LeBron James, and transient pop culture novelty. Our moms and dads lived for us.

I don't know why men and women have lost the desire to have children, and to give to them, and live through them. There's been a seismic shift, from normal human behavior to almost universal narcissism.

[runsonmagic]

What a great short film.

[AnonymousBosch]

(06-03-2014 04:30 PM)DavidMI Wrote:  

I don't know why men and women have lost the desire to have children, and to give to them, and live through them. There's been a seismic shift, from normal human behavior to almost universal narcissism.

I remember being a kid and wishing I could become an adult already so I could talk about philosophy, history, psychology and art instead of my peers always going on about bloody superheroes; what the cool kids are doing; and who is being bullied by whom.

In that respect, adulthood is pretty fucking disappointing.

[el mechanico]

(06-03-2014 04:54 PM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  

(06-03-2014 04:30 PM)DavidMI Wrote:  

I don't know why men and women have lost the desire to have children, and to give to them, and live through them. There's been a seismic shift, from normal human behavior to almost universal narcissism.

I remember being a kid and wishing I could become an adult already so I could talk about philosophy, history, psychology and art instead of my peers always going on about bloody superheroes; what the cool kids are doing; and who is being bullied by whom.

In that respect, adulthood is pretty fucking disappointing.

In my world it's not normal for kids or adults to talk about those things.

I liked the video but don't get why he sold his bike to his mom. What did he learn?

[Menace]

^^ Agree...he learned nothing. This was just some kind of nostalgia porn, when I think about it.

He states full out that his grandfather was concerned with giving something and he was concerned with having something...so obviously the thing to do is sell the motorcycle to your mom for a profit???

Wouldn't the lesson be to give the motorcycle to your mom? Or to someone else in the family? I also find the idea of selling something to my parents weird.

[Vaun]

He wasn't exposed to men like this growing up. WWII gen guys came up in the depression, then went to war, then college, then worked, and built some impressive shit out of pure survival. Its too bad he didn't see this first hand, but maybe he will learn something.

[The Lizard of Oz]

I hated this video. And I believe that no one would be more disgusted by it than this weak-faced dude's grandfather.

He was an engineer, which means that he devoted his life to making progress. Meanwhile, his ingrate grandson dismisses the very progress for which men like his grandfather slaved in favor of the sentimental cant idea of "authenticity" and the cowardly delusion that old things are "real" while new things are "fake".

Guess what buddy -- the old things that you fetishize as somehow magically "authentic" were new once, and someone had to design them and make them be. And a man's place in life is not to spew cant about the "authentic" but to inhabit the actual world in which he lives and continue to make progress while enjoying the hell out of his life. That is the real lesson of our grandfathers.

[Vaun]

(06-03-2014 06:52 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

He was an engineer, which means that he devoted his life to making progress. Meanwhile, his ingrate grandson dismisses the very progress for which men like his grandfather slaved in favor of the sentimental cant idea of "authenticity" and the cowardly delusion that old things are "real" while new things are "fake".

I found the 'authentic' comparison to craft beer, beards and hipster hair pomade particularly repugnant.

[Sawyer]

I thought getting the motorcycle was a reasonably authentic act. It's at least as much something you do as something you own. Not unlike a sailboat. But then he sold it.

So the lesson must be don't do anything authentic if your mommy doesn't like it.

Did I miss something or is this a kid without a Dad around?

That's what this generation is mostly missing that the prior generations had -- dads.

[All or Nothing]

(06-03-2014 06:52 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

I hated this video. And I believe that no one would be more disgusted by it than this weak-faced dude's grandfather.

He was an engineer, which means that he devoted his life to making progress. Meanwhile, his ingrate grandson dismisses the very progress for which men like his grandfather slaved in favor of the sentimental cant idea of "authenticity" and the cowardly delusion that old things are "real" while new things are "fake".

Guess what buddy -- the old things that you fetishize as somehow magically "authentic" were new once, and someone had to design them and make them be. And a man's place in life is not to spew cant about the "authentic" but to inhabit the actual world in which he lives and continue to make progress while enjoying the hell out of his life. That is the real lesson of our grandfathers.

Why are you hating on a guy who is exploring ideas?

This guy is just trying to find a system of values and a connection to a community. Both of which are things that millennial are severely lacking.

I am a millennial too and I have been thinking about the exact same things as this guy.

If I don't immediately drop every hedonistic desire and become a born again Christian who goes off to fight in the Afghanistan war, are you going to talk shit about me too?

No lie, I am actually going to enter the engineering world. I will most likely end up working in the energy sector and will play a part in energy being provided to people's houses for decades to come. Even if that doesn't come to fruition, I will still be productive throughout most of my life just like my father and grandfather.

If you are going to talk smack about this guy for not being an engineer, what are you doing to be productive?

[The Lizard of Oz]

All or Nothing, the guy is not obliged to be an engineer or anything else. "Being productive" is fine but that isn't really the point -- note that I placed an equally great emphasis on "while enjoying the hell out of his life".

The real problem with this dude is that he is an ingrate -- he lives in an astounding world that was made possible thanks to the work and ingenuity of people like his grandfather, and instead of appreciating this world for what it is, he turns away from it, glibly and idiotically dismissing it as "fake", while fetishizing the world of his grandfather as if it was somehow magically more "real" or "authentic" and therefore better.

This kind of sentimentalizing of the past entirely misses the point -- it particularly misses the point of why some of his grandfather's possessions have the charm that they have. It's precisely because they are the product of a life lived without fear and timidity that these objects, over years of humble and practical use and enjoyment, acquire the aura that can draw someone in a few generations later. The same can happen to the things of today -- to the dude's iphone or laptop or whatever new device he will have that is not invented yet -- if he is willing to live alongside them in the same way as his grandfather lived alongside his own.

In other words, by turning away with cowardice and ingratitude from the world as it is, and looking to the past for some imagined special "authenticity" this dude draws exactly the wrong lesson from his grandfather's excellence, and squanders the chance to live an excellent life of his own (which in no way presupposes that he needs to follow the same profession or life path).

EDIT: also I f'ing hate this dude's faggot voice and way of talking. And the cant music used in the video.

[Dr. Howard]

Sawyer was the only other person who picked up on this.

He mentions his grandfathers.
He mentions his mom.
No mention of his Dad.

This is likely why he sold his motorcycle to his mom, his Dad would have run interference. Now, as much as it makes for a good movie with tactile things, and as dumb as it may seem while you are alive I highly suggest writing a memoir if you have kids. As can be seen from this movie its not the kids that value it as much but the grand kids...grandparents write their own legacy if they choose to and can become faultless role models. My family has a virtual private museum of relics from 5 generations of family but none of those are as good as the biographies or auto biographies, seconded by the journals they kept and third by the stacks of preserved letters. The letters seem more 'real' but it is more and more difficult to read the handwriting as you go up a generation....a handwritten letter, with yellow paper, brown ink, uncommon words and insane cursive from the 1870s, it takes me forever to get through two pages.

[AnonymousBosch]

(06-03-2014 07:19 PM)All or Nothing Wrote:  

Why are you hating on a guy who is exploring ideas?

This guy is just trying to find a system of values and a connection to a community. Both of which are things that millennial are severely lacking.

There's a lot of research into this.

Nostalgia is a coping function of lonely people, because it creates the sense of social support to counteract the sensation of loneliness, helping the mind becomes more resilient to it.

Only my interpretation from here, so feel free to challenge me if you don't agree:

Hipsters strike me as using it differently. I'm not talking about nostalgia for your high school years, or watching Nickelodeon or whatever, that's healthy, but I mean Affected Nostaliga.

Hipsters try to create nostalgia for times they never experienced, and objects and props that were never part of their lives, which is why it strikes people as pretentious affection, because they're chasing an Idealised Phantom of Nostalgia. They're pretending to feel.

They're using pipes and beards and vinyl records and manual typewriters and instagram filters to create a false persona that creates a sense of community with others: a group of people who remember older, simpler times, when life was easier and people were nicer and everything was handcrafted. (Notice the focus on only the positives of the time).

Since they have no real recollection of these events, their only frame of reference is the older, simpler times that advertising uses to create warm fuzzies. They didn't live through their childhood being recorded by Super 8, but lived through Super 8 being used in commercial after commercial or in multiple movie sequences to denote the warmth and innocence of childhood.

They've used someone else's idea of nostalgia to form their own construct of what it is, which is why I call what they're chasing a Phantom; Instagram makes every happy snap look like a Jack Daniels commercial; and I tend to dismiss a lot of Pitchfork-approved music as 'Smithsonian Fauxways' or 'New New New New Wave', with a shrug.

Anyway, I assume Hipsters are lonely because they don't know how to genuinely-connect with one another, since they are socially-awkward; desperately-uncomfortable with interpersonal contact; and they fear the possibility of not being liked by other people. This is where ironic distance comes in: safer to have the plausible-deniability of ironic affectation than to risk rejection for a genuine liking for something.

See the wall they're deliberately-building up between each other which makes their fear come true? People can't like them, because they don't know who they really are. If they didn't create a false narcissistic construct to relate to others to begin with, they might actually connect, and then all the False Nostalgia wouldn't be needed and instantly-disappear.

I expect the next generation to not show this desire - I think they'll be out there genuinely-experiencing life and creating real memories.

I think Reactionaries are somewhat guilty of this form of nostalgia, due to a sense of dislocation from and disgust with modern culture and the values it espouses, (myself included).

[Vaun]

(06-03-2014 08:08 PM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  

(06-03-2014 07:19 PM)All or Nothing Wrote:  

Why are you hating on a guy who is exploring ideas?

This guy is just trying to find a system of values and a connection to a community. Both of which are things that millennial are severely lacking.

There's a lot of research into this.

Nostalgia is a coping function of lonely people, because it creates the sense of social support to counteract the sensation of loneliness, helping the mind becomes more resilient to it.

Only my interpretation from here, so feel free to challenge me if you don't agree:

Hipsters strike me as using it differently. I'm not talking about nostalgia for your high school years, or watching Nickelodeon or whatever, that's healthy, but I mean Affected Nostaliga.

As force fed by social media, creating a stunted reality not entirely focused on the here and now. There is a point to cross when it goes from just being trendy, dressing and acting cool, to actually believing your own bullshit. Thats where I think we have ended up.

[All or Nothing]

(06-03-2014 07:36 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

This kind of sentimentalizing of the past entirely misses the point -- it particularly misses the point of why some of his grandfather's possessions have the charm that they have. It's precisely because they are the product of a life lived without fear and timidity that these objects, over years of humble and practical use and enjoyment, acquire the aura that can draw someone in a few generations later. The same can happen to the things of today -- to the dude's iphone or laptop or whatever new device he will have that is not invented yet -- if he is willing to live alongside them in the same way as his grandfather lived alongside his own.

In what way is he an ingrate?

Just because someone is turning away from the worship of modern technology does not mean that they are ungrateful.

Also, modern technology has little value beyond its ability to connect one person to 100,000's of other people on a level that has never existed before now.

Even then, those connections are not real.

There are studies that have been performed on Facebook usage. It has shown that over time people become dissatisfied with it due to a decreasing dopamine release from repeated use. This is a sign that using Facebook and the internet does not create truly satisfying experiences and are a poor way to experience life.

I can understand its value, but the "fake" world of the internet is nothing to appreciate because it does lead to deep and memorable human experience. It is quite literally staring at a computer screen and clicking away.

Also, he did not miss the point. Did you miss the part where he bought a motorcycle?

Buying the motorcycle and riding it by the countryside was his first attempt at creating a satisfying life similar to that of his grandfathers. Hopefully it was the first of many.

I will admit he missed the point about giving when he sold his motorcycle to his mom, but at the same time he has now become more aware.

Awareness is the first step to change. Even though he has not fully absorbed the values that his grandfathers lived by, at least he is now aware of what they were rather than living on in complete ignorance of his own culture and values.

(06-03-2014 08:08 PM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  

Anyway, I assume Hipsters are lonely because they don't know how to genuinely-connect with one another, since they are socially-awkward; desperately-uncomfortable with interpersonal contact; and they fear the possibility of not being liked by other people. This is where ironic distance comes in: safer to have the plausible-deniability of ironic affectation than to risk rejection for a genuine liking for something.

See the wall they're deliberately-building up between each other which makes their fear come true? People can't like them, because they don't know who they really are. If they didn't create a false narcissistic construct to relate to others to begin with, they might actually connect, and then all the False Nostalgia wouldn't be needed and instantly-disappear.

I expect the next generation to not show this desire - I think they'll be out there genuinely-experiencing life and creating real memories.

I would say that what you have said is correct, but there is more nuance to it.

As far as it goes in urban society in Southwest and West-coast U.S., it is a culture-less and godless society with a complete lack of community for the millennials.

Hipsterism is a movement away from this.

I am not a hipster, but I am exposed to them on a regular basis and am friends with a few of them.

Hipsters are moving away from a lack of culture by supporting local art and music.

Hipsters are moving away from a lack of community by supporting local farmers and businesses rather than kowtowing to corporations.

Hipsters are moving away corporations as their current god because they are realizing that the only thing that they can get out of worshiping large corporations are material things and that all the corporations want from them is money. Personally, I believe that a return to Christianity is the answer to this, but it remains to be seen if millennials will return to some form of organized religion.

I do think that you are on-point when it comes to social awkwardness. A lot of the awkwardness comes out of technology largely replacing normal human communication among the millennials. This has prevented a significant amount of them from becoming socially normal.

A lot of the hipsters have found the solution to this as acting in an arrogant way. Using arrogance as a cloak to disguise social awkwardness is the path of least resistance and I can understand why most choose that over admitting that they have a real problem that they need to consciously work on to resolve.

[The Lizard of Oz]

All or Nothing, what you wrote above is a post on the Internet. Presumably it isn't "real"? And neither is anything else on this forum?

"It is quite literally staring at a computer screen and clicking away"

I could say of talking to someone:

"It is quite literally vibrating your vocal chords to create sound waves"

Why is one thing "real" and not the other? Except through some magic that declares it so?

The Internet and its various manifestations is the greatest and most miraculous creation of mankind so far. Not only does Google give you a million Libraries of Alexandria on the palm of your hand; not only does Amazon give you instant access to a marketplace that dwarfs all the wonder of the markets of the Orient and the Occident put together; but the possibilities of human connection, humor, camaraderie, fellowship, interest are increased a thousand thousand fold by it -- and there is no better evidence for it than the magic of a forum such as this one.

Forget about goofy "studies" and look at what is in front of your eyes. Think how endlessly the world -- your world -- is enriched by what you learned on this forum, the connections you made through it, the laughs you had, the facts you learned. Those are not "real"?

The ability of a virtually retarded poor woman somewhere to look up a video on youtube which in 5 minutes thoroughly explains to her how to fix her dishwasher is not "real"?

I can go on and on and on, I hope you get the point.

To dismiss and defame this wondrous creation is indeed the very height of ingratitude. Don't commit such an infamy -- you are better than that.

[kosko]

(06-03-2014 06:32 PM)Menace Wrote:  

^^ Agree...he learned nothing. This was just some kind of nostalgia porn, when I think about it.

He states full out that his grandfather was concerned with giving something and he was concerned with having something...so obviously the thing to do is sell the motorcycle to your mom for a profit???

Wouldn't the lesson be to give the motorcycle to your mom? Or to someone else in the family? I also find the idea of selling something to my parents weird.

Or to ride it, gain experiences, maybe ride it to another State or some shit, go on an adventure with a hot broad or some shit, do something. Give it your son or a friend. That would of been something better.

At the end him gaining a experience from something he had passion for and passing that along. That was the essence of what he was going for but he didn't know how to execute it in full.

He is on the right track but might be to self-focused in his mirror of self and narcissism that it will take him a while to get at the true goal he was so close too cracking.

For me I get all of this, the idea to build something of yourself, build a bounty, take what is yours, and give it along... but I have trouble figuring out my path to get there.

[Intl_Rasta]

(06-03-2014 08:08 PM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  

Hipsters strike me as using it differently. I'm not talking about nostalgia for your high school years, or watching Nickelodeon or whatever, that's healthy, but I mean Affected Nostaliga.

Hipsters try to create nostalgia for times they never experienced, and objects and props that were never part of their lives, which is why it strikes people as pretentious affection, because they're chasing an Idealised Phantom of Nostalgia. They're pretending to feel.

100% Agree... Plain and Simple there playing dress up, So was that guy in the video. This is shit woman do they see some other woman and say i am going to BE HER tomorrow. Then they go craft a outfit that makes them look like lady gaga, Sophia Loren,or Kate Moss(Heroin chic).

This is just more mental-transvestism by these men displaying bitch like qualities by playing dress-up. Its Village people syndrome we should call it, VPS for short.

[thirty-six]

That was a selfie in video form.