[Orion]

The last of rebel troops completely withdrew from the city. UN observers are already in, screening the city. Civilians already returned to see the state of their properties. Mayor promised that city will be reconstructed, and that civilians will be able to return in shortest time possible.However, they have to sweep entire city for explosives.

City has long been dubbed "capital of the revolution", but now it's entirely in hands of government, and UN is present to witness return to normal civilian life.

Dear lord...

[Quintus Curtius]

Price of power, brother.

The US backed rebels (basically foreign radical Islamist and other dregs) are losing. America, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Israel, and England and France got checkmated here by Putin, Asad, and Iran.

The Turkish border is still not under control. Turkey is furious that it has failed and is now backing the worst elements of the "rebels".

The US and Israel are happy to Syria destroyed, and could care less about what is happening. A real tragedy here.

But Asad has shown surprising toughness and tenacity. To keep your throne, you need a will of iron.

[Orion]

I was actually surprised by the fact that Assad didn't collapse. He comes from a Shia minority. In order to remain in power, he really had to have some support from Sunni Muslims as well. He did have support of Christians. So, it seems that secular spirit in Syria exists after all, although islamists are undoubtedly powerful. His allies were obviously capable and direct with their support.

Role of Iran should by no means be underestimated. Iran is fighting for preservation of Shiism in Levant area, for otherwise Shia muslims would be entirely limited to Iran area. Also, Iran led a brutal war decades ago with similar amount of devastation and casualties, if not bigger. They probably knew how to supply government and where to help. Involvement of experienced Hezbollah (pushed by Iran) helped as well.

However, Aleppo situation is a mess. Rebels are pouring across Turkish border where they are trained. Government is meeting Turkish air strikes when it tries to seal the border. Turkey always uses false accusations in order to strike targets at ground. So in order so seal borders and create some buffer area with Turkey, where they will be able to control influx of rebels will be very very difficult. It could only be possible by using same guerrilla methods that rebels use.

It is possible that Aleppo remains contested for long time. However, city is already ravaged. Together with UNESCO heritage sites and other millennia old sanctuaries and monuments.

[Foolsgo1d]

When people claim the British had a willing interest in the destruction of Assad I get annoyed. Our political power had a vested interest in some form, not the British public and for the most part no real movement to bomb Syria was held in our corridors of power but I am guessing that has more to do with waiting for the USA to start the ball rolling.

I remember the news prior to the drums of war calling for Assad's head, it was a complete white-wash of propaganda to stir up hate for him and support the rebels who were IMO coined into the same category as the rebels in Star Wars.

My exposure to a different site helped me to find out who these rebels were, a bunch of cut throat power-hungry Islamists who are out to murder as many people as they can get their hands on.

None of these atrocities were given air time in the west, such a pathetic one-sided story which still persists in Ukraine today.

I hope Assad crushes these Jihad warriors for the destruction, murder and pain they have caused.

[Judge Terror]

(05-12-2014 11:04 AM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  

But Asad has shown surprising toughness and tenacity. To keep your throne, you need a will of iron.

Kind of like Saddam, Assad got street cred.

[porscheguy]

I know the US, Israel and Britain support the radical religious extremists in Syria and for the life of me, I can't figure out why.

[Wadsworth]

(05-12-2014 11:04 AM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  

Price of power, brother.

The US backed rebels (basically foreign radical Islamist and other dregs) are losing. America, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Israel, and England and France got checkmated here by Putin, Asad, and Iran.

The Turkish border is still not under control. Turkey is furious that it has failed and is now backing the worst elements of the "rebels".

The US and Israel are happy to Syria destroyed, and could care less about what is happening. A real tragedy here.

But Asad has shown surprising toughness and tenacity. To keep your throne, you need a will of iron.

Good insight. Western foreign policy does seem increasingly a proxy cold war wherein the proxies are the ones who suffer the casualties.

[Thomas the Rhymer]

(05-12-2014 10:59 PM)Wadsworth Wrote:  

(05-12-2014 11:04 AM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  

Price of power, brother.

The US backed rebels (basically foreign radical Islamist and other dregs) are losing. America, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Israel, and England and France got checkmated here by Putin, Asad, and Iran.

The Turkish border is still not under control. Turkey is furious that it has failed and is now backing the worst elements of the "rebels".

The US and Israel are happy to Syria destroyed, and could care less about what is happening. A real tragedy here.

But Asad has shown surprising toughness and tenacity. To keep your throne, you need a will of iron.

Good insight. Western foreign policy was always a proxy cold war wherein the proxies are the ones who suffer the casualties.

Fixed it for you.

[Quintus Curtius]

(05-12-2014 09:14 PM)porscheguy Wrote:  

I know the US, Israel and Britain support the radical religious extremists in Syria and for the life of me, I can't figure out why.

Well, I can explain why the US, Britain, and Israel support the radical Islamist lunatics. Seems counter-intuitive, doesn't it?

Well, think again. You need to start thinking on another level, like the intelligence agencies do. This is all about power politics. There are several parallel threads of interest going on here:

Thread 1: Israel

Israel controls US foreign policy in the region, more or less, since the late 1980s. The goal of this policy is to ensure that no neighbor (or combination of neighbors) of Israel gets enough power to project power in the region. Hence, Israeli policy is all about destabilizing every Arab country in the region.

It is in Israel's interest to see chaos and weakness in Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, and Egypt. They even love to see chaos in Sudan.

Turkey is a client state of the US and Israel. The followed orders like the good little lapdogs they are. And it got them nowhere. Erdogan is an arrogant puppy, who thinks he can treat Syria like his own private Ottoman fiefdom.

America is a lying, arrogant nest of hypocrites. They have been funding, supporting, and arming these Islamist savages from the beginning. They have CIA outposts in Jordan and on the Turkish border. And all the while, their diplomats lecture us on peace and stability.

Thread 2: Fear of Iranian power and alliances

Saudi Arabia is a brutal, reactionary client state of the US and the West. It is also a devoutly Sunni conservative country. It sees the secular, Alawite regime in Damascus allied with Iran, and it gets very, very nervous. Especially since Iranian power is growing in the region.

If Saudi Arabia and its Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) regimes (Qatar, UAE, Kuwait, etc) can split off Syria from Iran by deposing the Baathist regime in Syria, so much the better. They don't care if they support radical reactionaries. Those Islamist maniacs are being used as a battering ram to take down the regime. Saudi Arabia has Syrian blood on its hands.

Thread 3: Religious bigotry

Saudi Arabia, as I've said, is a reactionary, religiously chauvinistic regime. It regards Shia Muslims (in Lebanon, Syria and Iran) as heretics. Saudi and Egyptian Sunni preachers were stirring up radicals around the world and trying to drop them into Syria to cause mayhem and murder.

So, in sum, it's the old game of power politics all over again.

The US and Israel thought they could use the Arab Spring demonstrations in 2011 to effect "regime change" in Syria and put a flunky regime on the throne in Damascus. A regime like the one in Jordan. One that would endorse Israel's theft of Arab lands. One that would turn a blind eye to Israeli and US imperialist domination of the region.

Because that's what they want: flunkies and stooges that say "Yes sir" to Washington and Tel Aviv. Anyone who stands up to them, or opposes their policies, is a "rogue" state. You know the drill.

What they didn't count on was the resourcefulness, patience, and adroit actions of Iran, Russia, and Syria. Asad hesitated for a while in the beginning, but the Iranians saved him, fortunately.

I'm not saying Asad is an ideal leader. In fact, I think he needs to step down at some point in the future. But an Islamist victory in Syria is for me unthinkable. They would ethnically cleanse out all the Christians and Alawites, and ruin the country.