[SVK]

So after 7 years with the same company getting paid peanuts (what a fucking mistake) I started job hunting and it is going very well. Currently in Arizona, but more than willing to move out for the right opportunity. What do fellow RVFers think about cities for the best combination of money, career options, cost of living and lifestyle for us IT folk?

Here are some of my thoughts:

Phoenix, AZ:
+ I'm already here, have a social circle
+ cheap as fuck (comparatively)
+ wages not too bad, I should be able to get 110k or more easily
+ winters are great
+ not a bad lifestyle for the $$$, nice girls for US
- getting bored of it here, would like some change and a 'reset' in general
- summers suck hard
- mostly uninspiring suburbia
- not really a 'tech' city

Bay Area (SF especially):
+ the holy grail of career opportunities, prob most $$$, very dynamic job market
+ SF is a cool city
+ weather
+ beautiful surroundings, new things to explore in NorCal (Yosemite, Tahoe, etc.)
- everything is expensive as fuck
- outside of SF really not very inspiring, but still expensive
- bad ratios, especially Silicon Valley
- taxed to death

Seattle
+ lots of jobs, good money, definitely a tech city
+ cheaper than SF
+ beautiful surroundings, nice city
+ heard that summers are awesome
- weather sucks most of the year, I like rain now living in AZ but would be sick of it after one rainy week
- from what I heard, women and people in general suck ('Seattle freeze')
- still quite expensive compared to other areas
- startup scene lacks compared to Bay area

Los Angeles
+ quite a few jobs, good money most likely, should be able to get 125k or more
+ most areas are a lot cheaper than Bay Area, although 'cool' places in West LA are coming close
+ very good weather (on the coast)
+ good lifestyle (I think)
- traffic, traffic, traffic (could be mitigated with good choice of living place)
- most of the area is spread out uninspiring suburbia
- not as exciting for me as I go to SoCal very often, seen it all

Denver
+ somewhat of a tech city
+ fairly low cost of living
+ clean air, beautiful scenery
+ legal pot
- "Menver"
- flyover country
- cold winters


I do like places with beautiful scenery, mountains/outdoor things to do, so I might be a little biased that way. Also somehow I prefer West coast, but that might be irrational. I don't miss snow and cold weather very much, prefer warmer places.

Anyways, what do you guys think, maybe I missed some obvious places, would love to hear your suggestions.

[Cattle Rustler]

What about Austin? It has tech jobs, it's cheap being in Texas although Austin is expensive.

Hipster Game
Traffic all the time
close to everywhere - Dallas, Houston, Laredo, Corpitos
Univ of Texas

[Brosemite]

(05-06-2014 11:33 PM)SVK Wrote:  

Seattle
+ lots of jobs, good money, definitely a tech city
+ cheaper than SF
+ beautiful surroundings, nice city
+ heard that summers are awesome
- weather sucks most of the year, I like rain now living in AZ but would be sick of it after one rainy week
- from what I heard, women and people in general suck ('Seattle freeze')
- still quite expensive compared to other areas
- startup scene lacks compared to Bay area

Maybe the scene in Seattle is different for local men from Washington State...and maybe the women are ugly as fuck/too hipster-ish during the day...but there is quite a bit of talent there at nights in say the Capitol Hill area.

All the dudes there essentially have no social skills not to mention the women raised in Seattle while still working there as young professionals are excited about meeting transplants (ppl from outside their city). Think Reese Witherspoon good looking from the movie "Fear."

I hear there is quite the Slavic population in the Bellevue area too. The "Seattle Freeze" is indeed true in terms of making guy friends there....but if you can position yourself correctly there for night game..I imagine it wouldn't be that bad of a place.

[Eastside]

(05-06-2014 11:52 PM)Brosemite Wrote:  

(05-06-2014 11:33 PM)SVK Wrote:  

Seattle
+ lots of jobs, good money, definitely a tech city
+ cheaper than SF
+ beautiful surroundings, nice city
+ heard that summers are awesome
- weather sucks most of the year, I like rain now living in AZ but would be sick of it after one rainy week
- from what I heard, women and people in general suck ('Seattle freeze')
- still quite expensive compared to other areas
- startup scene lacks compared to Bay area

Maybe the scene in Seattle is different for local men from Washington State...and maybe the women are ugly as fuck/too hipster-ish during the day...but there is quite a bit of talent there at nights in say the Capitol Hill area.

All the dudes there essentially have no social skills not to mention the women raised in Seattle while still working there as young professionals are excited about meeting transplants (ppl from outside their city). Think Reese Witherspoon good looking from the movie "Fear."

I hear there is quite the Slavic population in the Bellevue area too. The "Seattle Freeze" is indeed true in terms of making guy friends there....but if you can position yourself correctly there for night game..I imagine it wouldn't be that bad of a place.

Seattle is definitely a liberal/feminist friendly city and in general is not the greatest place for quality when it comes to women, however, its not as bad as one would think. If you know where to go during the day (college campuses are all pretty good options (big 3: UW, BC, and Seattle U)) and at night you can stake out a niche for yourself and get decent access to women.

Bellevue is a good spot too. I wouldn't say there is a significant slavic population in Bellevue, but girls do tend to be a bit more feminine than across the lake and people have a lot of money in Bellevue and on average dress a bit better, are in better shape, etc.

As far as tech jobs in the Seattle area go, it's a good spot to be. I know talent gets swooped up here pretty quickly for software engineering, IT, and similar jobs. You also don't have to work in Seattle itself. Microsoft (headquarters) and Google both have big offices just across the lake in Kirkland and Redmond which are just north of Bellevue and I know a lot of people actually commute out of Seattle over to the eastside every day. You also have Amazon and tons of other tech companies in the area. Washington also doesn't have a state income tax, so that's a plus.

Honestly I think the "Seattle Freeze" thing is a bit overrated. If you get in the right circles it shouldn't be a problem. Although I grew up here and I might just be oblivious to it. I'd gather more opinions on this.

Weather sucks during the winter, and parts of the fall and spring if you don't like rain, but summers are indeed beautiful, as well as just the natural geography and "greenness" of the region.

[Travesty]

(05-06-2014 11:52 PM)Brosemite Wrote:  

(05-06-2014 11:33 PM)SVK Wrote:  

Seattle
+ lots of jobs, good money, definitely a tech city
+ cheaper than SF
+ beautiful surroundings, nice city
+ heard that summers are awesome
- weather sucks most of the year, I like rain now living in AZ but would be sick of it after one rainy week
- from what I heard, women and people in general suck ('Seattle freeze')
- still quite expensive compared to other areas
- startup scene lacks compared to Bay area

Maybe the scene in Seattle is different for local men from Washington State...and maybe the women are ugly as fuck/too hipster-ish during the day...but there is quite a bit of talent there at nights in say the Capitol Hill area.

All the dudes there essentially have no social skills not to mention the women raised in Seattle while still working there as young professionals are excited about meeting transplants (ppl from outside their city). Think Reese Witherspoon good looking from the movie "Fear."

I hear there is quite the Slavic population in the Bellevue area too. The "Seattle Freeze" is indeed true in terms of making guy friends there....but if you can position yourself correctly there for night game..I imagine it wouldn't be that bad of a place.

I've visited there. Gone out at night.

My brother worked there for a few months on a movie.

The girls suck anyway you put it compared to many other major U.S. cities. Quality is mediocre overall and they are entitled due to the lack of alpha males around.

If you go to Seattle understand the girls will suck compared to most of the other cities listed. Again like the Bay Area if you have a bright spot in your heart for Asian 6's you may be saved.

[Eastside]

I think Boston also has a good amount of tech/computer engineering jobs. Las Vegas might be an option as well. Austin too like Cattle Rustler mentioned

[Travesty]

Here's my personal ranking on West Coast cities (which all are scenic and have tech jobs) based on a mix of game and quality of women:

1) Santa Barbara (small tech scene still high paying jobs at some start ups)
2) L.A.
3) San Diego (smaller tech scene)

4) SF - Seattle - Portland (based on tastes)

SF - costs more / more opportunities / more to do
Seattle - costs less
Portland - costs even less + more white girls and interesting art / music scene if you are into that

[SVK]

Thanks to everybody who posted here, I really appreciate it. Seattle has been panned here to oblivion but per some of you guys (who seem to live there) it doesn't seem that bad. Good to hear that there is significant Slavic population in Bellevue, I'm myself an immigrant from a Slavic country and prefer girls from that region (or just foreign girls in general). I've never been, but the Pacific Northwest area looks beautiful and would be nice change of pace from rocks and desert. How bad is the weather? I heard that it is indeed rainy almost every day (except for summer), but it doesn't really rain that much - thus Seattle actually has lower precipitation in terms of inches per year than many East coast cities where when it rains it pours.

Austin - I have heard good things about the city, it's cheap and has good tech/startup scene, culture and nightlife. However, the weather seems to suck (almost as hot as Arizona BUT humid) and there's not much cool outdoor stuff around the city. But could be an option.

Santa Barbara - will look into jobs out there, love the area, How expensive is it to live there?

I got some inquiries from headhunters about jobs in Atlanta, what do you guys think? My leaning is negative - hot and humid, South, not as beautiful area as West coast cities. Not sure about a lifestyle out there or how good the IT job market it has.

Also - if it makes any difference - something about myself; early 30s, tall (6'3") white guy originally from central European Slavic country, lived in US for over 10 years now.

[speakeasy]

I'd say of your cities, L.A. is the best bet. It's not the most expensive on the list, but pay for tech jobs is pretty high, good all around weather, best girls on your shortlist and you still have all the mountains and nature not too far away. I think it's the best balance of all the things you want.

SF would be number two on the list, but the women suck big time, radical feminism and hyper political correctness all over the place. Will probably be VERY hard to find red pillers around there.

[SVK]

Thanks Speakeasy, LA is definitely on my radar and I'm in early stages of the interview process with 2 companies out there - one located in Santa Monica and another one in Westlake Village (near Thousand Oaks). How would these 2 compare? I've been many times to Santa Monica and it is a cool area to be in, but know that city proper is SF-level expensive. I don't know anything at all about Westlake Village. What are desirable areas of LA to live?

[puckerman]

(05-07-2014 02:14 PM)SVK Wrote:  

Austin - I have heard good things about the city, it's cheap and has good tech/startup scene, culture and nightlife. However, the weather seems to suck (almost as hot as Arizona BUT humid) and there's not much cool outdoor stuff around the city. But could be an option.

It's not humid at all. Who told you that? Worst thing weather wise is it's often called the "allergy capital of the world."

Who told you Austin is cheap? It's definitely not.

People do outdoor stuff all the time. They are lots of bicyclists, swimming holes, and lots of other stuff.

I think you're confusing Austin with another Texas city, which kind of sounds like Austin.

[maxmueller]

I would also say austin. The tech industry is booming here. Top jobs with good pay - about 20% less than Bay Area which is top of market. But just to warn you austin is getting more expensive by the day. Still a wonderful city to live in. Look into it.

[Blackmagic]

I live in Atlanta and work in the tech world. I was sort of surprised at the flourishing tech/start-up scene and there are a ton of jobs here for good developers. It does get hot and humid in the summer here but the cheap cost of living really does make it the best of the southeast options. Miami and Raleigh are pretty good options in this area of the country, too.

You sound like you're experienced enough to be self employed/location independent, though. Do you not want to explore that option?

[RockHard]

Honestly, you can work in software anywhere. There are jobs in every city, and unless you have a specific skillset or industry experience, or you really want a hot startup scene, I don't think it matters where you are. If you just want work, you can get software jobs anywhere.

Just food for thought, glancing at Craigslist for LA, you're looking at rents possibly double what they are in Phoenix. SF / Silicon Valley is even worse. I'd spend some serious time checking out areas and getting a good idea of what your rent is going to be before you commit - $110K in AZ is not the same as $110K in SoCal.

Look at https://weworkremotely.com/ as well.

[SVK]

I just got a 110k (verbal) offer here in PHX from yesterday's interview. Fulltime job with benefits and all that. Still talking to other companies as well of course.

Yeah, I wouldn't consider 110k in LA, I'm looking at 125k or so at least out there, that should level things a bit. Bay Area really looks like kind of a bad deal unless you get very high paying job or strike it rich wit successful startup. If rents in LA are double of rents in PHX, then rents in SF are double of LA's and quadruple of PHXs. Friend pays $4.5k for a 1 bdr in SoMa.

Thanks for all the replies!

[Pacesetter20]

Take it with a grain of salt, but according to this: http://money.cnn.com/calculator/pf/cost-of-living/ you'd need around $150K in L.A. to have the equivalent lifestyle in Phoenix. Of course there are other considerations so it is not gospel.

[Mujeriego]

I would avoid the SF bay area like the plague unless you have an offer that is miles ahead of the rest or you want to throw your bid in with a start up. It's terribly overpriced for what amounts to suburbia (silicon valley) and the ratios are terrible. SF is cool but rents are ridiculous and the girls are middling. You'll also freeze your ass off there seeing as you're used to Phoenix. If you want to live in CA go to LA. There's way more to do, hotter girls, and it's less expensive.

[puckerman]

I disagree completely with the comments about weather in Seattle being "bad." I lived in Port Townsend for six months. It's about 40 miles northwest of Seattle on the other side of the sound. It gets similar weather.

Yes, the sky was gray all the time. But the temperature range is between 30 and 80. It never gets ungodly hot nor ungodly cold. You may have to put on a light jacket or wear long sleeves, but it's a place where it's easy to spend a lot of time outside.

Perhaps, also because of the weather and environment, it's the only place I've lived where my allergy problems completely disappeared.

[Onto]

If you want to make more money, stop bieng an employee, create an S-Corp and charge $80-$100/hr.

NYC has a lot of tech jobs. You can live in NJ cheaply and take the NJ Transit in or work in NJ. Same with Metro-North. Or live in NYC and rent a Studio for a couple grand a month.

The most important thing is to incorporate yourself, unless your goal is to become a manager or director someday, but you can always do that later on if you wish.

[BlurredSevens]

(05-06-2014 11:33 PM)SVK Wrote:  

What do fellow RVFers think about cities for the best combination of money, career options, cost of living and lifestyle for us IT folk?

Denver
+ somewhat of a tech city
+ fairly low cost of living
+ clean air, beautiful scenery
+ legal pot
- "Menver"
- flyover country
- cold winters

Denver/Boulder tech scene is going to boom in a few years. Tons of opportunities there in tech right now, and the momentum is growing. Denver as a city is growing rapidly too - construction everywhere.

Couple corrections:

- "Menver" is not entirely accurate. The ratio, according to the census, is pretty close to 50/50. The nightlife leaves a lot to be desired compared to Austin or LA, but day game is strong. Walking into a Whole Foods in Boulder is always a boner-inducing affair. Fittest state in the country too, so the chicks are fit.

- Winters are mild, not cold. Denver itself is on the high plains and not in the mountains, and is touted for having 300 days of sunshine per year. This means that the people are a lot friendlier and happier overall than in Seattle/Portland.

Austin: Awesome city, worth strong consideration. I think the nightlife there is underrated on this forum. It's really a fun, up and coming city. Tech wise it's probably on par with Denver/Boulder.

I think Seattle is a great city but fuck rainy weather and cloudy days.

[ddjembe mutombo]

(05-08-2014 11:18 AM)BlurredSevens Wrote:  

(05-06-2014 11:33 PM)SVK Wrote:  

What do fellow RVFers think about cities for the best combination of money, career options, cost of living and lifestyle for us IT folk?

Denver
+ somewhat of a tech city
+ fairly low cost of living
+ clean air, beautiful scenery
+ legal pot
- "Menver"
- flyover country
- cold winters

Denver/Boulder tech scene is going to boom in a few years. Tons of opportunities there in tech right now, and the momentum is growing. Denver as a city is growing rapidly too - construction everywhere.

Couple corrections:

- "Menver" is not entirely accurate. The ratio, according to the census, is pretty close to 50/50. The nightlife leaves a lot to be desired compared to Austin or LA, but day game is strong. Walking into a Whole Foods in Boulder is always a boner-inducing affair. Fittest state in the country too, so the chicks are fit.

- Winters are mild, not cold. Denver itself is on the high plains and not in the mountains, and is touted for having 300 days of sunshine per year. This means that the people are a lot friendlier and happier overall than in Seattle/Portland.

Austin: Awesome city, worth strong consideration. I think the nightlife there is underrated on this forum. It's really a fun, up and coming city. Tech wise it's probably on par with Denver/Boulder.

I think Seattle is a great city but fuck rainy weather and cloudy days.

I grew up in Austin and have been living in Denver for the past few years.

Denver real estate and rental units have been climbing dramatically in the past couple years. Houses in the city limits that were $250k a couple years ago are approaching $400k.

Austin real estate and rentals have climbed at an unrealistically high rate for the past two years. We sold my grand parents house in Shoal Creek for just under $300k in 2010. It is now work almost $700k.

There are only a couple days that are bitter cold in Denver. Most of the winter is in the twenties.

I personally think Austin summers are hotter than Houston because it takes longer for it to cool down to the 80's at night. It's basically the same temperature during the day as Houston, just a tad less humid.

The good looking people in Austin (and Texas in general) are better looking than those in Denver. However, there are more good looking people in Denver.

Denver has the edge because it has more industries than Austin. Austin is solely supported by government and tech. Denver has government, tech, oil & gas, and medical.

The night life in Austin is better than Denver, but it is still incredibly overhyped. Denver has a lot of cool places to wind down; all of the party bars in LoDo is just polluted with Aurora trash.

I personally like Denver better than Austin. There is less stupid shit clogging this city (See: ACL). There is much more stuff to do outdoors here, and the hoopin' is much better. I'm just an average pick-up player here, but I slaughter souls whenever I play pick-up in Austin.

[Travesty]

Santa Barbara:

$50k with roommates

$60k your own place

You can scrounge a bit below that but not much without things getting tight.

So no problem for dev job salaries if you can land a gig.

[Travesty]

^

Denver is straight up not a good city if gaming is a top priority in your life. lived there. Quality is lower than probably almost every west coast city. The outdoorsy rustic vibe let's girls take it easy by not getting all dolled up often.

You will find strong competiton for 6.5s and most girls coupled up.

If I had a wife and kids it would be a fantastic place due to COL and activities.

[SVK]

Thanks for all the replies guys. So far it looks that most likely I'll stay here in AZ. Next best contender is LA as I'm in talks with a couple companies there. The expected pay is 15k-20k above Phoenix, which should cover the higher COL.

One of the jobs is in Thousand Oaks area - LA locals what could you tell me about lifestyle there? Personally would rather prefer West LA (Santa Monica, Venice, WeHo). But rents are def cheaper out there.

Yeah, Bay Area is prolly out of picture for now, didn't even have many job inquiries from there, only low-balling Indian headhunters offering 6 month contracts in Silicon Valley cities for $55/hour - fuhgeddaboudit.

Denver does seem interesting, probably the next serious contender. I know that it is very sunny area while not being overly hot, which is great. Is the startup scene up and coming?

Seattle - yeah probably too rainy for me since I'm used to sunny weather, but would give it a thought if the right job comes up.

Austin - will consider it, depends on jobs.

Thank you everyone and keep it coming!

[ddjembe mutombo]

(05-08-2014 12:12 PM)Travesty444 Wrote:  

^

Denver is straight up not a good city if gaming is a top priority in your life. lived there. Quality is lower than probably almost every west coast city. The outdoorsy rustic vibe let's girls take it easy by not getting all dolled up often.

You will find strong competiton for 6.5s and most girls coupled up.

If I had a wife and kids it would be a fantastic place due to COL and activities.

It's true. The fit girls are mostly 6's and 7's here. It's a great place to live if getting lays is a low priority in your life. It's very easy going but active at the same time. I like that dynamic because it lets me make music and fitness my top priorities.