[daddysanchez]

I'm finishing up my sophomore year at an hbcu. I no longer find value in the quality of education that I am receiving here. So a few weeks ago I decided to finish this semester and pursue a life in the military. Navy specifically.

My plans are to pursue the same type of jobs that fit into my major I have now, information technology. I just want to get straight into the type of things that I want to do instead of paying 10 grand a year for teachers who can't teach and mandatory public speaking classes. Friends say I should finish up but if I do then that's even more debt that I would be in because I'm going strictly off loans. If I was at a different school then I'm sure I would feel differently but unfortunately I'm not.

I could also transfer to really analyze post secondary options even further but I would still be paying out of pocket. I'm not racking up any more debt.

In the navy I want to pursue a stem job only so with whatever I choose it will be valuable to me once I become a civilian. I have a plan. I'm not going in blind. I know exactly what I'm getting into and how to make it work for me. I'm still young and aware that I don't know everything though. I would really appreciate honest opinions and advice from the more experienced members on here. What should I consider before making this final decision? What would you do in my position and what do you know now that would have made you make that decision back then.

Thank you

[Suits]

If you are half way to a completed degree, why not do both. Find a way to do military and finish of school and you'll have more options than most.

One ideal route would be to join the navy for a spell and then use your benefits to pay for your last two years of college. Then pursue your long term career plan.

[Orion]

If there are armed forces on earth that offer perspective, it's US Armed Forces. Particularly navy.

[Courage Reborn]

Unless you are doing science, law, maybe engineering, a college education is mostly worthless.

You can learn IT skills on youtube. Don't need to take orders for that.

[Faust]

There's a blogger named DannyFrom504 who just retired from the military after 20-odd years of service.
He just wrote a post on jobs for people considering the military.

I would advise reading it, and maybe contacting him; he's pretty busy now but if you're cool and polite he would probably give you some more specific advice.

[puckerman]

My sincere advice is to stay out of IT altogether. It's a shit career. Then again, it might be better if I had military experience. I do recommend the Air Force over the Navy though--it seems like the "high tech" branch.

I've been in IT for 15 years, and it's always been a vastly overrated career. A few people win the lottery, but I don't know how. I'm still making less than $50,000 per year. I'm also still doing the shit work like swapping tapes and opening boxes. In summary, I'm doing the shit jobs so other people can do good jobs. And I often end up correcting their screw-ups.

If you have military experience, you'll do better with the many organizations that hire veterans. You're also more likely to get a security clearance.

One thing to remember is that in the real world, game trumps everything. Just learn how to play the game, and you will do well in whatever career you choose. Your actual job skills are meaningless, and so is your work ethic.

[Brodiaga]

I am not in IT, but pretty close.

IT is worth it if you have the talent to do it (I don't). As in, you are one of the top 10% coders and actually like coding. Even better if you are one of the top 1% coders. The problem with IT is that the barriers to entry are very low, especially these days when anybody with a computer and an internet connection can learn it and then compete against you for a fraction of the salary out of Mumbai or whatever.

[Monty_Brogan]

Honest opinion: enlisted life is shit and for suckers.

I'll always cherish my time in the Corps, and glad I served when I did ('03 to '07, war time Marine Corps was quite an interesting life to say the least). But being enlisted is a tough fucking life and you will be treated like a child.

Unless you think you can hack Nuke school or are a PT stud and want to try and get through BUD/S, don't enlist. Do whatever you have to do in order to complete your degree and shoot for the stars to become an officer, as cliche that sounds. Don't worry about the $$, I guarantee there is some type of tuition reimbursement in place for boot (new) officers. Change programs, take some time off, find yourself, etc, just finish your degree first.

.02 from a former ground pounder

[Billy Chubbs]

If you are already in the process of getting a degree and sincere about the military, like Monty said you should finish your degree and go in as an Officer. And don't let the recruiter swindle you with some bullshit, like "You wrote down here you want to join the Navy but with your job you could be making an extra 2 grand a year if you join the Army instead". If they're trying to push you toward something it's guaranteed to be shit. Locked into a three or four year contract doing something you hate doing being somewhere you hate living is a very, very bad position to be in.

[kdolo]

Dont go military for ANY reason if you have any ability to think on your own.

The military is for three types.

1. traditionalists: family tradition of service, God and Country types.

2. borderline-full sociopaths: the idea of potentially being able to kill legally and also enjoy the prospect of dominating others - giving orders to underlings.

3.lazy-unmotivated-not too sharp or creative: people who cant really think, adapt, on their own and want an easy way out. The military gives them 'structure''discipline.

[PoosyWrecker]

I would finish college, if you need a break why not do the same job in the Navy Reserve or other reserve/guard component and stay in college. They will help you will school, training, certs, and money. Plus you'll get a security clearance, vets preference, combined with affirmative action you will be a shoe in for any gubmint jobs. I have a friend who spent his Navy enlistment in the bowel of a carrier, there were times in his life that he didn't see the sun for weeks.

Make sure you do the ASVAB prep and get the highest score you can get. You should PM aliblahblah about contracting jobs

kdolo when and where did you do your time in the mil?

[daddysanchez]

(04-14-2014 03:24 PM)puckerman Wrote:  

My sincere advice is to stay out of IT altogether. It's a shit career. Then again, it might be better if I had military experience. I do recommend the Air Force over the Navy though--it seems like the "high tech" branch.

I've been in IT for 15 years, and it's always been a vastly overrated career. A few people win the lottery, but I don't know how. I'm still making less than $50,000 per year. I'm also still doing the shit work like swapping tapes and opening boxes. In summary, I'm doing the shit jobs so other people can do good jobs. And I often end up correcting their screw-ups.

If you have military experience, you'll do better with the many organizations that hire veterans. You're also more likely to get a security clearance.

One thing to remember is that in the real world, game trumps everything. Just learn how to play the game, and you will do well in whatever career you choose. Your actual job skills are meaningless, and so is your work ethic.

Do you think there will be an "IT Bubble" like there is with Business Administration type degrees? A lot of people are going into it and I'm also skeptical of its reality once you try and find a job. Many people praise it because "IT is the future" but really all it is made up of is dedicated coders who either make their own program and market well to make it a success or coders who work for other "coders" who don't like coding but know how to manage people or web designers who will never make shit unless they work independently or start a their own business. Those "managers" are the ones making money. None of the technical things you may learn concretely in school (coding, discrete math, web design) will be profitable compared to what it may have cost you to get the degree if you work for someone else unless it's google or IBM.

Idunno what it is. The degree and IT business as a whole seems iffy to me.

[El Chinito loco]

You could do what my cousin did. He grinded out a degree (he hated school as well) and applied Navy OCS and got in as a butterbar. He's now a captain. Going officer is like getting all the "perks" of the military without dealing with quite a bit of the shit as an enlisted man whose life is honestly worth about as much as a box of those instant mashed potatoes they serve at the d-fac.

[mbare]

kdolo, I'd be careful breaking military people down in those categories. Number of veterans and active duty here.

OP, you can consider going to a school that has ROTC, and join. Tuition will be paid for. Or....

-Join the Navy (or consider the Air Force), get out and use your GI bill to go back to school if you want.

-Stay in school, get your degree while unfortunately accumulating debt, then stay in the private sector or go to an officer school (ODS or OCS) and become an officer. If you can, be an officer is the point. Retiring from the military isn't such a bad economical decision, unless you have connections/feel you can make a lot more on the outside in the private sector. I say this because you can retire after 20 years in the service with full medical benefits and a sweet pension. It'll open you up to a second career, and give you flexibility.

There are plenty of negatives as well. PM me if you have any other questions.

Best,
M'bare

[Tytalus]

Officers can have much more lucrative career paths post military than Enlisted - so far as I understand. If you go enlisted, you want to get something super specailized - like being a jet fighter technician. There was a story going around quietly in the Canadian Air Force (no one laugh, we have about 50 F18s that actually fly) that was interesting.

The RCAF was short of jet fighter technicians. They paid something like $25 million to send 150 guys down to get trained in some big air force base in Texas. But, the bureacrats didn't think it through and had no conditions of the training, and they got a specailist designation that gives maybe another 5k-10k/year. Corporals and Master corporals at the time made about 35-45k.

Within 2 years, something like THREE guys were left. They all got scooped up by defense contractors in the US making $150k/year.

If you learn to fix/build these billion dollar machines you can get paid mad $$ in the defense industry after your military career is over to help SELL things to the military. Not sure how that's gonna work if they close a bunch of bases down - but still. Pick your specailty wisely as an enlisted or become an officer- the pay and treatment is a lot better.

[Cobra]

Don't have much time now but I'll add.

I was in the Navy for 4 years active duty right out of high school. Best years of my life development wise especially social development. I would have probably been the IRT if I didn't do this.

That being said, I worked with one too many dick officers to not recommend college first or have THEM pay for college first.

Then become an officer and don't be a dick. It's so rare in the Navy officer community that your people will actually respect you.

If you don't have other options and see yourself leading a mundane life otherwise, however, makes sense to join before college.

Hope this helps.

[puckerman]

(04-14-2014 06:54 PM)daddysanchez Wrote:  

Do you think there will be an "IT Bubble" like there is with Business Administration type degrees? A lot of people are going into it and I'm also skeptical of its reality once you try and find a job. Many people praise it because "IT is the future" but really all it is made up of is dedicated coders who either make their own program and market well to make it a success or coders who work for other "coders" who don't like coding but know how to manage people or web designers who will never make shit unless they work independently or start a their own business. Those "managers" are the ones making money. None of the technical things you may learn concretely in school (coding, discrete math, web design) will be profitable compared to what it may have cost you to get the degree if you work for someone else unless it's google or IBM.

Idunno what it is. The degree and IT business as a whole seems iffy to me.

If you can find some freelance gig and keep it going, that is your best bet. That being said, I've known some really smart guys who couldn't keep their freelance gigs going.

First thing to keep in mind is that many companies consider IT overhead. I work for a retail company. We still have old computers running Windows 2000. It probably costs more money to keep this stuff around than it would to get new stuff. But as far as the company is concerned, IT isn't important.

Another thing is that too many employers give way too much screening power to idiotic HR people. They end up throwing out people who could do the job. This is why you have to get to the right people.

And finally, a lot of work is acquired through recruiters. I have never figured out how to make these idiots work for me, and most recruiters don't know enough to come in out of the rain. If you can figure out how to make them work for you, you've got it made. If you can't, you're screwed. Again, game trumps everything.

IT is full of backstabbers who are territorial and don't see themselves as part of a team. There is very little teamwork. Ask people for help, and even if they know the answer, they will say, "Read the manual." They will also say that even if the manual doesn't have the answer.

Managers are often unreasonable dickheads. They don't prepare employees to do their jobs. Then they blame their employees when they "fail." Managers will also post a job with 20 requirements and won't hire anyone unless they meet all 20. All managers are looking for the perfect employee, and that doesn't exist. And this is the main reason why these jerks are always complaining that "good people are hard to find."

[UrbanNerd]

There is a saying in IT/software engineering world. Those who do not keep up with the latest technology will get left behind. On top of that, there is a difference between IT and Computer Science and the money makers know more of Computer Science.

I have been in software engineering over 24 years. The last 14 years have been at over $100k/year. The last 6 years at $175-$200k. Of course much of it based on me having a security clearance and doing defense work. My undergraduate degree was in both Applied Mathematics AND COMPUTER SCIENCE!!....not Information Technology or Information Systems but Computer Science. To succeed in software engineering, one needs an analytical mind and Computer Science requires more Math and Physics.

As for the military...also consider the Air Force. Same benefits with less chance of being in harms way. I am a contractor for that infamous federal agency in Fort Meade, MD. There are tons of Air Force personnel who never get deployed and get to stay-n-play with the latest technology.

[General Mayhem]

The military can pay off IF you are smart about it.

I did the same thing you are considering. I got fed up with college so I quit one lonely December, enlisted in the Army, and by February I was going through Infantry school, then got out of that to go back to college through ROTC to become an officer.

I hate ROTC, almost everyday I wish I was back with my buddies on active duty. I always joke that I lost all my dignity when I became a cadet. Hopefully it will pay off, we'll see.

That being said, I would recommend OCS or enlistment. Enlisted life sucks sometimes, but you will learn a lot if you do it right. I have had a few buddies who have been in the Navy and they always spoke highly of it.

My dad is also an Air Force Lifer. From what i've seen the AF is a cozy life compared to the other branches.
Good luck with whatever you decide.

[Cobra]

Air Force women are hotter too.

Navy women, meh.

Army, marines don't know; although I've seen some fine ass Latinas in the marines

[puckerman]

(04-15-2014 06:03 AM)UrbanNerd Wrote:  

I have been in software engineering over 24 years. The last 14 years have been at over $100k/year. The last 6 years at $175-$200k. Of course much of it based on me having a security clearance and doing defense work. My undergraduate degree was in both Applied Mathematics AND COMPUTER SCIENCE!!....not Information Technology or Information Systems but Computer Science. To succeed in software engineering, one needs an analytical mind and Computer Science requires more Math and Physics.

Government work is about the only good work in IT around. The private sector totally sucks.

My best recommendation is to get an IT job with a college.

[Akula]

(04-18-2014 01:55 AM)puckerman Wrote:  

(04-15-2014 06:03 AM)UrbanNerd Wrote:  

I have been in software engineering over 24 years. The last 14 years have been at over $100k/year. The last 6 years at $175-$200k. Of course much of it based on me having a security clearance and doing defense work. My undergraduate degree was in both Applied Mathematics AND COMPUTER SCIENCE!!....not Information Technology or Information Systems but Computer Science. To succeed in software engineering, one needs an analytical mind and Computer Science requires more Math and Physics.

Government work is about the only good work in IT around. The private sector totally sucks.

My best recommendation is to get an IT job with a college.

I don't get it - I thought Microsoft and Silicon Valley were like Nirvana for those with IT degrees. Now the best place to make money in that field is working for the government??? Wow how things change....

[puckerman]

(04-18-2014 09:28 PM)Akula Wrote:  

I don't get it - I thought Microsoft and Silicon Valley were like Nirvana for those with IT degrees. Now the best place to make money in that field is working for the government??? Wow how things change....

It depends on your defintion of nirvana. For some people, working 60 or 70 hours a week is that and then getting laid off is that.

Government generally won't ask you for that. It gives you stability and good benefits.

I'd like to think that taking the red pill also means not being enough of a sucker to work all the time, unless you are working to build your own business. That's the only time it pays off.

Also, here's a good video on how companies place fake job ads with no intention of hiring American citizens. Law firms advise companies on how to do this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCbFEgFajGU

"...our goal is clearly not to find a qualified US worker..."

[Pacesetter20]

Don't succumb to the allure of a "steady paycheck," this is how they get you.

Everything that a recruiter tells you is probably the 1% of what you actually will be doing in your job. If you actually get what they say you will get. Which is another matter all in of itself because it is not beyond recruiters to say things that are technically true but in no way shape in form enforceable. Unless you have a side scheme or insider, don't do it. Military just ain't what it used to be, if it ever was. Plus all the shit they talk about employers preferring military vets is 1000% bobkus.

Source: 8 years active Army.

[Cobra]

^^^Agreed. No one cares if you're a veteran. Just a PR scheme.

To add, unless you go into a profession in the military that is obviously transferable in to the civilian world (eg Air traffic controller, IT tech, electrician), expect to start off working as a manager at your local supermarket when you get out. I personally know too many cats that this happened to.