[Espresso]

There was a news story from last month, about a new law in Belgium that would make 'sexism' illegal, punishable by a prison sentence of 1 month to 1 year, and/or a 1000 euro fine.

http://www.flanderstoday.eu/politics/sex...elgian-law

Quote:

Federal minister of equal opportunities, Joelle Milquet, has announced a new law that will make sexual harassment illegal in Belgium. Under the new legislation, it will be a criminal offence to insult a person based on gender or to make intimidating sexual remarks in the street. The new law also aims to tackle online sexism promulgated on social media sites like Facebook.

Quote:

The new law, which is expected to come into force next month, makes it a crime to “make a gesture or statement that is clearly intended to express contempt for one or more people of a different gender on the basis of their gender or to make them appear inferior or reduce them to their sexual dimension in a way that constitutes a serious attack on their dignity".

It would also be illegal to say disparaging remarks against a stay-at-home dad.

Quote:

Critics argue that it is unclear what sort of actions will be covered by the new law.

No shit.

Surprisingly, there is hardly any major global news coverage of this. A Washing Post blogger wrote critically about it here.

Can any Belgian guys on the forum weigh in on this?
Does this mean that doing daygame in Belgium can now potentially land you in jail? (e.g. a girl could argue that you reduced her to a sexual dimension and she felt her dignity was under attack)

The law also extends to stuff written online.
So if you write something 'sexist' on facebook/blog/forum you can end up in jail?
Even if you're not Belgian?

Also, say you write something online in Canada that is in breach of this new law, you presumably become a criminal in Belgium.
Could you technically get arrested in Belgium upon arrival?
Does this mean that it is technically possible that if you are in a country that has an extradition treaty with Belgium, they could extradite you and send you to jail?

I know that last part is not going to happen any time soon, but the fact that it may be possible in principle, is already somewhat disconcerting.

[soup]

And this is one reason why, with as much shit as our country gets for our problems, I'd rather be an American than a European

[RexImperator]

They don't have the same concept of "free speech" there, that's for sure.

[username]

What a bunch of pussies.

[heavy]

Excited to see the great advancements in eye contact and body language coming from Belguim near future

[Every10GivesMeA10]

Belgium sucks they raid gyms there checking for anabolic steroid users... they make everyone piss in a bottle and arrest you on the spot if you've tested positive.

[Wadsworth]

Quote:

The new law, which is expected to come into force next month, makes it a crime to “make a gesture or statement that is clearly intended to express contempt for one or more people of a different gender on the basis of their gender or to make them appear inferior or reduce them to their sexual dimension in a way that constitutes a serious attack on their dignity”.

Unless of course you're a feminist criticizing males, "masculinities," or patriarchy. Then it's totally fine, and should be exalted. Feminists should probably also feel free to lampoon all men as rapists and sex offenders, since we've got a utopia to build.

[RexImperator]

^^^ Naturally, because they are "oppressors". I believe Canada is closer to this European view on speech as well, i.e. it incorporates political correctness and there is less freedom to be "offensive".

[Jukes]

Men have to literally be blind to not notice Belgium women in the warmer season . Men will have to aquire the senses of a dog now in order to find the sluts . This is sad .

[Dusty]

[soup]

Is Belgium really this much of a pussy nation? I never hear about hot Belgian girls.. It's probably ugly people?

[RexImperator]

[zanetti]

The OP's link only covers part of the story, the PC part.

I don't wanna start another race/religion thread but the background of all this was a documentary that that Sofie Peeters girl that was mentioned in the article, made a couple of years ago. She got a friend to film her while she was walking through a part of Brussels with a lot of muslim immigrants, mostly from North Africa.

The documentary consists of her walking down the street while various muslim men come up to her and come on to/harass her. Some just ask her out for a drink, others call her "bitch, whore, slut" etc.

Needless to say this documentary caused a major shit storm in the Belgian media and with the PC politicians who could no longer pretend the multi-cultural society was without problems.

This is a link to a short part of the documentary with English subs. I saw the whole thing when it came out. They seem to have omitted some of the more disturbing parts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0uQInTECI4

[Suits]

Looks like bad game just got criminalized.

[Espresso]

(04-25-2014 04:37 PM)Wadsworth Wrote:  

Quote:

The new law, which is expected to come into force next month, makes it a crime to “make a gesture or statement that is clearly intended to express contempt for one or more people of a different gender on the basis of their gender or to make them appear inferior or reduce them to their sexual dimension in a way that constitutes a serious attack on their dignity”.

Unless of course you're a feminist criticizing males, "masculinities," or patriarchy. Then it's totally fine, and should be exalted. Feminists should probably also feel free to lampoon all men as rapists and sex offenders, since we've got a utopia to build.

The interesting thing here is, as pointed out in that Washington Post article, that it would be illegal to called someone 'sexist'.

Quote:

Soon, it could be a criminal matter to call someone a ‘sexist’ in Belgium. Even if someone may in fact be one. Why, you ask?

A logical side effect of making sexism illegal is that the simple act of accusing someone of being sexist, may amount to criminal defamation. Under Belgian law, as in many other legal systems, it is an offense to accuse someone of having committed crimes that they were not actually convicted for. Law is often a double-edged sword.

I don't see how this could become a reality. What will some people do without their favourite word used to bludgeon and suppress discussion. And imagine all the girls online who have called someone sexist in some facebook comment or elsewhere.

That article makes some further good points:

Quote:

It is also striking that there is no similar protection in Belgian law for any other characteristic or ‘ism’. Even racism is not in itself punishable as a concept. Only specific manifestations of it are prohibited, such as incitement to racial hatred and violence. An identical provision already exists for sex and gender though.

As such, the new law will introduce a form of preferential protection against sexist speech only. Aside from this being discriminatory, this situation is unlikely to last for very long. No doubt, other groups will soon demand that their protection be raised to the same level.

...it would be much more practical if the government were simply to provide us with a short list of what we can still say to each other….

(04-25-2014 09:26 PM)zanetti Wrote:  

The OP's link only covers part of the story, the PC part.

I don't wanna start another race/religion thread but the background of all this was a documentary that that Sofie Peeters girl that was mentioned in the article, made a couple of years ago. She got a friend to film her while she was walking through a part of Brussels with a lot of muslim immigrants, mostly from North Africa.

The documentary consists of her walking down the street while various muslim men come up to her and come on to/harass her. Some just ask her out for a drink, others call her "bitch, whore, slut" etc.

Needless to say this documentary caused a major shit storm in the Belgian media and with the PC politicians who could no longer pretend the multi-cultural society was without problems.

This is a link to a short part of the documentary with English subs. I saw the whole thing when it came out. They seem to have omitted some of the more disturbing parts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0uQInTECI4

Thanks for pointing that out. There was actually an RVF thread about it at the time that story broke.

I'm just surprised there's so little discussion about this new law in the media, it seems like a pretty big deal! As the WP article describes it: "what is believed to be the first legislation of its type, anywhere, the concept of sexism will be rendered punishable."

[Smooth Operator]

That law came after a movie was made whereby a hidden camera filmed a girl walking in a muslim/moroccan neighborhood in Brussels. In the summer these muslims even spit on women that are wearing skirts. Here's a trailer of that movie (with english subtitles):

At one point they make a mistake in the translation and say "molesting" instead of "disturbing".

These guys don't have game at all. Though you can call it direct game

Guys with game don't have to fear anything from that new law.

WNB

[Parlay44]

I see a Don't Bang Belgium book in the future.

[soup]

Unless you have something like a coercive dictatorship, putting limitations on speech is almost completely unworkable and won't work out.

Belgium is being a pussy nation for not dealing the actual problem.

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

Damn, serial killers and people who run over children while drunk driving don't get much worse sentences than these proposed for sexism.

[Brisey]

(04-25-2014 09:03 PM)soup Wrote:  

Is Belgium really this much of a pussy nation? I never hear about hot Belgian girls.. It's probably ugly people?

I've been working in Brussels for about 7 years, the calibre of women is abysmal. The girls in Antwerp are a bit better but overall it's easily the worst country i've ever been to in terms of quality.

[soup]

Ugly women and thirsty guys with no game = perfect storm of shit

The women know that they are ugly, and thus that the guys are desperate. Combined with the fact the guys don't have any game, and actually this whole scenario makes perfect sense.

And the government, probably comprised of a bunch of pussys themselves because, let's face it- how would you let this situation arise? ... The government probably has no idea how to handle this.

It's what happens when you have an essentially neutered/no-significant country.

[Mekorig]

What a bunck of thirsty guys. Not even drunk hobos have such bad "game" (barely game) here in Bs As.

[Brisey]

(04-26-2014 09:25 AM)soup Wrote:  

Ugly women and thirsty guys with no game = perfect storm of shit

The women know that they are ugly, and thus that the guys are desperate. Combined with the fact the guys don't have any game, and actually this whole scenario makes perfect sense.

That's exactly how it is, women think they are 2-3 points higher than what they really are and Belgian guys are usually chumps.
Belgium has a record for going the longest period without a government, something like 19 months.

[tomtud]

Reminds me of a video I saw of an Egyptian male actor dressing undercover as a female. Guys with bad game are in the millions.......

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.liveleak.com/ll_embed?f=62a63e92b635" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Maybe the root cause of bad game are desperate men.......covering women and segregating didn't help the situation in Egypt and in other countries where women are harassed and even acid is thrown into their faces. Therefore you have this desperate behaviour. This photo shows how a cultural change impacted men's behaviour. In the 70s it was more open, girls wearing mini skirts and living more like a European country. As traditional cultural traditions took hold, so has the rise of desperate and thirsty men. Much like in Belgium, desperate men brings this into play.
http://www.frontpagemag.com/2010/jamie-g...niversity/

Sorry for deflecting the thread a bit, but wanted to show that even men dressed up as women with hijabs on still get harassed. Men everywhere need sex. When you are deprived of it, look what is the result.

[Genghis Khan]

Damn. That's insane.