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Hanoi Data Sheet
#1

Hanoi Data Sheet

Hanoi Data Sheet
This trip report is an admitted sparse attempt to give a sense of the city - I visited twice during 2013, each time for at least five days.  I wouldn't say in any way that my experiences were exhaustive and I didn't get the flag - I probably could have but not in the quality arena I'd prefer to stay.  

VP, this is per your request, hope you enjoy...

Hanoi is an inland city in Northern Vietnam, reachable by short flights from HK, Guangzhou and other Asian capitals. Its actually a really centrally located city, with very good values for money, and could conceivably be a good place to base yourself if your work is location-independent like mine. Additionally, I am told that business opportunities are exploding in Vietnam - I am also told by credible sources that Vietnamese make some of the worst business partners (when partnered with foreigners, including other Asians) and have a nasty habit of kicking their partners out of the business after its up and running for a few years. Due to the corruption of the local police forces, its not difficult for a Vietnamese entrepreneur to get away with this type of activity apparently, and this has led to less direct investment by Chinese in Vietnam over recent years.

Hanoi is a mid-sized city, spread over a fairly large area. To me, for an Asian city, it doesn’t have the feeling of enormous population density (except when it comes to motor-bikes - you’ve never seen so many scooters in your life, an ocean of them, constantly honking, at all times it seems.

Arriving in to Hanoi airport, you’ll have to have already arranged your visa if you’re American like me - check if you need to. I used My Vietnam Visa to arrange my visa, both times, and it was waiting for me at Immigration in Hanoi, without an issue. There are different visa lengths available, but for me, both times I opted for the shortest, a thirty day length. After you disembark from your plane, bear left as you enter the main hall of arrivals, before immigration, where there is a visa processing booth. The processing time per applicant is a bit long, so I would suggest you hustle over there if the flight you were on was full to avoid a long wait to get processed. After you’ve presented all the documentation and fees that you need to (the visa company will provide a list of what you need, pics, etc.) you’ll head to an immigration officer, he or she will basically ignore you and stamp your passport. You’re in.

Like any third-world country, getting ripped off at the airport for a cab is not a difficult things to have happen. But if you know what the cost should be, just tell the driver what you’re willing to pay, and they shouldn’t argue - I had no problems on either trip. To the Old Quarter around Hoan Kiem lake, expect about 100,000 dong, or a bit less than US$20. There might be buses to there as well, but I didnt check that out, and just took a taxi instead. Its about a thirty minute ride without traffic to the OQ.

Once you arrive at your hotel, its quite easy to find a shop to sell you a SIM card with data service. Its not particularly expensive, though given how cheap things are in Hanoi, on a relative basis its not cheap. Wi-fi is widely available in restaurants and hotels, though.

Both times I visited, I stayed in the Old Quarter, the first time at the Hanoi Central Backpackers (in the top, private double room, split with a friend from China). That was $25 per night, so $12.50 each, including wi-fi and a bia-hoi drink-up with the backpackers that stayed in the dorm rooms on the other floors and some staff. My buddy used to work there, which is the main reason we stayed there during my first trip. Overall, its a bit dirty, but the service was basically friendly and it was a very central location in Old Quarter, with decent wi-fi. A modest breakfast is also included (the coffee is quite good, however - the Vietnamese do coffee well).

The second time around I stayed at the Landmark Hanoi Hotel, which was a big more on the outskirts of the Old Quarter, but only a few minutes motorbike ride to the center of it (or a five minute walk). Virtually no difference geographically, this place was $35 per night for a nice, clean quiet room with effective air conditioning and a good breakfast.

I know that backpackers had a bit of a door policy but it was circumventable - it didnt seem they let Vietnamese in unless they worked there. I didn’t have any opportunity to encounter the issue at Landmark, but it seemed like the same thing.

Both times when I was there, my focus was on seeing the city, cuisines, museums, and some nightlife. I hired a guide for very little money - he was someone who i met who sold lighters on the street, spoke decent english and had guided foreigners around before. He did a good enough job and was pleasant enough that I hired him a second time around when I went back. It was only a few dollars a day, and he would pay his own way by purchasing things like T-shirts and gifts on my behalf- they would have charged me more than double what they charged him for the same item. He also got me a bag of weed (he was definitely nervous about it) and also loaned me his terrible, brakeless motorbike to use a few times (I probably shouldn’t have taken him up on it).

The Girls
Well, I’d say, having been in China, Japan, Thailand, Vietnam, Korea (a bit), and Malaysia, that the girls in Vietnam have the most elegance, class and beauty on average. That’s solely based on Hanoi of course. They range from Chinese-looking, which I like, to mixed-rase Eurasian French Indochinese, which I also like. They do tend to be very thin, small boned girls, and in fact, I noticed some pretty incredible milfs walking around. After having a child, they plumped up just a little bit in the right places, to their benefit.

With respect to friendliness, I would definitely say (1) women are more friendly than guys in Hanoi, (2) you can pull girls even if they don’t speak much english at all (especially if you’re hanging with a guide who can translate) and (3) I think closing is harder than any other country I’ve visited in East Asia, except Malaysia (again thats based on Hanoi and Borneo in Malaysia, not KL).

I think, though given some time, foreigners can do quite decently in Hanoi. Unfortunately, some appear to have figured it out, and there seems to be a sizable foreigner population, both transient backpacker types roaming everywhere around Hanoi and in other districts, like near West Lake. I’d say that there is also a group of younger people more accommodating and interested in interacting with foreigners, and a probably larger subset that seems to ignore them. Regardless, you shouldn’t expect to be a novelty around the Old Quarter or many other parts of Hanoi - the city has a long history of foreign people living there.

WeChat was kind of useful when I used Around Me when staying at the Landmark hotel - I got two or three bites very quickly on it. I also used Badoo a bit. I could have met up with one or more girls from WeChat, but Badoo ended up attracting women from Southern Vietnam for some reason. It also seemed to be full of single moms, or at least maybe thats who is the most responsive to foreigners.

One of my stranger experiences in Hanoi with a girl was when I met one working in a shop with her mother. I’d gone there to buy a few t-shirts (I had only a few with me and the hot weather was taking its toll) - I dont remember how it happened, but I ended up going back to chat with her via google and my guide a few times, and then she joined me for dinner one night. She brought a friend, and my guide was the friend’s date (thought the friend was a notch I could have gotten, - English speaking single mom who texted me to meet several times during my trip). Anyway when I went to Hanoi the second time, I went to say hi to this girl, and her mother told me that she wasn’t at work because she was getting married that weekend (this was only a few months later). I don’t really know much more than that, but because she was on my facebook, I saw that she did indeed get married. Cute girl, too.

Food
Food is pretty good in Vietnam, and very cheap. There are night markets like you’ll find in Thailand, and its possible to stay on a very tight budget with those. However, even the multiple cafes on every block serve palatable and seemingly clean cuisine (I didnt get sick at all, though I don’t eat meat, which cuts down on the chances), some of it tasty, if a bit lacking in variety. I’d say the average price of a meal in one of these cafes would be US$2-3, maybe a bit more with beer. If you go to a western style restaurant, you’ll pay a little more, but not too much US$5-6.

There are, to be sure, nicer places to eat. For a date, you can try Quan An Ngon, which has first class seafood and a tremendous variety. It would probably be around US$20-30 for two people, maximum, depending on wine and what you order. Its quite a busy scene, and is outdoors under a huge tent the sides of which can pull down if it starts to rain. I’d definitely make the trip there if you’re in Hanoi.

Nightlife
As reflected in other posts on Vietnam, Hanoi has a large collection of Bia Hoy places, where you sit and drink cheap beer on plastic stools on the street. Its mostly Vietnamese, though there are some places frequented by backpackers. Its a very cheap way to pull a buzz, but the beer truly is shit.

Hanoi also has a club scene, some being in a district on the north side of the Old Quarter, on Luong Ngoc Quyen and Ta Hien. I have to admit I don’t have a great recollection of the various clubs on that street, or those elsewhere, though I will say that there was some solid talent in these places. Some of the ones that I recall are Soho, and Flow bar, Flow being owned by the owner of the Central Backpackers. Its nothing special, filled with smelly foreigners mostly. I think Fat Cat was another place that was OK. Some of them have a mixed crowd, though table game would be the way to go if you want to aim for locals. The backpackers tend to be flooded on the dancefloors mostly hooking up with each other and acting fairly beastly. I did see some slim yet curvaceous Vietnamese beauties in most of the mixed bars, often quite nicely dressed in skirts and blouses and heels. As you might expect, the staffs are often good looking as well. Also, I didn't encounter any P4P at any of these places, or really at all in Hanoi. I think that element is around but focused in specific hotel bars which I didn't visit.

I ended up hanging out with two random Canadian (I think they were Canadians, I can’t remember) guys one night and we got a table at some lounge, and were able to pull the two girls from the next table over. They were polite, but in my limited recollection, nothing ever came of it. There are nice Vietnamese only bars, where the well-heeled Vietnamese go to drink, and I tried to find a way in to get the experience, but it didnt happen. At these clubs, you would definitely be a novelty, and its my understanding that its all social-circle and bottle service, though again, not expensive if the USA is your standard (big city USA that is).

If I go to Vietnam again, I’d almost certainly do a few different things - defintely would head to a beach city next time, and not focus too much attention on one target (I won’t go into the story here). Having a guide is a good call, if you can find the right person, due to the general lack of english (there’s some, not a ton). It will cost peanuts, and if at any point you want him to leave, he’ll go and come back whenever you want.

I've referral links for most credit cards, PM me for them & thanks if you use them
Strip away judeo-christian ethics ingraining sex is dirty/bad & the idea we're taking advantage of these girls disintegrates. Once you've lost that ethical quandary (which it isn't outside religion) then they've no reason to play the victim, you've no reason to feel the rogue. The interaction is to their benefit.
Frequent Travs
Phils SZ China
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#2

Hanoi Data Sheet

very nice!
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#3

Hanoi Data Sheet

Thanks for the datasheet!

I've been to Vietnam (although I went to Ho Chi Minh City instead of Hanoi), and I would say that it's a place worth checking out.

One of the biggest problems of Vietnam is that the level of English amongst the general population is extremely poor/non-existent.

However, the girls are extremely feminine, friendly, and probably towards the more attractive end of the scale in Asia.
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#4

Hanoi Data Sheet

G,

Great sheet! Based on the observations you describe here, I get the feeling a good bankroll, and actually living in Hanoi would potentially play very well here. Thoughts?
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#5

Hanoi Data Sheet

The only nightlife I saw in Hanoi was the Hanoi Backpackers Barcrawl, which was great. I got with some American girl but then bailed at 2 because I was going to Halong Bay at 6 AM the next morning. Apparently my friend said she was banging on our door trying to come in to bang me but I turned over, told him to fuck off, and rolled back over. To be fair, I think I puked that night at like 11, before I even made it to the first bar on the crawl.

Good times.
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#6

Hanoi Data Sheet

Very nice report G_g! Thanks for taking the time to write it up!
How widespread is French among the girls there? I'd assume that on,y the upper middle classes and above would speak it.

Also the fact you are reiterating that V girls are among the better looking and more fashionable in all of Asia adds even more credence to their reputation. From what I heard from people who live there, V girls are less of ONS and more of dating material where you'd have to invest 2-3 dates in them before bedding them. Would you agree with that?

Cheers.
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#7

Hanoi Data Sheet

Vietnam is sounding more and more like THE place to post up in Asia and work on biz. Good lifestyle with low cost, and a good place to get a high quality girlfriend.

Dr Johnson rumbles with the RawGod. And lives to regret it.
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#8

Hanoi Data Sheet

You perfectly summarized my thoughts as well about Vietnam from what I've been hearing and reading RG. Have you been there?
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#9

Hanoi Data Sheet

Cheers for the datesheet.
I actually just finished a 1.5 month trip going north to south, and i'll organize the info on that later.

Personally I found Hanoi to be riddled with backpackers like head lice, and having the least pleasant people in all of Vietnam (and Asia for that matter).

The girl quality is probably the best in Vietnam (maybe even SEA), but to me it seemed like the only ones interested in foreigners were semi-pros or looking for sugardaddies.

Maybe I only saw one side of the city, but if I ever get there again it will be too soon.
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#10

Hanoi Data Sheet

Quote: (03-18-2014 12:12 AM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:  

You perfectly summarized my thoughts as well about Vietnam from what I've been hearing and reading RG. Have you been there?

Haven't been there yet but I feel it's in my future for sure. First will be Philippines though.

Dr Johnson rumbles with the RawGod. And lives to regret it.
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#11

Hanoi Data Sheet

MD- I'd think its a good place to base, though I think you'd want to consider other cities in Vietnam, not just Hanoi. I think Hanoi is fine, and its closer to HK, China, Korea, Japan etc if thats important to you. Ho Chi Minh is a significantly longer flight.
That being said, if there are places with better air quality, and where the people might be nicer to you, then if the costs are basically the same, I'd consider them as well. I didn't witness foreigners entirely integrated into Viet lifestyle - there were friendships, but usually with people who were connected to foreigners by working in a tourist oriented business.

Depending on what you want, I imagine in a smaller city not far from Hanoi or Ho Chi Minh, prices could be much lower than even those low prices encountered in Hanoi. You don't even need that good a bankroll. I imagine $5-6k a year would suffice for a decent standard of living depending on your age and lifestyle.

VP - didn't encounter people speaking French at all. I think you might find more of that down south. I think in the north, the French are present, but not necessarily viewed without enmity. And yes, I'd agreed, Viet girls tend to be a bit more reserved and dignified than some of their SE cousins from other countries. I think the best of them, looks-wise though, are near or at the top.

RG - Agreed.

Sunshine, a few thoughts. Yes, on the backpackers. Too many of them wandering around Hanoi. Too many tourists overall, I felt. Not sure this is unique to Hanoi in Vietnam, and we know its not unique to Vietnam in SE asia, and therefore it isn't a decision point.
I also agree that its a less friendly city than many I visited in this part of the world. However, its not less friendly than many cities in Europe, for example, or India, or Japan (in my limited experience there). I'd also say that girls from SE Asia, with the enormous income disparity that exists, are all going to come off (unless from a wealthy family) as gold-diggers, and maybe its just a function of the situation. To think that their not aware of the income disparity, and to think that they wouldn't even dream of escaping the poverty in which more of them are raised, well, I don't believe thats realistic. I guess I'd look to distinguish pure-gold diggers from those that might be interested in you for a number of reasons, but also see how you could help their families out of poverty in a long term relationship. Presumably, if you're into the girl long term, that would be an OK use of your money. I know for me it would be, as I'd want my significant other to be happy and her family reasonably healthy (with food, clean water). We're usually talking about a few bucks in SE Asia, in any event. If someone starts asking after LV or designer this and that, of course, I'd react very differently.

I've referral links for most credit cards, PM me for them & thanks if you use them
Strip away judeo-christian ethics ingraining sex is dirty/bad & the idea we're taking advantage of these girls disintegrates. Once you've lost that ethical quandary (which it isn't outside religion) then they've no reason to play the victim, you've no reason to feel the rogue. The interaction is to their benefit.
Frequent Travs
Phils SZ China
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#12

Hanoi Data Sheet

I have been to Vietnam several times. It would come in 4th or 5th at best for countries in SE Asia I would want to live.

Don't get your hopes up.
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#13

Hanoi Data Sheet

I think for me it would be below China (not really SE asia, but I mean South China anyway), Philippines, and Thailand. I don't know enough about Malaysia or Indonesia to weigh in on those, and I'm fairly sure Laos and Cambodia would be too far off the beaten path for me. Taiwan I would do.

Danger, please chime in with your primary drawbacks if they're not addressed.

I've referral links for most credit cards, PM me for them & thanks if you use them
Strip away judeo-christian ethics ingraining sex is dirty/bad & the idea we're taking advantage of these girls disintegrates. Once you've lost that ethical quandary (which it isn't outside religion) then they've no reason to play the victim, you've no reason to feel the rogue. The interaction is to their benefit.
Frequent Travs
Phils SZ China
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#14

Hanoi Data Sheet

G_g,
Good insight as usual my friend! Btw, would be very interested to hear your thoughts on Hanoi vs HCM. From what I've heard, HCM is a better place overall with friendlier locals who are less likely to be rude and ripping you off. Did you notice the same?

DD,
I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts for why you wrote that Vietnam comes 4th or 5th in SEA?
Specially given that Viernam and HCM is turning into a major hub for location independepent guys and for lifestyle designing as it provides a good mix of low cost of living with high quality of living and services.
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#15

Hanoi Data Sheet

VP - never made it to HCM, but if you go, perhaps I'll meet you there.

I've referral links for most credit cards, PM me for them & thanks if you use them
Strip away judeo-christian ethics ingraining sex is dirty/bad & the idea we're taking advantage of these girls disintegrates. Once you've lost that ethical quandary (which it isn't outside religion) then they've no reason to play the victim, you've no reason to feel the rogue. The interaction is to their benefit.
Frequent Travs
Phils SZ China
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#16

Hanoi Data Sheet

My experience was not far from what Matt from nomadicmatt.com talked about in this article...

Why I’ll Never Return to Vietnam
http://www.nomadicmatt.com/travel-blogs/...o-vietnam/

Quote:Quote:

Back in 2007, I took a trip to Vietnam and upon leaving I swore I would never go back. The only way I would give this place a second chance is if I meet a girl who really wants to go to Vietnam or if some business trip takes me there. Who knows what the future will hold but for the time being, I never want to return. And the reason for that is one of my most often asked questions. People e-mail me several times a week asking why, in my about section, do I single Vietnam out as being my least favorite country. What could be so bad about it?

Well, I figured it was time to give an answer.

The simple answer is that no one ever wants to return to a place where they felt they were treated poorly. When I was in Vietnam, I was constantly hassled, overcharged, ripped off, and treated badly by the locals.

I met street sellers who constantly tried to openly overcharge me. There was the bread lady who refused to give me back the proper change, the food seller who charged me triple even though I saw how much the customer in front of me paid, or the cabbie who rigged his meter on the way to the bus station. While buying t-shirts in Hoi An, three women tried to keep me in their store until I bought something, even if that meant pulling on my shirt.

On a trip to Halong Bay, the tour operator didn’t have water on the boat and they overbooked the trip, so people who paid for single rooms suddenly found themselves with roommates… sometimes in the same bed!

One of the worst experiences came while in the Mekong Delta. I was catching a bus back to Ho Chi Minh City. I was thirsty, so I went to get a common drink in Vietnam – water, lemon, and some powdery, sugary substance in a plastic bag. The woman making this concoction looked at me, laughed at her friends, and then started laughing at me while clearly not putting in all the ingredients into this drink. I wasn’t born yesterday and I knew I was being blatantly ripped off. She was cheating me right to my face.


“She’s telling her friends she’s going to overcharge and rip you off because you’re white,” said a Vietnamese American who was also on my bus. “She doesn’t think you will notice.” “How much should this really cost?” I asked my new companion. I gave the vendor the correct change, told her she was a bad person, and walked away. It wasn’t the money I cared about but the utter disrespect she showed me.

I wondered if it was just me. Perhaps I simply had a bad experience and Vietnam was really great and amazing. Maybe I just had bad luck. Maybe I just caught people on an off day. However, after talking to a number of other travelers, I realized that we all had the same stories. Hardly anyone had a good story, which might explain why 95% of tourists don’t return. They all had tales of being ripped off, cheated, or lied to. They too never felt welcome in the country.


I witnessed other people having problems in Vietnam. I saw friends getting ripped off. Once my friend bought bananas and the seller walked away before giving change back. At a supermarket, a friend was given chocolate instead of change. Two of my friends lived in Vietnam for 6 months, and even they said the Vietnamese were rude to them despite becoming “locals”. Their neighbors never warmed up to them. They were always outsiders. Strangers to even those they saw every day. Wherever I went, it seemed my experience was the norm not the exception.

I’ve encountered many people who thought the people in Vietnam were really nice. They enjoyed their travels and I’ve often wondered why there is such a disparity in experiences. I’ve noticed one common trait among the travelers who have liked it and who have hated it. Most of the people who had a good experience traveled in luxury, while those that didn’t were backpackers and budget travelers. It’s a curious thing to think about and reinforced by a story I once heard.


While in Nha Trang, I met an English teacher who had been in Vietnam for many years. He said that the Vietnamese are taught that all their problems are caused by the West, especially the French and Americans, and that Westerners “owe” the Vietnamese. They expect Westerners to spend money in Vietnam, so when they see travelers trying to penny pinch, they get upset and thus look down on backpackers and treat them poorly. Those who are spending money, however, seem to be treated quite well. I don’t know if this is true or not but given what I had seen, it did make some sense.

I’m not here to make judgments about Vietnam or the Vietnamese. I don’t believe everyone in the country is bad or rude. I only have my travel experience to reflect upon. You should go and make up your own mind. After three weeks in Vietnam, I couldn’t get out fast enough. Why would I want to stay in a country that treated me like that? Why would I ever want to go back? I don’t care that they tried to overcharge me. It’s not about the money. I’m happy to pay more – a dollar goes a lot further for them than it does for me.

But just because I’m a backpacker doesn’t mean I deserve any less respect than anyone else. I wasn’t looking for the royal treatment, just basic respect. And I never felt respected in Vietnam. I never felt like they looked at me as a human being but just as someone who could be ripped off. There are rude people everywhere yet it was so disproportionately bad that if I never went back to Vietnam, I wouldn’t feel too bad about it.

But just because I didn’t like Vietnam doesn’t mean you shouldn’t go. This is my experience but you should always just take what someone says, file it away, and go yourself. And if you don’t go because of this article, I’ll find you and drag you there myself!

You can plan your trip using my Vietnam guide to find out what to see, do, save money, and avoid getting ripped off.








Overall I just found the people not to be as friendly or inviting as other countries. Neither Ho Chi Minh City or Hanoi where really that nice of cities. A few spots here and there that are nice but overall not impressed.

I would rather live in....

1. Thailand
2. Philippines
3. Indonesia

way before for Vietnam.



These are all just my personal observations. I have never lived in any city in Vietnam. The longest time I ever spent in Vietnam at one time was 1 month and in total of all my trips maybe 2 months in the country. I am no expert. Take my experience with a grain of salt.


I am in agreement with many that Vietnamese girls are very good looking so at least we can all agree on that [Image: smile.gif]
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#17

Hanoi Data Sheet

Also mean to add $20 for a 30mintue trip, sounds alot or is that normal?
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#18

Hanoi Data Sheet

THat's what I recall the trip from the airport being - and I was with a friend who lived there for six months (half Chinese half British guy, whatever thats worth as a data point) and he said that was a standard cost. Perhaps it was fifty thousand dong, and I am remembering incorrectly? I don't think so though.

I definitely agree its less friendly, which is why I said in my reply that I would pick China, Thailand and Philippines to live before Vietnam. I'm also exceedingly nice to people in general when I travel, so perhaps, maybe, just maybe I get a slightly better response to someone who is merely polite. Of course, I have a trigger, and if the behavior isn't well treated, than it won't continue.

Everyone should try to visit several of these countries before deciding to remain anywhere, of course. Its not a difficult thing to do once you're already in SE Asia from a logistical or monetary viewpoint. And of course, everyone has their own biases, perhaps being surrounded by very attractive women, easily accessible or not, would mean more to me than the next guy. [Image: tard.gif]

I've referral links for most credit cards, PM me for them & thanks if you use them
Strip away judeo-christian ethics ingraining sex is dirty/bad & the idea we're taking advantage of these girls disintegrates. Once you've lost that ethical quandary (which it isn't outside religion) then they've no reason to play the victim, you've no reason to feel the rogue. The interaction is to their benefit.
Frequent Travs
Phils SZ China
Reply
#19

Hanoi Data Sheet

I found great difference between Hanoi and HCMC, like almost polar opposites.
HCMC city is extremely livable in my book, as long as you can master the bike. The backpacker scene is easily avoidable, food options are great (though relatively expensive to the rest of VN), and the girls, though not as attractive as the ones in Hanoi, are still way above what you would find in China for example, and are very friendly, intelligent and open to foreigners.

This observation seem to be prominent by the people living in Vietnam too. I heard so many people saying that the north and south are still culturally like different countries, this goes as far as northern dialect being almost undecipherable by southern people.
HCMC people consider the residents of Hanoi as "uptight and snobish", while HCMC people are widely considered in VN as the most western and liberal.

About girls being golddiggers.
The Vietnamese girls are far from stupid or exploitable, and probably the sharpest I met in Asia. So they know that a western guy can earn in a few days what they can only dream on making in month of hard work, and they want a bite of that cake. This is especially important in the Vietnamese culture, where the girl's husband is supposed to support her family financially
Also they see other girls, going around with older western guys that pretty much buy the everything they want, a phenomena going out of control in VN and SEA in general. So basically to a lot of attractive young girls, there seem to be no point in wasting time on a relationship that isn't lucrative.

This is a big problem to local guys dating. I heard about a lot of relationships breaking up when the girl started asking the guy for monthly allowance (sometimes in the thousands of dollars).
An American VN I met in Hanoi (based in HCMC) told me this happened to him several times, and he can't seem to hold a LTR with a quality girl without this happening.
As he put it, there is a stacking order for guys: At the top are rich VN guys, then rich western guys, American VN guys, handsome western guys, not handsome western guys, and at the bottom of the barrel VN guys.

Obviously this is not the case for all girls, especially the independent ones with good jobs. My Vietnamese flag bought me breakfast, never asked me to pay for anything, and she was far from rich.
But I did have girls starting to give me the "poor girl spiel" 20 minutes into chatting with them, obviously I knew where that was going.

@DirectDanger, regarding ripoffs, scams and whatnot:
Traveling in Vietnam is definitely not for the inexperienced, especially in Hanoi, where personally I felt like a walking target with a dollar sign in the middle (and I was far from looking like the generic cloud-headed backpacker).
You will pay more than locals in the touristy area. But we are talking about the difference between paying 10K dong to 20K dong for a cup of coffee (10K dong = 0.5$), so if you are mad about that, you deserve to be scammed for more.

The only things you need to be careful is getting scammed big, and it's pretty easy to avoid by not being an idiot.
If you take unregistered taxis from a taut, you gonna get ripped off.
If you buy coffee beans at the heart of a market where only tourists go, you gonna get ripped off.
If you think you can get a 3 day trip to HaLong bay for 70$, you gonna get ripped off.
If you think a tuktuk driver offering you a free ride at 11PM is a good idea, you gonna get mugged of worst.
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#20

Hanoi Data Sheet

I've read about people getting ripped of in VN and hassled occasionally, but all these reports were from tourist centers; Hanoi, Saigon and Nha Trang. I've always been interested in VN, but more off the beaten path areas. I read updates of an American guy living in a real small town in central VN and he has never said anything about getting ripped off.
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#21

Hanoi Data Sheet

Quote: (03-19-2014 12:48 AM)Mr. Sunshine Wrote:  

I found great difference between Hanoi and HCMC, like almost polar opposites. HCMC city is extremely livable in my book, as long as you can master the bike. The backpacker scene is easily avoidable, food options are great (though relatively expensive to the rest of VN), and the girls, though not as attractive as the ones in Hanoi, are still way above what you would find in China for example, and are very friendly, intelligent and open to foreigners.

Totally agree with this. I just finished up a week in Hanoi. Overall I honestly can say I didn't like the city at all. The people were not friendly at all, and there was always someone at my heels trying to aggressively sell me something or rip me off. On the contrary, in HCMC my experience was great, I really enjoyed the city, and in my opinion blows away Hanoi in every aspect. I met some really cool people there, and wound up getting invited to a family dinner by a sweet cute girl I met online, stayed a few days longer than expected. The food was excellent in both cities. bun cha yummy!! I definitely will return to HCMC one day soon.
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#22

Hanoi Data Sheet

I'm in Hanoi now. Been here for a month now and will be here another three weeks. Great place to visit, wouldn't want to live here.

I am no expert on things here but here are a few things I've picked up during my short time...

1. Check out the Old Quarter and Hoan Kiem lake. The OQ is madness. Millions of people, vehicles, street-side cafes, etc. Worth checking out.

2. Night market on weekends. You might find some deals. Haggle.

3. It's true that everyone will try to overcharge you.

4. To try to avoid this, talk to the locals. Talk about money and prices of things you've bought or want to buy to give you an idea of how hard to haggle.

5. For 100,000 VND (less than $5US) you can get an awesome beef bbq and vegetables for dinner. Very much worth the money and it's no overpaying, or so I've been told.

6. Yes, you *could* eat for $5/day but you'll be eating the same three dishes every time. Noodles, noodles, more noodles and maybe a banh mi (sandwich).

7. If you like bread, this is a great place to be. Baguettes for under 50 cents!

8. My first few days here, I tried Skout and got nothing but prostitutes. After chatting we'd talk about meeting and they'd hit me with "but I need money". After a week or so, that seemed to stop. Not sure why, but I was happy to not be getting that anymore.

9. The xe om (motorbike taxis) are annoying enough to make Bruce Banner transform. They don't just say "motorbike" and leave you alone if you politely say/wave no. No, they keep coming at you. Over and over again. You can look them right in the eye, say no thanks, walk PASSED them and they'll keep coming. Where you going? Motorbike? Cheap for you. They will do this even if you're not walking. You could be leaning on a building having a smoke and texting furiously on your phone. Doesn't matter. They are relentless. A close second is the occasional girl with a basket of mini donut-like things. Say no, and she'll just stick one closer to your face. No thanks. Try! No thanks. You try! Free! I don't want one. It's free! You try free! I really don't want one. Come on! It's freeeee! You try!! Fine, I'll try it. OK! How many you want! None. What? You try free and don't want?? Nope. You buy cheap! I don't want any. 20,000! No thanks. 15! No. 10! No. I give you two! No thanks. Only then does she walk away but not before sneering in disgust, especially that you just ate one for free.

10. Screw the taxis. Take Uber everywhere. I compared the same trip back and forth and Uber was only a tiny bit more expensive and a whole lot classier.

11. Speaking of Uber, the ride from the airport is a fucking rip off. But you have no choice. I know I didn't. I paid 330,000 VND (about $16) from the airport to the OQ. The ride was 25 minutes. A normal taxi for the same 20 minutes would be about $4 or so if it wasn't to the airport. Obviously, you're paying for distance too but the difference is insane. In the Phils, I pay less than $5 from the airport to Makati and it must be almost the same distance. Even if not, the difference is huge. I just checked Uber from here to the airport and the estimate was anywhere between $15 to $20. Just take Uber and ride in style for pretty much the same price.

12. The girls. Well, I keep reading everywhere that Vietnamese woman are not only the most beautiful in the region but also so classy and sophisticated and this and that. I'm not seeing it. Yes, there are some very pretty ones but in a month here I haven't seen any that have blown me away. Maybe it's just a type thing. I don't know. I'm not a big fan of untoned, pasty, fleshy legs which you have in spades here. I see lots of women with barrel-like torsos. The geek look is everywhere. I'd say 70% of the girls I see out there look like they spend their Saturdays and Sundays in the library. I don't find the fashion to be particularly good. (Except for the Vietnamese slinky dresses that hug the body all the way down. Those are spectacular!) Again, yes, there are some very good-looking women to be found but I don't see them on every 10 seconds like you do in Japan. The women here are fatter than the girls in Japan on average, by far. Compared to the Philippines, I personally think the Philippines has better-looking women on average. The Phils, however, has a preponderance of women with a bit of a tire. They could be tiny and 40kgs and still have that damn tire. But many many of them have great legs. And tanned. Anyway, just my opinions. Not that impressed with the overall quality of women here.

As for class and sophistication, well, I don't know about that. The women I've eaten with smacked their food loud enough to disturb a rock concert. They don't have a sense of humor that I've detected. I'm aware that the language barrier can be a huge factor on this but I get a bigger sense of uptight and selfish (they seem to like their boys beta) than class and sophistication. I could very well be wrong though.

I've met at least 8 girls that I've spent a significant amount of time with and I can't say that any of them stuck me as particularly interesting, funny, fun or compelling. Most were nice enough but that's all.

All of these were from online. I haven't bothered day gaming because the times I was going to, the language barrier put a quick stop to any idea of that. I know that if I talk to 30 girls, one or two might have good enough English for me not to want to stick needles in my eyes but I don't want to put in that kind of effort.

I will say, however, that with the exception of the aforementioned prostitutes on the net and one girl I had lunch with (who tried to get me to pay for the $35 bill -- which is EXPENSIVE for lunch here), none of the ones I've hung out with seemed to be after my money. Which is good because I don't have any anyway. I'm here on a VERY tight budget and can't afford to splash some cash around. But other than maybe paying for our coffees or a meal under $15 for both of us, they're not out for gold like I expected from everything I've read.

13. However, I should point out that a lot of people saying "people aren't friendly at all" are likely referring to service personnel or sales people of some sort. Meet some real locals with jobs and you'll see that they are plenty friendly. I wouldn't call them "warm" but they are friendly and helpful. Even the above-mentioned girls were quite helpful to me, telling me what I should be paying for a certain thing or where to find something I need, etc. People selling you shit are not friendly any more than they think they need to be to sell an item to you, true. But get away from them and meet some locals. Normal people are pretty much the same everywhere and are generally friendly (even acknowledging the fact that situations and cultures can influence one's way of thinking very much -- such as the Americans are responsible for our troubles idea, etc.). I've even had Vietnamese girls apologize to me for her countrymen's behavior with trying to rip me off. There are some very nice people out there but if your only experience is the ones selling you shit, you WILL NOT leave here thinking so. That said, when you're traveling around and you are subjected to that kind of crap daily, it wears on your nerves and it reaches a point where you just don't care whether "normal people" are nice or not. The negative experience of having to deal with that crap so often makes the overall experience a bad one.

I haven't been to HCMC yet. I'm still trying to think about how I want to get there (bus, motorbike, fly) but from everything I'm reading, I'm looking forward to leaving Hanoi. Sure there's something here to experience if you're the type that like to travel just to travel. Yes, it's cheap. But also, yes, you're not often going to get laid on the first meet, or even the first date. (I did with one girl but not the rest.) These girls for the most part are looking for bf. One of the most common questions I got online was "do you live here or just traveling?" They're looking for someone they can imagine a future with.

If you've read this far, then you deserve to be rewarded so I'll drop a bit of wisdom on you that will make a tremendous difference to your odds of getting some action in Hanoi. That is, hotels bad, apartments good. I've had two different girls tell me this on their own. One, when I invited back to my hotel looked at me like a rapist and said no but if I had my own place then sure. Got an AirBnb place and she was here the day after I moved in. (Unfortunately didn't close but that's another story.) The other girl that told me hotels bad apartment good hasn't seen my place cuz I was able to close her at my hotel anyway. [Image: biggrin.gif] Anyway, moral of the story here is, forget hotels and go with AirBnb while in Hanoi. I don't know how important this is in HCMC though, if at all, but here it will make a huge difference!
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#23

Hanoi Data Sheet

sorry for the bump but,

any suggestion for pipelining in Hanoi?

on Tinder there's just western girls
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#24

Hanoi Data Sheet

I'm in Hanoi right now . I would suggest yougo to Saigon. Not much difference but more lively and warmer there.
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#25

Hanoi Data Sheet

How do the girls in HCMC compare to the girls of other cities in Vietnam? I have heard quality is higher in HCMC
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