[Ice]

Hi, I have a job-related problem, and would be very interested in hearing your thoughts:

I recently worked as a freelancer for a big corporate client - they hired me to create the content for a corporate magazine. It was a pretty cool job, well-paid, and I got the credit for editor-in-chief.

I only met the guys responsible for the magazine once - I performed the all of the work off-site. In the meeting there was the head of business development - a guy - and the PR manager - a woman. I had a good connection with the guy, but less so with the female PR manager.

While I was working on the project the woman went on maternity leave, and another - female - PR manager took over her job. I never met her, only interacted with her via email. I thought the interactions were always very terse and short-spoken. But I just thought whatever. When I was done with the project, she sent me a very brief email - basically only two lines - thanking me for my work and that's it. It kinda felt like, "thanks for the work - I don't want to work with you again".

I sent her an answer saying thanks, too - and of course I mentioned that I would be interested in collaborating with them again in the future, as they are planning on publishing this corporate magazine regularly. But no answer from the manager.

The thing is, I think the content I provided for the magazine was on a very high level. I have done this before, and I have always received praise for my work. I even provided them a bit more content than what they paid for.

I then got in touch with the business development guy and also thanked him in an email. He wrote back and told me that he really liked the magazine. So I told him that I would like to keep working with them in the future. He said yeah sure, let's see if we can work together on some other issues. But he told me that the PR manager is responsible for the corporate magazine, so I should get in touch with her and discuss it with her. So I sent her an email again and told her that I spoke with the business development guy and that he told me to get in touch with her regarding a further collaboration - but no answer again.

My Question:

What should I do?

I thought I could either call the PR manager and try to talk with her on the phone and clear this up. Or I could get in touch with the business development guy again and tell him that the PR manager is not answering my emails.

What are your opinions on this?

If for some reason they don't want to work with me again that's fine, but I just feel that this female PR manager wants to sabotage me.

[berserk]

In my opinion, I would never work a place where my boss was a woman, I am serious about it too, can't take women seriously as leaders.

[Ice]

(03-15-2014 09:25 AM)berserk Wrote:  

In my opinion, I would never work a place where my boss was a woman, I am serious about it too, can't take women seriously as leaders.

Yeah but as I said, I don't work there, it was a freelance job that I did off-site.

But yeah, had bad experiences with female bosses, too, in the past.

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

It is not necessarily related to gender. Maybe she is jealous/afraid of her possibly supplanting her and would rather remove you from the picture entirely.

[Vaun]

Unfortunately she probably didnt like your work, or, she has a friend/vendor/cousin that does what you do and she wants to hire them. PR people are a weird lot, they think they are doing gods work, and that their work is 'earned media', even though they are being paid a stupid retainer. Have often found them ignorant, besides connecting with the press or having them ghost write an article for you, which essentially is their core job. But of course they think they are branding, design, marketing, video, advertising, experts...

Sorry to tell you man, she probably didnt like your stuff, but I would keep reaching out every two weeks, with more examples of your work. And since you are a proven entity, and that PR people usually wreck all of their relationships, her friend might not come through and you will be tee'd up nicely to get more work. But dont put your eggs in this basket.

[Ice]

(03-15-2014 09:36 AM)Vaun Wrote:  

Unfortunately she probably didnt like your work, or, she has a friend/vendor/cousin that does what you do and she wants to hire them. PR people are a weird lot, they think they are doing gods work, and that their work is 'earned media', even though they are being paid a stupid retainer. Have often found them ignorant, besides connecting with the press or having them ghost write an article for you, which essentially is their core job. But of course they think they are branding, design, marketing, video, advertising, experts...

Sorry to tell you man, she probably didnt like your stuff, but I would keep reaching out every two weeks, with more examples of your work. And since you are a proven entity, and that PR people usually wreck all of their relationships, her friend might not come through and you will be tee'd up nicely to get more work. But dont put your eggs in this basket.

Vaun, thanks for the answer.

Maybe she didn't like the work - who knows. I can only say that the magazine was on a topic I have a lot of expertise in, and written a lot about in the past - and that's also the reason why they hired me to write it in the first place.

I also sent her first drafts of all the articles way before the deadline so that she has time to ask me for any amendments if necessary. Based on her emails she was happy with the content - at least she didn't want to have any corrections made.

But anyway - what do you think is the best course of action?

Sending her new stuff doesn't really make much sense in my opinion - I have already written the whole magazine so she knows my work. I think the content I provided was on a high level, so I won't have any "better" stuff in the nearer future.

Should I call her?

Or should I get in touch with the business development guy again and tell him that I'm not getting any answers back from her?

[Ice]

(03-15-2014 09:32 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

It is not necessarily related to gender. Maybe she is jealous/afraid of her possibly supplanting her and would rather remove you from the picture entirely.

Yeah I thought about that too - that might be a possibility.

But either way, what do you suggest I should do?

I think it's stupid to just shrug and say "well, she's not answering me, too bad" and walk away. I mean what the fuck.

[Vaun]

(03-15-2014 10:25 AM)Ice Wrote:  

(03-15-2014 09:36 AM)Vaun Wrote:  

Unfortunately she probably didnt like your work, or, she has a friend/vendor/cousin that does what you do and she wants to hire them. PR people are a weird lot, they think they are doing gods work, and that their work is 'earned media', even though they are being paid a stupid retainer. Have often found them ignorant, besides connecting with the press or having them ghost write an article for you, which essentially is their core job. But of course they think they are branding, design, marketing, video, advertising, experts...

Sorry to tell you man, she probably didnt like your stuff, but I would keep reaching out every two weeks, with more examples of your work. And since you are a proven entity, and that PR people usually wreck all of their relationships, her friend might not come through and you will be tee'd up nicely to get more work. But dont put your eggs in this basket.

Vaun, thanks for the answer.

Maybe she didn't like the work - who knows. I can only say that the magazine was on a topic I have a lot of expertise in, and written a lot about in the past - and that's also the reason why they hired me to write it in the first place.

I also sent her first drafts of all the articles way before the deadline so that she has time to ask me for any amendments if necessary. Based on her emails she was happy with the content - at least she didn't want to have any corrections made.

But anyway - what do you think is the best course of action?

Sending her new stuff doesn't really make much sense in my opinion - I have already written the whole magazine so she knows my work. I think the content I provided was on a high level, so I won't have any "better" stuff in the nearer future.

Should I call her?

Or should I get in touch with the business development guy again and tell him that I'm not getting any answers back from her?

I dont know, most of the time I have found when you provide excellent service and a product as a contractor, and they mysteriously go cold on you, it usually means they have no money, or have someone else waiting in the wings. So she could have very well liked your work, but may have a friends husband who is also a designer lined up to take your spot. Didnt you say the pr person you originally contracted with went on maternity? Being in your spot isnt ideal, but not entirely bad, if they do in fact have someone else, if they fail to deliver, your up next. Maybe sending her stuff is annoying, I hear you, but I would keep the lines open and find other work in the meantime while this is on a slow burner. Keep the BD connection open too, lunch or coffee/drinks works well for getting candid advice.

[Ice]

(03-15-2014 10:35 AM)Vaun Wrote:  

(03-15-2014 10:25 AM)Ice Wrote:  

(03-15-2014 09:36 AM)Vaun Wrote:  

Unfortunately she probably didnt like your work, or, she has a friend/vendor/cousin that does what you do and she wants to hire them. PR people are a weird lot, they think they are doing gods work, and that their work is 'earned media', even though they are being paid a stupid retainer. Have often found them ignorant, besides connecting with the press or having them ghost write an article for you, which essentially is their core job. But of course they think they are branding, design, marketing, video, advertising, experts...

Sorry to tell you man, she probably didnt like your stuff, but I would keep reaching out every two weeks, with more examples of your work. And since you are a proven entity, and that PR people usually wreck all of their relationships, her friend might not come through and you will be tee'd up nicely to get more work. But dont put your eggs in this basket.

Vaun, thanks for the answer.

Maybe she didn't like the work - who knows. I can only say that the magazine was on a topic I have a lot of expertise in, and written a lot about in the past - and that's also the reason why they hired me to write it in the first place.

I also sent her first drafts of all the articles way before the deadline so that she has time to ask me for any amendments if necessary. Based on her emails she was happy with the content - at least she didn't want to have any corrections made.

But anyway - what do you think is the best course of action?

Sending her new stuff doesn't really make much sense in my opinion - I have already written the whole magazine so she knows my work. I think the content I provided was on a high level, so I won't have any "better" stuff in the nearer future.

Should I call her?

Or should I get in touch with the business development guy again and tell him that I'm not getting any answers back from her?

I dont know, most of the time I have found when you provide excellent service and a product as a contractor, and they mysteriously go cold on you, it usually means they have no money, or have someone else waiting in the wings. So she could have very well liked your work, but may have a friends husband who is also a designer lined up to take your spot. Didnt you say the pr person you originally contracted with went on maternity? Being in your spot isnt ideal, but not entirely bad, if they do in fact have someone else, if they fail to deliver, your up next. Maybe sending her stuff is annoying, I hear you, but I would keep the lines open and find other work in the meantime while this is on a slow burner. Keep the BD connection open too, lunch or coffee/drinks works well for getting candid advice.

Vaun, yeah, the PR person I originally contracted with went on maternity. I just for some reason suspect that she didn't like me and maybe talked with the new PR person about me - but maybe that's only paranoia - I don't know.

But yeah, I will definitely try to get other work in the meantime.

The company is based in another city, so it's not that easy to just meet the BD person for a drink. But yeah, I could travel there for a day, it's not really that big of a deal.

But my question is: should I tell the BD guy that the PR person is not answering my emails? Or will that make me look bad?

[Vaun]

(03-15-2014 10:46 AM)Ice Wrote:  

(03-15-2014 10:35 AM)Vaun Wrote:  

(03-15-2014 10:25 AM)Ice Wrote:  

(03-15-2014 09:36 AM)Vaun Wrote:  

Unfortunately she probably didnt like your work, or, she has a friend/vendor/cousin that does what you do and she wants to hire them. PR people are a weird lot, they think they are doing gods work, and that their work is 'earned media', even though they are being paid a stupid retainer. Have often found them ignorant, besides connecting with the press or having them ghost write an article for you, which essentially is their core job. But of course they think they are branding, design, marketing, video, advertising, experts...

Sorry to tell you man, she probably didnt like your stuff, but I would keep reaching out every two weeks, with more examples of your work. And since you are a proven entity, and that PR people usually wreck all of their relationships, her friend might not come through and you will be tee'd up nicely to get more work. But dont put your eggs in this basket.

Vaun, thanks for the answer.

Maybe she didn't like the work - who knows. I can only say that the magazine was on a topic I have a lot of expertise in, and written a lot about in the past - and that's also the reason why they hired me to write it in the first place.

I also sent her first drafts of all the articles way before the deadline so that she has time to ask me for any amendments if necessary. Based on her emails she was happy with the content - at least she didn't want to have any corrections made.

But anyway - what do you think is the best course of action?

Sending her new stuff doesn't really make much sense in my opinion - I have already written the whole magazine so she knows my work. I think the content I provided was on a high level, so I won't have any "better" stuff in the nearer future.

Should I call her?

Or should I get in touch with the business development guy again and tell him that I'm not getting any answers back from her?

I dont know, most of the time I have found when you provide excellent service and a product as a contractor, and they mysteriously go cold on you, it usually means they have no money, or have someone else waiting in the wings. So she could have very well liked your work, but may have a friends husband who is also a designer lined up to take your spot. Didnt you say the pr person you originally contracted with went on maternity? Being in your spot isnt ideal, but not entirely bad, if they do in fact have someone else, if they fail to deliver, your up next. Maybe sending her stuff is annoying, I hear you, but I would keep the lines open and find other work in the meantime while this is on a slow burner. Keep the BD connection open too, lunch or coffee/drinks works well for getting candid advice.

Vaun, yeah, the PR person I originally contracted with went on maternity. I just for some reason suspect that she didn't like me and maybe talked with the new PR person about me - but maybe that's only paranoia - I don't know.

But yeah, I will definitely try to get other work in the meantime.

The company is based in another city, so it's not that easy to just meet the BD person for a drink. But yeah, I could travel there for a day, it's not really that big of a deal.

But my question is: should I tell the BD guy that the PR person is not answering my emails? Or will that make me look bad?

I think thats fine after 3 email and a bit of time, and how close you are with the BD guy.

[Captain Gh]

She's a woman who've been ignoring you. I know this might sound cold but you've got to never contact her again, just like you would do if you were gaming her.

If you keep on contacting her, she's gonna create in her mind the image of a needy guy and women can't stand it, in game and business. I know that as a freelancer you might really need the money, but it is what it is my friend. Hope things work out for you man!!

[Ice]

(03-15-2014 11:00 AM)Captain Gh Wrote:  

She's a woman who've been ignoring you. I know this might sound cold but you've got to never contact her again, just like you would do if you were gaming her.

If you keep on contacting her, she's gonna create in her mind the image of a needy guy and women can't stand it, in game and business. I know that as a freelancer you might really need the money, but it is what it is my friend. Hope things work out for you man!!

Captain Gh,

yeah I think you are absolutely right.

She knows very well that she has been ignoring my emails. It won't help my situation if I keep contacting here - to the contrary I think.

That's why I think it's probably better to speak with the DB person and tell him about it. It just is what it is - I think it's reasonable to bring up the fact that I'm not getting any emails back from her - especially considering the fact the told me that he's open to a further collaboration.

[Ice]

(03-15-2014 10:50 AM)Vaun Wrote:  

(03-15-2014 10:46 AM)Ice Wrote:  

(03-15-2014 10:35 AM)Vaun Wrote:  

[quote] (03-15-2014 10:25 AM)Ice Wrote:  

Should I call her?

Or should I get in touch with the business development guy again and tell him that I'm not getting any answers back from her?

I dont know, most of the time I have found when you provide excellent service and a product as a contractor, and they mysteriously go cold on you, it usually means they have no money, or have someone else waiting in the wings. So she could have very well liked your work, but may have a friends husband who is also a designer lined up to take your spot. Didnt you say the pr person you originally contracted with went on maternity? Being in your spot isnt ideal, but not entirely bad, if they do in fact have someone else, if they fail to deliver, your up next. Maybe sending her stuff is annoying, I hear you, but I would keep the lines open and find other work in the meantime while this is on a slow burner. Keep the BD connection open too, lunch or coffee/drinks works well for getting candid advice.

Vaun, yeah, the PR person I originally contracted with went on maternity. I just for some reason suspect that she didn't like me and maybe talked with the new PR person about me - but maybe that's only paranoia - I don't know.

But yeah, I will definitely try to get other work in the meantime.

The company is based in another city, so it's not that easy to just meet the BD person for a drink. But yeah, I could travel there for a day, it's not really that big of a deal.

But my question is: should I tell the BD guy that the PR person is not answering my emails? Or will that make me look bad?

I think thats fine after 3 email and a bit of time, and how close you are with the BD guy.

Ok cool, thanks for the answer.

Yeah I think I will do that.

[Sombro]

(03-15-2014 10:46 AM)Ice Wrote:  

But my question is: should I tell the BD guy that the PR person is not answering my emails? Or will that make me look bad?

Go to the BD guy. But always frame the problem as the work at hand or the potential work ahead and how it may affect the growth of the business.
Never frame it around personalities involved but the actual tasks in front of you.

Male managers understand this. It's not about "he this, she that" but the actual job at hand.

[Ice]

(03-15-2014 12:37 PM)Sombro Wrote:  

(03-15-2014 10:46 AM)Ice Wrote:  

But my question is: should I tell the BD guy that the PR person is not answering my emails? Or will that make me look bad?

Go to the BD guy. But always frame the problem as the work at hand or the potential work ahead and how it may affect the growth of the business.
Never frame it around personalities involved but the actual tasks in front of you.

Male managers understand this. It's not about "he this, she that" but the actual job at hand.

Sombro,

thanks for the advice.

Yeah cool, I will talk to the BD person. I'll just say that I have not heard back from the PR woman, and since we were talking about a further collaboration, I'd like to inquire about the next steps.

[Sp5]

(03-15-2014 09:32 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

It is not necessarily related to gender. Maybe she is jealous/afraid of her possibly supplanting her and would rather remove you from the picture entirely.

Being afraid and jealous of a quality competitor and not dealing with it straight is related to gender.

[Dr. Howard]

(03-15-2014 12:37 PM)Sombro Wrote:  

(03-15-2014 10:46 AM)Ice Wrote:  

But my question is: should I tell the BD guy that the PR person is not answering my emails? Or will that make me look bad?

Go to the BD guy. But always frame the problem as the work at hand or the potential work ahead and how it may affect the growth of the business.
Never frame it around personalities involved but the actual tasks in front of you.

Male managers understand this. It's not about "he this, she that" but the actual job at hand.

Yes. You want to get the BD relationship to the point where he goes to the female PR manager and says something like "Hey, when can you and Ice get moving on that next buisness letter?"

[Days of Broken Arrows]

Sounds to me like she's trying to get her friends the gig. But cliquishness and cronyism is something I've found men do as well in the business world. They don't realize until it's too late they should have gone with quality over friends.

[Ice]

(03-15-2014 06:23 PM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  

(03-15-2014 12:37 PM)Sombro Wrote:  

(03-15-2014 10:46 AM)Ice Wrote:  

But my question is: should I tell the BD guy that the PR person is not answering my emails? Or will that make me look bad?

Go to the BD guy. But always frame the problem as the work at hand or the potential work ahead and how it may affect the growth of the business.
Never frame it around personalities involved but the actual tasks in front of you.

Male managers understand this. It's not about "he this, she that" but the actual job at hand.

Yes. You want to get the BD relationship to the point where he goes to the female PR manager and says something like "Hey, when can you and Ice get moving on that next buisness letter?"

Dr. Howard,

thanks for the answer.

Yeah, that's definitely what I will try to do.

It's probably best to build a relationship with the BD person and not deal with the PR person too much anyone.

[Ice]

(03-15-2014 06:32 PM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  

Sounds to me like she's trying to get her friends the gig. But cliquishness and cronyism is something I've found men do as well in the business world. They don't realize until it's too late they should have gone with quality over friends.

Yeah that could be - but either way, I'll see if I can circumvent the PR person by interacting with the BD person directly.