[deathtofatties]

I hate to bring up the old Alpha vs. Beta theme, but...

After reading about "Bronies" in an article that a friend sent me, I did a hard face palm, but then I thought about it more...

It seems that with each passing generation of males, more and more of them are embracing their femininity, their "beta-ness", their emasculated travesty of manhood. The men of today, on average, have less testosterone than previous generations had. In the future they'll likely spend more time with video games and porn, as digital experiences become more intense and compelling.


If this trend continues, there will certainly be very wide gap separating Alphas from non-Alphas; and far few Alphas at that.

How will this effect game in the future?

I envision that game will get easier for those men that focus on cultivating their Alphaness, their Masculinity. The men that lift, suit up, take martial arts, etc... The men that are physically Alpha will have it all. That is, all the poon, by a landslide.

[Travesty]

Downside is the average quality of women will mirror the average quality of men.

There is no free lunch.

[deathtofatties]

(03-11-2014 01:25 PM)Travesty444 Wrote:  

Downside is the average quality of women will mirror the average quality of men.

There is no free lunch.

Good point.

Though, It seems like men are becoming more feminine at a faster rate than women are becoming "empowered", short-haired, masculine tumblr hags. Even these less feminine specimens still prefer Alpha males over betas. Sometimes feminism is just thinly-veiled beta shaming. They're so used to living in a world where most of the males that they come across are so uber beta that they end up imposing this stereotype on all males; yet they fail to really criticize the blatantly, severely Alpha types, like outlaw bikers or roided out tough guys.

[The Beast1]

I'm not too worried. More meat and butter for those of us who embrace our masculinity. Less competition for jobs, women, and well respect.

Being an "alpha" male is so much more valuable now especially if you can play the feminized corporate land.

[deathtofatties]

(03-11-2014 03:00 PM)frenchie Wrote:  

I'm not too worried. More meat and butter for those of us who embrace our masculinity. Less competition for jobs, women, and well respect.

Being an "alpha" male is so much more valuable now especially if you can play the feminized corporate land.

That proves my point then. As men become more and more beta, being alpha is valued more and more by women. Alpha/Masculine men are becoming more of a scare resource.

[Patriarch]

Another aspect you have to consider is the westernization of traditional countries. For every Poland or Brazil that is slowly lost to westernization, you have other rapidly developing countries to take their place. Maybe in the not so distant future, guys will be talking about Laos and Namibia like we we talk about Thailand and Russia now. Unfortunately, there are only so many countries in the world, but we should all have a steady supply of quality ass at the expense of the rapidly diminishing "male" population.

[kosko]

You get Toronto...

As mentioned when men go off the cliff of masculinity women go off the cliff just as much.

Toronto is the wasteland it is because men have let women run wild here; the dudes here are just as much to blame as the women. Yeah you can do well but it's a lot of work. There is still a large crop of high status men and the only difference is the women are fucking all of them...all at once.

There isn't some oasis at the end of the tunnel with the crisis of men embracing their inner brony. It's a myth it gets easier when you have less dudes to compete with because the women just get even more choosy and crazed. I'd rather have honest competition versus the bizarro shit you get here currently.

[Veloce]

So an extremely small percentage of males have some weird, fucked up fetish, and we conclude that masculinity is in decline?

I don't buy it.

There have been freaks for millenia.

What I do think is that, like many other things, cultural tribes are becoming more polarized. Rich are getting rich, poor are getting poorer. Guys that might have only displayed minor effeminate touches before are now fully blown out of the closet. Guys that might have had masculine leanings are now glaring assholes.

But masculinity is not in decline. The interest in cigars, sipping spirits, womanizing, motorcycles, martial arts, etc are greater than they've ever been. It's just everything is becoming concentrated in itself.

Edit: to answer the second part of your post, this will change the game in polarizing masculine vs. non masculine men. The most masculine men will attract the most feminine women, that's all.

That's why we should all be careful about getting too caught up in the posts in the Everything Else forum. Yes, there is a huge population of women that are extremely mediocre and become more so with each passing day. The same can be said for men. So don't be those men and don't interact with those women. There's nothing we can do to reverse the trends of society.

On its best days, RVF and ROK are about maintaining a haven and thinktank for masculine men. Let's keep it that way and not become overly concerned with the goings-on of mediocre men and women. We can point and laugh but let's not address it like a serious concern.

Our serious concerns should be maximizing ourselves and representing masculinity as best we can.

[turkishcandy]

I see two possibilities

1) Masculinity will be rarer and rarer until men who are somewhat masculine will be considered as gems and will be treated like celebrities. This will lead to a even bigger monopoly on sexual access to women by an even smaller percentage of men, and the vast majority of the population who are sexless social rejects will cause a decline both socially and in population.

2) Masculinity will be obsolete, those who try to preserve it will be seen as cavemen, creeps, sexists, misogynists, rapists, sex tourists, pigs and you name it. Only the homos and metrosexuals will be approved by the society and we will all be a gender-neutral society.

Guess which possibility is more probable as of today?

[Cyr]

(03-11-2014 07:03 PM)thedude3737 Wrote:  

So an extremely small percentage of males have some weird, fucked up fetish, and we conclude that masculinity is in decline?

I don't buy it.

There have been freaks for millenia.

What I do think is that, like many other things, cultural tribes are becoming more polarized. Rich are getting rich, poor are getting poorer. Guys that might have only displayed minor effeminate touches before are now fully blown out of the closet. Guys that might have had masculine leanings are now glaring assholes.

But masculinity is not in decline. The interest in cigars, sipping spirits, womanizing, motorcycles, martial arts, etc are greater than they've ever been. It's just everything is becoming concentrated in itself.

I really agree with this. You can see the same things in sport and fitness. Many people are unable to do a pressup, whilst athletes (and guys into training) are fitter than ever.

[deathtofatties]

(03-11-2014 07:03 PM)thedude3737 Wrote:  

So an extremely small percentage of males have some weird, fucked up fetish, and we conclude that masculinity is in decline?

I don't buy it.

There have been freaks for millenia.

What I do think is that, like many other things, cultural tribes are becoming more polarized. Rich are getting rich, poor are getting poorer. Guys that might have only displayed minor effeminate touches before are now fully blown out of the closet. Guys that might have had masculine leanings are now glaring assholes.

But masculinity is not in decline. The interest in cigars, sipping spirits, womanizing, motorcycles, martial arts, etc are greater than they've ever been. It's just everything is becoming concentrated in itself.

"Bronies" were just one extreme example. In general, testosterone is in decline in American men, and the average guy is soft these days.

If they are not "Bronies", many western men are Anime/Hentai dorks, or Video Game nerds, or Pokemon fans, Redditers and so on.

[Veloce]

(03-11-2014 07:09 PM)deathtofatties Wrote:  

(03-11-2014 07:03 PM)thedude3737 Wrote:  

So an extremely small percentage of males have some weird, fucked up fetish, and we conclude that masculinity is in decline?

I don't buy it.

There have been freaks for millenia.

What I do think is that, like many other things, cultural tribes are becoming more polarized. Rich are getting rich, poor are getting poorer. Guys that might have only displayed minor effeminate touches before are now fully blown out of the closet. Guys that might have had masculine leanings are now glaring assholes.

But masculinity is not in decline. The interest in cigars, sipping spirits, womanizing, motorcycles, martial arts, etc are greater than they've ever been. It's just everything is becoming concentrated in itself.

"Bronies" were just one extreme example. In general, testosterone is in decline in American men, and the average guy is soft these days.

If they are not "Bronies", many western men are Anime/Hentai dorks, or Video Game nerds, or Pokemon fans, etc...

Okay we can attribute declining testosterone to chemicals in our food/water supply, but what about the assertion that the average guy is soft these days?

There has never been a society where alphas are running rampant, not that I know of. Let's look at this from a biological standpoint:

In any social animal group, there are a certain percentage of alphas, betas, omegas, whatever. You've got scouts on the outskirts, and alphas leading their own group of betas with one super-alpha to rule them all. By definition there can't be too many alphas otherwise the hierarchy collapses in conflict.

Think the Mongolians were all alphas? No. They were successful because they recognized the alpha qualities of Genghis Khan who was persuasive in uniting Mongol tribes. He in turn recognized alpha qualities in others and gave them power. He emphasized the importance of education and literacy and had very structured views of trade, philosophy, and social ethics. Being alpha doesn't just mean being the strongest, it means having the highest wisdom and knowledge on maintaining a successful society.

If young men these days are soft, it's because there is no call to action. There are no villages to pillage, no conquests, no World War, no Depression, there's simply not as many struggles that men are faced to adapt to.

I say, create your own struggles and conflicts. Throw yourselves into situations where you have to painfully adapt. Let other guys be cannon fodder.

One thing's for sure, it won't change a damn thing how women react. If there is one creature that is firmly rooted in millions of years of biological evolution, it's woman.

[Veloce]

(03-11-2014 07:07 PM)Cyr Wrote:  

(03-11-2014 07:03 PM)thedude3737 Wrote:  

So an extremely small percentage of males have some weird, fucked up fetish, and we conclude that masculinity is in decline?

I don't buy it.

There have been freaks for millenia.

What I do think is that, like many other things, cultural tribes are becoming more polarized. Rich are getting rich, poor are getting poorer. Guys that might have only displayed minor effeminate touches before are now fully blown out of the closet. Guys that might have had masculine leanings are now glaring assholes.

But masculinity is not in decline. The interest in cigars, sipping spirits, womanizing, motorcycles, martial arts, etc are greater than they've ever been. It's just everything is becoming concentrated in itself.

I really agree with this. You can see the same things in sport and fitness. Many people are unable to do a pressup, whilst athletes (and guys into training) are fitter than ever.

Ultimate Fighting is the ultimate example of this. You've got greater and great acceptance of effeminate men, the hipster stereotype whose main concern for the day is the correct ratio of foam to espresso in his cappucino, and then you have guys in MMA gyms learning how to kill someone with their bare hands. The contrast is stark.

[MikeCF]

I have a scarce resource (masculine self-possession).

The scarcer that resource becomes, the more valuable I become.

My life has never been better and I don't see thing slowing down until well into my 40s or maybe even 50s.

[Veloce]

In 3 lines Mike just summed up the essence of the thread.

If masculinity is in decline, that means demand goes up.

Be the supply.

[deathtofatties]

(03-11-2014 07:29 PM)thedude3737 Wrote:  

You've got greater and great acceptance of effeminate men, the hipster stereotype whose main concern for the day is the correct ratio of foam to espresso in his cappucino.

(03-11-2014 07:37 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

I have a scarce resource (masculine self-possession).

The scarcer that resource becomes, the more valuable I become.

My life has never been better and I don't see thing slowing down until well into my 40s or maybe even 50s.

amen.

(03-11-2014 07:39 PM)thedude3737 Wrote:  

In 3 lines Mike just summed up the essence of the thread.

If masculinity is in decline, that means demand goes up.

Be the supply.

That's what I'm trying to get at. That's the goal.

[The Lizard of Oz]

A few remarks:

1. Although I can't prove it, I have a strong hunch/educated guess that the decline in testosterone levels over the last few generations is mostly or completely explained by lower lifetime UV exposure due to men spending less time outdoors than before (more office workers/fewer manual workers who work outdoors), and particularly due to the rampant overuse of sunscreen spurred by exaggerated fears of skin cancer.

Once the benefits of moderate sunlight/UV exposure for Vitamin D and testosterone production become more widely understood (and this is already beginning to happen), there will be behavioral changes and I predict that as a result the generational decline in male testosterone levels will be mostly or fully reversed.

2. The emasculation that has been happening in the culture at large is abetted by the extended peacetime we've had since World War II (no wars nearly substantial enough to cause a true nationwide mobilization or threaten the country).

Accordingly, I think it's likely that the current cultural trends will continue for as long as the extended peacetime continues, but will be obliterated by a real, serious war, which is reasonably likely to occur at some point within the next couple of decades.

Barring such a war, the only thing that will substantially reverse these trends will be some radical advances in the interface of medicine, biology and materials science that will cause people to understand, based on incontrovertible evidence, that technological progress is beginning to change their lives for the better to the point of creating differences in kind. If I had to guess, I'd say these advances are farther away in time than a serious war (and indeed, the pressures created by such a war and its aftermath are likely to catalyze and accelerate some of these breakthroughs).

3. Although masked on the one hand by obesity, on the other by excessive indulgence in certain athletics and team sports, and on the third and nastiest hand by the tattoo epidemic, the underlying raw quality of pussy all over the world has never been higher.

The pussy alive today that avoids getting fat and is not destroyed early by inappropriate exercise or branded by tats is much, much sicker and more mind-destroying than any that's ever walked the earth because of the availability of more varied nutrients, excellent dentistry and general wealth and well-being. This is enhanced by the prevalence of blends with truly catastrophic potential for producing female beauty, especially white/hispanic and white/Asian blends.

Because the obesity trend has probably peaked or is close to peaking, the enthusiasm for female team sports in high school and college is waning as injuries multiply, and the prevalence of tattoos is also likely to peak and eventually decline, we are likely to witness in a decade or so a generation of young pussy that will be scary and virtually unbearable to contemplate, and this all over the world. Add to this rapid advances in plastic surgery (fake tits are starting to get pretty sick after many years of trial and error) and the prospects for a player going forward look absurdly and almost embarrassingly bright.

For betas and omegas, on the other hand, the situation is likely to grow increasingly dire as the scandalously luscious pussy around them gives itself over freely to thugs and naturals while shutting out the betas en bloc. This in itself has its saving graces as it will spur radical technological breakthroughs in virtual pornography that are likely to have significant spillover to other areas of technology (by the way, one of the untold stories of the past century is the degree to which the need for more lifelike and effective pornography has catalyzed different kinds of technological progress).

[Thoroughbred]

(03-11-2014 09:12 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

A few remarks:

1. Although I can't prove it, I have a strong hunch/educated guess that the decline in testosterone levels over the last few generations is mostly or completely explained by lower lifetime UV exposure due to men spending less time outdoors than before (more office workers/fewer manual workers who work outdoors), and particularly due to the rampant overuse of sunscreen spurred by exaggerated fears of skin cancer.

Something very similar has been proven:

http://vimeo.com/15346778

Right down to your toothbrushes, replace everything plastic with wood or steel.

[The Lizard of Oz]

Ollave, the effect of estrogen mimicking chemicals that you are referring to is not the one I'm talking about (sunlight/UV exposure). While there is probably some endocrine effect from exposure to certain kinds of plastics, I believe it is relatively small and much less significant than the effect of lifetime UV exposure on endogenous Vitamin D and testosterone production.