[soup]

He brings up a lot of good points. One thing I'd say is that to pull off direct day game with any kind consistency, I think you need to really look super fucking cool. Like you could be famous cool.

I don't believe direct is for the average guy or stealth player. It's not a mundane thing to do, so I think it's more congruent if you already stand out in your presentation.

It's clearly not for the introverted. You have to be an out going person or I believe it will come off as sketchy. There are ways to become more extroverted, so that can be worked on.

Otherwise it's probably going to be an uphill battle.

[LaidNYC]

Just posted this on the newbie forum:

Roosh[/i] makes great arguments against the standalone compliment as an opener.

The best day game guys seem to weave seamlessly between direct and indirect at first. Mention something that caught your interest, it could be a small compliment, but then continue stacking into an assumption or cold read about her.

Running up to girls and saying "you're so beautiful" will get a lot of the "thank you you made my day" type shit taht Roosh describes. Which is why you can't just leave a direct open hanging out there like a matzo ball, you have to follow up with something else for her to respond to.

For utilitarian purposes, dropping in some direct statements is a way to avoid wasting your time. You'll get some quicker blow outs, but you'll also set the man-woman frame early and put yourself on the path to sex. Of course, going up to girls asking if they want to fuck is retarded. That's why some middle ground is often just the ticket.

Direct vs. Indirect is like choosing between peanut butter and jelly.

[Travesty]

Direct day game has only worked for me if my confidence is booming and the girl is very attractive to me.

[Nascimento]

Direct game has worked for me, but at a very, very low success rate.

At soon as I changed to a more indirect style of approach, my results improved.

[XXL]

To even start debating about anything about direct style you guys need to stop associating direct game only with compliment opener in the first place. It's much more than that. Just saying

[Roosh]

(03-10-2014 02:53 PM)XXL Wrote:  

To even start debating about anything about direct style you guys need to stop associating direct game only with compliment opener in the first place. It's much more than that. Just saying

"Direct" is expressing your attraction, interest, or intrigue in her from the very beginning of the approach. If there is another way to do it besides a compliment, I'd like to hear it. If "direct" game is now making comments about her clothing item or making an aloof observation about a trait of hers, well then I'm being robbed because I described how to do that in Day Bang.

[runsonmagic]

I thought the most common direct opener was "hey, you're cute, and I wanted to to come talk to you."

Good Looking Loser opens with this in a lot of his vids.

There is also the "put your number in my phone" direct open.

There is also the "Do you find me attractive?"
She laughs. "Sure."
"Are you single right now?"
"Yes..."
"What's your excuse for not kissing me right now?"
She struggles to say something, go for kiss.

Obviously these all have ways to fail, but nothings foolproof.

EDIT: I'd add although I think the above work, I agree with Roosh's blog post and usually find indirect more natural, as I'm not always just screening for looks. Most of the above just screen to see if she is DTF.

[Saladin]

Agree with Roosh.

In Toronto a lot of lame dudes go direct and say the same exact shit.

Its pathetic.

Alexander RSD also has some of the same arguments for going indirect.. direct game just creates good "fools gold" reactions and you need to be very skilled to make it work.

I can understand direct can work very well in certain situations, especially if you have more value than her and have a strong presence. THC did a very good direct approach I saw in Santo Domingo that he got laid from. He had a very powerful presence in that case which most of us at this stage don't have.

[Stun]

(03-10-2014 03:09 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

(03-10-2014 02:53 PM)XXL Wrote:  

To even start debating about anything about direct style you guys need to stop associating direct game only with compliment opener in the first place. It's much more than that. Just saying

"Direct" is expressing your attraction, interest, or intrigue in her from the very beginning of the approach. If there is another way to do it besides a compliment, I'd like to hear it. If "direct" game is now making comments about her clothing item or making an aloof observation about a trait of hers, well then I'm being robbed because I described how to do that in Day Bang.

"Excuse me, this is really random but I had to come say hi to you." Smile. "I'm Sugar."

She says hi/I'm Jennifer/etc

"Really? You don't look like a Jennifer." Or "you're totally a Jennifer."

Either way it hooks unless she really doesn't want to talk to you.

Field tested no less than >1000 times.


1. Isn't a compliment
2. Gets her attention.
3. The "you don't look like" or "you look like" hooks because it's interesting. Think about it. If you said your name, and someone replied "you don't look like a Roosh" you would want to know why not.

Try it in field

[Captain Gh]

(03-10-2014 04:25 PM)Sugar Wrote:  

(03-10-2014 03:09 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

(03-10-2014 02:53 PM)XXL Wrote:  

To even start debating about anything about direct style you guys need to stop associating direct game only with compliment opener in the first place. It's much more than that. Just saying

"Direct" is expressing your attraction, interest, or intrigue in her from the very beginning of the approach. If there is another way to do it besides a compliment, I'd like to hear it. If "direct" game is now making comments about her clothing item or making an aloof observation about a trait of hers, well then I'm being robbed because I described how to do that in Day Bang.

"Excuse me, this is really random but I had to come say hi to you." Smile. "I'm Sugar."

She says hi/I'm Jennifer/etc

"Really? You don't look like a Jennifer." Or "you're totally a Jennifer."

Either way it hooks unless she really doesn't want to talk to you.

Field tested no less than >1000 times.


1. Isn't a compliment
2. Gets her attention.
3. The "you don't look like" or "you look like" hooks because it's interesting. Think about it. If you said your name, and someone replied "you don't look like a Roosh" you would want to know why not.

Try it in field

Thank you man!! I'll try this one and see if it sticks for me!

[XXL]

(03-10-2014 03:09 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

"Direct" is expressing your attraction, interest, or intrigue in her from the very beginning of the approach. If there is another way to do it besides a compliment, I'd like to hear it. If "direct" game is now making comments about her clothing item or making an aloof observation about a trait of hers, well then I'm being robbed because I described how to do that in Day Bang.

My point is that interest can be stated out loud or subcommunicated in other ways. That's the reason why some so called direct guys use "surprisingly indirect openers that absolutely do not compliment a women, yet they still label their approach direct".

For example, strong eye contact is 100% direct game too. I "used" direct game on the girl I was buying veggies from at farmers market [saying almost nothing to her] only by staring at her seductively with a smirk. I expressed my interest. We locked eyes, she blushed, looked down and giggled quietly. She felt that. That was pure direct game. No compliments.

Another example, breaking the ice with "hey we don't even know each other it can't be like that, who are you?" then carrying on with "it's the way you walk, do you always walk this way? I rarely see girls walking like you are, can you walk FOR ME one more time? I'll give you a cookie.. blablabla..." and carrying the convo forward. It's flirty. The girl will feel you're interested in her without getting "i really like you" type of compliment [she doesn't know whether I find her walk hot or weird or silly, right when shes about to find it out I can easily change the topic and ask her her name etc].

Even teasing a girl about her style or demeanor can be done in a way so that she feels that the guy is flirting with her aka interested in her. Girls sense that.

So yeah it can be blatant compliment, but doesn't have to be. Making comments about her clothing item or making an aloof observation about a trait of hers is good too. The delivery makes it direct or indirect.

As long as you show you're interested in the girl in some way the girl will feel it no matter what you say. Cause your vibe, demeanor, body language is direct and purposeful which makes all the difference.

For example, when you want to play volleyball on the beach and chat up girls near you saying "hey girls come play with us, don't worry we suck at it, it's gonna be fun, you're all slim and bubbly and flexible on first sight, you should be good addition to our teams, just so you know, losers buy beers later haha". That's an interest without classic overt compliments. Girls can feel it. Is it direct? Who cares. It's all gray.

PS. Alex is actually just like that in his overall demeanor [he would say unapologetic] except that he doesn't break the ice with "I really like you" type of openers.

[All or Nothing]

(03-10-2014 01:28 PM)soup Wrote:  

One thing I'd say is that to pull off direct day game with any kind consistency, I think you need to really look super fucking cool. Like you could be famous cool.

Essentially, direct day game works for great looking guys.

If that is so, the question has to be asked. Does direct day game work for great looking guys because it is an effective way to approach or because the girl would have sex with the guy regardless of how he approached?

Sounds like it is because the girl would have sex with the guy whether or not he went direct.

This leads to this being a moot point.

(03-10-2014 04:48 PM)XXL Wrote:  

My point is that interest can be stated out loud or subcommunicated in other ways. That's the reason why some so called direct guys use "surprisingly indirect openers that absolutely do not compliment a women, yet they still label their approach direct".

For example, strong eye contact is 100% direct game too. I "used" direct game on the girl I was buying veggies from at farmers market [saying almost nothing to her] only by staring at her seductively with a smirk. I expressed my interest. We locked eyes, she blushed, looked down and giggled quietly. She felt that. That was pure direct game. No compliments.

Key word here is sub-communicated. Direct approaches are making the girl consciously aware of your desire.

Eye contact, touching, smirking, et al. makes desire known on a subconscious level and are highly useful for indirect approaches. The girl feels like the sexual attraction is there, but is not fully consciously aware of it.

This is also why indirect is a better way to approach than direct. When you make your interest known on a fully conscious level, it is the equivalent of showing your hand in poker. Before the first bang happens, the girl already has the power on her side because you are seeking out sex from her. Making her consciously aware of your sexual desire gives her even more power and now allows her to consciously choose whether or not you get to enjoy the sensation of your dick thrusting through the lubricated walls of her fresh pussy.

The last thing that needs to be made clear here is what conversations with no sexual desire shown at all can be characterized as. Talking about the weather or fashion with a girl while showing absolutely no sexual interest cannot even be called an approach. Rather, it is just another banal conversation mixed in with the daily monotony of life.

[cpred]

Roosh has a point with this. Sure it can be implied that we (as men) have an interest since we are doing the approach but direct leaves out a part of the "game" or strategy of it. As a cold approach going in, an indirect opener just gets things warmed up and can make a difference vs a direct opener. I usually go for the indirect because I have seen many times where others have failed with a direct approach only to get shot down as creeps where an indirect opener can establish attraction because while it just may be banter or just a quick conversation while passing by, it can create a wanting for more since you are not giving her what she wants.

[Giovonny]

Direct day game is a tool. Indirect day game is also a tool.

All styles of game are just tools to help get sex.

1) Choose the tool that best fits the job.

2) Choose the tool that you are comfortable using.

********

Basically, use the style that you prefer.

Direct is a special skill that only a few talented men can pull off. It's higher risk and higher reward

Indirect is safer, easier, and probably slightly more effective for most men.

Do what works for you!

[Tenerife]

I believe that girls need a constant rationalization for going along with your escalation. They need something to tell themselves as you keep pushing the interaction forward.

"Oh, he only approached me because he wanted to know where something is.... he just wants my number because he wants a language partner....we're just going back to his place for a drink...etc."

It's something they can state out loud to have plausible deniability.

It's kind of like how foods are marketed as "healthy foods" when they are really just junk food. A woman walks through a grocery store, she knows she needs to lose weight, but she also wants to keep receiving the pleasure of high calorie meals.

She sees a "gluten free muffin" and the labeling and packaging gives an excuse for her cerebrum so she can pick up the item. It's a convenient lie she tells herself to ease any guilt and make it easier to get the emotional pleasure that she craves.

Indirect approaching, and "indirect escalation" are important because while, yes, you can SUBCOMMUNICATE interest, her prefrontal cortex needs plausible deniability, it needs a rationalization....you need to give her hamster something to spin on so that you can get her into your place.

With a really slutty girl, not necessary, but with a girl who has a stronger "good girl" identity, indirect is the way to go.

[Kish]

Direct day game is a bad idea if:

You are approaching attractive non black women(especially Anglo White American women ).
In a public place of business in a western country.

[soup]

All or nothing- it does just have to bel poking handsome. You can communicate value in other ways too. I think you need to show up with a lot confidence and charisma and frame

[YossariansRight]

(03-10-2014 04:25 PM)Sugar Wrote:  

(03-10-2014 03:09 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

(03-10-2014 02:53 PM)XXL Wrote:  

To even start debating about anything about direct style you guys need to stop associating direct game only with compliment opener in the first place. It's much more than that. Just saying

"Direct" is expressing your attraction, interest, or intrigue in her from the very beginning of the approach. If there is another way to do it besides a compliment, I'd like to hear it. If "direct" game is now making comments about her clothing item or making an aloof observation about a trait of hers, well then I'm being robbed because I described how to do that in Day Bang.

"Excuse me, this is really random but I had to come say hi to you." Smile. "I'm Sugar."

She says hi/I'm Jennifer/etc

"Really? You don't look like a Jennifer." Or "you're totally a Jennifer."

Either way it hooks unless she really doesn't want to talk to you.

Field tested no less than >1000 times.


1. Isn't a compliment
2. Gets her attention.
3. The "you don't look like" or "you look like" hooks because it's interesting. Think about it. If you said your name, and someone replied "you don't look like a Roosh" you would want to know why not.

Try it in field

Love it - will try. Thanks!

[Vaun]

Over 150 approaches in 10 months and never once used a direct approach. Now I am much more deliberate, and selective, but I have come up with a slew of openers that have nothing to do with compliments or pedestaling, just simple innocuous ways to open conversations.

[unbowed]

(03-10-2014 05:34 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

Direct day game is a tool. Indirect day game is also a tool.

All styles of game are just tools to help get sex.

1) Choose the tool that best fits the job.

2) Choose the tool that you are comfortable using.

********

Basically, use the style that you prefer.

Direct is a special skill that only a few talented men can pull off. It's higher risk and higher reward

Indirect is safer, easier, and probably slightly more effective for most men.

Do what works for you!

This. The London style direct game is my tool on the streets. I don't have the luxury of timing every street approach and making sure there's not a pet shop behind me (it's happened twice).

If I'm at the grocery store, train or coffee shop or other low key spot, the "Excuse me... roll Day Bang audio" gets things going fine.

I've been dabbling with direct for 8 months now. Direct day game hurts. And it hurts because you're putting yourself on the line. Although I will say, on a nice day with some loosened up vibe, i will get in the zone and literally get energized by rejection. There are little attraction "hacks" that will get girls to look at you which will give you a better in with direct.

Indirect is a great default if you just happen to be around an attractive girl but are feeling quite low energy and the social calibration is high stakes (indoor venues especially).

Direct is intense and unless you can establish a solid convo and keep moving forward, it will fizzle out easily. Yes there is "state" involved but it doesn't have to be this roll into the club state. You can't half-ass it though, you need to be "on" so you can devote all your energy into the set.

(03-10-2014 06:59 PM)Kish Wrote:  

Direct day game is a bad idea if:

You are approaching attractive non black women(especially Anglo White American women ).
In a public place of business in a western country.

You have a point. In my experience, I don't find Anglo-American women fun to day game, because not only do they generally see pedestalization, but they have so little to work with compliment-wise besides a pretty face/body, so it's hard to come up with a genuine, unique compliment. They want to be admired for their careers and wit, how the hell do you compliment and tease that within 15 seconds on the street as she's power walking to Starbucks? And their smartphones and speed lunches don't really allow for a nice flowing ramble. Next.

I'm wondering if Roosh practiced direct in Poland or somewhere else and came up with these 4 points. Either way, my best results for direct/indirect have been with foreign women. Maybe it's my subconscious filtering mechanism. Who knows...

All I know is if I see a hot girl walking by, I'm not going to wait until I'm famous, have the right social circle or look. Balls to the wall, I'm going in and crashing for the 1000th time if I have to.

I got a lot out of Roosh's day game model, but there's some situations where I find it's too slow and in a hustle and bustle city, you gotta make moves.

[Wargasm]

All openers can be placed somewhere on a continuum from direct to indirect.

The most direct you can go is walking up to her with an erection and start taking off her clothes immediately. (possibly rape?)

The most indirect is some version of long-term beta orbiting, like getting a job where she works and asking her how to re-fill the pepper shakers.

Until they're is an unambiguous, agreed upon definition of a "direct opener" this will be argued about as much as what a 10 looks like. Somebody should start a thread, "What do you guys consider to be direct?"

[soup]

I think it's good to play them by using contrasts..

Maybe your body language is direct, but your words aren't or visa versa.

[Flint]

I did quite well with direct approaching during the day. It takes more guts at the beginning to spit such lines but I found it to be quite powerful, at least in a German cultural context. Only four or five times I received stonecold rejections, in most other cases the targets seemed to be totally flabbergasted and the reactions were positive and pleasant even when they told me they had boyfriends.

I think, it is crucial that you are at least equally or better dressed than your target. By using indirect game, you have more time to let your personality unfold during the conversation, thus compensate for the fact that you are possibly not overly well-groomed in that present situation. With direct game, you get an immediate response and you should present yourself in the best light.

Also, it depends very much on the cultural environments you find yourself in. If it's a country where girls usually don't get hit on during the day and where guys tend to be very shy (Germany, Netherlands, Scandinavia, Finland) the results will probably better than in flirtfriendly places where dudes approach more aggressively (Italy, Latin America, many parts of the US).

Cajun speaks about this from 11:13 on. I usually do it along those lines but with a less apologetic and more determined demeanor:

[eradicator]

(03-10-2014 04:25 PM)Sugar Wrote:  

(03-10-2014 03:09 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

(03-10-2014 02:53 PM)XXL Wrote:  

To even start debating about anything about direct style you guys need to stop associating direct game only with compliment opener in the first place. It's much more than that. Just saying

"Direct" is expressing your attraction, interest, or intrigue in her from the very beginning of the approach. If there is another way to do it besides a compliment, I'd like to hear it. If "direct" game is now making comments about her clothing item or making an aloof observation about a trait of hers, well then I'm being robbed because I described how to do that in Day Bang.

"Excuse me, this is really random but I had to come say hi to you." Smile. "I'm Sugar."

She says hi/I'm Jennifer/etc

"Really? You don't look like a Jennifer." Or "you're totally a Jennifer."

Either way it hooks unless she really doesn't want to talk to you.

Field tested no less than >1000 times.


1. Isn't a compliment
2. Gets her attention.
3. The "you don't look like" or "you look like" hooks because it's interesting. Think about it. If you said your name, and someone replied "you don't look like a Roosh" you would want to know why not.

Try it in field

I could see this working fantastic, especially if you are in a really white town like say, santa barbara, that has zillions of jennifers, and you say "yeah you look like a jennifer" or "you don't look like a jennifer". I will test this out.

[XXL]

As a sidenote, remember who "invented" direct game as an overtly method of stating your sexual interest upfront. It was a bunch of nerds [guys who see everything as an algorithm] who got tired of messing up their chess game type of interactions and decided to tell girls what's up just out of their frustration. It worked a few times and it went from there.

But if you actually look at this pure direct game notion from the distance it seems so weird. Like, how socially inept someone has to be to follow the method of breaking the ice with a compliment every time. And what do they expect, that a girl will fall in love in 5 seconds and offer them to go fuck? It's sooo whack hahahaha. Can you imagine hanging out with a dude like that? Horrible.

I perfectly understand Roosh's dislike of pua version of direct method. It suuuuuuuux.

It's when you mix it all together, interest, conversation skills, flirting, etc, and spray that mixture at the girl then it's great. That's what competent guys do. I've hung out with cool attractive guys who gamed all day all night and none of started with telling compliments right off the bat. Even when they did something similar it was more like a joke, something like "omg you look so cute and healthy lets make beautiful babies together" hahaha.

Personally I've always understood "direct" style as stepping up to the girl, expressing interest, showing your intentions and viewed overt compliments as just little part of the whole picture.