[Basil Ransom]

Good Looking Loser just published this article: http://www.goodlookingloser.com/2014/02/...club-game/

Seems like he disabled copy pasting the text on his website, but here's the cliffs: high end clubbing has a terrible return on investment in terms of time, wear and tear and money, because the top tier girls there have their whole night planned out, with preparty and postparty, and are hanging with a group of friends the entire time. You swooping in as a stranger, to peel a girl off her group has terrible odds. And we all know how worthless phone numbers are. Read the article.

I'm curious as to what other people here think. I don't do clubbing much. From what I've seen, with low-end clubbing, girls are less insular, but also uglier and there are fewer white girls to be had. For some guys, low end clubbing is probably solid for getting 6s and 7s. High or low, it's often loud as fuck everywhere except the smoking section.

From what GLL describes, clubbing, or at least high end clubbing, isn't worth it unless you're rolling with the crews of hot girls at either the pre or post party, preferably both. The consistent wings I've had, like me, had an equally poor ROI on high end clubbing in LA (I hear it's much better in Vegas though, as well as outside the US). We weren't rolling into the preparties either...

I know McQueen here does well with it, and McQueen's got years of exposure and mad connections, and he does it full time - kind of hard to match that if you're just another 9 to 5er not dialed into the Hollywood/high end scene. So until you are dialed into the scene, high end club game has a poor ROI. Plus it costs easily $50, usually at least $100 a pop, and that's without bottle service. If you want to drink and don't live nearby, etc.

GLL's observations are based on LA, so things may differ from one city to another.

The way GLL puts it, it's like high end nightclubs are like strip clubs where you pay more and see less, and are just as likely to fuck the girls up on display.

[soup]

(02-17-2014 12:41 PM)Basil Ransom Wrote:  

Good Looking Loser just published this article: http://www.goodlookingloser.com/2014/02/...club-game/

Seems like he disabled copy pasting the text on his website, but here's the cliffs: high end clubbing has a terrible return on investment in terms of time, wear and tear and money, because the top tier girls there have their whole night planned out, with preparty and postparty, and are hanging with a group of friends the entire time. You swooping in as a stranger, to peel a girl off her group has terrible odds. And we all know how worthless phone numbers are. Read the article.

I'm curious as to what other people here think. I don't do clubbing much. From what I've seen, with low-end clubbing, girls are less insular, but also uglier and there are fewer white girls to be had. For some guys, low end clubbing is probably solid for getting 6s and 7s. High or low, it's often loud as fuck everywhere except the smoking section.

From what GLL describes, clubbing, or at least high end clubbing, isn't worth it unless you're rolling with the crews of hot girls at either the pre or post party, preferably both. The wings I've had, like me, had an equally poor ROI on high end clubbing in LA (I hear it's much better in Vegas though).

I know McQueen here does well with it, and McQueen's got years of exposure and mad connections, and he does it full time - kind of hard to match that if you're just another 9 to 5er not dialed into the Hollywood/high end scene. So until you are dialed into the scene, high end club game has a poor ROI.

GLL's observations are based on LA, so things may differ from one city to another.

It's all about connections. That's why they are "clubs" in the first place. The whole environment is rigged. Promoters give kickbacks to modeling agencies and the models HAVE to hang at their tables and not stray if they want to get modelling gigs.

If you don't have connections, I think the best thing to do is go to a place where the girls are more free to dance- like more of a party vibe.

There are tricks to going in and "lording" a club from scratch that involve befriending some dudes who are running bottles and bringing girls to their tables.

I've never paid for a bottle in my life- anyone who does it is bluepill/patsy. I only go to clubs where my friend are promoting so I can support them. Either that, or I've been paid to host.

It sounds like the LA club scene is essentially about pregaming for the afterparty. Either that or don't go to the "douchey" clubs and try to find more "hipster" dance club/parties where the girls are more accessible without connections.

McQueen is the resident expert her on all this.. I believe distant light is as well. I'd be curious to hear what they have to say.

[The Beast1]

That's why social circle game is more important nowadays. Cold approaching club game is horrible. Make friends and enjoy social connections. much easier than cold approaching.

[Basil Ransom]

(02-17-2014 12:49 PM)soup Wrote:  

It sounds like the LA club scene is essentially about pregaming for the afterparty. Either that or don't go to the "douchey" clubs and try to find more "hipster" dance club/parties where the girls are more accessible without connections.

Yeah, as I said, the more fun, low-medium end places can be good for approaching. Hipster, hip hop, EDM probably. It just won't match the talent of the high end spots. Talent don't mean shit if you can't touch it though - some guys get a thrill out of just being in the same room as hot girls. I don't.

And yeah, clubbing seems like a scam for the 80-90% of the people paying for it. Hell, unless you like drinking, going out to bars is a terrible bet for most men because their game and swag is too terrible to get results. I always say, if all the dudes who never get laid from going out at night would stay home, nightlife would be incredible.

[WestIndianArchie]

Not been my experience at all.

But he seems to be going after the Blake Lively wannabes, and chicks that get profiled on The Dirty. Basically Hollywood bitches.

To me, those kinds of chicks are top tier of the club scene in.a social sense, but not always the best looking chicks at a venue.

Going out every night for a couple of years, sober, made me aware of and part of the party crowd. Going deeper in that game, the pre parties and after hours spots only requires a bit of industry cred or drugs. It's not that hard honestly provided you bring something if value.

But go out long enough, and the random new unaffiliated chicks, who are just as hot as the miniskirt mafia come out often enough that you can pawn your social proof in for some new pussy credits. That's why you go out all the time. The scene is small, but the number of hot bitches is not.

This goes back to "old" pickup knowledge.

Lock the spot down

Build a rotation of pregame, clubs and bars, post game spots

Use false familiarity to develop real connections

It's fitting that GLL was doing his dirt in 08/09, nearly a decade after the LA scene spawned the community, after Brad P talked about the scene in nyc and party girls.

Cats should really do their homework.

WIA

[Aliblahba]

Club game started dying off the in late 90's and was completely cooked last decade. The ROI is shit now compared to smaller venues, daygame, and social circles. It's a lot easier to get a smaller place on lockdown compared to a big club.

[jariel]

[Aliblahba]

I feel bad for the young cats here that didn't get to see the good years of night club game. I always hated the scene, but back in the day is was simply a necessary evil if you wanted to pull a SNL. There was a "club" in my hometown, and was first stop on my list when swinging through on leave. This was before social media and smartphones and dating sites. Pipelining didn't exist and if you wanted puss, you had to shoot from the hip.

Other memorable venues included The Library in Tallahassee, Club Kiss on Hollywood Blvd, Cowboy Boogie off I-5, and some club in Irvine that had mini beer pictures, pool tables and 3 large rooms. All these places were boss, and at least one of us would get approached by a cute girls. After that it was easy to network through the sororities, as chicks love matchmaking. We only hit the clubs to pull strange, or add another to the rotation. Those were the days.

[DVY]

I still hit the clubs on a semi-regular basis. I came to LA about 1.5 years ago and really struggled for 6-8 months. Door drama, girl drama, logistical drama, car drama, venue issues, wingman issues. You name it, I've had those problems.

Now, its a non-issue. I murder the "club-scene". Summer-time, I logged an insane amount of hours running around Hollywood (sometimes w/McQ or other buddies, and sometimes solo). I was hitting right around 40-50% ONS during the summer and at least 3-5 #s per night. McQ can vouch that these girls are almost always hot (7+). Often McQ tells me "God-damm, that bitch is bad."


Winter-time, ONS have gone down to almost zero, but I still get a bunch of #s from hot girls. This weekend I got 2 solid #s, 2 maybes, and 2 throw-aways. Pretty decent.

When you know the door guys, bouncers, and promoters, life becomes a lot easier i.e. this weekend I came to sound at 11pm. 5 guys 2 girls. Chat w/the manager. He opens the ropes and lets me skip a 30+ min line. Guys still payed cover. I greased him 20 buxs on the way out of the club. Easy...

Efficient ways to get in the scene-
1) Money- Grease them and just be cool about it. I usually keep it to 20 buxs for head doorman (thanks G) or bouncer who take care of me.
2) Drugs- Most of these cats do lots of drugs. Its a pretty decadent hedonistic bunch. I smoke weed w/EVERYBODY. Hell, Ive walked up unto random promoters table's and started rolling a joint. Weed makes friends.
3) Be Normal- Most of these party people deal w/psychotic, crazy bitches and ego-driven "ballers". Normal goes a long way.
3a) Don't be cheap- If your promoter gets you in and gives you free drinks, throw him a tip. I have a buddy who lets me skip lines, not pay cover, drink for free. I try to grease him 40 buxs every time. He refuses it on the regular. Holiday season, I gifted him a 100 dollar costco card. Dude hits me up ALL THE TIME to come out.

100 dollar club nights are rare. Usually I am around 40-50/night for the club, and a light dinner. I get comped almost everywhere I go now. Bartender comps me sake at katsuya, other bars give me BOGO, promoters let me skip lines (and sometimes comp me), free drink tickets, free tables to bring girls back to.

It takes time to build relationships, but thats why its so impressive to have these perks. Don't wish it was easier, wish you were better.

[runsonmagic]

This is coming from someone who doesn't run club game, so grain of salt, but...

In the words of Jeffy Allen, "none of that shit matters for winners."

In every environment in the world, there is someone getting laid. Once you tailor your game to a particular environment, you'll get laid there too.

In my case, I have high verbal game, a chill vibe, and am good at escalating and isolating. My opening is a bit weaker and I'm not high energy. My game is well suited to day game, casual settings, and online. If I wanted to tailor it for clubs, I'd have to pump my energy up and spend enough time in that world to get connected and get comfortable. It could be done, and I'll probably explore it more at some point, but right now it's a low priority, and my rotation stays full by other methods.

That said, working an area you're not good at can be helpful. Part of the reason people cold approach in clubs is because it IS one of the hardest ways to get laid. If you can do that, you'll be fearless in other scenarios. For this reason, I actually do drills and deliberately practice things I'm not good at. My opening is still not as strong as my closing, but holy shit has it gotten better since I started focusing on it.

TLR: tailor your game to the environment, or chose the environment that fits your game.

[Basil Ransom]

(02-17-2014 04:12 PM)DVY Wrote:  

I still hit the clubs on a semi-regular basis. I came to LA about 1.5 years ago and really struggled for 6-8 months. Door drama, girl drama, logistical drama, car drama, venue issues, wingman issues. You name it, I've had those problems.

Now, its a non-issue. I murder the "club-scene". Summer-time, I logged an insane amount of hours running around Hollywood (sometimes w/McQ or other buddies, and sometimes solo). I was hitting right around 40-50% ONS during the summer and at least 3-5 #s per night. McQ can vouch that these girls are almost always hot (7+). Often McQ tells me "God-damm, that bitch is bad."

Thanks for the breakdown. I think a big part of it is that the upfront 'investment' into getting consistent results from nightlife is high. It's like if you're making $100k a year and then you get a chance to make double or triple that potentially, but you've got to make $30k for the first year and it's not really clear you'll get to that $200k or $300k payday. A lot of people will just be like fuck it, I'm going back to my old digs. That's how I feel about nightclubs - I do it occasionally to varying success and then say fuck it, I'm going back to the hipster bars where I get a certain level of success and can operate more easily (though I'm cool with the smoking section in clubs).

Roosh said somewhere that in order to get success with girls, you have to practice a certain amount regularly, eg approach five girls a week. If you approach one girl a week or less, you're never going to get the momentum and experience to progress.

I did think of DVY when writing this post, because outside of McQueen, he may be the only guy I've met off the forum who likes LA clubbing a lot. He's also a higher energy guy.

[DVY]

This weekend, smoked a J w/this chick at the club. She gave me her # (and name/ artist name). I am more partial towards asian girls, but this is the caliber of chick I go for.

Czech girl. Pretty cool.

This is the Japanese girl (look-alike) whose # I got as well.



Her GF looked like this. Straight Japanese tourist FOB



My wing Cap7 saw both of this go down.

[HankRearden]

(02-17-2014 04:12 PM)DVY Wrote:  

I still hit the clubs on a semi-regular basis. I came to LA about 1.5 years ago and really struggled for 6-8 months. Door drama, girl drama, logistical drama, car drama, venue issues, wingman issues. You name it, I've had those problems.

Now, its a non-issue. I murder the "club-scene". Summer-time, I logged an insane amount of hours running around Hollywood (sometimes w/McQ or other buddies, and sometimes solo). I was hitting right around 40-50% ONS during the summer and at least 3-5 #s per night. McQ can vouch that these girls are almost always hot (7+). Often McQ tells me "God-damm, that bitch is bad."


Winter-time, ONS have gone down to almost zero, but I still get a bunch of #s from hot girls. This weekend I got 2 solid #s, 2 maybes, and 2 throw-aways. Pretty decent.

When you know the door guys, bouncers, and promoters, life becomes a lot easier i.e. this weekend I came to sound at 11pm. 5 guys 2 girls. Chat w/the manager. He opens the ropes and lets me skip a 30+ min line. Guys still payed cover. I greased him 20 buxs on the way out of the club. Easy...

Efficient ways to get in the scene-
1) Money- Grease them and just be cool about it. I usually keep it to 20 buxs for head doorman (thanks G) or bouncer who take care of me.
2) Drugs- Most of these cats do lots of drugs. Its a pretty decadent hedonistic bunch. I smoke weed w/EVERYBODY. Hell, Ive walked up unto random promoters table's and started rolling a joint. Weed makes friends.
3) Be Normal- Most of these party people deal w/psychotic, crazy bitches and ego-driven "ballers". Normal goes a long way.
3a) Don't be cheap- If your promoter gets you in and gives you free drinks, throw him a tip. I have a buddy who lets me skip lines, not pay cover, drink for free. I try to grease him 40 buxs every time. He refuses it on the regular. Holiday season, I gifted him a 100 dollar costco card. Dude hits me up ALL THE TIME to come out.

100 dollar club nights are rare. Usually I am around 40-50/night for the club, and a light dinner. I get comped almost everywhere I go now. Bartender comps me sake at katsuya, other bars give me BOGO, promoters let me skip lines (and sometimes comp me), free drink tickets, free tables to bring girls back to.

It takes time to build relationships, but thats why its so impressive to have these perks. Don't wish it was easier, wish you were better.

Really interesting to read this, thanks for posting that.

My worry is that I really dislike going to the same places over and over again. If I lived in LA - I live in Toronto and am moving to London so they're probably comparable on some level - I would probably want to explore the city and take advantage of LA's variety. I guess what you're saying is that you explored for a bit but once you found good places you stuck to them and amplified your success rates?

Greasing guys some money is interesting as well. It reminds me of the mantra that one needs to spend money to make money. I imagine one would have to tip often, and substantially to start getting free drinks at a bar, right? Similarly, I guess the challenge is meeting these promoters and positioning yourself accordingly. Although I love clubbing and do my most damage there, I'm currently in more of a university scene where free drinks don't really exist, club lines aren't really an issue, and girls are super friendly and approachable.

[TheMaskAndRose]

I only go to clubs when my friends or I are promoting. They're not terrible even without connections though, I always get SOMETHING...some numbers, some make outs, some solid leads to follow up on or the occasional SNL.

Really just have to do your own thing and not really give a fuck about what anyone else is doing.

[jariel]

Just to add on to my original post, I enjoy club game.

To win in it, you actually have to go out a lot.

GLL is on point, but I'd say In LA, the pre-party/after-party scene is more prevalent because the clubs close at 2, you don't have that same scene here in Miami where the clubs close at 5 or whenever the hell they choose to, e.g. places like Space.

I would say what we have here isn't pre-party/after-party, but a propensity for people to go out in mixed groups.

So while you have a lot of talent in the clubs, most of it is not available to you before you walk in the door, which I think is the point he was trying to make, and it's spot on.

I think I posted in another thread, this is common for what you'll see in clubs here:

[Christian McQueen]

Let's take the statement that "cold approaching in clubs for the average guy can be completely inefficient" that GLL tweeted me today and break it down:

1. Without work, no one can grow. Telling people that club game doesn't work or is ineffective, is like telling someone it's impossible for them to get stronger in the gym and put on mass without steroids. It's simply bullshit.

It takes work to hit the club 2-3x a week and become great at club game, but it's very possible, when a cat decides to put in effort.

The greater the challenge, the sweeter the reward and show me any player with any real skills and they can roll out solo to clubs and pull without knowing a soul. Still average? Get better. Go out more. Approach until you have to replace your dress shoes every couple of months.

2. Relying on social circles to get you laid in the club, is like relying on training wheels and then wondering why you keep falling off the bike. Of course, it's great to get in the promoter circles and the 'party scene', but what happens when the party 'scene' you're a part of is no longer cool?

What happens when your buddy promoter gets blacklisted and has no pull?

What happens when you piss off one of the leaders of the party 'scene' by fucking a girl he had his eye on, and you're ex-communicated from the 'cool group'.

What happens when you move to a different city for a new job and know NO ONE. Do you really think you'll jump right into the 'party scene'?

Learn to be an island with your game and your skills in nightlife, so YOU always dictate your success.

Don't be a leech and rely on other people in order to get laid and pull from the club.

Be a lion and build your own swagger and club game, then you can bring something to the table when you get into the party 'scene'. I can't stand anything worse than leeches who want to be a part of the club scene and provide ZERO value, asking for free drinks, asking "where's the bitches at?" and being a general nuisance, instead of contributing to the group.

To wrap this up bluntly: If you can't pick up a girl on your own in the club, then your game is what is suffering, not the 'bitches tudes in the club', not the 'asshole doorman', and not the 'cunty list girl'. You simply haven't gotten your game to the level it needs to be.

Club game is very much alive and well, and if you don't understand how that's possible, you either have not been exposed to it, or simply have not improved your game to the level it needs to be.

The hottest chicks are in the club, what makes you think you can spit average game or bring nothing to the table and expect them to bend over the vip rope to get fucked by you?

Approaching is a skill that can be LEARNED, so don't be a pussy thinking it's impossible due to the music, her friends, or cuz you're not in the cool group, because the last time I checked that's what GAME is all about: combating external blocks and still succeeding by pulling her.

Carry on.

[runsonmagic]

(02-17-2014 11:16 PM)Christian McQueen Wrote:  

Learn to be an island with your game and your skills in nightlife, so YOU always dictate your success.

^This.

McQueen I'm curious - how different would you say club game is from cold approach day game, or even bars/college parties?

I live close to a college campus, so I haven't had build the social muscles someone working in the LA/Vegas club scene like yourself has. I'm curious what it would take to develop that or move from lower key venues into clubs.

[soup]

(02-17-2014 11:16 PM)Christian McQueen Wrote:  

Let's take the statement that "cold approaching in clubs for the average guy can be completely inefficient" that GLL tweeted me today and break it down:

1. Without work, no one can grow. Telling people that club game doesn't work or is ineffective, is like telling someone it's impossible for them to get stronger in the gym and put on mass without steroids. It's simply bullshit.

It takes work to hit the club 2-3x a week and become great at club game, but it's very possible, when a cat decides to put in effort.

The greater the challenge, the sweeter the reward and show me any player with any real skills and they can roll out solo to clubs and pull without knowing a soul. Still average? Get better. Go out more. Approach until you have to replace your dress shoes every couple of months.

2. Relying on social circles to get you laid in the club, is like relying on training wheels and then wondering why you keep falling off the bike. Of course, it's great to get in the promoter circles and the 'party scene', but what happens when the party 'scene' you're a part of is no longer cool?

What happens when your buddy promoter gets blacklisted and has no pull?

What happens when you piss off one of the leaders of the party 'scene' by fucking a girl he had his eye on, and you're ex-communicated from the 'cool group'.

What happens when you move to a different city for a new job and know NO ONE. Do you really think you'll jump right into the 'party scene'?

Learn to be an island with your game and your skills in nightlife, so YOU always dictate your success.

Don't be a leech and rely on other people in order to get laid and pull from the club.

Be a lion and build your own swagger and club game, then you can bring something to the table when you get into the party 'scene'. I can't stand anything worse than leeches who want to be a part of the club scene and provide ZERO value, asking for free drinks, asking "where's the bitches at?" and being a general nuisance, instead of contributing to the group.

To wrap this up bluntly: If you can't pick up a girl on your own in the club, then your game is what is suffering, not the 'bitches tudes in the club', not the 'asshole doorman', and not the 'cunty list girl'. You simply haven't gotten your game to the level it needs to be.

Club game is very much alive and well, and if you don't understand how that's possible, you either have not been exposed to it, or simply have not improved your game to the level it needs to be.

The hottest chicks are in the club, what makes you think you can spit average game or bring nothing to the table and expect them to bend over the vip rope to get fucked by you?

Approaching is a skill that can be LEARNED, so don't be a pussy thinking it's impossible due to the music, her friends, or cuz you're not in the cool group, because the last time I checked that's what GAME is all about: combating external blocks and still succeeding by pulling her.

Carry on.

Congrats on 100 rep points.

That's some serious truth right there. I actually felt like I had less freedom when I was throwing my party because I couldn't burn or make any mistakes with the venue or the girls I was working with or the girls coming to my party. I felt like I had to be a complete king, wise and powerful and above drama.

The only time it worked directly was when one of our DJs, a girl who is also a gogo at a very big venue in NYC, fucked me because she wanted to get a regular gig as a DJ at my party.

She was like 19 with a nice tight little body and big eyes..

You have to be cool as ice to be able to do what McQueen is doing consistently and long term without getting into all the kinds of trouble with people and the venue etc.

The clubs scene is not static- clubs burn out, relationships with owners and managers sower all the time- I know promoters who have had the managers turn on them over money disputes and had the full force of the security beat them into the emergency room.

You are always alone, even amongst friends.

[Christian McQueen]

"You have to cool as ice to be able to do what McQueen is doing consistently and long term without getting into all the kinds of trouble with people and the venue etc."

Thanks.

And trust me you will get burned. I have. I've had promoting contracts canceled, been blacklisted for a few months, been the King of The Social Circle and overnight been back to 'nothing', been stiffed THOUSANDS of dollars on one-offs, etc etc. Not to mention, La is the most two-faced city and who is cool with you today, may act like they don't even know you the next night.

Shit happens and nightlife is a constant shit show where only the lions stand tall over time.

Roll with the punches, create your own Game, network, make friends with owners, promoters etc, but remember at the end of the day, You Are An Island.

[CaP7]

Social circles in clubs? I don't get that at all. Opportunities are everywhere.

There's always some girl that gets left out. A third wheel. 3 girls come together and two of them meet guys. They want to go to the dance floor. Bam! Your club-experienced radar comes to life, recognizing the situation, you stand next to her and say, "What's up? What's your name?" Pretty much all my ONS went along these lines. Girls hate each other and are constantly trying to one-up their own friends. Use it to your advantage.

My favorite story was the time I picked up a girl at 2:15am in Gaslamp, San Diego (outside of On Broadway). She was squatting down on the sidewalk, crying. I picked her up, cracked a couple of jokes, and told her I was taking care of her tonight. I definitely took care of her... Point is, clubs are a shit show. They are not a "perfectly organized group effort" as you would think. Girls have different motives. It's up to you to figure out which girls have the motives that you want.

I used to live 6 short blocks from Gaslamp in San Diego. On Tues-Weds nights at about 9:30pm, I would walk a lap past all the hot spots and just b.s. with the door guys. Eventually they would recognize me and I became known on a first name basis with 3-4 of them. Sure enough, come Friday-Saturday night, I started to be able to walk right past lines, no cover on crowded nights.

It took about a month to accomplish this. It's not hard if you have LOCAL access. If you live 10 miles away, then you're going to have to do it through tipping well, PLUS, being a solid guy that people like.

Yeah, there's a lot of B.S. But isn't that what makes it fun and entertaining?

[Christian McQueen]

(02-18-2014 12:14 AM)runsonmagic Wrote:  

(02-17-2014 11:16 PM)Christian McQueen Wrote:  

Learn to be an island with your game and your skills in nightlife, so YOU always dictate your success.

^This.

McQueen I'm curious - how different would you say club game is from cold approach day game, or even bars/college parties?

I live close to a college campus, so I haven't had build the social muscles someone working in the LA/Vegas club scene like yourself has. I'm curious what it would take to develop that or move from lower key venues into clubs.

I'll do a post on this soon.

[AneroidOcean]

(02-17-2014 11:16 PM)Christian McQueen Wrote:  

Don't be a leech and rely on other people in order to get laid and pull from the club.

Be a lion and build your own swagger and club game, then you can bring something to the table when you get into the party 'scene'. I can't stand anything worse than leeches who want to be a part of the club scene and provide ZERO value, asking for free drinks, asking "where's the bitches at?" and being a general nuisance, instead of contributing to the group.

To wrap this up bluntly: If you can't pick up a girl on your own in the club, [b]then your game is what is suffering, not the 'bitches tudes in the club', not the 'asshole doorman', and not the 'cunty list girl'. You simply haven't gotten your game to the level it needs to be.[/b]

Yes, you can't expect to show up somewhere with a reasonable amount of high value people and not be willing to give value or at least LACK the self-entitled attitude. Doesn't mean you have to grovel, but the guys that complain about the asshole doorman or the cunty female bartender are the same as the girls who complain that it's a double-standard for a girl to be called a slut and a guy to be called a stud.

Trust me, that doorman has a lot more shit to deal with than you in your office job day to day. If you treated him like a dude that's doing his job and appreciate that he's probably got a way more annoying job than you do, he might just treat you ok and eventually good.

(02-18-2014 12:48 AM)CaP7 Wrote:  

Social circles in clubs? I don't get that at all. Opportunities are everywhere.


I used to live 6 short blocks from Gaslamp in San Diego. On Tues-Weds nights at about 9:30pm, I would walk a lap past all the hot spots and just b.s. with the door guys. Eventually they would recognize me and I became known on a first name basis with 3-4 of them. Sure enough, come Friday-Saturday night, I started to be able to walk right past lines, no cover on crowded nights.

It took about a month to accomplish this. It's not hard if you have LOCAL access. If you live 10 miles away, then you're going to have to do it through tipping well, PLUS, being a solid guy that people like.

Yeah, there's a lot of B.S. But isn't that what makes it fun and entertaining?

EXACTLY. This is like the kids in high school that say, "Oh, ASB or 'x group' is impossible to get into, it's soooo cliquish" but people don't realize, that the thing is, people ostracize you not because you're a horrible person or have no value but MOSTLY because they don't recognize your value or you suck at presenting your value. People are afraid of what they don't know, by and large, so if you can get them comfortable with you around and they can realize sort of what you're about over time, this lets their guards down and you can connect with them.

That door guy, yeah he shits all over everyone, because that's essentially his job on a busy night. Come by and say hi a few times when it's not that busy, dude might realize you're a local and when he sees you out on a busy night knows you're a local and a "known quantity." Being a "known quantity" even if you're not a baller or a shot caller can get you so far ahead of other people it's not even funny.

(02-17-2014 07:23 PM)HankRearden Wrote:  

Greasing guys some money is interesting as well. It reminds me of the mantra that one needs to spend money to make money. I imagine one would have to tip often, and substantially to start getting free drinks at a bar, right? Similarly, I guess the challenge is meeting these promoters and positioning yourself accordingly. Although I love clubbing and do my most damage there, I'm currently in more of a university scene where free drinks don't really exist, club lines aren't really an issue, and girls are super friendly and approachable.

You need to OFFER value to get value. Why would someone with a lot of value just GIVE it away?

The best hookups I've ever had locally spawned from me FUCKING UP. Not from the fuck up per se, but my followup reaction to it. This was many years ago:

I gave my ID once (the only time I've EVER done it) to my family member who was underage but shorter than me. He was only a couple months away from being 21 and he looked fairly similar to me. I sent him in with my MUCH shorter female friend thinking this would help. The security guy immediately took my ID and told my family member to fuck off, that I could pick up the ID from the police. I was blown away. I thought it would actually work.

I was fucked...or so I thought.

I threw what I thought was the hail mary. I went up to the door guy/promoter (not the security guy) and told him something along the lines of, "look, I'm an idiot. This guy is my family member, I live real close by here and I wasn't trying to fuck with your guy's program, he wasn't going to drink, he just wanted to hang out with our group and we were going out so we didn't want to leave him behind. I stupidly figured he would be okay, this is the first time I've ever even considered doing this. Is there ANY way I could get my ID back from you guys, I promise this is the last time I would ever do this, I wouldn't have done it if it wasn't my family member and it wasn't really a situation where he wouldn't drink. I didn't think about the fact that it could get you guys in real trouble"

The door guy basically told me to hold off, I hung out waiting for a while, he talked it over with the security guy who was obviously pissed, but he came back to me and told me that if I took care of the security guy he could get my ID back. I was grateful (because really, they have NO reason to give me the ID back), handed the guy a $20, and a couple minutes later I had my ID back. I was very thankful for the door guy and made it a note to make sure to say thanks to him again the next time I saw him.

No need, my attitude or SOMETHIING about my interaction with him made him tell me that the next time I came out, to just come up to the front and say hi to him. He didn't say anything else, but I welcomed the invitation to come talk to him again as he'd helped me out and I felt pretty lame about the whole thing. The next time I came out the line was at least a 20 minute wait if not more so. Before getting in line I went up to him and told him that I wanted to come say hi and thanks again for helping me out the other night. He basically said it was okay and not to do it again.

I assumed that was the end of the interaction and started to turn to walk back to the end of the line to wait my turn and he called out to me. I stopped, turned, and he looked at me and said, "Don't you want to come in?" I remember I almost argued with him, telling him "Yeah, I'm going to get in line" before it dawned on me what he was saying as he asked "It's just you, right?"

The answer was, "fuck yeah it's just me" in my head as the hot girls waiting in line looked me up and down with a "why the fuck does he get to go in front of us" look which I always enjoy, to this day. It's not LA, but that is a pretty awesome feeling (and one you can easily get used to) when hot girls are doing that, "wtf why do they get to go in in front of us" look at you, even better when it's a big group, even better when it's more guys than girls.

(02-17-2014 05:05 PM)Basil Ransom Wrote:  

Thanks for the breakdown. I think a big part of it is that the upfront 'investment' into getting consistent results from nightlife is high. It's like if you're making $100k a year and then you get a chance to make double or triple that potentially, but you've got to make $30k for the first year and it's not really clear you'll get to that $200k or $300k payday. A lot of people will just be like fuck it, I'm going back to my old digs. That's how I feel about nightclubs - I do it occasionally to varying success and then say fuck it, I'm going back to the hipster bars where I get a certain level of success and can operate more easily (though I'm cool with the smoking section in clubs).

The difference is that most of these guys don't have a "hipster bar" or other good venue where they have reasonable success with minimal investment.

See my story above. For $20 and an apparently good recovery from a potentially COSTLY mistake (could've been black balled, could've had to get my ID from the cops/gotten a ticket) I ended up with the best hookup in my local area by far. That door hookup spawned into the same guy working the absolute HOTTEST local bar/dance club for the better part of two years, followed by hookups from almost all the major bartenders at the original place and ALL the door guys there too.

Beyond that I gained notoriety through his social circle that gained me girls as well as my friends. Beyond that all my friends have MASSIVE hookups through this bar, all originating from myself and that one night. Here and there I'd tip a few bucks from time to time to the same door guy at first, but at this point it's all gravy. So rare that I have to tip all that much. I'd say my tipping has been a 4-5:1 return on investment. Of course there's non-tipping effort expended, but that's just networking. Networking is minimum 2-10:1 on your investment in most cases and sometimes far beyond..

Networking is absolutely the most powerful thing in the world.

(02-17-2014 04:12 PM)DVY Wrote:  

I still hit the clubs on a semi-regular basis. I came to LA about 1.5 years ago and really struggled for 6-8 months. Door drama, girl drama, logistical drama, car drama, venue issues, wingman issues. You name it, I've had those problems.

It takes time to build relationships, but thats why its so impressive to have these perks. Don't wish it was easier, wish you were better.

Both of the above paragraphs ring HEAVILY true for me with the mantra that "networking is the most powerful thing in the world. First paragraph because a year and a half later you've got what may have taken you half the time and energy had you had an in with McQueen initially.

The second paragraph because not only is that outlook VERY true, but until you've lived it in some aspect of your life, the rest of the people with very little experience/results won't ever understand that while it's difficult, you can achieve more for less effort than you ever though possible prior to getting to that level.

[DVY]

I came to LA and just struggled constantly. I couldn't get anything. i remember being upset that I had it made in SF, but had to move here.

It took me about 6-8 months to get modest success, 10 months to get back to the level I had in SF and at the 1 year mark, I was killing it.

The take-away from this (for people struggling) is that GAINS ARE NOT LINEAR. Its all about long plateaus and rapid spikes of success.

[soup]

(02-18-2014 04:01 AM)DVY Wrote:  

I came to LA and just struggled constantly. I couldn't get anything. i remember being upset that I had it made in SF, but had to move here.

It took me about 6-8 months to get modest success, 10 months to get back to the level I had in SF and at the 1 year mark, I was killing it.

The take-away from this (for people struggling) is that GAINS ARE NOT LINEAR. Its all about long plateaus and rapid spikes of success.

That's the same structure for learning anything. It's also the same plot that evolution employs- plateaus punctuated by spikes.

[Smooth Operator]

(02-17-2014 12:49 PM)soup Wrote:  

I've never paid for a bottle in my life- anyone who does it is bluepill/patsy.

In the area where I live it's just more economical to buy a bottle instead separate drinks when going out in a group. Also less hassle than standing in the line for drinks every now and then. Disadvantage = you can't leave your table alone so you're kinda stuck to one spot when the bottle isn't empty yet. But I agree that many guys do bottles just to show off and thinking it will get them laid.

(02-17-2014 11:16 PM)Christian McQueen Wrote:  

The hottest chicks are in the club

Exactly! Club demographics are often so good. Even discounting makeup/heels/dresses/dark lightning, I can't find that quantity of quality during the day...