[Maciano]

It's starting to become more and more clear that this recession isn't going anywhere soon. As soon as the Fed started tapering new bubbles popped, emerging markets this time. After the US housing bubble, the Euro crisis, now this. Jesse Colombo's got some great articles and info on this. Read his twitter btw: twitter.com/thebubblebubble

Basicly, all the Hallelujah stories of a good outlook for 2014 are already gone.

Lately, I've been thinking about the great recession and the role of boomers in the causes of its severity. While I don't hate on boomers per se, it's clear they're hellbent on making society's debt problem the problem of the young. They want to live on in their bubble of job security, nice pension, and move the debt -- they mostly caused -- to us. I could go all philosophical and tell you how this is inevitable in democratic welfare states, but I'm not interested in that nor do I care abt politics in general -- I believe it to be a sideshow, a timewaster. That discussion has been overdone, and frankly I don't give a shit: democracy, welfare, graying,... all that stuff is here to stay, so let's deal with it.

What I don't want is to be one of the guys who's going to clean up after other people's party. That's what boomers have in mind for us. I'm not willing to pay for the mess they made.

What's the best way around this shit? How can we guard our assets & income the best way, so we can keep most of what we make (legally)? Jeff Berwick says he managed to find a loophole by being a permanent traveller or move to Chile.

What else?

[Yeti]

(02-09-2014 10:40 AM)Maciano Wrote:  

It's starting to become more and more clear that this recession isn't going anywhere soon. As soon as the Fed started tapering new bubbles popped, emerging markets this time. After the US housing bubble, the Euro crisis, now this. Jesse Colombo's got some great articles and info on this. Read his twitter btw: twitter.com/thebubblebubble

Basicly, all the Hallelujah stories of a good outlook for 2014 are already gone.

Lately, I've been thinking about the great recession and the role of boomers in the causes of its severity. While I don't hate on boomers per se, it's clear they're hellbent on making society's debt problem the problem of the young. They want to live on in their bubble of job security, nice pension, and move the debt -- they mostly caused -- to us. I could go all philosophical and tell you how this is inevitable in democratic welfare states, but I'm not interested in that nor do I care abt politics in general -- I believe it to be a sideshow, a timewaster. That discussion has been overdone, and frankly I don't give a shit: democracy, welfare, graying,... all that stuff is here to stay, so let's deal with it.

What I don't want is to be one of the guys who's going to clean up after other people's party. That's what boomers have in mind for us. I'm not willing to pay for the mess they made.

What's the best way around this shit? How can we guard our assets & income the best way, so we can keep most of what we make (legally)? Jeff Berwick says he managed to find a loophole by being a permanent traveller or move to Chile.

What else?

Speaking for Americans, it's tough because they'll take away your ability to get a valid, current U.S. passport if you work overseas and do not pay U.S. taxes, as you're required to do. I just found out that other wealthy liberal democracies generally do not maintain the same requirement.

I try to buy out of as much government waste as I can. Europeans, Aussies, Kiwis, Canadians, hell, even the Japanese have it made because your centralized medical system works... pretty well (granted, not perfect).
Obamacare is ridiculously expensive - they took out something like $456 in the first month of my payment, after I forgot to opt out. I'd rather just pay the 1% tax on my yearly income, but then I'll be without emergency room coverage, which is all that a healthy young man needs in a safe city like NYC. What's a man to do? I need to be covered in case I slip, or a car runs a red light and crashes into me.

[DaveR]

The Western welfare-state system has to fail at some point because it became too generous and unbalanced. I wouldn't say it's specifically the fault of the Boomers, but more the policies of the governments they were born under. The younger generations aren't large enough to support that many people on welfare. The Boomers helped expand it though.

There are plenty of tax-free living options:

No-tax states:
Monaco
Dubai
Hong Kong (no tax on foreign income)
Singapore (no tax on foreign income)

Low-tax states:
Russia - 13%
Bulgaria - 10%
Cyprus - 10%

Another method which I prefer, if you have built up some capital:
1. accumulate capital (eg. 300k euros)
2. choose a country you'll be comfortable living in for a few years. Anywhere in Central/Eastern Europe is ideal as they have simple tax laws, making the next step easier.
3. set up an offshore company in which you can legally accumulate the profit from your business without tax (eg. HK, Singapore, or other offshore company).
4. if your business needs operating capital, loan the 300k to your business.
5. during the next few years in your chosen country, the business will pay off the loan, which you don't have to pay tax on. You won't have any personal income because the profit from your business will be kept in the offshore company (but unfortunately you can't spend the profit for a few years).
6. when you've spent all of the original 300k, it's time to move to another country so your offshore co. can pay out the profit to you. It needs to pay the dividend after you leave the first country, but before you arrive in the second country. So take a holiday somewhere and arrange for the dividend to be paid during that time.
7. repeat in another country. You can either choose a new country, or just live somewhere else temporarily for around a year.

It's a lot simpler than it sounds in practice. This is just a variation on the "permanent traveller" idea, but one which gives you a much better lifestyle - you don't need to move to another country every few months. If it doesn't make sense, let me know and I'll try to explain it another way.
I've been doing this with Russia for a long time. The Russian tax residency rules are very simple, so I only need to spend 7 months out of Russia to not be tax resident in that year. So I do my usual 3.5 months in Italy during the Winter and 3.5 months in Kiev where I have some old friends. Then I go back to Russia and live there for another few years tax-free.

Another option if the above is too complicated and you don't mind paying a bit of tax... if your business makes say 200k per year and you spend only half of it, just set up an offshore co. to accumulate 100k per year tax-free. You'll have to pay tax on the 100k that you spend, but the effective rate will be half. So for example in Russia, where the tax rate is 13%, you would pay 13% on 100k, but that's effectively 6.5% on the total 200k that you earned. When you decide you want to spend the money which has accumulated in the offshore company, you'll need to move to another country for at least 7 months... No big deal in my opinion, when you consider the benefits.
This also works in any of the Central/Eastern countries. So you could do it in Czech republic, Poland, Estonia, Croatia, Russia, Thailand, Malaysia, Philippines... plenty of choices to suit just about any taste.

[cibo]

Dave, while you are correct that your methods would work if a person was not a citizen of the US, it would not work for Americans. The US taxes world wide income regardless of source, it's the only country to do that. After the first $90k that's exempted for expats spending 335 days aboard, unless you're in a country that has a double tax agreement with the US (HK is only shipping and Sing does not), you still have to pay US taxes on your foreign earned income, which includes dividends. If you never renew your US passport you can get away with not paying US taxes somewhat. However if the FACTA law gets implemented and you have more than $50k in a foreign bank account, you will get reported to the IRS.

Best you can do maintain some sort of permanent non-residency, have your money stored in offshore companies, have them pay what work expenses you can while reinvesting the profits. When you need to claim the income, use the 90k exemption and take the rest out in a low tax country with a double tax agreement with the states.

[soup]

OP- I think some of the guys on the forum are boomers ..

[Grit]

I suggest a switch to Bitcoin. Not to try and conceal money, but to increase the ease and demand for its use.

The US debts owed are owed in US dollars, so a widespread surge in popularity of a new currency could leave an excess of dollars sitting stagnant as people rush to the new currency. Prices would have to rise-aka inflate- and that could suddenly make the federal debt owed interest skyrocket. That could cause bankruptcy and a forced reevaluation of the policies that led to the debt.

Not to mention the side benefits of bitcoin, like no middleman for money transfers (aka paypal or credit card fees), which in theory would allow consumer prices to drop.

[DaveR]

(02-09-2014 12:21 PM)cibo Wrote:  

Dave, while you are correct that your methods would work if a person was not a citizen of the US, it would not work for Americans. The US taxes world wide income regardless of source, it's the only country to do that. After the first $90k that's exempted for expats spending 335 days aboard, unless you're in a country that has a double tax agreement with the US (HK is only shipping and Sing does not), you still have to pay US taxes on your foreign earned income, which includes dividends. If you never renew your US passport you can get away with not paying US taxes somewhat. However if the FACTA law gets implemented and you have more than $50k in a foreign bank account, you will get reported to the IRS.

Best you can do maintain some sort of permanent non-residency, have your money stored in offshore companies, have them pay what work expenses you can while reinvesting the profits. When you need to claim the income, use the 90k exemption and take the rest out in a low tax country with a double tax agreement with the states.

I know, but the OP has his home country as the Netherlands. As an American, I think you would even have trouble setting up an offshore company, because the CFC rules still apply regardless of where you're resident. There really isn't much you can do other than to renounce.

Luckily for everyone else, it's a problem which *only* applies to Americans and a few tin-pot countries (Belarus, Hungary, and the others are so irrelevant they're not even worth mentioning).

[CJ_W]

(02-09-2014 10:51 AM)Yeti Wrote:  

(02-09-2014 10:40 AM)Maciano Wrote:  

It find a loophole by being a permanent traveller or move to Chile.

What else?

Speaking for Americans, it's tough because they'll take away your ability to get a valid, current U.S. passport if you work overseas and do not pay U.S. taxes, as you're required to do.

That's only if you make over $90k a year.

[buja]

Quote:

That's only if you make over $90k a year.

The $97,600 exemption ONLY applies to earned income from employment.

The exemption does NOT include rental income, interest, dividends, capital gains, etc.

[buja]

Quote:

Jeff Berwick says he managed to find a loophole by being a permanent traveller or move to Chile.

Berwick is Canadian and he lives outside Canada. So he is not subject to the same reporting requirements that the "Land of the Free" blue passport holders must endure.

[Virtus]

We can just kill all boomers that retire

[cibo]

(02-09-2014 01:03 PM)DaveR Wrote:  

(02-09-2014 12:21 PM)cibo Wrote:  

Dave, while you are correct that your methods would work if a person was not a citizen of the US, it would not work for Americans. The US taxes world wide income regardless of source, it's the only country to do that. After the first $90k that's exempted for expats spending 335 days aboard, unless you're in a country that has a double tax agreement with the US (HK is only shipping and Sing does not), you still have to pay US taxes on your foreign earned income, which includes dividends. If you never renew your US passport you can get away with not paying US taxes somewhat. However if the FACTA law gets implemented and you have more than $50k in a foreign bank account, you will get reported to the IRS.

Best you can do maintain some sort of permanent non-residency, have your money stored in offshore companies, have them pay what work expenses you can while reinvesting the profits. When you need to claim the income, use the 90k exemption and take the rest out in a low tax country with a double tax agreement with the states.

I know, but the OP has his home country as the Netherlands. As an American, I think you would even have trouble setting up an offshore company, because the CFC rules still apply regardless of where you're resident. There really isn't much you can do other than to renounce.

Luckily for everyone else, it's a problem which *only* applies to Americans and a few tin-pot countries (Belarus, Hungary, and the others are so irrelevant they're not even worth mentioning).

Fair point, missed the home country bit.

Also I'm setting up an offshore corporation as we speak so I'll give you my views on how difficult it is. I'm not expecting much difficulty though since these countries are known for not registering names and Americans are the prime audience.

[The Beast1]

(02-09-2014 12:56 PM)soup Wrote:  

OP- I think some of the guys on the forum are boomers ..

My parents are all boomers.

While it is hard to individually fault boomers. I see no reason to fault an entire generation (something i have no problem doing for my parents). It's a dual problem of people not being smart enough and with politicians being irresponsible with running the US debt irresponsibily to get votes.

Goodwinning the article, i fault the germans for letting Hitler get too crazy. Ignorance is no excuse. Either way, fault or no fault, i still am crossing my fingers for a US debt default. That's the only way this welfare system will collapse. I'm surprised people are willing to put their money into T notes.

It should happen soon. The US debt to GDP ratio is close to a 100% at this point. I wonder how long the world will continue to supply that credit card for us.

[Suits]

(02-09-2014 02:18 PM)calihunter Wrote:  

We can just kill all boomers that retire

I see absolutely no flaws with this suggestion.

[jimukr104]

(02-09-2014 03:01 PM)frenchie Wrote:  

(02-09-2014 12:56 PM)soup Wrote:  

OP- I think some of the guys on the forum are boomers ..

My parents are all boomers.

While it is hard to individually fault boomers. I see no reason to fault an entire generation (something i have no problem doing for my parents). It's a dual problem of people not being smart enough and with politicians being irresponsible with running the US debt irresponsibily to get votes.

Goodwinning the article, i fault the germans for letting Hitler get too crazy. Ignorance is no excuse. Either way, fault or no fault, i still am crossing my fingers for a US debt default. That's the only way this welfare system will collapse. I'm surprised people are willing to put their money into T notes.

It should happen soon. The US debt to GDP ratio is close to a 100% at this point. I wonder how long the world will continue to supply that credit card for us.

Actually they will do it forever or very long time anyway....especially with the USA entering the energy export business. Most world economy depends on USA dollars and American consumers.
T bonds are great because its guaranteed...no ifs or buts about it.USA can always print money so they guarantee it.
As for boomers..wtf? they worked and saved, I see nothing wrong but that generation did produce the most liberals. They deserve their pensions ..its deferred compensation. Nothing stops young poeple from unionizing and demanding pensions... you guys were sold on 401k's. Anyone with a brain new they were in inadequate for most people.But realize pensions means LESS salary. Most young people are not penny smart..they only see the dollar signs on the paycheck and don't want to defer something that they can't control. Smart people do make em work though.Those liberals are the problem and future generations followed with more liberals. But to be honest..most of us generation x is even worst. We been spoiled and don't know how to save.But its young guys who are voting for corrupt Democrats who spend.
You young folks are even worst..... you need your crack phones and x boxes...ALL we demanded was our M TV.
Welfare isn't going anywhere and its NOT our problem anyway. Welfare is actually a very small part of the pie.
Corruption is #1 problem. A medical system where workers become millionaires and a military budget that creates a hole that money disappears into. Seriously if we efficiently ran health care(means doctors cant be rich anymore by becoming specialists) we would have it costing only a fraction of what it does today. I blame insurance.
Since I keep mostly cash..I don't care. default=Higher interest rates = cash is king!Low rates have been killing me.
If it goes the other way..deflation..than cash is king as well. I am only losing in this environment where gov't keeps inflation lower and interest rates lower.They do this to help those irresponsible with MONEY
As for the tax complainers. Yes its wrong that USA taxes folks who are in residence someplace else.But if you look at the bigger picture..MOST Americans live in the USA....thus they pay some of the lowest taxes in the world. I paid 12k this year and made over 100k..that's 12% at best. Tell me what other Western country taxes people this low???Then when you add that everything costs cheaper here..that mean A LOT of disposable income. Yes if you hate whales(or cant lay quality) and can't stand Wendy's,Burger King I can see why one might become an expat..but taxes here are lower than almost every first world country.
We also have less welfare. I never met an American overseas who thought it was ok to backpack and smoke dope because he can go back home and get medical benefits and monetary benefits. I have MET some EU folks that do just that .Yes its great to backpack and smoke dope ..but don't expect my tax dollars to subsidize you lol.
That being said..for lifers giving up USA citizenship isn't a bad idea if you have a good plan.For you Jewish guys you have a good scam.. Israel .I keep reading how its a great tax haven for non residents and even residents get 10 year exemption on taxes when they get passport.Country will even pay you subsidies while you live there 1st year.
Passport allows you almost any country .You can go to Russia(one of the only western countries who can) and Brazil without a visa. Yes--many middle eastern countries off limits. But what PUA wants go to middle east anyway?

https://www.nbn.org.il/aliyahpedia/finan...srael.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_requir...i_citizens

Seems those Aussies a bit anti Semitic lol

" Europeans, Aussies, Kiwis, Canadians, hell, even the Japanese have it made because your centralized medical system works... pretty well (granted, not perfect)"

Umm good that they keep costs low.. but when you add ALL THE COMBINED taxes they pay.. trust me most would rather have a job that requires only partial premium payments. If your making 100k a year and pay 500 bucks a month you are probably still paying lower than the combined taxes some countries have on thier citizens. Then add 30-50% higher energy and consumer prices. You are ahead of the game.. that's why folks come from all over the world to work in America.Never met an American who said they were going to go to work in France so they have more disposable income..UNHEARD OF!I have heard of early retirees go overseas where medical care is cheaper though!

[Maciano]

As I wrote in OP I don't have a problem with boomers per se, but I don't like how they, as a voting block, expect the state to give them endless supply of gimmedats. Fix your own goddamn mess. These gimmedats will be paid for by younger people who will never be able to expect them back -- one must be a fool to think such a system to be OK. I don't want to turn this discussion into a blame game because that's useless for the problem at hand. I want to safeguard my assets and income from amoral politicians who want to redistribute my hard-earned money to their voting blocs (for power). Some of you have already given some food for thought, thanks. I will look into these possibilities and get back to you.

Boomers on this forum will probably understand what I say and I reckon they'll have their shit together, i.e. they don't put a claim on other people's money.

[Quintus Curtius]

I have a problem with boomers. And I've ranted about them before.

They're a supremely selfish bunch. They threw a big party for themselves and left the mess for us to clean up. They embraced and endorsed feminism when it was fashionable, without a thought as to where it would lead. They destroyed the country financially and politically.

One of the biggest truths out there that nobody is willing to say is: old people in the US are selfish fucks.

They burned the house down, and now want to retire in Florida tax-free and let us sweep up the puke.

[WestCoast]

The only way to overcome the nonsense is to pay less into the tax system.

The only way to do that is to 1) have a lot of money and 2) start your own company.

Using the $97K tax exemption to start. What you do is start a company that does say "real estate" then you just buy all the property under the corporation. Now you're earning income by working for the corporation... Looped out and done.

Second thing is everyone should be looking to become a dual citizen. If shit really hits the fan you can cash everything out and simply renounce citizenship and pay whatever capital gains tax you have to pay.

I've said it before and will say it again. Every single generation has it harder than the last to make it from the bottom to the top. You're not allowed to make mistakes this day and age. The boomers were able to dick around with stupid jobs and get moved up the ladder without college degrees. Now you are practically forced to get a college degree just to get a regular working job.

Unfortunately that is the name of the game. Life moves extremely fast these days, you have to keep making smart decisions until you have enough money to say fuck you. Then you just ride the wave until some shit hits the fan and you pull the escape hatch and leave. That's pretty much how you win in the USA now.

So TL;DR stack cash, set up a corporation, get another citizenship and you're free and clear. In the mean time so long as the gravy train is running stay on the tracks here in the states.

Even if things don't hit the fan you always assume the worst and hope for the best, with this set up you're pretty much ready to go with a middle finger in the air and cash at your finger tips.

[runsonmagic]

Logan's Run. Only solution.

http://youtu.be/LSUAAKFLoL0

[Avon Barksdale]

(02-09-2014 12:57 PM)Grit Wrote:  

I suggest a switch to Bitcoin. Not to try and conceal money, but to increase the ease and demand for its use.

The US debts owed are owed in US dollars, so a widespread surge in popularity of a new currency could leave an excess of dollars sitting stagnant as people rush to the new currency. Prices would have to rise-aka inflate- and that could suddenly make the federal debt owed interest skyrocket. That could cause bankruptcy and a forced reevaluation of the policies that led to the debt.

Not to mention the side benefits of bitcoin, like no middleman for money transfers (aka paypal or credit card fees), which in theory would allow consumer prices to drop.

I thought the bitcoin boom was over?

[Tex Pro]

Yep, the boomers are dirtbags and they are going to be coming for your money. Social security and medicare were not designed for the very low labor force participation rates we have today. These programs basically become unsustainable if the labor force participation continues to drop. That is something the government is not telling the sheeple.

One thing the boomers are going to do for sure is demand more taxes, but that will only get them so far since there aren't enough people to tax. My guess is they will warm up to immigration (especially of young professionals from overseas) so that they have more people to tax.

[Remington]

(02-09-2014 12:57 PM)Grit Wrote:  

I suggest a switch to Bitcoin. Not to try and conceal money, but to increase the ease and demand for its use.

The US debts owed are owed in US dollars, so a widespread surge in popularity of a new currency could leave an excess of dollars sitting stagnant as people rush to the new currency. Prices would have to rise-aka inflate- and that could suddenly make the federal debt owed interest skyrocket. That could cause bankruptcy and a forced reevaluation of the policies that led to the debt.

Not to mention the side benefits of bitcoin, like no middleman for money transfers (aka paypal or credit card fees), which in theory would allow consumer prices to drop.

Bitcoin used to be a growing market. That bubble will burst very soon, making those them worthless. Consider investing in something that is guaranteed. Better yet, start a Scottrade account and learn from experience in investing and finance.

[CaP7]

First off, I wish people would stop screaming for the U.S. to default. It's not going to happen unless there is a better, safer currency to flee to. The U.S. has the most (and most accessible) natural resources in the world, no enemies at our borders, efficient economy, enforceable laws, etc., etc., etc. No other country even comes close. If there is a default, I doubt it will be in our lifetimes.

That said, I have a MAJOR problem with the Boomer generation in general. They enjoyed tremendous freedoms in their youth. When they grew older and no longer needed the freedom, they passed endless laws and regulations so that they wouldn't be bothered by others that wanted to enjoy the same freedoms.

For instance, I think it's shameful that you can't drink alcohol on the beach anymore. Their generation enjoyed an entire culture of beach parties. Now they rarely happen. Smoking is outlawed. Drinking and driving is a prison sentence. To build ANYTHING in CA, the taxes and fees are impossibly high (other states might be easier). State parks and public places are underfunded. Last, but certainly not least, the existing lawsuit culture that didn't exist in the 50's and 60's.

The selfishness of that generation is unbelievable.

I don't know. I could be wrong. Maybe we can chalk it up to growth, bureaucracy, or something less offensive to an entire generation. I have a hard time with this though.

[Grit]

(02-09-2014 10:40 PM)Remington Wrote:  

Bitcoin used to be a growing market. That bubble will burst very soon, making those them worthless. Consider investing in something that is guaranteed. Better yet, start a Scottrade account and learn from experience in investing and finance.

I'm no expert, but as a designer I see at least three more triggers to bitcoin's popularity:

1. No one has created an easily useable open source wallet program, enough for an average person to engage in. This is because the market is still too fragmented with competing developers. Closely related, there isn't one company in the bitcoin industry that has made status of household name. I predict that the most likely scenario will be a developer making the spotlight with an easy to use program, which will trigger users into the system.

2. Bitcoin hasnt figured out an easy way to cash out. I imagine some ventures like mylocalbitcoin or some kind of bitcoin ATM hitting mainstream for making this process super easy. When people have confidence they can easily switch back to cash, expect another wave of users.

3. More of a slow burn, but every day political bodies are voting on bitcoin, and I expect the general exposure of this to hit the public's radar, especially since bitcoin is in infancy and will move from deregulated to highly regulated, just like everything else. Expect the media to catch every step of the process, exposing it more.

CaP7 Wrote:

First off, I wish people would stop screaming for the U.S. to default. It's not going to happen unless there is a better, safer currency to flee to.

Proving my point. No international currency will unseat the USD; for all purposes, every other international currency *is* the USD. A tibetan farmer might not give a shit about dollars, but I guarantee Tibetan bankers are hedging his efforts and his currency against the USD. Its safe to assume that society will combust and we will be back to trading apples for peanuts before the USD goes away.

This thread is about the ridiculous fiscal policy (or utter lack of) that creates and sustains the USD. A dog can complain about his master kicking him all he wants. it doesn't change the fact that the next kick is on the way, and will hurt. And the next kick, and the next....

[iknowexactly]

(02-09-2014 08:26 PM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  

I have a problem with boomers. And I've ranted about them before.

They're a supremely selfish bunch. ........ old people in the US are selfish fucks.

Yes, and young people are altruistic saints, human nature has totally changed. Sounds realistic to me.

But I tell you the income I get now after 25 years of kissing ass and working graveyard to finance my education is small but very welcome. Nice non-work if you can get it, I can tell you.

And of course, if you found some angle that enriched you, like leveraged stock whambammery, you'd nobly decline the easy, legal money for the good of future generation, and work at your cube job uncomplaining.

Sure you would.