[2Wycked]

How much influence does society exert over what men find attractive?

A few photos from around the world:

Ancient Greece:



Mosou in China:



Madagascar:



America:



Han Dynasty:



Croatia:



Previous picture was from an article talking about Roosh.

First off, I am starting from the -- most likely -- universal belief on the forum that men are attracted to looks first and males are biologically compelled to place a premium on looks that women do not share.

Further, especially in light of the comments on my thread about Christy Mack, it is obvious attitude and personality are of importance to a man considering a potential girlfriend. Chastity, as well, is of great importance. While these are important to consider, what I think is most interesting is what men find physically attractive.

Sure, as you might already guess, I would mention narcissism. That most assuredly is highly important to consider, as it would mean that men would place even greater emphasis on looks, as women would do the same; while women would also demand more confidence, game, height, etc. Also, narcissism means that men would be more intuitively aware of power in the country, so they would probably overrate white women's attractiveness.

Consider my own roots: I grew up straight-up country. I have noticed that between my country and city friends, country guys have a higher tolerance for chubby chicks - provided they have cute faces, big boobs, etc. I went to undergrad with a thick chick. She had a cute face, long hair, big-ass tits, olive skin and big, fat ass. My city friends were fairly turned off by her (she'd be very cute if she lost 10-20 pounds). I agreed, but I would still smash hard even if she didn't lose weight. Even still, country guys have -- on average -- what would be termed "lower standards." We tolerate uglier chicks, tattoos and chubby chicks (weight is the primary difference). It isn't a huge difference, but a noticeable difference.

So, what are you thoughts? For the more well-traveled players on the forum (I have never left the Midwest), what have your travel experiences taught you? Just how influential on society is over what men find attractive?

[funkyzeit]

Powerful men make some standards because they are in high demand and they can influence others to do what they find attractive and what will make them even more attractive. I say SOME standards because they can't really change our core instincts.

Japanese used to break women's feet at early age and shape them to look really small because it was a thing that some king dude liked. Other men wouldn't probably mind normal feet but were forced to seek women like that in order to raise their status.

Long necks in some African tribes, excessive jewelery in some parts of India, covered body and face in Arab countries. These are all standards forced by higher authority.

The basics stay the same: Look fertile and take care of your body, be feminine and submissive and make sure the number of dicks that were inside you is as close to zero as it can be.

[Col. Tigh]

Ephemeral things like fashion and ornamentation, which change wildly and rapidly between cultures, are weapons women wield in their intra-sexual competition. It is intended to establish and reinforce hierarchies and dominance between women, not really to attract males. And so, in fact clothing, hairstyles, and that ilk only have moderate effect, at most, on whether men want to bang the women bearing said style. We generally see through it, in aggregate.

[Seductionsextravel Sebi]

The influence of society in what we perceive is extremely strong. When I take myself as an example, it took me a while till I was sure about what kind of women I liked.

In the process of learning game and getting more and more numbers, dates and sex, I was convinced that I had to get the model type girls in bed in order to feel like a man. Of course this is total bullshit but that's what I believed back then.

I finally had sex with a 1,80 meter model who worked for H&M and of course it felt great to be know that you are able to seduce a model but even if she was absolutely beautiful, I wasn't attracted to her so much.

I finally realized that even if the society tells us to run after very tall and skinny girls, I prefer girl who are small and who are a little bit curvy (not fat but who have a nice ass and boobs). Since I put this belief of dating modes aside I am happily dating small girls.

[WestIndianArchie]

Deep question.

I'm sure you have experienced workplace pretty? In your closed environment suddenly a decent chick becomes a goddess.

Is it that you finally notice her and get a good look?

Or is it that she has no real competition?

We read here a lot about guys going to Asia and developing Asian fever.

Could it be that the boner is looking for the best of what is available in addition to social signals.

The other thing that comes to mind is when I discovered ass. I was working in a sweatshop in east Brooklyn when I turned 16. Her name was Fancy. Thinking back on it, she was probably illegal, uneducated, and the cock slot for my boss.

Prior to Fancy, I'd been fed a steady diet of tits being the be all end all. Fancy's face was not that remarkable. But she had this rear protuberance that was oddly distracting.

Seeing it pleased me. Wasn't sure why. But her ass made her much more tolerable.

There's no way dominant culture would have brought me that message in the early 90's.

WIA

[soup]

As I get more experience, I'm able to see through fashion and cultural influence and my tastes for what I consider to beautiful are getting more honed.

I imagine what every girl will look like naked to get the real appraisal.

[iamdegaussed]

I hear girls whining about impossible beauty standards set by the media/pop culture all the time and what they don't realize is that 90% of guys aren't going to snub them just because they don't look like a magazine cover girl. If they just take care of themselves and act feminine, they are going to be able to secure commitment from a large portion of the dating pool. Trouble is, they all want the ripped sixpack super alpha male to commit to them, and yeah in order to get him they have to reach that upper 10% of beauty. So that's why they think it's so unfair and that the beauty standard is 'so impossible'.

And I really don't think society has any remote effect on what I find beautiful. There are so many girls I see on the daily that I'd date/fuck and they're various shapes/sizes. If society is telling me that, society must also be telling women that powerful and rich men are attractive.

[philly22]

It might have some kind of effect. Though every man deep down knows what he's attracted to. For me 1) Fit 2) Skinny 3) Fat That would be my level of attraction. Girls who do crossfit are usually perfecto

[horn]

Very little. All the scientific evidence shows that guys like pretty much the same things. No sane guy on here would turn down a fit, pretty goddess no matter what the media said.

[jimukr104]

I believe what we like is in our genes..but Hollywood influences women for sure!

[speakeasy]

I think what's considered beautiful is almost entirely socialized. This is considered beautiful to some men:







There is no real standard of beauty, every culture and sub-culture makes one up. The only constant is that men seem to be universally attracted to youth, and maybe fairer skin.

[Suits]

(02-07-2014 11:36 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

There is no real standard of beauty, every culture and sub-culture makes one up. The only constant is that men seem to be universally attracted to youth, and maybe fairer skin.

I agree with you on a macro level, but that doesn't explain preference variation.

I only like girls who are tiny, generally under 5'3 foot and under 100LB. This is not normal anywhere I've lived, but it is what I like.

I can't imagine that I was "socialized" to prefer women with the same build as most clearly pre-pubescent women.

Of course I'm not attracted to actual 14 year olds, although I can understand the appeal of a girl who is already all woman, but I prefer my women (once they are the age of consent) to be that size for some reason.

I know that they really have a 13-14 yr old's build, because that is the section of the store where they have to do their shopping.

[Marlfox]

Symmetry is King.

You can factor other attributes in and out at will for the most part but it seems to be a universal influence on attraction for everyone and anyone.

[j r]

This is a bit complicated, because in the sexual marketplace most men are price takers. It's only at the very top of the male food chains that you see men having the range of choice that allows them to pick what they are most attracted to.

I think about it like this though. When a woman wants to impress other women or impress men in a non-sexual manner, she puts on fashionable clothing and whatever accessories celebs are wearing in magazines and gets some sort of fashion-forward haircut.

What does a woman do when she wants to seduce a man? She puts on something tight and low-cut; uses makeup to make her lips and cheeks redder and her eyes bigger; and throws on a pair of heels to help her legs and ass right. That should tell you something right there.

[polymath]

Send me to Croatia.

[void]

There are scientific studies about beauty and attractiveness. Babies look at attractive faces longer than on ugly ones, so a big part of what we perceive as attractive is hardcoded in our genes.
What this article talks about is fashion, I don't care about a ugly women dressed in "fashion".

[svenski7]

So much of it is hard-wired.

Hip-to-waist ratio.

I had no idea about this until reading about it in a case study.

[WestIndianArchie]

How good is your eye?

(a) the average women's figure with "standard measures"
   


(b) classical 90-60-90-Typ with hourglass figure
   

© the sportive type: masculine, tight pelvis, but big breasts
   

(d) the "Barbie type": thin, big breasts, tight pelvis, long legs
   

[Timoteo]

Quote:

Consider my own roots: I grew up straight-up country. I have noticed that between my country and city friends, country guys have a higher tolerance for chubby chicks - provided they have cute faces, big boobs, etc. I went to undergrad with a thick chick. She had a cute face, long hair, big-ass tits, olive skin and big, fat ass. My city friends were fairly turned off by her (she'd be very cute if she lost 10-20 pounds). I agreed, but I would still smash hard even if she didn't lose weight. Even still, country guys have -- on average -- what would be termed "lower standards." We tolerate uglier chicks, tattoos and chubby chicks (weight is the primary difference). It isn't a huge difference, but a noticeable difference.

Us city boys call these kinds of girls "cornfed."

[CJ_W]

(02-06-2014 10:31 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

There's no way dominant culture would have brought me that message in the early 90's.

WIA

"I like. . .big. . .butts and I can not lie."

[Slim Shady]

(02-08-2014 12:03 AM)Suits Wrote:  

(02-07-2014 11:36 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

There is no real standard of beauty, every culture and sub-culture makes one up. The only constant is that men seem to be universally attracted to youth, and maybe fairer skin.

I agree with you on a macro level, but that doesn't explain preference variation.

I only like girls who are tiny, generally under 5'3 foot and under 100LB. This is not normal anywhere I've lived, but it is what I like.

I can't imagine that I was "socialized" to prefer women with the same build as most clearly pre-pubescent women.

Of course I'm not attracted to actual 14 year olds, although I can understand the appeal of a girl who is already all woman, but I prefer my women (once they are the age of consent) to be that size for some reason.

I know that they really have a 13-14 yr old's build, because that is the section of the store where they have to do their shopping.

I would like to refer to the Delicious Tacos post about "underage" girls. Fuck I AM attracted to a 15 year old who's biologically "good to go", though I wouldn't act on the impulse because of obvious societal consequences. I am pretty young though, so maybe that will change. I doubt it.

Obviously I similarly prefer 5'3" 100 pound girls, but is that completely independent of societal pressure? As a pre-teen/early teen I was always told that I should marry a tall model type girl because they were the most attractive. I am tall myself, and I was told this would "make a good match". As a proper teenager I was involved in endurance sports, and the girls around me were very skinny, and often tiny. I realized that I preferred tiny to just skinny and tall. But the constant bombardment of that type must have had something to do with it.

I also noticed that around my late teens, the type of porn I was watching involved small girls, and I really got off, both porn wise, and while actually having sex, with the domination angle with these petite girls. So was I watching the porn because of pre-tendencies, or did the porn drive my desires?

I think it's more of a cycle, both aspects fuel each other.

But yeah

[NY Digital]

I believe attraction is largely biological. However, society can have influence in changing those biological predispositions.

No way anyone would be attracted to fat women if society didn't tell them over and over that it's okay for girls to be fat.

After all, how everyone looks today is a result of biological pre-selection over tens of thousands of years.

Women were always slim. It was always a sign of being fit enough to protect your kids from wild animals and other tribes.

Fat women would die off if shit hit the fan. That goes with fat men too.

[Hencredible Casanova]

I think men are very rational when it comes to evaluating female attractiveness.

This explains why women from certain countries (i.e. Brazil) are more or less universally desired among men. Most men around the world agree that Brazilian women are attractive.

You don't really see that with women. I can't think of a country where women from all over universally agree that men from there are attractive.

A hot chick 9+, regardless of what she looks like, is generally going to be sought after by men in virtually every country in the world.

The boner test is what it is.

I don't think that's the case with men. There's some countries where a particular look would kill while in other places women would be indifferent or disinterested.

As to what WIA is speaking to, I agree. I've noticed in academic settings many times how I'll go into a class on the first day and not find any of the chicks compelling. But after weeks upon weeks of sitting in the same classroom for hours, certain ones begin to grow on you. It's like that in work settings too.

[2Wycked]

(02-18-2014 10:37 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

As to what WIA is speaking to, I agree. I've noticed in academic settings many times how I'll go into a class on the first day and not find any of the chicks compelling. But after weeks upon weeks of sitting in the same classroom for hours, certain ones begin to grow on you. It's like that in work settings too.

This is very true.

I have the unique experience of a growing up in an incredibly small rural town, but then going off to a large public university. Girls that were considered hot suddenly tapered off into cute territory. Many girls that were considered cute suddenly became just another face in the masses at a crowded kegger.

So, the number of women around you in a given location affects the hierarchy, but also familiarity affects it, too. Psychological studies have shown the we judge people we first meet or don't know too well more harshly on their appearance. A slightly cute girl might accede to damn cute status the more you get to know her.

I think youth plays a bigger role than we have discussed here. Sure, many women age well, but consider the gap between 18 to 28. I may only be 26, but damn so many more women looked good at 18. With Facebook, this is easy to track.

And, yes, law school hot is a thing, as I am sure that is so in medical school or any other professional school or higher educational program. I chuckled a bit thinking about it, but very cute chicks went straight to hot tickets pretty quickly in law school. No 9's or 10's, but the handful of 7's and 8's became the top sexual class of females.

As expected, the white girls separated from the minorities. I won't go too much into it, but the black chicks had their own clique, as did the whites. A weird Asian/Indian/Arabic chick collusion developed, as well. No more than a handful of females in any circle. Slim pickings, especially at a top school.

All that being said, I think socialization matters more than some have said.