[OSL]

I've just left China and have return to the US, where I will be spending a frantic two months dealing with three different very nerve wracking and hectic things.

All of that aside, I've been asking myself some difficult questions lately. I want to base much of my life and career in a foreign country with high growth potential and in the past (4 years ago) I thought that it was going to be Korea+China.

Now Brazil is almost irresistible to me. I'm not talking about all of the beaches, lifestyle, and women - those are obvious. What is immediately appealing to me is that, with a background in Spanish and French, I'm very confident that I can become fluent in Portuguese in 6-8 months if I lived there. Second, it is somewhat closer to the US and Europe (8-9 hour flight from SP/RDJ instead of 14-18 hours). In addition to that, it is a democracy with a diverse and developing economic base.

China really needs no introduction here. It is overwhelmingly unanimously agreed upon that they will the next world juggernaut.

Putting the women/bundhas/caipirinhas aside and talking strictly about career choices, would you guys take China or Brazil?

[MysticTraveler]

(12-22-2010 03:41 AM)youngmobileglobal Wrote:  

Putting the women/bundhas/caipirinhas aside and talking strictly about career choices, would you guys take China or Brazil?

Brazil! China has India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Russia as its neighbors. 3 of these countries are nuclear powers. There will be tension between these countries sooner or later. India is already fighting with China over a piece of land. Moreover, China is a socialist country. They can do whatever the fuck they, no questions asked. This does lead to efficiency and China would have not been the superpower that it is now without a socialism but power generally corrupts.

Also, the demographics are better in Brazil. Most of China's population is aging. In hindsight they should have never gone for the one child policy because they will face a serious shortage of workers in the future.

And if you really want a good deal and don't care about the women then Argentina is the best place. They will the next big thing in SA. The only drawback is the high tax rate.

[Mrs. Chocolate]

Well, it depends on which is your work field. IMO, Engineering, Industry, and Economy (Bolsa de Valores) seems to be a good place to get money.

[Badstuber]

Quote:

Also, the demographics are better in Brazil. Most of China's population is aging. In hindsight they should have never gone for the one child policy because they will face a serious shortage of workers in the future.

And there are far less women than men in China.

[MysticTraveler]

(12-22-2010 08:55 AM)Mrs. Chocolate Wrote:  

Well, it depends on which is your work field. IMO, Engineering, Industry, and Economy (Bolsa de Valores) seems to be a good place to get money.

The education sector is an untapped market in these emerging economies. I also assume that the garments industry will be doing good. Maybe import clothes from China into Brazil.

[OSL]

Oh, right, I forgot somehow about Mrs. Chocolate. In general I've blown off Brazil-related threads but suddenly I'm getting an interest in poring through them.

Mrs. Chocolate, my background is in environment/energy and business/strategy/management. I'm aware that Brazil is sort of lacking in terms of skilled management, which they are generally importing from abroad. Do you know a lot of gringoes who are working in well paid, white collars jobs that do not speak Portuguese?

[Vacancier Permanent]

The part in bold couldn't be further from the truth my friend. Brasil has very high skilled and highly educated management in house, that is Brasilians. Even brasilians that go to the US/Canada/Europe for graduate studies decide not to stay in the West but rather return to their homeland as they will be basically able to write their own salary and have a lifestyle that will be 3 to 5 times that of in the West. As to working LEGALLY for a brasilian company, good luck my friend. The only way you could work legally in Brasil is if you work in the US or Korea for a multinational with branches in Brasil and they send you there. Unless you have brasilian citizenship/residency, you will not be able to get a work permit in Brasil because in Brasil, when a company wants to hire a foreigner, they have to prove to the ministry of labour that there is no brasilian able to fullfill that role and that ain't going to happen, unless we're talking a bout a world class expert in a very technical field.

However, the good news is that the energy/environment field is HUGE in Brasil as they just found the biggest reserves of oil in the world off their coasts. So your best bet to work on your field is to get a position in the US or Korea (I assume you can legally work in Korea being American-Korean) then have your company ship you to their branch in Brasil.

As to learning Portuguese and speaking it fluently in 6-8 months, yes it's possible if you surround yourself with Brasilians and do not speak English with them. If you're seriously thinking of relocating to Brasil, then I'd suggest you start asap taking Brasilian Portuguese (keep that in mind, not Continental Portuguese as the 2 are TOTALLY different) lessons. You could either take a course at a local college or get the Pimsleur Brazilian Portuguese course (you could either buy the 3 level series which go for about $1K or you could download them for free on the torrent sites ).
However, a far more efficient way and by far my favorite way to learn any language as that's how I learned Italian and Portuguese to fluency level is by getting a girl from there teach you privately if you know what I mean...

Good luck man, and choosing Brasil is a very wise choice since IMO Brasil has the whole package: extremely fun location, awesome people, IMO the BEST women on the planet as in having the complete package: fun, sexy, feminine, smart, well behaved and beautiful; breathe-taking scenery and beaches out of this world, endless opportunities business wise, amazing futebol, lots of fun activities to do there (ju-jitsu, capoeira, and any kind of sports you'd want to do, you can in Brasil save the winter ones; drinks and juices to die for. IMO, Brasil will be a top 5 super power by 2020. China may have 5 times the population of Brasil and a fascinating history, but IMO, they will never have the fascination and cultural appeal that Brasil does have worldwide ( as a tiny example of that, just mention that you're from Brasil while abroad and watch girls getting wet instantly and guys giving you high 5s as per my experience). If Brasil plays their cards right, I would even go as far as saying that they could dethrone the US as the world's biggest cultural superpowers. But as our friend Hydro would end, this is only my personal opinion and may or may not turn out this way.

Btw, when are you thinking of making it to Brasil?

P.S. How's the return in the US after being so long in Asia? Like in terms of things being way more expensive, and quality/attitude of girls in NYC vs Asia? Are you having a smooth transition or is it a real challenge? I for one, would definitely believe that my return to NA would be quite challenging after being so spoilt here in BKK/LOS.

(12-22-2010 03:13 PM)youngmobileglobal Wrote:  

Mrs. Chocolate, my background is in environment/energy and business/strategy/management. I'm aware that Brazil is sort of lacking in terms of skilled management, which they are generally importing from abroad. Do you know a lot of gringoes who are working in well paid, white collars jobs that do not speak Portuguese?

[OSL]

Hey, I just got back yesterday so I haven't really hung out with any girls yet. I got the number/email of this hippieish but hot girl on the plane who is studying abroad in China. Somehow my English speaking game has improved while I was spending all that time in Asia. I think being forced to game in Chinese/Korean has subconsciously affected other areas of my game that I haven't quite yet been able to pinpoint. Probably body language and tonality.

The transition is smooth, for now. I'm back at home and everything is clean, efficient, and set up for me. Everything is in English and works perfectly...there are definitely positives to being in the US, I can't lie about that.

That lack of skilled mangement in Brazil comment is something I heard on a 60 minutes story about Brazil, so I wasn't making assumptions about the country or anything. For now, I'm sort of stuck in NY as I'm dealing with a mini crisis over here.

I'm familiar with the NY night scene and not really looking forward to losing entire weekends to binge drinking while depleting my bank account and becoming obese from beer and late night eating. I'm considering branching out into areas that I'm passionate about like hip hop dance and documentary film making. The first topic in prticular is a great way to meet artistic and flexible/hot girls.

If anyone else has their own unique means of naturally drawing girls in their life through activities other than nightclub game, I'd like to hear about it.

Oh, and you are totally right about the "get hooked up with a big company in the US and then get a position in Brazil." I'm looking at companies in my sector that have junior analyst programs where I'd be able to get sent abroad.

The allure of Brazil is almost too much to resist. Ideally I"d do a program which lets me spend a year in NY, a year in China, and a year in Brazil.

[hydrogonian]

(12-22-2010 04:01 PM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:  

But as our friend Hydro would end, this is only my personal opinion and may or may not turn out this way.

haha...I'm glad that we've reached a point where my diplomacy is now implied, and that I can be an opinionated dick with no worries

[Vacancier Permanent]

Since you're back in NY, a good thing to do is to get into the Brasilian culture as there is a massive brasilian colony there. Go on FB and search for groups of Brasileiros in NY. Open a free account at Orkut, the Brasilian FB and make contact this way, attend their events and so forth. Great way to meet cool guys that will invite you to parties, make some nice business contacts for when you get to Brasil and also a gold mine to meeting hot brasileiras. Oh and you could easily pick up Portuguese or get a girl to do a language exchange with you, you help her with learning English and she helps you with Portuguese. The best way to learn Portuguese IMO by far! So doing this, you'd kill 5 birds with one shot so to speak: meet cool guys, make business contacts, meet hot chicks and learn portuguese and learn about Brasil and Brasilian culture from Brasilians. A real win-win situation man.

(12-22-2010 04:28 PM)youngmobileglobal Wrote:  

If anyone else has their own unique means of naturally drawing girls in their life through activities other than nightclub game, I'd like to hear about it.


The allure of Brazil is almost too much to resist. Ideally I"d do a program which lets me spend a year in NY, a year in China, and a year in Brazil.

[Vacancier Permanent]

Are you a Libra by any chance?
That would explain partly your very diplomatic posts. LOL

(12-22-2010 11:12 PM)hydrogonian Wrote:  

(12-22-2010 04:01 PM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:  

But as our friend Hydro would end, this is only my personal opinion and may or may not turn out this way.

haha...I'm glad that we've reached a point where my diplomacy is now implied, and that I can be an opinionated dick with no worries

[OSL]

What I've noticed about Hydro is that he is very committed to defending members of the rooshv forum when new posters come aboard and sort of flame people or flame the forum in general.

VP, amazing idea, will do.

[Aliblahba]

YMG,

I saw the 60 Minutes story about Brasil you were referring to. Interesting shit. I remember the oil tycoon complaining about having to use welders from the U.S. It looks like relations between China and Brasil are picking up, at least for resources. Maybe you could get w/ a company in China and bounce between there and Brasil. Definitely a win-win.

[hydrogonian]

(12-23-2010 02:53 PM)youngmobileglobal Wrote:  

What I've noticed about Hydro is that he is very committed to defending members of the rooshv forum when new posters come aboard and sort of flame people or flame the forum in general.

VP, amazing idea, will do.

deleted

[OSL]

(12-23-2010 05:05 PM)hydrogonian Wrote:  

(12-23-2010 02:53 PM)youngmobileglobal Wrote:  

What I've noticed about Hydro is that he is very committed to defending members of the rooshv forum when new posters come aboard and sort of flame people or flame the forum in general.

VP, amazing idea, will do.

but you have no problem pm'ing me for advice when you need it, dick. nice.

I've gotten into legitimate debates with people here, (that can be counted on one hand. I remember them all) and very rarely I'll get into a hostile argument when I think someone is wrong(once eg: Lumiere?). But they have always been as hard headed as me in those arguments and I don't remember requiring your ass to read anything that I write. I defended Fisto recently and now he has stuck around and made some great contributions. Frankly, people were unnecessarily hostile and a third part perspective was needed. I did it as nicely as possible, and even pm'd the guy who I defended him to afterward to make sure that there was no hard feelings. Were you going to do it? Fisto's few posts have been worth more than all of your posts combined, as far as I can remember, as far as game goes. The ONLY other guy I can remember defending is Jason in the comments section, recently, because I know him personally and know what his reality is. Your flaming accusations are unfounded, imo. Except for right now when I can tell you to go fuck yourself. that's a first for me on this forum.

When I decide to be self deprecating about my politeness and deference to other peoples opinions, no less, that gives you an opening to talk shit? That's some low, low character on your part. I should have kept my mouth shut. I thought everyone here was cooler than to jump on a guy when he intentionally leaves himself vulnerable, out of respect for the theme that we're all as honest as possible. I can be shady, unapologetic and tight lipped too though. Or dishonest and put out the image that I'm the perfect representation of game, knowledge and judgment so that all the newcomers here can worship my balls. Yeah, forum validation. Nice. Maybe that's what I'll do.

oh, and you aren't the only one who pm's me for advice. I spend a lot of time with guys here on this forum, via pm and private email. A LOT of fucking time. You included in the past. that doesn't buy me out of your flame comment? so your a taker, with nothing to give, huh? not even a check on your impulsiveness to talk shit? what a guy.

Wow Hydro, you took my comment completely the wrong way. When I said that, I said it in a sense like "Hydro has our back, Hydro is weeding out douchebags from coming in and trolling the forum."

I don't think I worded my post incorrectly, did I?

"What I've noticed about Hydro is that he is very committed to defending members of the rooshv forum when new posters come aboard and sort of flame people or flame the forum in general."

When I said "flame people or flame the forum in general" I was referring to random people who would come on and say shit like "clearly people on this forum are a bit immature" or something, after which you'd defend rooshv. I wasn't saying that you, HYDRO, are coming onto the forum and trolling anybody, but rather you've been like a community watchdog for douches who come on and start handing out backhanded compliments to the rooshv forum as a whole.

Sorry you misread the message, in my opinion the message I wrote can't really be construed as an insult towards you (rather, it's a compliment) so I'm still a bit confused as to how you construed it as an insult.

Anyway yeah, I've gotten a lot of value out of hydro's PM advice. I'm a bit surpised to see this reaction. The rooshv community as a whole knows that I"m not prone to openly insulting anyone else, even if I disagree with them.

[Mrs. Chocolate]

Oh... Without Portuguese... Uhm... It is hard, I think you should reach first an intermediate level before try. Butthe energy field is huge and there are several industries that you could work with.
Private education it is a hit, but too hard to get in since we dont have many bilingual schools.

[Lief]

The one advantage that Brazil has for an expat is the fact that Brazilians are spenders, not savers like the Chinese. Thus, if you start a business it would be fa easier in Brazil.

However, I know a guy who started a business in Brazil and he needed to get a local partner. Even though Brazil is a western style culture, they have so much corruption that you need a local contact for "jeito."

Consumer credit is growing like crazy in Brazil - imagine the U.S. in the 60's when credit was introduced on a mass scale.

I would choose Brazil unless you're of Chinese decent. You can fit in to the local society whereas in China you would always be an outsider.

[OSL]

One major thing for me is that I am entirely sure that within six months I will reach an advanced or possibly fluent level of Portuguese since I have a background in both Spanish and French.

Despite people in Brazil being open and friendly, it still strikes me as a place where I might have a hard time finding trustable long term business connections. I don't know the lay of the land. Has anyone here worked there before?

[YoungGunner]

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0...-4,00.html

True dat to the statement about Chinese saving money. The reason behind that is bc unlike in the U.S, if they wantonly spend and end up in debt, they're fucked and the government won't help them.

[GiovanniRio]

"Vacancier Permanent" post is right on. I've spend 5 months in China, but decided it was not the place to combine money with the lifestyle I wanted.

The thing is that you can forget about finding a decent job in Brazil if you:
- don't speak fluent Portuguese
- don't have a visa
- no TOP engineer graduation with a specific and needed speciality & work
experience in it.
- no connections

Starting a company here is not an easy one. Count for around 180 days to get it done, and many many issues to get covered. Brazilians love stamps, papers, signatures & more stamps and signatures to confirm it's all official.

Also take into account that Brazilians are creative and if they see your business has success, happily start the same - without having the papers & taxes paid = lower prices.

That's the negative, but very true part of starting an own business here - or searching work. Trust me on this one, I've seen many people as a consultant going back after some hard time here.

BUT the good thing is that there are many opportunities, and more coming on a daily rate thanks to the huge growth & growing spending power of the lower to lower middle-class.

I have 2 successfully companies up & running now, and have many contacts with foreigners starting - or doing the same. if you know the local culture, have the right contacts (VERY important) and the right working attitude, lots of money can be made here. Just don't start without coming over for a while first, learn the market and the culture.

[choichoi]

6 months is about how long it took me to become fluent in Portuguese. It helped that I was already fluent in Spanish and had done in-depth formal and independent studies before I went to study in Brazil, but you need that real-world experience in Brazil to add that extra touch to your skills. You can learn all the vocab and slang in the world but you risk losing it if you don't have something in the real world to associate that knowledge with. All the best to you

[Caramel Communist]

(01-16-2011 01:10 AM)YoungGunner Wrote:  

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0...-4,00.html

True dat to the statement about Chinese saving money. The reason behind that is bc unlike in the U.S, if they wantonly spend and end up in debt, they're fucked and the government won't help them.

China does not have a social safety net like the rest of the western world...it's the reason shit can be made so cheaply.....and China is over leveraging itself as far as capacity. They are constructing giant cities with no ciitizens to just keep ppl working? Google chinese ghost cities. At some point that's gonna come back to haunt them along with the social/environmental challenges......

[hydrogonian]

(12-24-2010 04:38 AM)youngmobileglobal Wrote:  

(12-23-2010 05:05 PM)hydrogonian Wrote:  

(12-23-2010 02:53 PM)youngmobileglobal Wrote:  

What I've noticed about Hydro is that he is very committed to defending members of the rooshv forum when new posters come aboard and sort of flame people or flame the forum in general.

VP, amazing idea, will do.

but you have no problem pm'ing me for advice when you need it, dick. nice.

I've gotten into legitimate debates with people here, (that can be counted on one hand. I remember them all) and very rarely I'll get into a hostile argument when I think someone is wrong(once eg: Lumiere?). But they have always been as hard headed as me in those arguments and I don't remember requiring your ass to read anything that I write. I defended Fisto recently and now he has stuck around and made some great contributions. Frankly, people were unnecessarily hostile and a third part perspective was needed. I did it as nicely as possible, and even pm'd the guy who I defended him to afterward to make sure that there was no hard feelings. Were you going to do it? Fisto's few posts have been worth more than all of your posts combined, as far as I can remember, as far as game goes. The ONLY other guy I can remember defending is Jason in the comments section, recently, because I know him personally and know what his reality is. Your flaming accusations are unfounded, imo. Except for right now when I can tell you to go fuck yourself. that's a first for me on this forum.

When I decide to be self deprecating about my politeness and deference to other peoples opinions, no less, that gives you an opening to talk shit? That's some low, low character on your part. I should have kept my mouth shut. I thought everyone here was cooler than to jump on a guy when he intentionally leaves himself vulnerable, out of respect for the theme that we're all as honest as possible. I can be shady, unapologetic and tight lipped too though. Or dishonest and put out the image that I'm the perfect representation of game, knowledge and judgment so that all the newcomers here can worship my balls. Yeah, forum validation. Nice. Maybe that's what I'll do.

oh, and you aren't the only one who pm's me for advice. I spend a lot of time with guys here on this forum, via pm and private email. A LOT of fucking time. You included in the past. that doesn't buy me out of your flame comment? so your a taker, with nothing to give, huh? not even a check on your impulsiveness to talk shit? what a guy.

Wow Hydro, you took my comment completely the wrong way. When I said that, I said it in a sense like "Hydro has our back, Hydro is weeding out douchebags from coming in and trolling the forum."

I don't think I worded my post incorrectly, did I?

"What I've noticed about Hydro is that he is very committed to defending members of the rooshv forum when new posters come aboard and sort of flame people or flame the forum in general."

When I said "flame people or flame the forum in general" I was referring to random people who would come on and say shit like "clearly people on this forum are a bit immature" or something, after which you'd defend rooshv. I wasn't saying that you, HYDRO, are coming onto the forum and trolling anybody, but rather you've been like a community watchdog for douches who come on and start handing out backhanded compliments to the rooshv forum as a whole.

Sorry you misread the message, in my opinion the message I wrote can't really be construed as an insult towards you (rather, it's a compliment) so I'm still a bit confused as to how you construed it as an insult.

Anyway yeah, I've gotten a lot of value out of hydro's PM advice. I'm a bit surpised to see this reaction. The rooshv community as a whole knows that I"m not prone to openly insulting anyone else, even if I disagree with them.

I was gone a lot of this month, and so just got back to the forums recently. But I misunderstood YMGs post and got defensive. Its easy to misread syntax sometimes. I apologized to him in a PM, deleted my response, and wanted to apologize on the thread. My bad YMG, and thanks for the compliment.

[manilaguy]

What is the play on Brazil?

The country strikes me as another outlet of American capital.
Is Wall street funding Brazil?

The history of said country is that of exploitation. Europeans raped it's soil barren for sugar production, blasted its mountains for minerals, and exported slaves or enslaved locals for cheap production. US comes in and.. well.. we did our business.. but quietly.

What is the play?

The only ones I can think of are commodities. The place seems rife to produce commodities. If I had a mango seed i'd be sure to plant it in brazil and stock the field with generational laborers.

Or finance? Sure, maybe get brasilians to believe that the air they breathe has a price? That water quality can be a convertible tradable derivative? Give them unpayable loans for hydro electric plant? Sell them t-bills? Yeah, now that I think about it.. definitely finance related.. but i'm sure wallstreet is already on that game.

Great thread!

BTW, capoeira classes are a really great way to meet portugese tweens/women.

[manilaguy]

(12-22-2010 09:57 AM)MysticTraveler Wrote:  

(12-22-2010 08:55 AM)Mrs. Chocolate Wrote:  

Well, it depends on which is your work field. IMO, Engineering, Industry, and Economy (Bolsa de Valores) seems to be a good place to get money.

The education sector is an untapped market in these emerging economies. I also assume that the garments industry will be doing good. Maybe import clothes from China into Brazil.

Yeah, a chinese friend of mine is doing exactly this.

A Filipino friend of mine is bringing Brazilian models to model as white girls in Manila.

God bless globalization.