[TheEndTheBeginning]

Alright guys,

I'm 5'11, i weight 250 lbs and look like Denzel washington/will smith. I usually wear a black sweater, jeans, glasses and dress shoes. At the club, when i go up to a woman, some show interest at first but it seems like things fizzle. Its like they just don't give much to work with. I go direct style and it shows good attraction but it seems to die down fast. I try to keep things going but alot of these women don't seem to give much to work with and then these other guys come in not doing much at all and the girl show much more interest or make it easier for them to do stuff. The difference i notice is that they are more dressed out and are white. I go for all race girls. It seems the asian girls seem to not really dig brothers all that much.

How do you guys handle keeping a girl intrigued? For the past 4 years going out, i've only scored two Single Night Lays from my city and i see other guys pulling shit off while i continuously fail. I notice they don't do anything special but the girls show more interested. I tried the indirect style but it just feels unnatural and its confusing and i can't come up with things. Atleast with direct, i can think more clearly and it feels more natural.

I have no problems making the move but it seems like i can't keep things going for too long. Suggestions?

Some people say i come on too strong at first so then i don't do it but then i just tend to bore the chick when i come off too non threatening or when i try to flirt, they seem to get bored easy. I want to get better but it seems very tough and the chicks don't seem to give much interest at all.

[lowbudgetballer]

Ideally make out with them until they are turned on enough to leave with you. The makeout should be a natural progression based on how they enter your space. You may have to move them around a little, but listen to McQueen: going for food will kill the mood.

lowbudgetballer

[TheEndTheBeginning]

My bad, i should be more clear. This is before a makeout even happens, this is talking with them for a few minutes. But how does one make it natural? I can go for it, but i don't know how to have it progress naturally that way if they don't show active interest. They seem to get bored easily. They don't want to move around, they don't put in much in the conversation, they get distracted easy, etc.

I can't get conversations past 5 minutes for most girls. If they're interested, i think i can keep them occupied for a while, but if they're not showing as much active interest its alot harder.

[lowbudgetballer]

Actually, you don't want to be talking. Two common examples. The girl hits the line. When women approach you, they tend to stand a certain marked distance from you, standing, dancing, or looking at you. Usually they hold a certain smile on their face which says proceed. You move in and touch arms or hips and dance. Try to slip one on her cheek, neck, or lips to start.

Second, girls can just radar you, locking eyes with you like a missile and come right up to you. Sometimes they can back in or do other things, but these are not always as serious.

Bear in mind, thee are just my individual experiences. Outside of approach (many times preceded by an indirect invitation such as above), i don't even have any real game.

lowbudgetballer

(01-10-2014 05:49 AM)TheEndTheBeginning Wrote:  

But how does one make it natural? I can go for it, but i don't know how to have it progress naturally that way if they don't show active interest. They seem to get bored easily. They don't want to move around, they don't put in much in the conversation, they get distracted easy, etc. I think my problem is i go for the makeout too soon OR when i try to have things lead to it, they just get bored.

[TheEndTheBeginning]

"Actually, you don't want to be talking. "

Please explain this more while your with her . Its funny you mention it, i tend to kiss girls on the cheek and it seems to ease the tension and do a few of the other things you mentioned when the girl does show some interest. I do feel ya on the radar part at times when im feeling in state or feeling pretty good, the girls seem to have that radar for that brief time...its just having things last with them is tough part.

I think i realized that some of these girls just aren't that into me as much as i think they are or that they like the attention and then just want more.

(01-10-2014 05:59 AM)lowbudgetballer Wrote:  

Actually, you don't want to be talking. Two common examples. The girl hits the line. When women approach you, they tend to stand a certain marked distance from you, standing, dancing, or looking at you. Usually they hold a certain smile on their face which says proceed. You move in and touch arms or hips and dance. Try to slip one on her cheek, neck, or lips to start.

Second, girls can just radar you, locking eyes with you like a missile and come right up to you. Sometimes they can back in or do other things, but these are not always as serious.

Bear in mind, thee are just my individual experiences. Outside of approach (many times preceded by an indirect invitation such as above), i don't even have any real game.

lowbudgetballer

(01-10-2014 05:49 AM)TheEndTheBeginning Wrote:  

But how does one make it natural? I can go for it, but i don't know how to have it progress naturally that way if they don't show active interest. They seem to get bored easily. They don't want to move around, they don't put in much in the conversation, they get distracted easy, etc. I think my problem is i go for the makeout too soon OR when i try to have things lead to it, they just get bored.

[WestIndianArchie]

Little confused

Is the club mixed or primarily white?
Do you see other brothers getting white chicks?
250 muscle or 250 with.flabby arms and a gut?
What kind of music?
What time of night? , before or.after the crowd is tipsy?

How do you open?
Canned or semi canned or 100% freestyle with every.chick?

Age differences?

[TheEndTheBeginning]

(01-10-2014 01:25 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

Little confused

Is the club mixed or primarily white?
Do you see other brothers getting white chicks?
250 muscle or 250 with.flabby arms and a gut?
What kind of music?
What time of night? , before or.after the crowd is tipsy?

How do you open?
Canned or semi canned or 100% freestyle with every.chick?

Age differences?

Yo my fellow brotha. This club is mixed...not too many brothas around tho. I have a gut but people say i look muscular, like a footbal build. The club has techno music. This is around 1AM-2AM, after the crowd is tipsy.

I usually open direct badboy style or sometimes i freestyle it. Many times i've seen women leave with guys, the women have been older. I'm 27 and they've been late 30s, almost 40. Now that i think about it the guys were older too. The other times i've seen girls leave with guys, the guy was with someone else. I did this solo. Its mostly guys there and other guys get shot down there as well.

I seem to have the same problem at cougar bars, except i think i've been the youngest person in there lol. They show interest because of my direct style at first, but i have trouble keeping things going after a few minutes as the "I have to go back to my friends"/"Bathroom" excuse we've heard so many times before. For strategy, i would tell them "Cool...lets go meet them" but after i meet them, things fizzle.

[lowbudgetballer]

Sort of busy right now, so no time to write. No reflection on you whatsoever, just more of an interesting factoid: in spite of Detroit as its birthplace, techno was established to segregate the clubs, essentially to keep Blacks out. Otherwise, clubs would just all play hip hop.

On a quick review, you might update the threads a little, dressing a little nicer, maybe ditching the glasses. My style was fine, but I'm picking up little things from browsing this board. You sound good looking and strong. Who wouldn't like Denzel washington/will smith with bigger muscles. Cultivate a higher-end style through TJ Maxx and Burlington Coat Factory and get jiggy with it. The bulk of the clubs I go into wouldn't even let you in dressed like that.

This is not fully fleshed out, but don't go full-court press, aggressive physical: leave some breathing room and a little potential ambiguity. I don't know what badboy style is, but freestyle it. Do it all by feel, and don't talk yourself out of anything. If you are doing something wrong, they will let you know. Shoot for dogs in the park.

Not everyone is going to like you, make out with you, leave with you. The best way to up your odds is not to worry about who you like: worry about who likes you.

lowbudgetballer

[TheEndTheBeginning]

(01-10-2014 05:53 PM)lowbudgetballer Wrote:  

Sort of busy right now, so no time to write. No reflection on you whatsoever, just more of an interesting factoid: in spite of Detroit as its birthplace, techno was established to segregate the clubs, essentially to keep Blacks out. Otherwise, clubs would just all play hip hop.

On a quick review, you might update the threads a little, dressing a little nicer, maybe ditching the glasses. My style was fine, but I'm picking up little things from browsing this board. You sound good looking and strong. Who wouldn't like Denzel washington/will smith with bigger muscles. Cultivate a higher-end style through TJ Maxx and Burlington Coat Factory and get jiggy with it. The bulk of the clubs I go into wouldn't even let you in dressed like that.

Ah, A higher end clothing style . I have been thinking of rocking a blazer finally. I think its about that time to do that and rock better clothes and go for the clean shaven look again. Plus i tend to get more looks rocking stuff like that in the past.

Quote:

This is not fully fleshed out, but don't go full-court press, aggressive physical: leave some breathing room and a little potential ambiguity. I don't know what badboy style is, but freestyle it. Do it all by feel, and don't talk yourself out of anything. If you are doing something wrong, they will let you know. Shoot for dogs in the park.

Badboy's style is classic direct, getting to know her, being dominant, etc. With doing something wrong, over time i think i've gotten a better grasp. At times, sometimes things just fizzle. Its not always me, sometimes the girl just might not be feeling things. So be it. While others have. But leaving some breathing room, i'll do that and pace myself!

Quote:

Not everyone is going to like you, make out with you, leave with you. The best way to up your odds is not to worry about who you like: worry about who likes you.

lowbudgetballer

I've put myself down so many times over feeling that i failed to where in reality, it just so happened the girl didn't really like me all that much versus me mess things up and for the situations that the girl did like me, there were things i could improve on. And you're right, its time to worry more about who actually does like me and thats where i should focus more of my energy on.

Thanks my man! I feel alot better now.

[lowbudgetballer]

[quote='TheEndTheBeginning' pid='625756' dateline='1389396888']
[quote]
Ah, A higher end clothing style . I have been thinking of rocking a blazer finally. I think its about that time to do that and rock better clothes and go for the clean shaven look again. Plus i tend to get more looks rocking stuff like that in the past.
[/quote]

Dude, may you may not even need a blazer. I'm a bug guy, too. Hit one of those cheaper stores and hook yourself up with a nice Calvin klein button-up shirt or two (good cut). For pants, maybe just get some dark docker-type pairs.

[quote]
Thanks my man! I feel a lot better now.
[/quote]

This stuff was much harder when I was young. We didn't have anywhere to turn. Just hearing David DeAngelo's Sexual Communication, which is probably far-dated now, helped me out.

[lowbudgetballer]

[quote='TheEndTheBeginning' pid='625756' dateline='1389396888']

Ah, A higher end clothing style . I have been thinking of rocking a blazer finally. I think its about that time to do that and rock better clothes and go for the clean shaven look again. Plus i tend to get more looks rocking stuff like that in the past.

btw--i forgot to mention something I learned from this forum: there's a lot of stuff you can't control, but your physical shape and fashion choices--looking your best--are, for the most part, all up to you.

lowbudgetballer

[lowbudgetballer]

Something else I learned from an e-book on dancefloor game: go to places where you feel totally comfortable with the music. Based on this, I do far better in XS than Tao, even though the girls in XS are further up the scale.

lowbudgetballer

[dads]

Just because white people all think we look the same does not mean you can go around saying you look like Denzel Washington and Will Smith

[lowbudgetballer]

(01-10-2014 06:34 PM)TheEndTheBeginning Wrote:  

Ah, A higher end clothing style . I have been thinking of rocking a blazer finally. I think its about that time to do that and rock better clothes and go for the clean shaven look again. Plus i tend to get more looks rocking stuff like that in the past.

Big Willie Style's all in it
Gettin' Jiggy Wit It
Na na na na na na na nana

[TheEndTheBeginning]

Quote:

Dude, may you may not even need a blazer. I'm a bug guy, too. Hit one of those cheaper stores and hook yourself up with a nice Calvin klein button-up shirt or two (good cut). For pants, maybe just get some dark docker-type pairs.

Good stuff son, i'll look into those since i only have a few going out pants to begin with.

In regards to XS, I like that place and Surrender alot! Clubs in Vegas are the perfect training ground to improve game at night since it has all sorts of areas, dance floor area...quiet area...isolation area...etc.

There are too many things outside of our control. Sometimes many girls just aren't interested. Its hard truth to accept sometimes since we put in the effort and the girls seem interested at first until things fizzle and its like "Where did things go wrong?" and we don't realize but many just like the attention and thats all they want.

Quote:

Just because white people all think we look the same does not mean you can go around saying you look like Denzel Washington and Will Smith

Is Nelly or Dr. Dre better than? :-p.

[Statsi]

It sounds like you aren't forcing rejections. Being direct is fine if that's what feels most comfortable, indirect seems to have a higher success rate generally, but direct game makes you feel like an old school player. Girls saying things like 'I'm going to go chat to my friends' sounds likes she's bored. When you say fizzle out it sounds like you aren't building towards anything, you need to be more aggressive.

It's better a girl feels incredibly uncomfortable with you and calls you a creep than she finds you boring. If you're going to be direct then go all out. Open, start touching, and escalate! Sexualize early and hard, either through chat or just resting your hand on her ass. Go for the make out early and aggressively. Direct game will cause you to have way more rejections, and suffer far harsher rejections more often. You will miss out on some lays that more indirect guys would be able to pick up when you spook the girl early on without comfort. The plus side is that you'll have a natural screen for teases and time wasters, indirect guys will spend more time with girls who are simply enjoying their company but won't sleep with them. You should be able to move through approaches at twice the speed of indirect guys.v

So approach often, move with intention and aggression, and force the rejection. Girls that knock you back early in the evening will open you again later when they get horny cause they know you're not fucking around. Good Luck man!

Also the other advice in this thread is good, you can always improve your style, looks, body, and vibe.

[MeshTryOut]

Did you ever consider the idea you are in the wrong 'niche'? I think you are. 2 years ago, I was in a similar situation... then just simply switched to different clubbing scene and whola!, my success rate went strikingly up.

[WestIndianArchie]

Quick Analysis

1. low mix
2. long term - lose the gut. Primarily a what you choose to eat thing, not so much a work out thing. But I don't see this as a problem here
3. Techno - this is a wrinkle for me. EDM is for dancing, but for solo dancing or spectator dancing, but unlike more traditional music - not for partner dancing.
4. time and alcohol level sounds ideal.
5. Open Direct vs. Freestyle - to me these aren't on the opposite sides. (

For you newbs, Badboy style is showing direct interest in a chick by telling her that she's attractive and your interesting. (Bad Boy was an eastern european dude who was injured during some war - anyway, he's the one that got the community into Alpha body language - walking with swagger, sitting on a couch like you own the place...)

For you Mark Manson/"Models" fans - a good book to read kind of a counterpoint to Bang and not nearly as Red Pill as RVF - what direct approaches do is POLARIZE the target. In an instant, she makes a decision about whether or not she wants to fuck you. *technically, this is not new - we've always known this about direct approaches, but polarize is a great and descriptive word.

Newb thinking, "But I thought a girl made that decision in the 1st 5 seconds" If this were truly the case, only guy getting pussy would be George Clooney.

Back to Direct v. Freestyle - Not using canned openers, which is fine. Not sure if you're being indirect, or if indirect is even possible in this environment.

6) folks hooking up are older

This is interesting to me, because I've never seen Old people who listen to EDM. Hell, you might be talking about my demographic, haha. In which case I do see it, but we're not even at the same club with 21 year olds.

7) Mostly guys there - sausage fest, tilted towards women choosiness.

Sausage fests don't mean a lot of competition, they do mean a lot of obstacles and friction. 100 guys, 40 girls, i'd say only 20 dudes are going to actively socializing and making approaches. But they have to fight through the orbiters to spit at these chicks. And there are plenty of vulture players who wait for a dude to fail and then "grey" knight in by opening the chick with the last dude's fumble.

*can't say that I haven't done this....

That's the main problem here
- bad game
- followed by better game/bunch of guys not willing to be bold and courageous - until the liquor kicks in.

But if dudes are pulling, i'd say keep going.

Getting down to the Nitty Gritty

8) Game analysis
- you can lose some weight
- you can tweak your fashion/style/clothing

^Both of these things increase your passive attraction game. But just like height and face, or shows of wealth - they're just a lures that attract the fish, not the hook or the line and reel.

- I can't speak on the Race factor. In a cowboy bar, you need to be a certain kind of black guy to pull. At a hip hop club, you can be yourself. At a corporate mixer - you've got to ferret out the kind of dude she wants.

But EDM, the broughams that I've seen kill it - great dancers, dj's, promoters. That option may not be open to you.

You also said that the chicks looking to bang, are older. But they're choosing even older white guys....

Weigh that against these chicks being initially attracted to your direct style, but then begging off as you run out of rap.

So it appears to me, you're doing okay on the
a) fearless front
b) ability to open

But you're failing in the further attraction building (the non-visual aspect).

In terms of your freestyle...

Are you running some variation of the Notorious "Big Poppa"?
- what your interests are
- who are you
- who are your friends
- things that make em smile
- number close
- seed and promise a bounce location?

Cause at some point they're open enough to be opened, but whatever you launch into next is where they beg off.

So either you're not coming off as congruent with your initial vibe, soft fail. Or your following rap is offensive, a hard fail.

Are you so direct that she assumes that all you want to do is fuck? And you'll just fuck any chick that gets close to you? Sometimes, that i'm just trying to pound you back at my Mama's crib doesn't turn chicks on.

Old school rule was that a chick wants you 15 minutes after you want her. (and the corollary is that you want the relationship 15 minutes after she doesn't...haha)

But it could be that even if you open well, and she's with a little hokey pokey, something else is bothering her aside from your directness.

Prescription

You have to figure out if you're scaring the cat, cause you're trying to ram her in as fast as possible.

Vibe goes from "you're hot, let's fuck" to 'hey you're cute, i'd like to know you better"

But if it's that your rap is fading second by second, you need to run more attraction material to feel them out and pump their juices a bit.

So you step up, say your opener, and if she bites, follow with more jokes and stories to show personality, then slowly get her to invest until she volunteers information and is open to more open ended questions.

And a 3rd proviso - On sex talk in the transition/attraction stage after the opener., I don't do double entendre per se. There will be no "And that's what she said" showing up when I spit game. If i'm going to talk sex in an opener, i'm going to misdirect.

WIA - "you know what they say about a man with big feet"
Chick - "what?" or "that he has a big..
WIA - "that he often has a hard time finding good shoes...what the hell were you thinking..." - and then from their pretend to be offended, and that she's the perv.

So to recap
- figure out what's up with your vibe.

Either the chicks think you're slimy and just want to fuck em.
Or you're not as interesting as you seem when you continue to talk.

WIA


The 4th issue might be you're not seeding the bounce location when you talk to their group. If you don't have an after party in mind, or better options post club, you'll lose crucial mack time.

(01-10-2014 04:52 PM)TheEndTheBeginning Wrote:  

I seem to have the same problem at cougar bars, except i think i've been the youngest person in there lol. They show interest because of my direct style at first, but i have trouble keeping things going after a few minutes as the "I have to go back to my friends"/"Bathroom" excuse we've heard so many times before. For strategy, i would tell them "Cool...lets go meet them" but after i meet them, things fizzle.

[TheEndTheBeginning]

(01-12-2014 10:19 AM)Statsi Wrote:  

It sounds like you aren't forcing rejections. Being direct is fine if that's what feels most comfortable, indirect seems to have a higher success rate generally, but direct game makes you feel like an old school player. Girls saying things like 'I'm going to go chat to my friends' sounds likes she's bored. When you say fizzle out it sounds like you aren't building towards anything, you need to be more aggressive.

I think i sometimes might over do the aggressiveness. Course if she's kinda taking warming up, i tone the aggressiveness down. Fuck, these days i've definitely been encountering more girls who just dont open up much.

Quote:

It's better a girl feels incredibly uncomfortable with you and calls you a creep than she finds you boring. If you're going to be direct then go all out. Open, start touching, and escalate! Sexualize early and hard, either through chat or just resting your hand on her ass.

I read this and thought "But what if I scare too many away" That explains it. The places i go to, just doesn't seem to be enough chicks to go around. No wonder i haven't adopted this mindset lately. There's been less abundance mentality. Thats the shit i alway want to do haha. I do have to say off the bat, i do tend to kiss girls on the cheek, and touch them off the bat.

Quote:

Go for the make out early and aggressively. Direct game will cause you to have way more rejections, and suffer far harsher rejections more often. You will miss out on some lays that more indirect guys would be able to pick up when you spook the girl early on without comfort. The plus side is that you'll have a natural screen for teases and time wasters, indirect guys will spend more time with girls who are simply enjoying their company but won't sleep with them. You should be able to move through approaches at twice the speed of indirect guys.

I just gotta make sure its a venue with lots of chicks as otherwise i'd run out fast lol.

Quote:

So approach often, move with intention and aggression, and force the rejection. Girls that knock you back early in the evening will open you again later when they get horny cause they know you're not fucking around. Good Luck man!

Also the other advice in this thread is good, you can always improve your style, looks, body, and vibe.

Thanks my man! I'm definitely jotting down as many notes as i can and open with all the advice.

[TheEndTheBeginning]

MeshTryOu Wrote:

Did you ever consider the idea you are in the wrong 'niche'? I think you are. 2 years ago, I was in a similar situation... then just simply switched to different clubbing scene and whola!, my success rate went strikingly up.

Now that I think about it....I actually did my best in places that were more my niche, more multicultural, age demographic was similar to me(i'm 27 but from 23 to 33ish), some girls just dancing and having fun, etc. Thats a good point my man! I didn't think of it that way

(01-12-2014 11:24 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

Quick Analysis

1. low mix
2. long term - lose the gut. Primarily a what you choose to eat thing, not so much a work out thing. But I don't see this as a problem here
3. Techno - this is a wrinkle for me. EDM is for dancing, but for solo dancing or spectator dancing, but unlike more traditional music - not for partner dancing.
4. time and alcohol level sounds ideal.
5. Open Direct vs. Freestyle - to me these aren't on the opposite sides. (

For you newbs, Badboy style is showing direct interest in a chick by telling her that she's attractive and your interesting. (Bad Boy was an eastern european dude who was injured during some war - anyway, he's the one that got the community into Alpha body language - walking with swagger, sitting on a couch like you own the place...)

I really like his style as it gets u feeling in a more manly state too lol. I def need to lose the gut for my own well being.

Quote:

Back to Direct v. Freestyle - Not using canned openers, which is fine. Not sure if you're being indirect, or if indirect is even possible in this environment.

I use some direct canned openers but its to the point where i just say what i feel without thinking about it these days.

Quote:

6) folks hooking up are older

This is interesting to me, because I've never seen Old people who listen to EDM. Hell, you might be talking about my demographic, haha. In which case I do see it, but we're not even at the same club with 21 year olds.

Actually most of the time, it is chicks that aren't older. In a cougar i frequented alot a few chicks now and then will leave with a guy.

Quote:

7) Mostly guys there - sausage fest, tilted towards women choosiness.

Sausage fests don't mean a lot of competition, they do mean a lot of obstacles and friction. 100 guys, 40 girls, i'd say only 20 dudes are going to actively socializing and making approaches. But they have to fight through the orbiters to spit at these chicks. And there are plenty of vulture players who wait for a dude to fail and then "grey" knight in by opening the chick with the last dude's fumble.

*can't say that I haven't done this....

That's the main problem here
- bad game
- followed by better game/bunch of guys not willing to be bold and courageous - until the liquor kicks in.

But if dudes are pulling, i'd say keep going.

The ratio has got to be atleast 2.5 :1 in most nights lol. most guys just stand around. Actually most of the dudes there don't get far at all.

Quote:

You also said that the chicks looking to bang, are older. But they're choosing even older white guys....

I've seen this quite a few times.

Quote:

Weigh that against these chicks being initially attracted to your direct style, but then begging off as you run out of rap.

So it appears to me, you're doing okay on the
a) fearless front
b) ability to open

But you're failing in the further attraction building (the non-visual aspect).

In terms of your freestyle...

Are you running some variation of the Notorious "Big Poppa"?
- what your interests are
- who are you
- who are your friends
- things that make em smile
- number close
- seed and promise a bounce location?

Cause at some point they're open enough to be opened, but whatever you launch into next is where they beg off.

Yessir! Thats pretty much my style of what i usually go for talking about. Just getting to know them for who are you. Who are they with, etc. What their logistics are. Just making regular conversation along the way and the occasional flirting. That's where i think i show my personality at when i'm enjoying myself.

Quote:

So either you're not coming off as congruent with your initial vibe, soft fail. Or your following rap is offensive, a hard fail.

Are you so direct that she assumes that all you want to do is fuck? And you'll just fuck any chick that gets close to you? Sometimes, that i'm just trying to pound you back at my Mama's crib doesn't turn chicks on.

Old school rule was that a chick wants you 15 minutes after you want her. (and the corollary is that you want the relationship 15 minutes after she doesn't...haha)

But it could be that even if you open well, and she's with a little hokey pokey, something else is bothering her aside from your directness.

I think its in particular with the ones that have to open up. I'm stumped as its hard for me to really continue things if they don't open themselves up much.

Quote:

Prescription

You have to figure out if you're scaring the cat, cause you're trying to ram her in as fast as possible.

Vibe goes from "you're hot, let's fuck" to 'hey you're cute, i'd like to know you better"

But if it's that your rap is fading second by second, you need to run more attraction material to feel them out and pump their juices a bit.

So you step up, say your opener, and if she bites, follow with more jokes and stories to show personality, then slowly get her to invest until she volunteers information and is open to more open ended questions.

How does one do that? I've never really been good at interesting stories and jokes except for flirting where i def can get them to laugh with those types.

Quote:

And a 3rd proviso - On sex talk in the transition/attraction stage after the opener., I don't do double entendre per se. There will be no "And that's what she said" showing up when I spit game. If i'm going to talk sex in an opener, i'm going to misdirect.

WIA - "you know what they say about a man with big feet"
Chick - "what?" or "that he has a big..
WIA - "that he often has a hard time finding good shoes...what the hell were you thinking..." - and then from their pretend to be offended, and that she's the perv.

I like doing the misdirection at times too lol. Like she's the one with naughty thoughts haha. Stuff like that i have fun with.

Quote:

So to recap
- figure out what's up with your vibe.

Either the chicks think you're slimy and just want to fuck em.
Or you're not as interesting as you seem when you continue to talk.

WIA

I think it relates to their interest level. If they show moderate interest, i think that interesting side of myself naturally shows. But if she needs to get opened more, i have a much tougher time since i have less to work with kinda thing.

Quote:

The 4th issue might be you're not seeding the bounce location when you talk to their group. If you don't have an after party in mind, or better options post club, you'll lose crucial mack time.

Please explain the seeding part more , i put it out there but i dont think its seeding tho.
I don't have the after party deal only because. Plus my logistics aren't too good to begin with(I live 40 min from city)

Oh yea and thanks for the long reply my man and advice!

[TheEndTheBeginning]

Also, I just need to go to a place where the chicks are a bit more fun too. These days, i've been going to places where it feels like a chore just to try to game them versus a place where its more fun to do it.. Plus i know girls need warming up, but course i should have fun doing it too. NYC might be a good training ground to try it out.