[speakeasy]

Even though there's good music from other countries too, especially Latin America, there's no question that the US and UK absolutely crush the rest of the world in musical innovation and leading trends. If you made a list of the 50 best bands in history, 90% of them would be from either the US or UK, which is remarkable considering that there are 300 other countries and we only make up a combined 6% or so of the global population.

Second to colonialism, I think the success of US/UK music is why English is so widely understood around the world. Yet many think these two countries are culturally devoid.

[Slim Shady]

I personally live and breathe rock and roll, but you are not very correct. First, the number of countries is closer to 200, not 300. Second, the reson US/UK music became so popular is in great part due to the countries/ power in the 50's, and even as a lot of countries were liberated then, they were still finding their own identity. What the US did has been considered "cool" in most of the rest of the world for a while, and thus young people globally latched on to it, making the trends popular. Otherwise, the only "American" music is probably Jazz. Most other music really came out of Indian and African influences. Indian Classical music is probably one of the scientifically most pure and emotion evoking forms of music. Just ask the Beatles, the Doors, or most great rockers in history.

[KorbenDallas]

Sure American bands and UK bands have been influenced by lots of things. Power and wealth might have had something to do with it, making it possible for more people to go into music, while, in other countries everyone was just trying to survive.

It def has something to do with America being a melting pot. America is an immigrant culture and in the last 50 years has been pretty open to anything. With food, America kind of takes the best from everywhere and puts its unique spin on it. Maybe its the same way with music? Freedom of speech might have something to do with it too? I don't know I'm not a music expert. I think a small part of it is if you're an American you'll never hear other countries music, but American music is exported everywhere.

[Excelsior]

(12-03-2013 03:05 AM)speakeasy Wrote:  

Even though there's good music from other countries too, especially Latin America, there's no question that the US and UK absolutely crush the rest of the world in musical innovation and leading trends. If you made a list of the 50 best bands in history, 90% of them would be from either the US or UK, which is remarkable considering that there are 300 other countries and we only make up a combined 6% or so of the global population.

Second to colonialism, I think the success of US/UK music is why English is so widely understood around the world. Yet many think these two countries are culturally devoid.

My answer? African-Americans.

African Americans are a musically gifted population. They are pretty much responsible for creating Jazz, Blues and Rock & Roll, genres that form the basis for most of the popular music across the globe in the recent past and in the present. The Jamaicans are the ones who can take credit for Hip-Hop and Reggae, but even those had some strong jazz influences. Most of the most iconic British musicians (ex: The Beatles) took their influences directly from African-Americans or indirectly from musical forms (ex: Rock and Roll) that had been created by African Americans.

To put it simply, African-Americans have a freakish ability to regularly produce musical sounds/styles that resonate on a global scale with people of just about every background. I'm not sure there's another group in recent history that has managed to wield and spread that much global cultural influence without employing any of the traditional means of spreading that influence (ex: no colonialism, no armies, no real legal compulsion, etc, etc). Even people who generally had no love for African Americans and/or not contact with them (ex: White Americans who embraced Rock and Roll in the mid 20th Century, modern East Asians who've embraced jazz/funk/pop/rap in their mainstream music, etc) seem unable to resist mimicking them. Their culture is just magnetic.

I think its the presence of this particularly musically gifted population in the USA that has helped that nation dominate the global music scene. The USA is home to arguably the most musically magnetic and innovative population on Earth, and thus tends to lead in that regard.

The UK benefited from its unusually close relationship to the USA (one that facilitated the inspiration and rise of groups like The Beatles) and its possession of arguably the globe's second most musically gifted and magnetic population (Jamaicans). That explains its co-dominance, IMO.

[Windom Earle]

If we're talking guitar based music, which I guess we are, then acknowledgment has to go to one of the most innovative inventors/designers in the musical instrument industry - Leo Fender... and Les Paul should probably get a mention too.

So, the US had these cutting edge instruments (both guitars and amplifiers) right in their backyard from the outset of rock n roll taking off, which no doubt facilitated experimentation into this new territory. Being a predominantly Anglo pursuit, their UK cousins were putting their own spin on it too. Enter the British Invasion, and a healthy dose of one-upmanship and you've got a recipe for progression and the ongoing creation of "better" music.

[muc]

The business-side probably plays a role. UK and US have always been more entrepreneurial.. perhaps they just figured out how to produce hits quicker? And how to distribute them more widely and efficiently? Also there was the cold-war. With the US being the mother-country of western values. Which also meant that most people learned English and were interested in the culture. And as for US-music, African-Americans play a huge role. Basically 90% of good US-music is black. (Unless you like Country music I guess.) UK is different.

[quino_16]

(12-03-2013 03:05 AM)speakeasy Wrote:  

Even though there's good music from other countries too, especially Latin America, there's no question that the US and UK absolutely crush the rest of the world in musical innovation and leading trends. If you made a list of the 50 best bands in history, 90% of them would be from either the US or UK, which is remarkable considering that there are 300 other countries and we only make up a combined 6% or so of the global population.

Second to colonialism, I think the success of US/UK music is why English is so widely understood around the world. Yet many think these two countries are culturally devoid.

What about Bach, Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Brahms, Verdi, Wagner, etc.?

[Brez]

Affrican americans musicaly gifted? You think rhyming about popping a cap in my white ass is a gift? They're idiots if anything

[speakeasy]

(12-03-2013 07:00 AM)Brez Wrote:  

Affrican americans musicaly gifted? You think rhyming about popping a cap in my white ass is a gift? They're idiots if anything

Damn, didn't even make it to ten replies before this became a race thread.

[Slim Shady]

Heavy Troll alert I think. From Ellington, Armstrong, Hooker, Berry, Hendrix, Pac, Biggie, Nas. I shouldn't even go through the names and entertain the troll

[Ocelot]

(12-03-2013 04:29 AM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

(12-03-2013 03:05 AM)speakeasy Wrote:  

Even though there's good music from other countries too, especially Latin America, there's no question that the US and UK absolutely crush the rest of the world in musical innovation and leading trends. If you made a list of the 50 best bands in history, 90% of them would be from either the US or UK, which is remarkable considering that there are 300 other countries and we only make up a combined 6% or so of the global population.

Second to colonialism, I think the success of US/UK music is why English is so widely understood around the world. Yet many think these two countries are culturally devoid.

My answer? African-Americans.

African Americans are a musically gifted population. They are pretty much responsible for creating Jazz, Blues and Rock & Roll, genres that form the basis for most of the popular music across the globe in the recent past and in the present. The Jamaicans are the ones who can take credit for Hip-Hop and Reggae, but even those had some strong jazz influences. Most of the most iconic British musicians (ex: The Beatles) took their influences directly from African-Americans or indirectly from musical forms (ex: Rock and Roll) that had been created by African Americans.

To put it simply, African-Americans have a freakish ability to regularly produce musical sounds/styles that resonate on a global scale with people of just about every background. I'm not sure there's another group in recent history that has managed to wield and spread that much global cultural influence without employing any of the traditional means of spreading that influence (ex: no colonialism, no armies, no real legal compulsion, etc, etc). Even people who generally had no love for African Americans and/or not contact with them (ex: White Americans who embraced Rock and Roll in the mid 20th Century, modern East Asians who've embraced jazz/funk/pop/rap in their mainstream music, etc) seem unable to resist mimicking them. Their culture is just magnetic.

I think its the presence of this particularly musically gifted population in the USA that has helped that nation dominate the global music scene. The USA is home to arguably the most musically magnetic and innovative population on Earth, and thus tends to lead in that regard.

The UK benefited from its unusually close relationship to the USA (one that facilitated the inspiration and rise of groups like The Beatles) and its possession of arguably the globe's second most musically gifted and magnetic population (Jamaicans). That explains its co-dominance, IMO.

I'd agree it's to do with the Black population (also due to the simple cultural dominance of the US/UK over the last century), but actually for a different reason. I don't think musical "gift" is related to race at all, but the musical heritage black people brought to Europe and the USA was better suited to the changing purposes and market for music.

If you think back 200 years, what was music used for? Ballroom dances, opera, artistic performances that would last 2-4 hours, most of which were largely enjoyed by the upper classes of society. Chamber music was performed by groups of friends in a home setting. The focal point of European classical music was melody, complex harmony and thematic development. The most "popular" music would probably have been the music sung at church.

With the advance of recording technology and the advent of things like the radio and playback devices, music became a commodity for mass consumption. The average person doesn't want to listen to a 2 hour symphony, they want something short and memorable that they can sing along with and that's easy to dance to. In comes the African influence, with a focus on groove and rhythm; instantly marketable, and perfectly suited to settings like bars and clubs. All the businessmen had to do was package it for a black audience, then repackage it for a white audience (lol Elvis) and enjoy the immediate cash flow.

(12-03-2013 04:33 AM)Windom Earle Wrote:  

If we're talking guitar based music, which I guess we are, then acknowledgment has to go to one of the most innovative inventors/designers in the musical instrument industry - Leo Fender... and Les Paul should probably get a mention too.

So, the US had these cutting edge instruments (both guitars and amplifiers) right in their backyard from the outset of rock n roll taking off, which no doubt facilitated experimentation into this new territory. Being a predominantly Anglo pursuit, their UK cousins were putting their own spin on it too. Enter the British Invasion, and a healthy dose of one-upmanship and you've got a recipe for progression and the ongoing creation of "better" music.

Don't forget Robert Moog either! Synths changed the face of modern music probably as much as the guitar.

(12-03-2013 07:00 AM)Brez Wrote:  

Affrican americans musicaly gifted? You think rhyming about popping a cap in my white ass is a gift? They're idiots if anything

Art Tatum, Miles Davis, Herbie Hancock, John Coltrane, B.B. King, Freddie King, Albert King, Jimi Hendrix, Michael Jackson, Prince, Aretha Franklin, Nina Simone, Stevie Wonder, Tosin Abasi, Stanley Jordan... need I go on?

[Ocelot]

delete

[Mentavious]

Break down some UK hip hop and R&B artists.

What about blues rock?

Is country an American thing or is it worldwide?

[roberto]

Sorry, us Brits gonna claim some credit for country also! That started in the Appalachian Mountains, a kind of fusion of folk music (from Scottish/Irish music) plus gospel (from the former slaves).

Lots of country music is still intertwined with folk. Mary Chapin Carpenter- is she folk or country? Steve Earle's collaborations with Sharon Shannon. Brit folk band Mumford and Sons did a tour with old time country band Old Crow Medicine show. It's all interlinked.

But yeah, rock and roll relies heavily upon African-American influence.

[bojangles]

The top 10 greatest rock bands are mostly British and it's nothing to do with their race. The USA does better with solo artists rather than bands. The UK even manufactures better pop bands but the Americans kill it in the solo pop market.

Off the top of my head, top UK bands

Beatles, Rolling Stones, Queen, The Police, The Kinks, Black Sabbath, The Who, Oasis, Blur, The Clash, The Stone Roses, Led Zeppelin, Iron Maiden, Deep Purple, The Smiths, muse, arctic monkeys, franz Ferdinand, sex pistols.

North Americans dominate in the solo though in comparison with the exceptional singers who are backed by great writers. Elvis, Marvin, Mariah, Celine Dion, Whitney etc etc you could go on through the ages.

I rate the bands higher personally, as they create and write their own music of course.

[bojangles]

Avicii smashed it worldwide with his country dance song this year ?

[Blaster]

(12-03-2013 07:34 AM)Ocelot Wrote:  

If you think back 200 years, what was music used for? Ballroom dances, opera, artistic performances that would last 2-4 hours, most of which were largely enjoyed by the upper classes of society. Chamber music was performed by groups of friends in a home setting. The focal point of European classical music was melody, complex harmony and thematic development. The most "popular" music would probably have been the music sung at church.

With the advance of recording technology and the advent of things like the radio and playback devices, music became a commodity for mass consumption. The average person doesn't want to listen to a 2 hour symphony, they want something short and memorable that they can sing along with and that's easy to dance to. In comes the African influence, with a focus on groove and rhythm; instantly marketable, and perfectly suited to settings like bars and clubs. All the businessmen had to do was package it for a black audience, then repackage it for a white audience (lol Elvis) and enjoy the immediate cash flow.

I would add that even before recording technology, it was the growth and economic strength of the middle class during the 19th century, particularly in the US and UK, that set the stage for popular music. Add to that in the US a stronger anti-aristocratic sentiment and rejection of European highbrow music and you got parlor songs, one of the earliest forms of modern pop music ("Oh Susanna" etc).

The packaging-repackaging dynamic of Black music is certainly very old. But it's probably a slight oversimplification to suggest that American popular music is basically re-packaging Black music. It's not like the Black musical innovators weren't trained in European musical styles and influenced by European music. Scott Joplin was trained by a German. John Coltrane studied with an Italian. And so on. It's the combination of the two that really made the difference, I think.

[Slim Shady]

Freddie Mercury was Indian.

[Vicious]

I don't think it has anything to do with some particular affinity for music in the US/UK.

People like music in their own language. Guess what language the most popular music in the Spanish charts are? Spanish. Shocking, right?

[MHaes]

(12-03-2013 08:02 AM)bojangles Wrote:  

Beatles, Rolling Stones, Queen, The Police, The Kinks, Black Sabbath, The Who, Oasis, Blur, The Clash, The Stone Roses, Led Zeppelin, Iron Maiden, Deep Purple, The Smiths, muse, arctic monkeys, franz Ferdinand, sex pistols.

Yeah but we have Hall & Oates.

[The Beast1]

I was going to say, I think the Germans and Austrians have the best musicians. Music that has stood the test of time. I see the Beatles being forgotten or more correctly viewed as a cultural relic of a bygone era.

[Blaster]

(12-03-2013 08:37 AM)Vicious Wrote:  

I don't think it has anything to do with some particular affinity for music in the US/UK.

People like music in their own language. Guess what language the most popular music in the Spanish charts are? Spanish. Shocking, right?

According to this quick search result: Italy Singles Top 50

The list includes Lady Gaga, The Black-Eyed Peas, Ke$ha, Jay-Z, Alicia Keys, Robbie Williams, Rihanna, Akon, Mika, Shakira, Michael Buble, and Natalie Imbruglia.

How many Italian performers singing Italian show up on English charts?

[bojangles]

(12-03-2013 09:38 AM)Blaster Wrote:  

(12-03-2013 08:37 AM)Vicious Wrote:  

I don't think it has anything to do with some particular affinity for music in the US/UK.

People like music in their own language. Guess what language the most popular music in the Spanish charts are? Spanish. Shocking, right?

According to this quick search result: Italy Singles Top 50

The list includes Lady Gaga, The Black-Eyed Peas, Ke$ha, Jay-Z, Alicia Keys, Robbie Williams, Rihanna, Akon, Mika, Shakira, Michael Buble, and Natalie Imbruglia.

How many Italian performers singing Italian show up on English charts?

Songs with English lyrics will top most charts around the world regardless of language. For example the best selling UK single this year is by Swedish DJ Avicii - Wake Me Up.

That song hit number 1 on singles charts in Austria, Bulgaria, Belgium, Brazil, Czech, Croatia, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Italy, Lebanon, Luxembourg, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Slovakia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Venezuela.

It's also been number 1 in all the Anglo countries (Oz, NZ, UK, Ireland, Canada) bar the USA.

[WestIndianArchie]

Cultural colonialism via capitalism

Music, film, art, architecture, the winners get to write history and marginalize other cultures.

It's not inherent merit for sure

WIA

[Bill]

I think the UK was somekind of the beginning of the melting pot. First the English themself originally are a mix of different european cultures. Then comes the Empire where the English learnd to manage different world cultures. So it had an effect on their understanding and tolerance for different music.

The USA is much more of a melting pot so it´s no surprize that through good management the different cultures could work together and create something new.

The African Americans had not the high culture but a dance culture which came from Africa. This might have to do with the hot climate and high tesosterone.

So African Americans had always a special ear for danceable music. Same with the blacks in Brasil. This was their main playground. As dance and dance music are very natural all world could easily understand and appreciate the music. Though many cultures dislike dance as it can lead to sex and the demise of the culture.

But capitalism and democracy made it possible that dance music would be acceptable.

As I am a dancing guy I see the influence of the African Americans in dance music. But in the matter of sophisticated music things may be totally different.