[2Wycked]

What would drive a man to white knight?

We have seen many men come onto ROK and post dumb shit about being pro-feminist, respectful of women, etc.

To me, sex = female approval for most men, so I don't see sex as the end goal, as I think white knights are chasing female approval.

Further I think white knights see women as inferior to men, and so they feel they need to protect the poor women from the consequences of their words or actions. They end of getting burned by women because they remind women how little they think of themselves, so white knights present them an opportunity to burn off their self hatred.

What are your personal theories on the social phenomenon? I still the same dumbasses, on Facebook & in real life, still playing this simp game into their mid to late 20's. Seems like women tolerate white-knighting from young men but seem to expect them to grow out of it after college/getting a job/married.

Thoughts?

[Tuthmosis]

Do you mean like this little hero, who has subsequently deleted a series of escalating threats he tweeted to me, like the one below, over my pictorial article on ROK just today?





He added that he was going to call the police and "report me" if I didn't answer him immediately with my "phone number" so he could talk to me directly. He followed that up with several more menacing threats and insults. He also claimed that one of the girls in the article was his "girlfriend," despite the fact that his Facebook status (as one of my followers pointed out) listed him as single and there were zero pictures of him with any of those girls (or anyone even approaching their level of attractiveness).



A little poking around on his twitter feed made it obvious he was white knighting for No. 16 on my list, Catherine. She's since locked her tweets--and therefore her half of the conversation below--but you can tell from his half that his white knighting isn't working. In fact, it's had the opposite effect. His thirst is laid bare for the world to see.









What drives "men" to white knight? The same thing that drives men to do everything they do: the prospect of pussy. White knighting is just the most pathetic method, because it's hypocritical, weak, and ineffective. Girls see right through it, and despise the stench of desperation and weakness that it emits.

   

[Vendetta]

Yeah, it's just part of the Disney indoctrination into the world where a woman aspires to be a Princess and a male aspires to be a Prince. The Prince saves and protects the Princess from evil. I think it's just a legacy of that childhood brainwashing mixed with a typical AFC's inability to control his dating life. He asks his brain for a solution to his problem of "no women in my life" and the brain responds as it's been programmed to do, "be the Prince! Save her!"

You see it reinforced in the media all the time, especially on bogus holidays like Valentine's - it's a culture that helps to sell things like flowers, cards and diamonds.

We know in reality it doesn't work but your average AFC/Beta schlub has no clue.

It's belief in the powerful media image of how male / female relationships are "supposed" to be.

Shit like this:

[WestIndianArchie]

They think it will work. Especially based on years of media and cultural reinforcement. They just happen to be wrong.

It takes something traumatic and an internet search for answers to bring them to the light. You still see shades of that mentality here, it's very hard to shake.

WIA

[bacon]

I have to assume a large chunk of these white knights are products of:

a) single mother home with little to no relationship with dad

- the son is repeatedly told from an early age how their father was an asshole and piece of shit from his mom. This intern causes these guys to want to do the opposite of their father foolishly believing women want nice guys.

b) two parent household with a dominant mother and very beta father

-this type of relationship could be a woman who found a beta to marry her right before spinsterhood or a guy who feel in love with a girl but she changed on him after marriage into a bitch and he wanting to avoid the financial pain of divorce just gives in to her controlling bitchy ways. I think for a son to witness his own father be a bitch/submissive to his mom this creates a template in his mind of how relationships are supposed to function and he takes that to heart with his own courtship style with women.

[Thomas the Rhymer]

Judging from what much older men than me say about the relationship between the sexes, it appears that white knighting was once effective in getting a girlfriend.

It appears to have been most effective in the aftermath of World War Two, where there clearly was a sudden worldwide shortage of decent men (especially in the white community) who were willing to provide for women who had just endured much scarcity. It gradually became less effective as the decades progressed, and I think the last white knights to have gotten laid through this strategy where probably church goers in the 1980's.

I think this one of the reasons that the red pill is somewhat hard to swallow - the heuristics we inherited from our parents worked once upon a time, especially for men that wanted stable family lives with children.

Our grandparents and parents taught us to pedestalise women because that's what worked for them, but now the rules of the game have changed and even if you don't want to be a player you have to act like one just to get a girlfriend. But everyone is shocked that the rules have changed and people are pretending that they haven't.

2 generations from now the pendulum might swing all the way back, and the guys who inherited from us our game heuristics will suddenly find that they are not working anymore, through the sheer power of evolution - sluts are not going to breed anything except cats, so that behaviour is gradually going to breed itself out as the feminine, caring women are going to pop out more feminine girls and so gradually change society. That generation of women could very well select for white knights instead. Only time will tell.

[AnonymousBosch]

I was going to say access to pussy, but thought that was too simple a reduction.

Then I was going to say chivalry, but thought, no, that's still really about access to pussy.

A little more thought on the matter, and I've concluded that White Knights are simply men who are either hopelessly-naive or in willful-denial about the true nature of women.

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

As I have once said, most nice guys are actually really nice and there's nothing about them that's manipulative as per the comic that Tuthmosis linked. I have no problem with them and feel only pity when girls try rationalizing how "secretly bad" they are.

However, white knights are (among other groups) mainly nice guys who have no empathy for their fellow men and are thus willing (or eager) to throw them under the bus. IMO, if any subset of nice guys can be called dishonest, it is primarily dishonest towards other men, not women. That's what makes them really despicable.

Of course, there are other kinds of white knights that are even worse - parasitic Alphas, like celebrities who have 1M-15F orgies behind the stage and then spread bullshit about how "they really value intelligence and self-confidence in women", or men who don't really care about getting sex, but will jump onto the men-hating bandwagon just for the chance to be acknowledged as "righteous" or "intellectual". In comparison to these two groups, "nice guy white knights" are actually rather tame.

[AnonymousBosch]

(11-28-2013 02:41 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

As I have once said, most nice guys are actually really nice and there's nothing about them that's manipulative as per the comic that Tuthmosis linked. I have no problem with them and feel only pity when girls try rationalizing how "secretly bad" they are.

This is all that is happening:

1. "Why can't I meet a nice guy?"

2. Meets a nice guy, isn't attracted.

3. Doesn't tell him this outright, either to protect her self-image that she's a 'nice girl', or she believes outright that the emotions of men are unimportant as they only exist to serve the whims of women, and she'll always have a ready supply of suitors.

4. Realises or knows from previous experience that he still has use as an emotional tampon, a money supplier, an honour defender, and an easy source of positive validation.

5. Knows deep down she is playing on his affection for her own ends.

6. Cognitive dissonance makes her uncomfortable. "I'm a nice girl / A nice girl wouldn't use a guy like this."

7. Hamster spins to protect her own ego.

8. Decides her behaviour is OK, because he's not really a nice guy.

9. Complains to her friends that "He's only after me for sex. He doesn't really care about me as a person."

[Vendetta]

(11-28-2013 02:09 AM)bacon Wrote:  

I have to assume a large chunk of these white knights are products of:

a) single mother home with little to no relationship with dad

- the son is repeatedly told from an early age how their father was an asshole and piece of shit from his mom. This intern causes these guys to want to do the opposite of their father foolishly believing women want nice guys.

I have witnessed this amongst my own friends. Also, the ones with sisters are much more likely to side with a woman's POV I find (this makes me wonder why Roosh is so different given that he has a sister)

I was raised by a single mother but fortunately for me, she was more of cunt than the asshole she made my dad out to be - seeing him was like a breath of fresh air!

[Wahawahwah]

What would drive a man to white knight?

The same reason you and I pursue women.
Because they think it will lead to pussy.

Or if you would prefer a better answer,
Because we're all animals.

Why do they still keep at it when it does not produce the same results you and I get?
Because they know no other way, pathetic as that excuse may sound.

The constant bombardment and endorsement of beta behavior throughout society is a major factor. A larger factor, more relevant for our generation, is that most civilized societies have accepted these beta ideals as the arbitrary status quo.

Girls grow up dreaming of becoming princesses and getting married to a prince charming with a fucking castle and all that stuff.
Guys grow up dreaming of finding the perfect snowflake and marrying her and living happily ever after.

Mothers tell their daughters that they are "special". Guys grow up being told how girls are special and fragile and other such BS, and that they should take care of these special and fragile creatures.

The last part about taking care of one's partner is perhaps the only good advice -- BUT, applied to the wrong demographic.

Anyway, over time, this passive conditioning through TV/stories/parents is firmly entrenched in the brain, so when the time comes to actually go out and ACT, these "men" behave in exactly the same manner they have been conditioned to -- by pedestalizing the girl,making her "the one", taking all her shit, rationalizing away her faults(even to the extent of cheating/blowing away money/physical and emotional abuse). This tendency is also solidified by a scarcity mentality, the natural fear of losing one's mate(humans are pair bonding species, yeah? upto a limit) and a host of other fears and insecurities.
This isn't conditioning ofc, just basic biology. But it reinforces the beta mindset.

Guys see these perfect love stories on TV, and believe thats the way the world is. Then they go out and behave in the same way.
The very process of acting out in a manner that solidifies their beliefs.......solidifies their beliefs. (red-pill men do this too, btw) Also, a lot of girls encourage such behavior and lead such betas on to believe that somewhere in the future, they may have a chance with these "princesses" and fulfill their cheesy, romantic fantasies.
Such dreams are still better than the hard reality that they may have unhappy relationships forever, and thus these hapless betas tend to get more emotionally invested in such scenarios.

This carrot-and-stick approach keeps these men entrapped in such behavioral patterns. Eventually, after enough failures, or uncanny perception, some of these betas break the shackles.
Those that do, either become jerks, commit suicide, go the MRA / MGTO way, or become truly aware of the nature of women/relationships and swallow the red pill.

But these men still do account for only a fraction of MANkind.
The rest remain chained and blissfully unaware, fed 24X7 by society and the media, and truly believe in soulmates, eternal love, chivalry, perfect women etc.

Does this seem logical?
That these white knights behave the way they do(and keep on behaving the same way) because of conditioning, and the innate drive for pussy.

Here is where shit gets a little complicated
________________

The Monkey Experiment

Go to the link.
This can wait.

Effectively, a few monkeys were conditioned NOT to touch a banana in the cage by punishing them each time they reached out.

When a new monkey was introduced in the cage, it would try to follow its natural instincts to get to the fruit. The conditioned monkeys beat it down every single time it tried to follow its natural instincts.

EVERY new monkey introduced into the cage was beaten up the same way, and each one of these adhered to this new, unnatural form of behavior, not understanding WHY it was happening. Simply became a way of life.
______________

Would this work the same way with humans?
Well,kinda.

Every time someone suggests to these conditioned Average Frustrated Chimps that girls are not angels, that the Red Pill way is the only way, that pedestalizing women and acting insecure is bad for relationships, anything at all, that challenges the view of these Chimps, they get up to beat you down.

Do they want that Banana-Pussy as much as you and I do?
Hell yeah.
But they've been conditioned, and punished, for desiring it.
They're bound by failure, and a multitude of fears, approach anxiety, fear of a lonely life, fear of not living their dreams, fear of wrong choices, etc etc.
And then you go in their cage, in "society", and attempt to asshole your way to the Pussy? How dare you?


....and they react with the same vitriol, absence of rationality and fanatic zeal that the chimps in the experiment reacted.

Thing is, you and I, we're special chimps. We know that their foaming mouths and cussing words are empty, a facade behind which they hide their fears. So long as we have the protection of our anonymity, these White Knights can do us no real harm.

And the more we poke them, the more agitated they become.
Few stop to consider the merits of our argument or the implications thereof.

Scientists, engineers, carpenters, drug addicts, bankers, students..... all of them carry on White Knighting.

What would drive a man to white knight?
Conditioning+Biology.

****OT**** I suppose this is also how the suicide bombers and terrorists must be conditioned these days. Get them at birth, brainwash them, and condition them to follow certain behavioral patterns...therefore eliminating the risk that they chicken out/have a change of heart last minute ******

[la_mode]

They see it as a shortcut, knowing they cannot properly be alpha even if they tried.

I have met some "alphas" who can be a bit white knight, but are seen as alpha via society's definition. For example, lots of army guys fit this paradigm. They are leaders of men, don't let people push them around, but will allow it with women and play up the white knight thing excessively.

I've seen some society-considered betas with a slight alpha mentality, but doesn't really do much if they're not seen as being alpha to begin with. Then, I've seen some hipsters who would considered supreme betas for example, but have a very alpha mentality with women and do seem to attract good-looking women. It's not as black/white as everyone thinks.

At the core of white knight behavior, they believe by being nice, the woman will "like them for them", or at least sleep with them since they're so different than the "jerks" she runs through.

If a woman is very attracted to a guy at baseline, it might be irrelevant, at least in the short term.

I really believe if prostitution was legalized, there would be a decrease in white knight behavior.

[Teedub]

(11-28-2013 01:31 AM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

Do you mean like this little hero, who has subsequently deleted a series of escalating threats he tweeted to me, like the one below, over my pictorial article on ROK just today?

I'm tempted to tweet your post to him if you haven't already.

[Vroom]

The White knighting strategy does make sense from an evolutionary point of view - It's not hard to imagine a fair maiden being carried away by a raider on horseback, when a brave knight chases them down on his white steed and slays her abductor, winning her undying affection. The problem for the relics who practice the strategy is that you don't see that situation too often anymore. The most dangerous situation your average girl might have to face is when they overhear something they find "offensive".

When a reproductive strategy is successful, it will be selected for and passed down, as would have been the case in more lawless, violent times and places. But in a modern, developed nation, it's not a viable strategy anymore. But it's been successful enough in the past that men are genetically and memetically programmed to continue trying it, but will continue striking out until they adapt to the new reality.

[Teedub]

This should be fun. I decided to send him Tuth's above analysis, if only to help him modify his white knighting behaviour.



It's remarkable how aggressive some people are online. Interestingly, it's the people who'd never say a peep to you in real life and certainly wouldn't physically white knight with any effort.

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

I have no idea what this guy is trying to say. "Talk to her yourself?" To who? I can see he is trying to frighten someone allright, but what the fuck is he talking about?

[Teedub]

(11-28-2013 07:11 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

I have no idea what this guy is trying to say. "Talk to her yourself?" To who? I can see he is trying to frighten someone allright, but what the fuck is he talking about?

The girl he was knighting for. Scroll up to see Tuth's post about him. He's just a kid I think, like 16 or something so I have gone pretty easy on him, although maybe for his benefit I should be more abrasive.

[The Beast1]

I will admit, i occassionally white knight. The last memory of me doing this was in college where a girl i was trying to hook up with was at a party. She told me she was hurting because she fell. I gave up on trying to get laid and gave her and her friends a ride (i knew them all).

I dropped them off one by one at their dorms. The girl i was trying to get with was completely confused. She was expecting me to try and get laid by her.

Nope, 2 days later i got the lay.

It was funny because i wrote her off as a lost cause. Either way, i don't generally do nice things for women.

[Andy_B]

There are a few things going on:

1. As for true white knights, the reasons are basically rooted in chivalry and classic Western notions of what it means to be a man. The rise of Christianity created this phenomenon where people feel the need to show off their "good guy badge" at all times to prove themselves more morally worthy than the next guy. Of course, Christian morality means defending the "weak", and women are seen as weak, so naturally white knights are born.

2. That said, I think TRUE white knighting is somewhat more rare than a lot of manosphere dudes think. A lot of the time, guys who defend chicks online are just calling it as they see it. Some of this stuff does genuinely offend people; I mean, you don't need to be a white knight to take issue with stuff like say Matt Forney's "Case Against Female Self Esteem" article. Some men do find that offensive and you might argue that the author's knowledge that people would find it offensive, is the only reason it was even written in the first place.

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

Now that you mention Matt Forney's "Case Against Female Self-Esteem", people shouldn't be offended by it. It's true. Of course, it could have been said a bit more diplomatically, but it's well-known that the epidemic or narcissism among women is making them unable to bond with men objectively equally desirable as they are, which leads to the "5 minutes of Alpha" syndrome and completely ruins female lives. When I wrote a similar article in Croatia (starting with '"All women are stupid sluts" - just kidding, I don't think that, but that is sadly exactly what most women think about men, on top of having a very high opinion of themselves'), I received a neutral response. Not a single meltdown.

[Vaun]

For the guys who are what we call male feminists, I think its a lot more than just getting laid. I think they actually buy into the whole feminist struggle story, to such a degree that they think they are rebellious and anti-capitalist/consumerism/sexist/american/western/greed/white male on and on, in a sort of weak limp-wristed way of being a rebel. Take Eddie Veddor, he's like the shining white knight prince of this, at the end of the day it just sells more records to women and he ends up looking a bigger douche to men(I think women are who actually buy their records and goes to their shows these days anyway, Pearl Jam has sucked since their second record!). They think by exerting male tough guy into the debate it makes you a real modern man, which leads to more approval from women, which leads to more time spent in their bedrooms listening to Pearl Jam, which leads to >>> shit, nevermind

[not_dead_yet]

(11-28-2013 02:09 AM)bacon Wrote:  

I have to assume a large chunk of these white knights are products of:

a) single mother home with little to no relationship with dad
...
b) two parent household with a dominant mother and very beta father

You missed one, and it's an important one. Some of us attended schools or were otherwise exposed to mass media that indoctrinated us into feminism and white knighting.

[kbell]

Planning for an article 2wyked? Hopefully to start of white knight shaming week! There is bound to be more and more white knights to pop up so we can study what they are like in detail.

This guy who threatened Tut, looks rather scrawny. And he has a Justin Beiber haircut. I don't think he could put up much of a fight unless he is an accomplished martial artist. They are often white knights, but they don't usually try to instigate fights. This leads me to believe he is just an angsty poser. Maybe he knows he is scrawny and trying to overcompensate with a false showing of misunderstood dominance. Does a truly dominant person need to threaten someone, or do other people already know his power?

[Quintus Curtius]

What drives the impulse to be a white knight?
Simple.
The deluded belief that being a white knight will increase their chances of fucking. It won't, as we all know.

[rastignac]

(11-28-2013 01:18 AM)2Wycked Wrote:  

What would drive a man to white knight?

With my friends it often seems to come out of a profound moral sense of what is right. Those are the surface reasons, rationalizations.

My feeling is that men have this innate desire to take care of the "weaker sex". Traditionally, men would take care of the specific women in their family (wife, daughter). Now they do it in the abstract as they have no traditional wife to protect, in most cases.

It is also to get validation and positive reinforcement from women, as protectors.

I do not believe it is really to curry favor to get laid, consciously or unconsciously. Feminists (and generally women) often express that belief.

My quick thoughts.