[XYZ]

We all know the more muscle you have, the better it will be for scoring chicks,at least in the U.S.

If you're just a fit guy with some muscle it will help, but it's not going to be a game changer. What is the tipping point when the pussy floodgates start opening. How big do you have to be? Do you have to be as jacked as the zyzz guy?

[Architekt]

Don't stop until you look like this

[Kimber]

Depends brutha, depends. Depends what type of girls you want, depends where you are when you're getting those girls. Zyzz is the male equivalent of Jordan: http://www.pulsarmedia.eu/data/media/19/...e-Sexy.jpg - Yeah she's hot as shit, but you can kinda tell that the bitch would be vapid and annoying.

I suppose it's not really about the size, but the confidence that comes with it. Figure that shit out, what kind of girls you want, what kind of body you want and then go get it. Not the answer you may have been looking for, but that train of thought is leading you to a bad place. It's poison to think like that.

[thegmanifesto]

Bodybuilding is one of the most overused and overhyped subjects on the forum.

Go out tonight in LA, NYC, Miami Beach to the best restaurants and nightclubs and tell me if you see huge monsters with hot girls.

Actually, tell me if you see a single instance of that.

[Magyarphile]

(10-31-2013 09:52 AM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

Bodybuilding is one of the most overused and overhyped subjects on the forum.

Go out tonight in LA, NYC, Miami Beach to the best restaurants and nightclubs and tell me if you see huge monsters with hot girls.

Actually, tell me if you see a single instance of that.

Money/status trumps physique in most parts of the world but the latter is more easily attained. Plus, in night clubs, most girls are going for looks. Zyzz types will walk away with hotter women than 5'6 balding with rolex.

[MikeCF]

The tipping point is when people can tell you lift even when you're fully clothed and not trying to show off (wearing tight clothes, under armor, etc).

But there are benefits well before that. It's just that you really start noticing a difference once you reach that point.

[XYZ]

Dont want to turn this into another muscles vs game thread

@MikeCF Was interested in hearing your first hand experience thank you

[bodmon]

i think the tipping point is when you're big but at the same time fairly lean. you can approach this after 3-4 years of optimal lifting & dieting as a natty... or after a cycle or two lol.

one of the cali numbered posters, thedude234892349 or ognorcal2945253531, said a while back that in terms of appearance for men, it goes face>height>physique>fashion. i agree with this. girls love strong, fit bodies (though the IFBB pro look is too much for them) and working on getting one is key, though face & height will matter more. also, physique game > suit game, and wearing a suit won't mean shit if you don't meet the girl's handsomeness criteria; experience has shown me that it at best adds a point or so to your baseline appearance.

[MidniteSpecial]

Before I really started working out one of my exes told me I was lucky because I have broad shoulders and small waist.

She said it doesn't even matter that you don't have a six pack or are ripped because when girls see you with your shirt on they will like your shape.

That's a hamster talking though so...

But now I like being big and strong. Girls seem to like it too. I've had girls start conversations with me over it. Or even touch me randomly.

My one boy went from being fat and out of shape to really jacked and he pulls all the time as compared to pretty much never before his transformation.

Whether its his body or new found confidence that could be debated.

I'd say if you have an 'ugly' face being freakishly jacked is a no brainer. It's only goin to add value.

Looking jacked in a custom fitted dress shirt is probably my 'tipping point'.

[El_Superbeasto]

Lifting just to get big is like a sandwich with just meat and bread. It's definitely a sandwich, but there's a bunch of stuff missing. Lifting should really be just one part of an overall athletic performance program. I can pretty much always tell the weightroom hero from the guy that's going to be a problem out on the court or the field. It's just a different type of look. Women can spot the difference too.

[MikeCF]

^ it's always little guys who say that to make them feel superior. False sense of security.

You know how many meat heats are former fighters?

Here's a hint: you won't see us "repping" tap out and affliction.

[El_Superbeasto]

I'm not talking about big vs small. I'm talking about solid vs not solid. The tell tale sign is usually huge chest and arms with a small midsection. Big glamour muscles vs arms, legs, and torso being thick all the way through.

I'm convinced that a lot of body builders look the way they do because some of the smaller supporting muscles don't get the same type of work that they do when dynamically applying strength in awkward positions like when you're in a game/match.

Edit: That being said, I'm not trying to come off like meatheads are assholes or anything. I'd rather lift with a meathead then some guy training for his 5k anyday. Any guy who's looking like a monster knows how to put in work. I'm just saying that I think gearing workouts toward athletic performance results in a better aesthetic.

[Magyarphile]

The danger of looking like you lift in clothes is women will assume that is all you do: lift. Most meat heads are pretty one dimensional human beings. To look like the guy in the pic above, your life consists of training, eating, sleeping and injecting yourself in the ass. My advice is get as big as you can lifting 3x a week and eating a healthy diet. That will be enough to impress the vast majority of women without pigeon holing yourself in the gym rat category.

[scorpion]

Just fucking do it. Stop talking about it, stop wondering about how far you need to go to get the "optimal body". That does you no good. You're putting the cart before the horse.

Just start lifting weights and eating a bodybuilding diet. Do it for a few months and see what happens.

If you can't even stick it out for a few months, you will see how foolish it was to begin by focusing on the "optimal body". It's like a broke, unemployed guy trying to become a billionaire overnight. Shit doesn't happen like that. It takes work and dedication. Start with baby steps. Learn to pick up the heavy weights and put them down safely, and develop the discipline to keep doing this for months and years.

If you do make it that far, then you can start talking about developing the "optimal body".

[kosko]

(10-31-2013 10:37 AM)MikeCF Wrote:  

The tipping point is when people can tell you lift even when you're fully clothed and not trying to show off (wearing tight clothes, under armor, etc).

But there are benefits well before that. It's just that you really start noticing a difference once you reach that point.

I still think I'm small. My own personal goals haven't been reached yet but prior to this summer this has started to happen to me. Even when I was in a sweater or something, or in my work clothes people would comment on how big I am. I was kinda like.. .. I got a long ways to go, but thanks.

There is a initial faze when you swell up like a burrito when your confidence is sky high. If anything its the confidence boost you get that helps more then anything IMO. When you feel great about yourself it radiates out 100% and women can smell it.

A person can't rely solely on the muscles though. You can get complacent and just assume because you have a good body women should want to fuck you. Its way deeper then that, and for a good half year I got lazy with game because I would assume I could wear a tight shirt to a bar and at least have women be open. It worked... sometimes.. but it got old quick when I wasn't translating a good vibe out and bringing other shit to the interaction.

Gotta be a complete plate of food, Because its like I'm ripped - so what. I see girls eye fuck me like a piece of meat sometimes but I have to be in a proper level to be able to capitalize on that and make something happen with it. I've seen tons of dudes with muscles whom can't get girls.

Muscles should be a tool in the tool kit but not your only piece of hardware.

You get more complements from dudes on your muscles then chics. Women never favor aesthetics more then men do. That has to be a golden rule for everybody to remember. Muscles just need to be a route to self improvement, a means.. but not the end.

[XYZ]

(10-31-2013 03:44 PM)kosko Wrote:  

Women never favor aesthetics more then men do. That has to be a golden rule for everybody to remember. Muscles just need to be a route to self improvement, a means.. but not the end.

This is probably true up to a point. I've always lifted and have a build similar to roosh. It's good for confidence and the occasional comment here and there. But I've seen the really jacked guys, the guys that are past the tipping point, they are on another level of attention from women.

its a sacrifice. you could spend that time honing your game or making money or doing whatever you want. what i want to know is, what is that tipping point. if it's a body like zyzz or that guy at the top of the thread, it probably isn't practical for most people. if it's something below that, then it starts to make sense.

everyone should be working out, but getting to the next level takes more of a commitment when it comes to diet and time at the gym

[thegmanifesto]

Look, work out for yourself, not for girls.

If you are working out for girls, well then, you are sort of blowing your time on earth and your priorities are all f*cked up.

----

So to get back to the original question "Bodybuilding, what is the tipping point?"

Only you can answer that one.

[kosko]

(10-31-2013 03:59 PM)XYZ Wrote:  

(10-31-2013 03:44 PM)kosko Wrote:  

Women never favor aesthetics more then men do. That has to be a golden rule for everybody to remember. Muscles just need to be a route to self improvement, a means.. but not the end.

This is probably true up to a point. I've always lifted and have a build similar to roosh. It's good for confidence and the occasional comment here and there. But I've seen the really jacked guys, the guys that are past the tipping point, they are on another level of attention from women.

its a sacrifice. you could spend that time honing your game or making money or doing whatever you want. what i want to know is, what is that tipping point. if it's a body like zyzz or that guy at the top of the thread, it probably isn't practical for most people. if it's something below that, then it starts to make sense.

everyone should be working out, but getting to the next level takes more of a commitment when it comes to diet and time at the gym

Its a illusion. Its been discussed on this forum many times. There is a small group of women whom are drawn to that look and check for dudes whom are built like gorillas but its not the norm.

You walk around in Toronto jacked like that and more men will try to hit on you then women. Its sad but true.

So like as mentioned work out for health, strength, confidence, your own personal goals. I feel like shit if I don't lift and start getting soft, and I'm addicted to the pains I get from it the next day.

I want to get stronger, I want to feel like a super hero, I want evantually be strong on all angels both mental, spiritual, and physical. The only aspect that women comes into play for my gym saga is that I am attracted to women whom like to stay fit and want to be the best they can be also. If I could figure out how to hack gym game I would never need to go out - I'd just swoop girls there, but its not that easy.

If you want a honest number .... after the honeymoon faze of the first 6months it will take 2 years for you to really notice a major shift in your body. Next, 4 years you get full foundational strength and that's only if your consistent. you should reach reach your high level of your strength goals by then and even sooner if your body responds well and you find good routines and programs that suit you with little trial and error.

This is why guys in here are saying not to use women as a carrot for the gym. You gonna hide away from women and jack off for 2 years while you get buff? No. Your going to still have to be out their in the field before that 2 years so use other means of motivation to improve yourself all around with women being a cookie (among other shit) for you attaining life goals in fitness and all aspects.

[Frank]

(10-31-2013 04:00 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

Look, work out for yourself, not for girls.

If you are working out for girls, well then, you are sort of blowing your time on earth and your priorities are all f*cked up.

----

So to get back to the original question "Bodybuilding, what is the tipping point?"

Only you can answer that one.

Excellent. This is all that matters.

[Veloce]

For me, little unexpected things happened. My gains happened in places I wasn't expecting.

For instance my biceps haven't changed very much, very slight gains there.

But my shoulders, neck, and upper chest are VERY noticeable, as are my traps and lats (thank you overhead press and rows). So you might think, "Well who gives a shit about that, chicks aren't checking out traps and lats." But they are. I wore a sweater last night that used to have some slack, and it's completely snug on me now and gave my torso definition instead of hanging loosely. I just look bigger and bulkier now, I feel like I have actual presence when I walk into a room. My shoulders feel broader, my posture is better, I walk slowly and confidently. I don't "try" to do these things, I just walk differently from lifting. I'm usually sore most days, but pleasantly so if that makes any sense, so I walk and move slowly and with intent. I definitely notice the reaction when I'm out.

[MikeCF]

^ I've posted this before and should just do a post so I can link to it. There was some formula I even sent to WestCoast.

It's about the drop from your upper torso (shoulders/chest area) and your waist.

Look at "superhero physiques." Broad shoulders, capped deltoids, and narrow waist.

It creates an impressive, aesthetically pleasing image.

[Enigma]

(10-31-2013 03:44 PM)kosko Wrote:  

(10-31-2013 10:37 AM)MikeCF Wrote:  

The tipping point is when people can tell you lift even when you're fully clothed and not trying to show off (wearing tight clothes, under armor, etc).

But there are benefits well before that. It's just that you really start noticing a difference once you reach that point.

I still think I'm small. My own personal goals haven't been reached yet but prior to this summer this has started to happen to me. Even when I was in a sweater or something, or in my work clothes people would comment on how big I am. I was kinda like.. .. I got a long ways to go, but thanks.

There is a initial faze when you swell up like a burrito when your confidence is sky high. If anything its the confidence boost you get that helps more then anything IMO. When you feel great about yourself it radiates out 100% and women can smell it.

I feel the same way. It's nice to know your hard work isn't going unnoticed but I still feel scrawny even though I've gotten comments fairly often over the past year.

[MikeCF]

So here's two bodies. The top is 183 and the bottom is 202.

183 at a low bodyfat looks good in a tank top with a pump. It's one of those "fit physiques." With a Henley, you can kinda tell there's a body there. But with a physique like that, you need to find a way to get into a tank top or snugger clothes to show it off. You can't just tell that the body is there when wearing clothing.

But at 202, first, it looks bigger than 202, right? That is approaching "big boy" status. Most guys guess that physique at 220 or so. That's an XL cotton henley, just a gym shirt to keep the joints warm. Yet you can still see the "3-D" effect of the chest and you can see the outline of capped delts.

183 is fit and gets girls, but people who say girls don't like a bigger physique are full of shit.

I've gone from 183 to 202 and know first hand how women have responded. It's not conjecture. It's not guessing. It's not mental masturabation.

I also have friends who are more jacked and ripped than I am, and I know from first hand experience what those physiques get.

I have seen women stop and stare at these friends. I have heard the word "god" thrown around and hear things like, "You don't even look real.L

Not once or twice. But every time we are out. (A few forum guys have met my training partner and brainstorming partner and seen it, too.)

Now guys ain't gotta lift. Do what you want. But shit talking is just pure hate and jealousy and shows you don't even know what's up.

   
   

[thegmanifesto]

MikeCF -

I am with you in theory, but I don't ever really see it too much in reality.

Granted, I don't go to places like Vegas pool parties where what you say would be indisputable, but the places I roll (ie high end bars, restaurants and nightclubs) you just never see it.

Even in Miami (which has more jacked guys per capita than anywhere I have been), if you go to Hyde Beach or where ever you never see monsters with hot girls.

Fit guys, normal guys, skinny guys hell even out of shape guys you see with hot girls.

Go to Cipriani in NYC. Fly girls. Zero monsters.

(I am going to a super sick gig on Sat night. I will make a mental note of what I see and report back.)

(10-31-2013 07:18 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

I've gone from 183 to 202 and know first hand how women have responded. It's not conjecture. It's not guessing. It's not mental masturabation.

I don't doubt you, but how much do you think this is because you feel better about yourself and you are giving off more confidence?

That is why I say lift or work out for yourself.

If you feel good about yourself, you are going to get girls.

[lovejoy]

(10-31-2013 07:18 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

So here's two bodies. The top is 183 and the bottom is 202.

183 at a low bodyfat looks good in a tank top with a pump. It's one of those "fit physiques." With a Henley, you can kinda tell there's a body there. But with a physique like that, you need to find a way to get into a tank top or snugger clothes to show it off. You can't just tell that the body is there when wearing clothing.

But at 202, first, it looks bigger than 202, right? That is approaching "big boy" status. Most guys guess that physique at 220 or so. That's an XL cotton henley, just a gym shirt to keep the joints warm. Yet you can still see the "3-D" effect of the chest and you can see the outline of capped delts.

183 is fit and gets girls, but people who say girls don't like a bigger physique are full of shit.

I've gone from 183 to 202 and know first hand how women have responded. It's not conjecture. It's not guessing. It's not mental masturabation.

I also have friends who are more jacked and ripped than I am, and I know from first hand experience what those physiques get.

I have seen women stop and stare at these friends. I have heard the word "god" thrown around and hear things like, "You don't even look real.L

Not once or twice. But every time we are out. (A few forum guys have met my training partner and brainstorming partner and seen it, too.)

Now guys ain't gotta lift. Do what you want. But shit talking is just pure hate and jealousy and shows you don't even know what's up.

Study after study have shown the majority of women get the hots more for guys built like fitness models than super ripped body builders. In one study the body Bradd Pitt had for Fight Club pulled 72.5% of the vote. In last place @ 1% was Mr. Olympia winner Frank Zane, one of the most aesthetically pleasing looking bodybuilders of modern times. Sure there are woman into big guys, but they are in tha minority.