[Raj]

Hello everyone,
I am gonna complete my high school studies this March and migrate to either Canada or New Zealand for college studies and eventually settle down in either of them. Being a decision for the rest of my life, I'd like to ask your opinion about both of the countries.
My core motive is to get easy financially. Of course I want to know about girls of each country but that is a secondry goal. I'd appreciate your advice regarding economy, girls, climate etc etc.
I've heard that Candadian girls are bitchy and girls from New Zealand are ugly. Is it so?
Anyways, Just let me know about the factors affecting the life in these countries. Thanks.

[Saladin]

Montreal is far better than Toronto, I know that for a fact. You'd need to learn french though.

[rudebwoy]

If you are indian I think Canada will be a better match for you. I wouldn't come to Toronto, any other city you will be alright.

Maybe go out to Alberta, check the oilsands thread.

[Armenian]

Canada is a big country and the economy varies by region. What will you study?

Canadian girls are bitchy and spoiled.

Canadian winters are harsh here. That will be an adjustment. Not only is it cold but the short days and lack of sunlight you get if you are indoor on some days can cause seasonal depression from the lack of vitamin D that you are not getting from the sun. But that is more for people who have a 9 to 5 job.

Rent in Montreal is cheaper than other big Canadian cities. I don't think French is necessary. English is very common as it draws the business community there and there are two big English universities in Montreal. McGill and Concordia.

Vancouver has milder weather. Lots of Indians and other Asians there. Expensive to live there.

Calgary, Edmonton and the entire province of Alberta has a booming economy and you can make good $$$ there.

Toronto as it's been mentioned has undatable women.

[T and A Man]

NZ and Canada are similar in that they are English speaking coutries, they are sheltered from the real world by English speaking big brother, Australia and NZ respectively.

Thus with a very small defence budget, they go off and spend it on wasting it away on "progressive advancement". Thus both are notorious for rampant displays of socialist soft-cockery. Incredibly liberal compared to 'big brother', they are also smug in their self-righteousness.

NZ is awful for women, without doubt it has the ugliest chicks of the developed world. A tiny stock of Europeans who drew the uly stick, as well as a lot of Polynesian blood which is prone to size and masculine features.

NZ's biggest benefit, and it's know amongst every student who immigrates there, is the combination of only 18 months before you become a citizen, and once a citizen it's a free open ticket to Australia.

However your biggest factor shuold not be girls, it should be career prospects. We don't know what your skillset it, but that said NZ has very few industries and not many jobs are high paid. It's economic future outside of being able to expatriate to Australia for higher paying jobs isn't that bright.

[Raj]

Thanks for the information. I'm thinking about getting New Zealand citizenship and later going to Australia (going straight to Australia from India and getting citizenship is very hard). Went through some threads about Australia and like the sound of it. Also, my uncle is there who owns a hotel and is earning good. Thinking about going on his route. Any thoughts?

[Kimber]

They (Australia) know that this happens and they're stopping it, if not have stopped it already. It takes 5 years to become an Australian citizen and only 2 years to become a New Zealand citizen. Once you're a citizen of New Zealand, you can easily get Australian citizenship within a couple of months - the numbers aren't 100% accurate but this is the general gist of what Raj wants to do. Honestly, if you're worried about your race (as is the stereotype for Indians) England would be the best anglophone country for you in terms of acceptance, dating opportunities etc. I lived in England for 2 years and saw a lot more Indian dudes with white chicks and vice versa. Have you thought about living there?

Australia is a great place, don't get me wrong. But it is inherently racist and being white does have its benefits (research cronulla riots, our asylum policy, pauline hanson etc) and judging by the way you type and the words/phrases you use, you're not a native English speaker. Kiwi girls are cool, there are islanders who are big and like BIG dudes, but there are also a lot of white chicks. I don't know what it is like there so I don't want to generalise but I imagine it's like Australia.

IIRC you're a young dude, you'll probably change your mind and move somewhere else. You gotta figure this shit out for yourself, you can get recommendations all day long but until you get there and see the place for yourself and make your own decision, you'll never know. I had a fuck off amazing time in Denmark, but it gets a lot of hate in this forum and from Roosh. So that's my advice, visit both, see what you like and dislike then make your decision.

[Antipodean]

It takes 7 years to get a full New Zealand citizenship, then you can travel freely to Australia and live there, but I think it will take a lot more than 2 month to get the Australian citizenship.

Why would Australia want to stop this?
As it is New Zealand bears all the costs of grooming new citizens to the broadly Australasian lifestyle and culture.
Then when they have shown the tenacity to work through the multi year process, Australia gets them as productive citizens for free.

That beats taking in raw unproven immigrants directly.
New Zealand is the loser.

[Que enspastic]

Australia benefits immensely from Kiwi immigration. Any country would benefit from taking in the best and brightest of the Kiwis.

Read this article:

http://www.theglobalmail.org/feature/the...aland/246/

Quote:

The Hollowing Out Of New Zealand
By Bernard Lagan
May 24, 2012

Kiwis are fleeing home at a record pace, and with a panache that’s snared them a reality TV show. But the reality of their exodus is much more dramatic for New Zealand’s economy, now and in the future.

Imagine an Australian city the size of Coffs Harbour or Gladstone disappearing each year. Or Brentwood, California. Or Waterford, Ireland.

Each has a population of around 50,000 — about the number of people who leave New Zealand, which has a total population of 4.4 million, every year to settle in Australia.

New Zealanders are well used to waving off family as they depart for Australia — brothers, sisters, children, even their parents, these days.

Still it came as a shock to many on Monday, May 21, when New Zealand's government statistician announced the breaking of fresh records in the country's exodus to Australia: outflows have reached their highest point ever, at 53,500 annually. That is about equal to the population of New Zealand's 10th largest city, Rotorua.

Some 700,000 New Zealanders now live overseas; about 550,000 are in Australia.

The only developed nation that rivals New Zealand for the export of its citizens is Ireland.
The only developed nation that rivals New Zealand for the export of its citizens is Ireland, which has a similar population (4.5 million) and a rising annual outflow of people, now running at some 75,000 a year.

The Great Leaving has come to be a dominant cultural narrative within both countries; the Irish Times newspaper has begun a well-read blog, Generation Emigration, which chronicles the voices of the leaving and the often angry lamentations of those staying, particularly the parents.

Meanwhile New Zealanders lately have been absorbed by a new television reality show, The GC, which, in the mould of the US hit show Jersey Shore, follows the flashy lives of a group of buff young New Zealand Maori men and women who've moved to Queensland's Gold Coast for love, ambition and money.

The show, which debuted this month to an unexpectedly large audience of 370,000, has polarised New Zealanders. The Prime Minister, John Key has been forced to defend the show's government-sourced funding to viewers who fear that it will only encourage yet more young people to leave. However, the show has been mainly well received by New Zealanders living in Australia.

Christel Broederlow, a New Zealander resident in Australia and owner of the Maori in Oz website, acknowledges that show has aroused anger in New Zealand. The GC may indeed encourage more young New Zealanders to Australia, she says, but what's the matter with that?

"I can only put it down to one thing, really, and I call it jealousy. I am sorry, but I do. I can't understand why there is such a negative portrayal of this show, because these young people are really getting up and getting active and doing what I feel is going to have an inspirational flow-on to other youth in New Zealand."

That is not the way it's seen by one of Australia's leading demographers, Professor Bob Birrell of Monash University's Centre for Population and Urban Research. He says New Zealanders increasingly regard the Gold Coast and southeast Queensland as a province of New Zealand — and that is a problem for Australia.

"This is open-ended and out of control. There is no control over the numbers coming, what the occupations are of those coming and where they locate. That's a problem," says Birrell.
New Zealanders have enjoyed the right to live and work in Australia since the 1920s — and Australians to live in New Zealand. But since the early 1980s, the traffic has been increasingly one way, as Australia's economy and opportunities have outpaced New Zealand's. While well over half a million New Zealanders live in Australia, fewer than 70,000 Australians have gone the other way.

THE GLOBAL MAIL

THE MIGRANTS WHO ARE fleeing Ireland and New Zealand share a common driver: an anaemic home economy. Ireland in particular illustrates the force of economics on immigration trends: In the years of Ireland's status as the Celtic Tiger economy, its population swelled and unemployment plummeted. Come the financial crisis that began in 2008, though, the cascading effects in Ireland later saw an an unemployment rate that rose to nearly 14 per cent, rock-bottom property prices — and eventually another exodus.
New Zealand, arguably, has double drivers: not only is its economy performing poorly, Australia's is rollicking. New Zealanders have been pushed — and pulled — toward their western neighbour.

The statistics tell the story. The Australian economy has created 1.3 million new jobs since the end of 2005, compared with 116,000 in New Zealand — that's a 13.3 per cent increase in the number of new Australian jobs compared with 5.5 per cent in New Zealand. Average weekly wages in Australia are now more than $400 above those in New Zealand.

The sensitivity of New Zealanders toward the loss of their population is understandable. New Zealanders have long accepted that many of their highest academic achievers will be lost forever. No other developed nation has more of it best and brightest working overseas, according to a 2010 report by the Organisation for Economic Development and Cooperation that ranked New Zealand as the OECD's top exporter of its most qualified citizens. One-third of all New Zealand-trained doctors, for instance, work overseas. Nearly one in four graduate New Zealanders move overseas, compared with 14 per cent of Australia's most skilled.

Now, not only are these high achievers often leaving New Zealand but so too are the masses in the middle according to Australian and New Zealand Government statistics.

To get a picture of the effect upon New Zealand of such a vast and sustained exodus of its people, imagine an apple eaten down to its core. The middle disappears — in much the same way as the middle of New Zealand's population is being eaten away by migration — while the young at the bottom of the apple and the elderly at the top continue to swell the apple at either end.

New Zealand, of course, is far from alone in having an aging population. Around the world, developed nations face the same demography, a result of their declining birth rates and their better medical care, which is allowing us to live ever longer.
But the aging of the New Zealand population is being propelled at an even more alarming rate by the loss of its younger people through emigration, overwhelmingly to Australia. These are typified by the cast of The GC.

No other developed nation has more of it best-qualified citizens working overseas. One third of all New Zealand-trained doctors, for instance, work overseas.

Out of all OECD nations, it is New Zealand that will see the greatest rise in the numbers of its elderly — a situation that has partly come about, ironically, because no other developed nation experienced a per capita post-war baby-boom as large as New Zealand's. Those record numbers of baby-boomers are now fast aging the entire population.

The New Zealand demographer Professor Natalie Jackson, director of Waikato University's Population Studies Centre, has made a sobering forecast for the country: In less than 12 years' time the numbers of elderly New Zealanders (65 years plus) will exceed the numbers of young people (up to 14 years old).

That means New Zealand is facing a youth deficit of crisis proportions, ever more so as its young people continue to flock to Australia. Especially crucial to the country is what happens to the current crop of young New Zealanders, still in the country, aged between 15 to 19. They are, effectively, New Zealand's last chance generation.

In her recent study of the New Zealand's demographic future, Professor Jackson said: "If just a small proportion of the current 15-19 year old cohort leaves New Zealand and doesn't return, New Zealand employers will be faced with a labour shortage of crisis proportions."
The effects upon New Zealand of this loss of the young are already stark. Surveys are beginning to show that young people are fading out of some industries. In some regions of New Zealand in the health care industry, for instance, there are only three people aged under 30 employed for every ten aged 55 years and over. There are similar low ratios emerging between young and older workers in New Zealand's economic backbone — the farming industry.
"These ultra-low ratios raise many questions," says Professor Jackson in her study. "For example, who will buy or inherit the farms as their older owners relinquish them… it is clear that a crisis of succession is facing New Zealand's farming industries."
She forecasts that the coming labour shortages in New Zealand will lead to higher wages (as employers compete for staff). In turn, prices will increase — higher living costs.

PHOTO COURTESY OF TV3
Rosanna and Zane of The GC.
That feeds a vicious circle if, as most studies have concluded, the dominant motivation for New Zealanders to emigrate to Australia is to escape high living costs due to comparatively low wages. The average New Zealand wage amounts to only 64 per cent of comparable Australian wages, and that gap is widening.

THIS WEEK'S RECORD EMIGRATION figures caused the veteran New Zealand politician and longtime cabinet minister Winston Peters to turn on his country's market-based economic policies. He said: "About 1,000 Kiwis a week, many of them qualified in trades, are quitting our country. This loss is ripping the heart out of our economy and creating a serious lack of grunt for future growth."
New Zealanders have had virtually unfettered access to Australia since the1920s, a situation cemented by the 1973 trans-Tasman Travel Arrangement, signed by the then Australian and New Zealand immigration ministers. Australia changed the agreement in 1981 to require New Zealanders to carry passports, following concerns that non-New Zealand citizens and criminals were using the arrangement to enter Australia.

The rules were changed again a decade ago — also at Australia's insistence — to limit Australian welfare benefits available to New Zealand migrants. This came in response to concerns that immigrants to New Zealand were leaving for Australia as soon as they obtained New Zealand citizenship and that New Zealand citizens had too easy access to Australian welfare benefits.
Inevitably the recent surge in arrivals from New Zealand will refocus attention within Australia on the open-ended access arrangements for New Zealanders.

Monash University's Professor Birrell is among those who believe the arrangement should be reviewed in light of the latest figures.
"I think that the time has come to establish whether New Zealand should continue to have this open-ended access arrangement given its scale and the fact that we've not got control over it," he said.
“About 1,000 Kiwis a week, many of them qualified in trades, are quitting our country. This loss is ripping the heart out of our economy and creating a serious lack of grunt for future growth.”

− WINSTON PETERS, NEW ZEALAND FIRST PARTY
He said New Zealanders were competing against Australians for jobs in the softening labour market on Australia's eastern seaboard.
"We are adding a significant influx of migrants to this job market. They are adding to the competition for available work. So it's a concern. And also people are getting restive about the ability of Australian governments to accommodate the record high migration numbers that we have experienced in the past decade."

Of course the notion of restricting migration to Australia is not a popular cause within New Zealand. Professor Paul Spoonley, leader of New Zealand's Integration of Immigrants Program in Auckland, believes that no New Zealand government would move to curtail the arrangement: "It would be politically unacceptable to abandon it, so it is not an option."

Nonetheless, Birrell says, Australia does well out of New Zealand migration. He describes New Zealand as an excellent source of skilled migrants and points out that New Zealanders perform well in the Australian job market. New Zealand citizens have a high labour-force participation rate (76.9 per cent) compared with the Australian average (68.5 per cent). This is partly related to the concentration of New Zealanders in the young adult age groups, who are more employable.

Increasingly, they are staying on in Australia rather than returning home to raise families.

The great New Zealand scholar, writer and soldier John Mulgan, author of the seminal New Zealand novel Man Alone, wrote from Cairo in 1945 of his countrymen:

They came from the most beautiful country in the world but it is a small country and very remote. After a while this isolation oppresses them and they go abroad. They roam the world looking not for adventure but for satisfaction. They run service cars in Iraq, gold mines in Nevada or newspapers in Fleet Street. They are a queer, lost, eccentric, pervading people who will seldom admit to the deep desire that is in all of them to go home and live quietly in New Zealand again.
No longer, it seems.

[Que enspastic]

Thread should be renamed Canada vs. Australia via NZ

[Sombro]

(10-31-2013 02:54 PM)Que enspastic Wrote:  

Thread should be renamed Canada vs. Australia via NZ

"New Zealand is the Canada of Australia"

[Steve9]

(10-30-2013 09:54 PM)Raj Wrote:  

I'd appreciate your advice regarding economy, girls, climate etc etc.

Hey Raj, If climate is an important factor, the winters in NZ are much milder than those in Canada

[lockdown90]

who cares the climate if you cant find nice girls???

[beta_plus]

Just reaffirming what has been said previously:

If you go to Canada, just play it safe and make sure to avoid Ontario. In my experience, Ottawa may be better than Toronto, but that doesn't mean that it's good. While there might be small cities and towns in Ontario that are good, you're not going to find jobs there.

Alberta or Montreal should be your goal.

[scotian]

(10-30-2013 09:54 PM)Raj Wrote:  

Hello everyone,
I am gonna complete my high school studies this March and migrate to either Canada or New Zealand for college studies and eventually settle down in either of them. Being a decision for the rest of my life, I'd like to ask your opinion about both of the countries.
My core motive is to get easy financially. Of course I want to know about girls of each country but that is a secondry goal. I'd appreciate your advice regarding economy, girls, climate etc etc.
I've heard that Candadian girls are bitchy and girls from New Zealand are ugly. Is it so?
Anyways, Just let me know about the factors affecting the life in these countries. Thanks.

I don't find Canadian girls to be too bitchy, maybe in Toronto but in most provinces, especially on the east coast or in places like Saskatchewan, you''ll meet some of the sweetest, down to earth white girls in the world.

[Northern]

(10-31-2013 12:16 AM)T and A Man Wrote:  

NZ and Canada are similar in that they are English speaking coutries, they are sheltered from the real world by English speaking big brother, Australia and NZ respectively.

Thus with a very small defence budget, they go off and spend it on wasting it away on "progressive advancement". Thus both are notorious for rampant displays of socialist soft-cockery. Incredibly liberal compared to 'big brother', they are also smug in their self-righteousness.

NZ is awful for women, without doubt it has the ugliest chicks of the developed world. A tiny stock of Europeans who drew the uly stick, as well as a lot of Polynesian blood which is prone to size and masculine features.

NZ's biggest benefit, and it's know amongst every student who immigrates there, is the combination of only 18 months before you become a citizen, and once a citizen it's a free open ticket to Australia.

However your biggest factor shuold not be girls, it should be career prospects. We don't know what your skillset it, but that said NZ has very few industries and not many jobs are high paid. It's economic future outside of being able to expatriate to Australia for higher paying jobs isn't that bright.

I was in Rotorua in NZ. If in other NZ cities / towns only 50% of girls are fat, in Rotorua it was closer to 90%. Yeah, it was pretty sad to see handsome, athletic guys chasing fugly chicks with suuuuch attitude.

[Steve9]

(10-30-2013 09:54 PM)Raj Wrote:  

Hello everyone,
I am gonna complete my high school studies this March and migrate to either Canada or New Zealand for college studies and eventually settle down in either of them. Being a decision for the rest of my life, I'd like to ask your opinion about both of the countries.
My core motive is to get easy financially.

Raj, What cities are you considering in each country? Cities can be vastly different and we can give you much better intel on specific cities...

[rudebwoy]

How are you able to migrate to these countries?

From what I know immigration to Canada is pretty tough right now and Australia is not much better. Looks like you are looking to come under a student visa, which will be expensive.

In your situation, I would go to neither. Someone mentioned UK and I agreed with what he said.

As for girls, there isn't a big group that will date a guy with a strong indian accent.

[Steve9]

(11-01-2013 09:53 AM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

As for girls, there isn't a big group that will date a guy with a strong indian accent.

Cities like Vancouver and Auckland have a huge number of Asian (Chinese, Korean, Vietnamese, Thai, Indonesian, etc) students or on a working holiday visa...I've seen plenty of these girls dating Indian guys.

[rudebwoy]

(11-01-2013 10:32 AM)Steve9 Wrote:  

(11-01-2013 09:53 AM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

As for girls, there isn't a big group that will date a guy with a strong indian accent.

Cities like Vancouver and Auckland have a huge number of Asian (Chinese, Korean, Vietnamese, Thai, Indonesian, etc) students...I've seen plenty of these girls dating Indian guys.

I meant of the boat Indian guys, this is based on what I see in Toronto. I didn't mention the other Asian countries.

[Raj]

UK is not a feasable option due to some unmentionable reasons. I believe I can do okay if not good with girls regardless of country. Yes, Study visa is expensive but yet affoardable is the alternative price is living in India. I have plenty of time to think about this. For now I'm gonna compare pros and cons and focus on studies. Thanks bros.

[Tytalus]

I live in Vancouver and we have some of the WORST rents & real estate prices in the country. Go somewhere else. Calgary or Edmonton have economies that are doing really well.

[Saladin]

(11-01-2013 09:53 AM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

How are you able to migrate to these countries?

From what I know immigration to Canada is pretty tough right now and Australia is not much better. Looks like you are looking to come under a student visa, which will be expensive.

In your situation, I would go to neither. Someone mentioned UK and I agreed with what he said.

As for girls, there isn't a big group that will date a guy with a strong indian accent.

Accent reduction can work. My buddy's school has a ton of FOBs who have perfect English because of the accent reducing classes they took.

[Raj]

My sister is in Saskatoon and She says its better than Toronto except for the weather. :/
I don't have the typical Indian accent, it's more of a hybrid of American and Indian accent wherein the American consitutes the most.
It's not that I don't have the sense of belongingness but because of the unemployment, shitty lifestyle, girls. I'm slowly developing a hate towards my own country. Every guy you see is a beta. Every 7 thinks she's a 9 or something. Goverment is corrupted. Education means nothing. Food is unhygienic.

But hey, all this favours me. I shine even if I'm in a crowd of other dudes here. I'm slowly getting the beautiful girls because of me being aloof and ahead of these guys. I think it's even making me look better physically?. I can out alpha the other guys in most situations. Thanks to all of you and my mentors. Lord knows what would have happened if I hadn't found manosphere.

but still though, I think sooner, it's gonna give me diminishing returns. My game will get limited. I need more competition, more oppurtunities and more variety of girls to improve myself.
I'll post the country to which I'm going and the reasons behind it. Thanks for support again.

[LeBeau]

Saskatoon probably has better job opportunities that T.O. right now if you're planning to learn a trade or wanna work in the commodities/agriculture field, but the lifestyle for a young man would be much worse than T.O.

Co-sign Calgary or Edmonton if you're looking for a combination of lifestyle/money making.