[Architekt]

With the interest that members seem to be showing in the online freelancing / working from home in general area, I thought I'd open lounge to discuss some of the finer and rougher points of making computers do things.

At the moment, I'm in the process of familiarising myself with Google's Go language by writing a simple web server. From what I've seen, it seems to be an incredibly powerful language. Curious that it hasn't really taken off yet, but I guess people like to stick to their guns.

Also undertaking the Python course on Coursera. Pretty easy so far, but looking forward to the Blackjack game near the end

EDIT: An excellent suggestion, also

invictusiii Wrote:

I think this thread could also become a place where ideas guys can come to find developers to get their ideas off the ground.

[invictusiii]

I've been coding in PHP for years. I have yet to start making decent money from it though. I used to be a full time developer before doing a 9 year stint in the Air Force as something un-related. Now I'm out and trying to figure out a way to work for myself and still pay the bills. I've been doing some work on fiverr.com with moderate success.

Also for anyone wanting to get into PHP, I recommend checking out the Laravel framework. PHP gets a bad rep for having a low barrier to entry and and consequently full of shitty coders but there seems to be a renaissance of sorts going on with PHP as a language and the Laravel community is helping to give it a better reputation. It's starting to be what Rails is to the Ruby community.

I think this thread could also become a place where ideas guys can come to find developers to get their ideas off the ground.

[Architekt]

Great suggestion, added to the original post.

I agree, what always put me off PHP was the sheer amount of shitty/useless code I had to plow through to find anything I'd actually consider beneficial to learn from. It's a pretty useful language, though, so I'll probably get stuck into it at some point

[Edmund Dantes]

I finished the HTML & CSS section of codeacademy but I have no idea how to play with code. I wrote some of my own but I don't know how to view it. I looked up code viewing generators online but it was mediocre at best.

Do I need some kind of software?

And where do I go next?

[invictusiii]

HTML and CSS are just plain text that is interpreted by a web browser. You can edit it in any text editor like notepad. If you use Windows you can use Notepad++ which is free and has some nice formatting features. Sublime Text is also very nice but is $70. If you want to work with code like PHP, Ruby or Go you need to learn about web servers and how they are configured to interpret those languages and display output.

If you use Windows an easy way to get started playing with web servers and PHP is to use something like this http://www.wampserver.com/en/
If you use Mac this is a similar solution http://www.mamp.info/en/index.html

They install a webserver on your computer that you can play with locally. Once you're ready you can purchase a hosting plan from a place like hostgator and play with a real Internet facing server.

[Volk]

If anybody owns a Mac-whatever already, there's big demand for Objective-C iphone development.

[Enigma]

I'm taking the Python course on Coursera as well but I think I may double-up with a similar course on EdX taught by MIT. It looks to have a different approach and is part of the X-series Computer Science certification offered by MIT through EdX. I'll either learn something new or I'll just breeze through and reinforce what I'm learning with Coursera.

[Player_1337]

(10-14-2013 02:47 PM)invictusiii Wrote:  

HTML and CSS are just plain text that is interpreted by a web browser. You can edit it in any text editor like notepad. If you use Windows you can use Notepad++ which is free and has some nice formatting features. Sublime Text is also very nice but is $70. If you want to work with code like PHP, Ruby or Go you need to learn about web servers and how they are configured to interpret those languages and display output.

Sublime Text is free and fantastic.

Download Sublime Text

[Ensam]

Best way to learn a programming language is to have a project that requires it.

If you're lacking a project check out Project Euler (http://projecteuler.net/). Whenever I'm trying to quickly come up to speed on a new language I'll bang out a few problems, especially the ones that are a little more complicated and require data structures to solve.

[invictusiii]

(10-14-2013 06:10 PM)Player_1337 Wrote:  

(10-14-2013 02:47 PM)invictusiii Wrote:  

HTML and CSS are just plain text that is interpreted by a web browser. You can edit it in any text editor like notepad. If you use Windows you can use Notepad++ which is free and has some nice formatting features. Sublime Text is also very nice but is $70. If you want to work with code like PHP, Ruby or Go you need to learn about web servers and how they are configured to interpret those languages and display output.

Sublime Text is free and fantastic.

Download Sublime Text

My bad. Sublime Text is free but it will nag you all the time unless you purchase a license.

[Brez]

PHP coder here - Make my own sites for a living.
Started off making around $5 a month with adsense and then grew to about $25,000 a month. Got my first cheque up on the wall

I'm back at the bottom now though (Long story), so If anyone wants to team up on a project, I'm all ears.

For anyone wanting to learn, I would recommend a quick read of a book and posting up a freelance project for some indian to code something that you want and learning from that, you can also ask them questions. Helped me a lot. Just remember that they are sloppy coders, but at beginner level its great for picking things up

[dasher]

(10-14-2013 06:44 PM)Ensam Wrote:  

Best way to learn a programming language is to have a project that requires it.

If you're lacking a project check out Project Euler (http://projecteuler.net/). Whenever I'm trying to quickly come up to speed on a new language I'll bang out a few problems, especially the ones that are a little more complicated and require data structures to solve.

This is absolutely right!

Jumping into the deepend and forcing yourself to learn the ins and outs of a language in solving a problem is the best way to learn, especially if you already have a background in a different language (as many basic skills are somewhat transferable).

I learned javascript / jQuery in this way.

google and stackoverflow.com are your best friends.

google - 'X in language' where X is some task like 'sortable list' or 'dropdown menu'.

stackoverflow - ask questions here if you've googled for a solution, followed a tutorial or copied some code snippets but it still doesn't work for you. Being more specific is better, don't do open questions like 'what is the best way to do X task'.

'I tried doing X task in Y way, but it didn't work. Here is the related code {code snippet}, I think the problem might be {whatever}.

Thanks for reading!'

[invictusiii]

(10-14-2013 07:50 PM)Brez Wrote:  

PHP coder here - Make my own sites for a living.
Started off making around $5 a month with adsense and then grew to about $25,000 a month. Got my first cheque up on the wall

I'm back at the bottom now though (Long story), so If anyone wants to team up on a project, I'm all ears.

For anyone wanting to learn, I would recommend a quick read of a book and posting up a freelance project for some indian to code something that you want and learning from that, you can also ask them questions. Helped me a lot. Just remember that they are sloppy coders, but at beginner level its great for picking things up

When you say you made sites, do you mean you created free web apps/services and then just included ads? I'm scraping by trying to be a freelance dev and would rather create something of my own that I can monetize through ads or recurring subscriptions. I hate scouring through other people's messy code and I sometimes get beat out for price by third world programmers who charge a lot less.

[Brez]

(10-14-2013 08:41 PM)invictusiii Wrote:  

When you say you made sites, do you mean you created free web apps/services and then just included ads? I'm scraping by trying to be a freelance dev and would rather create something of my own that I can monetize through ads or recurring subscriptions. I hate scouring through other people's messy code and I sometimes get beat out for price by third world programmers who charge a lot less.

Making websites of interest, communities etc. By freelancing you're just helping someone else make it big!

Subscriptions are the way to go if you can offer premium or 'extra' services, whatever they may be. Even if its just a highlighted username on a forum - people will pay!

If you make a site about something you're passionate about, it will work out

PM'ed you a couple of mine

[YoungDominican]

This is great because I have a lot of coding to do this year for college HTML/ C++. I could use help from experienced coders, for instance I have a project to design a website with a sign up page log in page etc. I will post any questions or anything I need help with on here.

[JackDavey]

Quote:

Best way to learn a programming language is to have a project that requires it.

Absolutely. This is also how I learned javascript, and how I learned to enjoy coding in javascript. I had something in mind I wanted to do, not a marketable app, necessarily, just something for fun. I learned enough javascript to be able to do it, and that was quite a bit of javascript.

When I was finished, though, I realized that I didn't really understand javascript's object model very well, and this would trip me up on other projects. Additionally, I realized I probably was not following anything like best practices (which I think are especially important in js, because browsers are forgiving and will run broken code whenever they can). So I've found some resources for learning this language.

For those who like a structured learning approach, I recommend looking at http://javascriptissexy.com/how-to-learn...-properly/ . Lots of other good resources are listed on this stack overflow thread: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/11246...javascript . I like http://eloquentjavascript.net/ due to its writing style.

[invictusiii]

Another thing I would recommend is getting a github account. Learn how to use git for managing your code and start forking/contributing to various open source projects. You can learn a lot from other people's code as well.

[This Is Trouble]

I feel like with CMS systems like Drupal, Joomla, and Wordpress out there (the big 3 really), that HTML/CSS is quickly becoming a lost art.

Any noob can fire up Wordpress and built a decent looking site in a couple of hours. There will always be a market for back-end coding, but I feel like the UI is just becoming simpler and simpler for a monkey to crank out.

[Architekt]

(10-14-2013 11:24 PM)TroubleMaker Wrote:  

I feel like with CMS systems like Drupal, Joomla, and Wordpress out there (the big 3 really), that HTML/CSS is quickly becoming a lost art.

Any noob can fire up Wordpress and built a decent looking site in a couple of hours. There will always be a market for back-end coding, but I feel like the UI is just becoming simpler and simpler for a monkey to crank out.

There are still many avenues to be explored/exploited. Anything you can connect to on an iPhone is probably a decent option

[invictusiii]

(10-14-2013 11:24 PM)TroubleMaker Wrote:  

I feel like with CMS systems like Drupal, Joomla, and Wordpress out there (the big 3 really), that HTML/CSS is quickly becoming a lost art.

Any noob can fire up Wordpress and built a decent looking site in a couple of hours. There will always be a market for back-end coding, but I feel like the UI is just becoming simpler and simpler for a monkey to crank out.

You still need to know at least a little HTML/CSS if you plan on doing backend work or even bootstrapping your own web app. There are also themes. Usually the best themes for those CMS systems are not free. If you're good at designing, there is money to be made from selling your themes at places like themeforest or templatemonster.

[le prince perdu]

I started programming about 6 months ago, so far I've only made a todo maker using PHP and HTML.

I have messed around with C++,java,perl and python but My skills and understanding are still not there yet.

I find it difficult to learn languages, college teachers don't know how to teach so youtube and giant books are my only options.

it'd be cool if seasoned programmers drop some good data

[Cattle Rustler]

(10-15-2013 11:44 AM)le prince perdu Wrote:  

I started programming about 6 months ago, so far I've only made a todo maker using PHP and HTML.

I have messed around with C++,java,perl and python but My skills and understanding are still not there yet.

I find it difficult to learn languages, college teachers don't know how to teach so youtube and giant books are my only options.

it'd be cool if seasoned programmers drop some good data

There's a "how to become a programmer" thread made by member "french corporation", the title might be a little different. It has many resources on programming.

I took a beginner-intermediate Java course and can't remember shit

[dasher]

(10-15-2013 11:44 AM)le prince perdu Wrote:  

I started programming about 6 months ago, so far I've only made a todo maker using PHP and HTML.

I have messed around with C++,java,perl and python but My skills and understanding are still not there yet.

I find it difficult to learn languages, college teachers don't know how to teach so youtube and giant books are my only options.

it'd be cool if seasoned programmers drop some good data

I lucked out at uni, my web programming course had a very solid, if dry lecturer.

Actually most of the programming courses I did at uni were solid or better, only the advanced java lecturer was notably bad.

A bunch of the non-programming courses were total crap though, taught by guys who wanted their students to fuck off so they could get back to research or whatever.

[Videl]

I want to learn programing, with which programing language should I begin with? Python any good?

[JackDavey]

(10-15-2013 11:44 AM)le prince perdu Wrote:  

I started programming about 6 months ago, so far I've only made a todo maker using PHP and HTML.

I have messed around with C++,java,perl and python but My skills and understanding are still not there yet.

I find it difficult to learn languages, college teachers don't know how to teach so youtube and giant books are my only options.

it'd be cool if seasoned programmers drop some good data

Those four languages are too much to tackle in 6 months time. Really, any one of them would require at least that long to master if you are new to programming in general.

I recommend Python for beginners; it's a solid, well-rounded language, with lots of applications in different fields, and an easy to read syntax. It has fantastic support and documentation (better than the often lauded PHP docs, IMO).

Python is probably my favorite language, but for instant gratification Javascript can't be beat. The new HTML5 APIs have brought a lot of really interesting functionality to the browser; you can sit down and learn how to do canvas graphics or whip up a simple music player in a day. Javascript is also super marketable right now, and I don't see that changing soon.

C++ and Java will be around for a while, but newer desktop environments (notably Windows8 and Gnome) now support native apps written in Javascript. This is a game-changer, and combined with server-side js via node, will keep Javascript skills in demand for years to come.

This is all my semi-informed opinion. Resources for learning the languages I'm talking up have been posted in this thread and in the one Cattle Rustler linked, and they are good ones (Learn Python the Hard Way is a great text). As for your difficulty learning, I tend to agree about professors, however, Harvard's CS50x on edx is a solid course (teaches some C, and a little HTML/CSS/JS/PHP) but demanding. The MIT course using Python is also good. I learned from giant books and web-searches (Stack Overflow is essential), and especially by writing code. Everyone has different learning styles, though, so if you have specific difficulties, we might be able to help with that here.

EDIT: I guess he didn't link to it, but here is the thread Rustler was talking about: http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-26260.html
FURTHER EDIT: Since this thread is called "Computer Programming Lounge" I'm just gonna say, fuck Perl, my neighbors cat barfs up shit that's more readable than the typical perl script.