[scotian]

Its getting close to that time of year again when I'm done my stint in the oil patch and have more money than I know what do with, I'm definitely going to travel this winter (likely Latin America) but this time I'd like to explore some options as to how I may be able to make some money while abroad. One idea that came to mind is the shipping of heavy equipment such as excavators, bob cats, steam rollers, dump trucks, etc.

I thought of this because I have an uncle who used to do it, I haven't spoken to him in six years and I'm not too sure if he's still doing it, but he could probably give me some advice. I also know a good friend of mine in Nova Scotia who's father-in-law does it, so I'll likely hit him up too. I just wanted to know if any of you guys out there have any experience with this type of business venture and if you could give me some pointers.

I think it would likely go something like this:

1) Travel to a country where the economy is doing well and contrtruction projects are going on or are forecasted to take place, a random example I found online is a proposed canal in Nicaragua linking the Atlantic and Pacific coasts (similar to the Panama canal).

2) Network: meet with local business people, construction managers, etc to see if there's a demand for heavy equipment.

3) Find the heavy equipment: there's tons of old equipment where I work in Alberta and the large oil companies have to replace it after a certain number of years, regardless of what shape its in, I could also hit up auctions. Judging by the shitty equipment I've seen on job sites abroad, I think there's a good market for this stuff.

4) Ship the product abroad: I'd probably load it on a container in a Canadian port city (Vancouver, Montreal or Halifax) and ship from there.

The of course there's all of the other details: graft/corruption, finding trustworthy business partners, not getting kidnapped and robbed, insurance import taxes, etc.

I have about 50K to play around with now and can likely double that if I put it off for a year, I could also get some friends or investors in on the plan if I can get some solid leads, advice and hopefully convince the contacts that I already have to go in on this with me. Basically I want to put my money to work for me and if I could do this while traveling abroad, that would be ideal.

[billbudsocket]

I think that could work, especially with bulldozers. I know in Nicaragua, old Cat dozers from the 80's go for 20-40k USD. I'm considering bringing down a 1990s D3 or D4 (or equivalent JD model) dozer to rent out, but you instead just sell it once you got it imported. Dump trucks in Central America are a dime a dozen, and the taxes on lowboy trailers are outrageous, so the best way to go is get a medium duty flat bed truck, load the dozer on the flatbed, and sell the truck and the dozer when you get to your destination country.

[Pyre]

I love this idea and when I visited Peru years ago I thought the same thing: the one thing they lack is heavy farming/agricultural equipment to get shit done fast, and that would be a great biz.

The two immediate challenges I see:
1) language/trust barrier. No one's gonna trust a foreigner who doesn't even speak the language. The one's who "do" are gonna screw you over in some way, shape, or form (steal the equipment, not pay and you're not gonna collect).

2) capital - you need a lot of money $50k will not get you far. You have import/exporting/transportation which will probably be $3-5k for each piece of equipment based upon my experience of purchasing foreign equipment for my business. And you'd have to own or lease that equipment, which is very expensive.

[Vacancier Permanent]

Great idea Scotian! That's also an idea that's been on the back of my mind for a while. The wisest thing would be before you do any biz/importing, is to select a location, go spend a few months there while making and cultivating contacts and connections. See what material/equipment are being used there and where there is a need for new more robust high end Canadian machinery. Basically most places from central and Latin America, EE, SEA as well as Africa would be a good spot. Just pick any country that you fancy, go there, do your due diligence while there and see for yourself and take it from there.

[Cattle Rustler]

Someone mentioned this exact business plan on a previous RVF post. His move was to export it to african countries since the region is booming (angola, nigeria, senegal, mozambique, south africa, kenya, ethiopia).

It could work but you'll need money and a local person you can trust as Pyre mentioned.

[Dr. Howard]

This has been going on with logging equipment since the 90s. From Canada to South America and Russia back then, I'd imagine different places now.

I don't have any inside information but just further confirmation that it works and people are making money off of it.

One logging guy lucked into into it via his russian mail order bride, he was good at business but low on game, now he's even better at business with a russian in.

[MHaes]

Yeah, I definitely think billbudsocket is right - putting it on a trailer, driving it down there, and selling the truck/trailer/dozer would be probably your best bet.

You said you could have around $100k a year from now, and that you are going to travel down to Latin America anyway this year, so maybe establish contacts and see what equipment there is demand for this year, and execute on that plan next year.

[CaliforniaSupreme]

+1 on reselling
The market is a bit of a niche that has players in it right now, as an outsider it'd take a while to get your business going. I know that some people from China do this stuff and make a fair bit of money, but they do this full time and deal with tons of issues. You could also make some money in the parts game- you could sell some used D9 parts, etc.

[scotian]

Thanks for the input guys, I'm going to get a hold of my contacts and see what they have to say, there has to be more to it because I know that my contacts are basically blue collar red neck Canadians but they do this all over the world. Actually the one place that I remember my uncle telling me he got ripped off in was Russia, they just didn't pay, but he successfully shipped to SE Asia, South America, etc and I don't think he ever left Canada.

(10-08-2013 06:16 PM)billbudsocket Wrote:  

I think that could work, especially with bulldozers. I know in Nicaragua, old Cat dozers from the 80's go for 20-40k USD. I'm considering bringing down a 1990s D3 or D4 (or equivalent JD model) dozer to rent out, but you instead just sell it once you got it imported. Dump trucks in Central America are a dime a dozen, and the taxes on lowboy trailers are outrageous, so the best way to go is get a medium duty flat bed truck, load the dozer on the flatbed, and sell the truck and the dozer when you get to your destination country.

That would be quite the adventure driving all the way down through Mexico and central America, not sure I'd make it out alive!

[Cattle Rustler]

Just bring enough cash to pay off the cartels. They won't harm you if you pay, it's in their interest to keep people passing through so they can collect more money in "tolls".

Source: I've taken a few cars filled with stuff (appliances, bikes, etc) from Texas to Mexico City and had to pay my "toll".

[CaliforniaSupreme]

(10-08-2013 09:09 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  

Just bring enough cash to pay off the cartels. They won't harm you if you pay, it's in their interest to keep people passing through so they can collect more money in "tolls".

Source: I've taken a few cars filled with stuff (appliances, bikes, etc) from Texas to Mexico City and had to pay my "toll".

How much was the "tax" for you? Do they just stop you in the middle of nowhere?

[Cattle Rustler]

Interestingly enough, it's like a highway toll. The further the next toll is, the more you pay. In addition, you pay a toll on how much you have with you too. Old cars pay less than new cars.
The Zetas are like the IRS.

$25-30 for an empty van/pick-up($20)
$50 for a van filled with stuff. TV's, fridge, bikes, a grill.
You pay with US dollars, not with pesos. Police from the border to Monterrey want dollars too.
(Ain't that a bitch?)

They had checkpoints on the highway, some where in the middle of nowhere and some where near a city's entrance. Dallas-Mex City: One outside Nuevo Laredo and another one by San Luis Potosi coming from Monterrey. Sometimes narcos are high during the night and forget that their job is to tax you, not rob or kill you. Don't drive these stretches after dark: Nuevo Laredo to MTY (2 hours), MTY to SLP (6 hours), SLP to Queretaro (4 hours). Central mexico is calm, but the southern and northern regions are hot.

While waiting for the van/truck to be imported I chatted with some guys from Guatemala and El Salvador. They told me they brought around $500 to pay them off along the way.

It's been a while since I did a run (3 years), so my info might be outdated as the zetas are losing the drug war.

[CaliforniaSupreme]

(10-08-2013 09:55 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  

Interestingly enough, it's like a highway toll. The further the next toll is, the more you pay. In addition, you pay a toll on how much you have with you too. Old cars pay less than new cars.
The Zetas are like the IRS.

$25-30 for an empty van/pick-up($20)
$50 for a van filled with stuff. TV's, fridge, bikes, a grill.
You pay with US dollars, not with pesos. Police from the border to Monterrey want dollars too.
(Ain't that a bitch?)

They had checkpoints on the highway, some where in the middle of nowhere and some where near a city's entrance. Dallas-Mex City: One outside Nuevo Laredo and another one by San Luis Potosi coming from Monterrey. Sometimes narcos are high during the night and forget that their job is to tax you, not rob or kill you. Don't drive these stretches after dark: Nuevo Laredo to MTY (2 hours), MTY to SLP (6 hours), SLP to Queretaro (4 hours). Central mexico is calm, but the southern and northern regions are hot.

While waiting for the van/truck to be imported I chatted with some guys from Guatemala and El Salvador. They told me they brought around $500 to pay them off along the way.

It's been a while since I did a run (3 years), so my info might be outdated as the zetas are losing the drug war.

Jesus that's screwed up.
I'd pack heat and get my tax return early >

kidding xD

[WanderingSoul]

There is a Vice video about doing this in Africa. It was posted here a few weeks ago probably. It seemed like a huge pain in the ass and took a month or longer to get the trucks from South Africa up to wherever it was they took them. Lots of border and visa issues, not having the parts available to repair the truck while driving it across Africa, Africans just being African, etc. I could imagine it would be easier in SA than African though. Watch the Vice video, I think it was titled something like Entrepreneur Cowboys in Africa or some shit like that.

[scotian]

(10-08-2013 11:33 PM)RioNomad Wrote:  

There is a Vice video about doing this in Africa. It was posted here a few weeks ago probably. It seemed like a huge pain in the ass and took a month or longer to get the trucks from South Africa up to wherever it was they took them. Lots of border and visa issues, not having the parts available to repair the truck while driving it across Africa, Africans just being African, etc. I could imagine it would be easier in SA than African though. Watch the Vice video, I think it was titled something like Entrepreneur Cowboys in Africa or some shit like that.

Ya I watched that, crazy video. Rionomad I should just steal a bunch of welder's masks from work and sell them in Thailand, I would make a killing. I'm sure you've seen it, as I did many times over there, Thai dudes welding with no mask on, maybe sun glasses but usually not and always smoking a dart and wearing sandals. Prolonged exposure to welding arc pretty much guarantees early blindness, not to mention the molten metal dripping off welds that could seriously burn their bodies.

[CaliforniaSupreme]

Sell stuff from Harbor Freight Tools overseas. Cheap, works long enough for it to be worth the money, and you can mark it up big time.

[T and A Man]

(10-08-2013 06:28 PM)Pyre Wrote:  

2) capital - you need a lot of money $50k will not get you far. You have import/exporting/transportation which will probably be $3-5k for each piece of equipment based upon my experience of purchasing foreign equipment for my business. And you'd have to own or lease that equipment, which is very expensive.

You don't need 100% of the capital up front for neither the purchase nor shipping.

All you ever need is guarantees of an order and a guarantee of shipping, take them to any funder and you will get the funding.

[T and A Man]

Look at Chile, their government has reformed a lot, thus their practices are relatively transparent and some rule of law.

IIRC they mine heaps of copper amongst other thing.

Boat will be Vancouver down.

[WanderingSoul]

(10-08-2013 11:51 PM)scotian Wrote:  

(10-08-2013 11:33 PM)RioNomad Wrote:  

There is a Vice video about doing this in Africa. It was posted here a few weeks ago probably. It seemed like a huge pain in the ass and took a month or longer to get the trucks from South Africa up to wherever it was they took them. Lots of border and visa issues, not having the parts available to repair the truck while driving it across Africa, Africans just being African, etc. I could imagine it would be easier in SA than African though. Watch the Vice video, I think it was titled something like Entrepreneur Cowboys in Africa or some shit like that.

Ya I watched that, crazy video. Rionomad I should just steal a bunch of welder's masks from work and sell them in Thailand, I would make a killing. I'm sure you've seen it, as I did many times over there, Thai dudes welding with no mask on, maybe sun glasses but usually not and always smoking a dart and wearing sandals. Prolonged exposure to welding arc pretty much guarantees early blindness, not to mention the molten metal dripping off welds that could seriously burn their bodies.

I worked as a welder for like 9 months right out of high school. I got the job because of my aunts boyfriend. I'd never welded a day in my life, but they needed another guy and he got me the job. Welding the same fucking fence panel in a jig over and over and over.

After my first day of welding I went home and went to bed. I woke up at like 3AM and I had metal shards in my eyes, or so I thought. I freaked out and started washing my eyes out like crazy.

Woke up the next morning and they were fine so I went to work. Told my aunts boyfriend and he was crackin up, told me I had flash burn.

I knew you weren't supposed to look at the light while welding, but we welded across form each other on the jig so I always got a flash here and there at first. I figured it was kind of like sun damage, yeah it will fuck with you when you are old, but a little sun burn here and there is no biggie. How wrong I was. Even just a little bit of exposure to watching someone weld is bad news.

I see those Thai dudes all of the time in shorts, t-shirt, flip flops and welding on some big ass steel beam. Other dudes just sitting right around the weld like it is a camp fire with no hood on. Crazy.

[billbudsocket]

(10-08-2013 09:05 PM)scotian Wrote:  

Thanks for the input guys, I'm going to get a hold of my contacts and see what they have to say, there has to be more to it because I know that my contacts are basically blue collar red neck Canadians but they do this all over the world. Actually the one place that I remember my uncle telling me he got ripped off in was Russia, they just didn't pay, but he successfully shipped to SE Asia, South America, etc and I don't think he ever left Canada.

(10-08-2013 06:16 PM)billbudsocket Wrote:  

I think that could work, especially with bulldozers. I know in Nicaragua, old Cat dozers from the 80's go for 20-40k USD. I'm considering bringing down a 1990s D3 or D4 (or equivalent JD model) dozer to rent out, but you instead just sell it once you got it imported. Dump trucks in Central America are a dime a dozen, and the taxes on lowboy trailers are outrageous, so the best way to go is get a medium duty flat bed truck, load the dozer on the flatbed, and sell the truck and the dozer when you get to your destination country.

That would be quite the adventure driving all the way down through Mexico and central America, not sure I'd make it out alive!

I make the trip down to Central America once or twice a year driving and have not had any problems so far, except with the border patrol in Honduras, they can be quite sketchy there, they will try to make up any excuse to try to fine you to get a bribe. I generally stay on the toll roads in Mexico and stick to the Pacific coast side when I cross from the USA to avoid the problems across the border from Laredo.
If you only drive during the day you shouldn't have any problems.

[Deacon0228]

I sold to a Costa Rican buyer some machinery for metal production last year. Most of them come to Miami to oversee export and he passed by my fathers factory. Paid me cash on the spot and even decided to buy a cargo to railer I had. He wanted to fit a bobcat inside that he had bought to send back.

I'm currently trying to sell some punch presses but having a difficult time finding buyers. It's a good business as I sell used clothing in bundles to these countries and if you can establish a point of business in any place like that It can yield a good profit. Always have to be aware about shady customs, robbing, shipping hassles.

[nomansland]

Scotian, any progress with this so far?

I am looking into brokering import/export deals and think heavy equipment would be a good niche compared to regular retail products.

[elabayarde]

I have a very hot hot idea.... With legit research on the Asian market. It's oil field based. Anyone who is looking to get into something and may have something to offer, in looking for a partner.

[renotime]

(10-08-2013 11:33 PM)RioNomad Wrote:  

There is a Vice video about doing this in Africa. It was posted here a few weeks ago probably. It seemed like a huge pain in the ass and took a month or longer to get the trucks from South Africa up to wherever it was they took them. Lots of border and visa issues, not having the parts available to repair the truck while driving it across Africa, Africans just being African, etc. I could imagine it would be easier in SA than African though. Watch the Vice video, I think it was titled something like Entrepreneur Cowboys in Africa or some shit like that.

Found it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GslPzhFLyas

[Chaos]

Does anyone have intel on where the big heavy machinery auctions are taking place in the UK? I'm particulary looking for excavators.