Government shutdown
Quote: (10-01-2013 03:21 PM)Aliblahba Wrote:
Contractors fuel the government manpower. Do you guys really think actual gov't employees do anything? Contractors saved the taxpayer a fortune overseas, and countless lives of the warfighter. We work to keep our jobs and for the companies to continue contracts. Gov't employees can't get fired for shit, and don't really care.
Ali:
You are doing a salesmanship on govt contractors, and if it is based on your personal circumstances, I don't want you to take my comments personally or to insult you.
I think that people's opinions about government contractors is going to vary, and all that you said is not necessarily true - though some of what you said may be true in some circumstances.
As you know there is a lot of controversy surrounding the topic of government contractors, and in various ways government contracting has become problematic and corrupted b/c of how much money is going into it and some of the auditing difficulties.
There are some trade offs too, and some things that you mentioned as positives can be construed as negatives. Probably it is no not necessary to get into these kinds of discussions about pros and cons of govt contracting.
Generally, I have no problems with individuals making money however they can within a system (and contracting is one of those systems), but i may not agree with several aspects of the system.
Let me just leave my comment information that government contracting, especially in various military jobs, has greatly increased in the last 10 years (and we could gather various data points to show this considerable increase of contractors), and my opinion that it has increased much more than it is justified and ultimately cost the american people more than it is worth and also I become bothered by too much quasi privatization of traditionally public services. that does not make me anti-american, anti-capitalist, socialist or communist.. he he he ..
In these regards opinions can vary, and it could be a long discussion to say why one comes down one way or another (to flesh out the pros and the cons) on the topic of federal govt contractor proliferations (like rabbits in australia).
Well, that's just swell. I had to file an extension on filing my taxes. I received the W-2 I needed a few weeks ago but my dumb ass waited until last night to e-file. They keep rejecting my return for some nonsense about my SSN but I can't call them because their offices are shut down. The extended deadline to file is October 15th. Fuck my life.
Look on the brightside enigma, all those unregistered immigrants are still getting their benefits. Western Union won't be closed either. FWIW.
Quote: (10-01-2013 03:08 PM)K Galt Wrote:
We're like an unemployed family living on welfare in a section-8 housing ghetto, arguing about buying a car or a boat on our maxed out credit cards. When someone says "hey, how can we afford either, when our credit cards are almost maxed out and we have no money or jobs?
K Galt: Certainly you are entitled to your opinion and even speculation about the direction that this matter is going to go. And you make several good points.
Nonetheless, I find your comparison of government budget like a family budget to be lacking. the government's budget is not the same as a family's budget - especially the US government. There are at least a couple of ways that the govt budget is different.
First some things are neither profitable or agreed by everyone, but are legislated as must do this service and with some complicated funding scheme... including wars, policing social services.
second the US can make almost as much money as it wants b/c the US dollar happens to be the international standard (we shouldn't wanna screw up that cush deal)
third - sometimes its gonna make economic sense to over leverage a govt's budget, and it would be unwise to live within the budget when you should be leveraging in order to stimulate the economy or maybe for some other reason.
This example of comparing households to the govt is frequently used in mainstream media.. in order to get people to relate and to agree... and there is definitely faulty logic in that kind of comparison for the purpose of persuading us to engage in austerity, belt tightening, living within our means or whatever you wanna call it.
Quote: (10-01-2013 03:31 PM)Easy E Wrote:
Quote: (10-01-2013 03:21 PM)It_is_my_time Wrote:
Quote: (10-01-2013 03:14 PM)Easy E Wrote:
Quote: (10-01-2013 03:12 PM)It_is_my_time Wrote:
Quote: (10-01-2013 03:09 PM)Easy E Wrote:
Where did you get this statistic from?
I've heard it before, recently, and I believe it was from the CBO.
Link to it. Don't just say "You heard."
Yep, the CBO...
http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecar...y-of-four/
Did you read the article? It is not by the CBO. It is by Forbes. The author is constantly updating it due having several other critics point out the flaws in the calculation and methodology.
We really won't know how much more it will cost per family until the ACA has been in effect for a while. This is especially due to the fact that a lot of families (up to 400% of the poverty level) will get subsidies to help cover the cost of healthcare.
Some guys seem to spew out Fox news talking points, without really reading.
Even the Forbes article talks about a family of four spending an additional $7,500 over 8 years (so the number looks big). it is not an annual number, it is over 8 years. That's less than a$1,000 a year in my rudimentary calculation, and then then the article says something about saving $2,500 annually. But who knows how it plays out exactly. i don't have time to be reading all the false information that guys are throwing out their on their talking points.
Sure the numbers are a little confusing and may not make sense, but this really is not very accurate data set when we are talking about averages and then one person speculating about what another media entity said, without reading the report and NOT getting basic facts correct.
As someone who recently stopped following politics closely, I'm glad I stopped paying attention. I'm so sick of our government's incompetence.
Blame Democrats, Republicans, Obama, or Boehner all you want but our politics are a direct function of our people's culture and intelligence. I'm certainly not optimistic.
Blame Democrats, Republicans, Obama, or Boehner all you want but our politics are a direct function of our people's culture and intelligence. I'm certainly not optimistic.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Nonetheless, I find your comparison of government budget like a family budget to be lacking. the government's budget is not the same as a family's budget - especially the US government.
It's just a simple metaphor to make a relevant point. All this proposed Government spending is based on spending more money than we collect from the taxpayers. That means, we "borrow" the money from the Federal Reserve Banking System to pay for all this. This is one of the biggest reasons why we have trillions of dollars in national debt with no hope of ever paying it off.
First some things are neither profitable or agreed by everyone, but are legislated as must do this service and with some complicated funding scheme... including wars, policing social services.
Yes, we don't have enough money, so the Government is saying we need to keep borrowing more to pay for all this stuff. Whether you argue if it's "legislated" or "must do services" doesn't have any bearing on the basic facts - the Government keeps wanting to spend more than they collect in taxes. Buying things with money we don't have.
second the US can make almost as much money as it wants b/c the US dollar happens to be the international standard...
The US doesn't "make as much money as it wants." It borrows it. Every last dime that is supposedly "created" by the Federal Reserve Banking system is "borrowed" into existence.
Besides that, don't you understand that the more money the Fed creates the higher it drives inflation?
...sometimes its gonna make economic sense to over leverage a govt's budget, and it would be unwise to live within the budget when you should be leveraging in order to stimulate the economy or maybe for some other reason.
Sometimes? We've been doing it since 1913...which means we've been over leverage for 100 years now. Live within the budget?
Hah!
It's just a simple metaphor to make a relevant point. All this proposed Government spending is based on spending more money than we collect from the taxpayers. That means, we "borrow" the money from the Federal Reserve Banking System to pay for all this. This is one of the biggest reasons why we have trillions of dollars in national debt with no hope of ever paying it off.
First some things are neither profitable or agreed by everyone, but are legislated as must do this service and with some complicated funding scheme... including wars, policing social services.
Yes, we don't have enough money, so the Government is saying we need to keep borrowing more to pay for all this stuff. Whether you argue if it's "legislated" or "must do services" doesn't have any bearing on the basic facts - the Government keeps wanting to spend more than they collect in taxes. Buying things with money we don't have.
second the US can make almost as much money as it wants b/c the US dollar happens to be the international standard...
The US doesn't "make as much money as it wants." It borrows it. Every last dime that is supposedly "created" by the Federal Reserve Banking system is "borrowed" into existence.
Besides that, don't you understand that the more money the Fed creates the higher it drives inflation?
...sometimes its gonna make economic sense to over leverage a govt's budget, and it would be unwise to live within the budget when you should be leveraging in order to stimulate the economy or maybe for some other reason.
Sometimes? We've been doing it since 1913...which means we've been over leverage for 100 years now. Live within the budget?
Hah!
Quote: (10-01-2013 04:15 PM)K Galt Wrote:
Nonetheless, I find your comparison of government budget like a family budget to be lacking. the government's budget is not the same as a family's budget - especially the US government.
It's just a simple metaphor to make a relevant point. All this proposed Government spending is based on spending more money than we collect from the taxpayers. That means, we "borrow" the money from the Federal Reserve Banking System to pay for all this. This is one of the biggest reasons why we have trillions of dollars in national debt with no hope of ever paying it off.
First some things are neither profitable or agreed by everyone, but are legislated as must do this service and with some complicated funding scheme... including wars, policing social services.
Yes, we don't have enough money, so the Government is saying we need to keep borrowing more to pay for all this stuff. Whether you argue if it's "legislated" or "must do services" doesn't have any bearing on the basic facts - the Government keeps wanting to spend more than they collect in taxes. Buying things with money we don't have.
second the US can make almost as much money as it wants b/c the US dollar happens to be the international standard...
The US doesn't "make as much money as it wants." It borrows it. Every last dime that is supposedly "created" by the Federal Reserve Banking system is "borrowed" into existence.
Besides that, don't you understand that the more money the Fed creates the higher it drives inflation?
...sometimes its gonna make economic sense to over leverage a govt's budget, and it would be unwise to live within the budget when you should be leveraging in order to stimulate the economy or maybe for some other reason.
Sometimes? We've been doing it since 1913...which means we've been over leverage for 100 years now. Live within the budget?
Hah!
You are making several of my points in several respects - though we still disagree in other respects..
Nonetheless, you conclude that the govt should live within its means of what it takes in, and I say that is not appropriate (especially if we want to prosper) for a large govt like the US to live within what it takes in, and to require us to live within taxes will be like putting us in a boxing ring with one or maybe even two hands tied behind our back.
Nonetheless, you conclude that the govt should live within its means of what it takes in, and I say that is not appropriate (especially if we want to prosper) for a large govt like the US to live within what it takes in, and to require us to live within taxes will be like putting us in a boxing ring with one or maybe even two hands tied behind our back.
The warfare/welfare state is intrinsically connected to Fiat Currency from a Central Banking System. No Central Bank creating money out of debt (financial operations on the international market), and you don't have politicians able to propose spending to buy votes from constituents and pay off lobbyists for regulatory favors.
But I can already tell we will get nowhere debating this topic, as you are arguing for the necessity of debt spending to maintain all these things you deem necessary.
Whether it be guns or butter, I say they are all unnecessary, and all designed to put the country into debt (and covertly under control) of the 1% international banking elite.
Domestic entitlement spending, foreign aid spending, and spending on fiat wars on foreign shores are all the results of politicians leveraging the ability to run up the national debt for the past century without regard to the eventual bill coming due.
The warfare/welfare state is intrinsically connected to Fiat Currency from a Central Banking System. No Central Bank creating money out of debt (financial operations on the international market), and you don't have politicians able to propose spending to buy votes from constituents and pay off lobbyists for regulatory favors.
But I can already tell we will get nowhere debating this topic, as you are arguing for the necessity of debt spending to maintain all these things you deem necessary.
Whether it be guns or butter, I say they are all unnecessary, and all designed to put the country into debt (and covertly under control) of the 1% international banking elite.
Domestic entitlement spending, foreign aid spending, and spending on fiat wars on foreign shores are all the results of politicians leveraging the ability to run up the national debt for the past century without regard to the eventual bill coming due.
http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/Shutdown_Blues
Quote:Quote:
A Congress which has arranged to shut down the federal government because it disapproves of a law passed by a previous Congress, signed by the president, and upheld by the Supreme Court, a law that does nothing more than extend the possibility of health insurance to the millions of Americans who do not presently have it, a law based on a proposal from a conservative think-tank and taken out on the test track in Massachusetts by a Republican governor who also happens to have been the party's 2012 nominee for president of the United States. That is why the government of the United States is, in large measure, closed this morning.
I wish this was a total government shutdown. It would be interesting to see what would happen. The libertarian types are always saying we have too much government. As it stands now, the Tea Party types can hold out for weeks before they cave because they have been shielded from the worst consequences of a true government shutdown.
That is why the government of the United States is, in large measure, closed this morning.
We could only wish it really did.
What they really did was put up the appearances of closing.
We will still have the NSA monitoring our every communication and electronic activity.
We will still have TSA gate raping and radiating all airline passengers.
We will still have the DEA, BATF, FBI and CIA continue to raid, arrest, harass and carry out policing activities.
We will still have our military drawing pay checks and spending money to purchase weapons and supplies to continue to engage in all these corporate wars on foreign shores.
We will still have all the social security, medicare, medicaid, WIC, SNAP, and all the other entitlement spending disbursements being printed and mailed out to all the dependent recipients.
We will still have the DOE operating the public schooling system.
We will still have the FDA raiding raw milk farmers and shutting down small farms for "violating" Monsanto patents on their GMO seeds.
In short, the "Government shutdown" is a dog-and-pony show for which they are closing down the national parks and telling non-essential employees to stay home. It's the good old "divide and conquer" tactic of playing the Republicons versus the Demonrats. Don't buy into the false paradigm of the two-party dialectic.
But they will not shutdown their continued operations to create our Brave New World Order police state.
We could only wish it really did.
What they really did was put up the appearances of closing.
We will still have the NSA monitoring our every communication and electronic activity.
We will still have TSA gate raping and radiating all airline passengers.
We will still have the DEA, BATF, FBI and CIA continue to raid, arrest, harass and carry out policing activities.
We will still have our military drawing pay checks and spending money to purchase weapons and supplies to continue to engage in all these corporate wars on foreign shores.
We will still have all the social security, medicare, medicaid, WIC, SNAP, and all the other entitlement spending disbursements being printed and mailed out to all the dependent recipients.
We will still have the DOE operating the public schooling system.
We will still have the FDA raiding raw milk farmers and shutting down small farms for "violating" Monsanto patents on their GMO seeds.
In short, the "Government shutdown" is a dog-and-pony show for which they are closing down the national parks and telling non-essential employees to stay home. It's the good old "divide and conquer" tactic of playing the Republicons versus the Demonrats. Don't buy into the false paradigm of the two-party dialectic.
But they will not shutdown their continued operations to create our Brave New World Order police state.
Quote: (10-01-2013 02:52 PM)McQueensPlayboyRules Wrote:
Let's talk math.
With ObamaCare the AVERAGE family was going to save around $2,500 a year; now it's been established it's going to cost them an ADDITIONAL $7,000+ a year.
Math doesn't lie and anyone who thinks ObamaCare is good for America (not to mention it's completely unconstitutional), needs their head examined.
Much love to all my RVF brethen but it is what it is.
Odd, from what I've read, in the places where the exchanges are already established, healthcare premiums have dropped in price. I'll read up on that Forbes article.
Nonetheless, the medical device tax is stupid, and the Republicans would've had a respectable position on that. But of course they don't handle it well.
Regardless of anything else, it continually amazes me how insistent the Republicans are on their own political suicide as a viable national party.
Quote: (10-01-2013 04:56 PM)K Galt Wrote:
That is why the government of the United States is, in large measure, closed this morning.
We could only wish it really did.
What they really did was put up the appearances of closing.
We will still have the NSA monitoring our every communication and electronic activity.
We will still have TSA gate raping and radiating all airline passengers.
We will still have the DEA, BATF, FBI and CIA continue to raid, arrest, harass and carry out policing activities.
We will still have our military drawing pay checks and spending money to purchase weapons and supplies to continue to engage in all these corporate wars on foreign shores.
We will still have all the social security, medicare, medicaid, WIC, SNAP, and all the other entitlement spending disbursements being printed and mailed out to all the dependent recipients.
We will still have the DOE operating the public schooling system.
We will still have the FDA raiding raw milk farmers and shutting down small farms for "violating" Monsanto patents on their GMO seeds.
In short, the "Government shutdown" is a dog-and-pony show for which they are closing down the national parks and telling non-essential employees to stay home. It's the good old "divide and conquer" tactic of playing the Republicons versus the Demonrats. Don't buy into the false paradigm of the two-party dialectic.
But they will not shutdown their continued operations to create our Brave New World Order police state.
90% of the IRS isn't considered "essential". Think of how large of a boom our economy would have here as almost the entire middle class gets a 20% pay raise via no income tax. We can all dream, right?
Quote: (10-01-2013 04:43 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:
http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/Shutdown_Blues
Quote:Quote:
A Congress which has arranged to shut down the federal government because it disapproves of a law passed by a previous Congress, signed by the president, and upheld by the Supreme Court, a law that does nothing more than extend the possibility of health insurance to the millions of Americans who do not presently have it, a law based on a proposal from a conservative think-tank and taken out on the test track in Massachusetts by a Republican governor who also happens to have been the party's 2012 nominee for president of the United States. That is why the government of the United States is, in large measure, closed this morning.
lol definitely not true but nice try... multiple thousand page bills aren't so simple, sorry
This is just practice because we are going to have a real government shutdown in a few years.... This beast is out of control. We are still living in our dream world with very low interest rates. Those have been at a historically low level for over a decade now but the tide will turn at some point and our Interest on our debt will outweigh out tax revenue.
Most of the world is living in a similar fantasy.
There is a damn good reason why so many people are renouncing their citizenship. The number is still in the low thousands but it has been growing quickly and these are your local car salesmen who are doing it. Hell there is a wait to renounce an American Citizenship.... Think about how crazy that sounds compared to just a decade ago.
Renouncing an American Citizenship was unheard of not very long ago.
Most of the world is living in a similar fantasy.
There is a damn good reason why so many people are renouncing their citizenship. The number is still in the low thousands but it has been growing quickly and these are your local car salesmen who are doing it. Hell there is a wait to renounce an American Citizenship.... Think about how crazy that sounds compared to just a decade ago.
Renouncing an American Citizenship was unheard of not very long ago.
Treat your body like a dumpster>>>>>deserve free healthcare. ![[Image: tard.gif]](https://rooshvforum.network/images/smilies/new/tard.gif)
Obviously not everyone is born healthy or able to avoid catastrophic events, but I'm so sick of seeing people who treat their body like complete shit and then bitch about healthcare, hospital bills, or how unlucky they are.
Obviously not everyone is born healthy or able to avoid catastrophic events, but I'm so sick of seeing people who treat their body like complete shit and then bitch about healthcare, hospital bills, or how unlucky they are.
Also, how much would car insurance cost if it covered all repairs or damage? Small scratch, flat tire.... all routine things. Everything with a small deductible.
And if everyone had that service, how many lazy people would change their oil regularly? Why bother? If something happens then the insurance company has it.
And if everyone had that service, how many lazy people would change their oil regularly? Why bother? If something happens then the insurance company has it.
Quote: (10-01-2013 03:28 PM)Que enspastic Wrote:
Why is American healthcare so expensive compared to the rest of the world?
Is there anyway you can make it cheaper?
1. Corporations and Lawyers drive the cost of health care in US to ridiculous heights, CEO making unreal bonuses, Lobbyists make laws that favor corporations and working class people have to pay for it.
Pharmaceuticals, Device Companies, Hospital Corporations are the top Culprit here. They are all Greedy beyong imagination
Answer to second question is NO, Not in our life time.
How or Why does a prescription of Antibiotic Costs $ 40 in US and same Antibiotic made the same company costs less then a dollar in another corner of the world ? Guess who besides the CEO's are sharing this filthy profit.
Insurance Companies are providing Incentives to have a Cardiac Bypass Surgery done in India by US trained Board Certified Physicians in Pristine Hospital that locals can't even afford and then some recovery time in a five star hotel at Goa Beach. Cost of Surgery in US $ 80-100,000. Cost in India $ 10,000.
Medical Tourism is on the Up and Up in Latin America as well, Saddens my heart to say but US healthcare has already seen it's better days.
"You can not fake good kids" - Mike Pence
![[Image: EverybodyLovesGreedo.jpg]](http://www.blogography.com/photos55/EverybodyLovesGreedo.jpg)
Quote: (10-01-2013 07:29 PM)Jaydublin Wrote:
Also, how much would car insurance cost if it covered all repairs or damage? Small scratch, flat tire.... all routine things. Everything with a small deductible.
And if everyone had that service, how many lazy people would change their oil regularly? Why bother? If something happens then the insurance company has it.
JayDublin: Your four postings from above are likely taken from FoxNews talking points, and they do not really elevate the conversation. Probably it would be fruitless to engage in such a conversation about your various points you are trying to use to distract the conversation into this quagmire... in the end, the govt should not be shut down at this time and this shut down is not good for american credit or for the american people... and the longer the shutdown goes on the bigger the negative affect on the american credit and people... like our grandmas for example...
Quote: (10-01-2013 09:04 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:
Quote: (10-01-2013 07:29 PM)Jaydublin Wrote:
Also, how much would car insurance cost if it covered all repairs or damage? Small scratch, flat tire.... all routine things. Everything with a small deductible.
And if everyone had that service, how many lazy people would change their oil regularly? Why bother? If something happens then the insurance company has it.
JayDublin: Your four postings from above are likely taken from FoxNews talking points, and they do not really elevate the conversation. Probably it would be fruitless to engage in such a conversation about your various points you are trying to use to distract the conversation into this quagmire... in the end, the govt should not be shut down at this time and this shut down is not good for american credit or for the american people... and the longer the shutdown goes on the bigger the negative affect on the american credit and people... like our grandmas for example...
Sorry but I hated Fox News well before Obama was elected and they went nutty. I do consider myself a responsible and conservative person but absolutely hate the republican party, maybe more than I hate the democratic party. I even consider Obama a much lesser evil than McCain.
You are very naive... they will end up passing a 1000 page bill full of earmarks and corrupt special interest BS and a few of those pages will be directed at a new debt ceiling. Just wait and see on that.
Its not that I think the shutdown was needed, I really don't care about it. American credit is fucked. We penalized the only company that downgraded us, if that doesn't tell you anything then I'm not sure there is any help for you. Just 3 government programs take up our entire tax revenue lol. This is not sustainable. Obviously a shutdown isn't the answer but there are major cuts coming down the road, whether we want them or not, they will be coming.
BTW the conversation was already distracted and everyone is assuming that healthcare prices just naturally climbed to these levels, like this is just what happens. Well it's not. These prices are consequences of actions/legislation.
Best to throw in the towel at this point.
Threads like this can be quite revealing in exposing the depths of one's psychosis.
Some guys are just totally off the deep end.
Threads like this can be quite revealing in exposing the depths of one's psychosis.
Some guys are just totally off the deep end.
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