[lurker]

I'm trying to get back my Indonesian skills with the goal of becoming relatively fluent over the long term. Anybody have a good resource for learning? I've downloaded a few podcasts but that isn't going to cut it. Is Rosetta Stone worth the price tag?

[Rutting Elephant]

If you have some familiarity with bahasa Indonesia, you already know how simple the grammar is. For a more or less structured approach you might check out bahasakita.com which also lets you know how people actually speak in non-formal settings (though poetic/obsolete words can be game-useful).
That said, the main issue is vocab. Tuttle has a $15 set of flash cards coming out next week which might be good. They had an atrocious mini dictionary years ago, but their "in a flash" set had quality control.
The best dictionary, better even than Indonesian-Indonesian ones, is Schmidgall-Tellings. If you can live with pdf searching, you can find the 2nd edition online.
"Sedang mati lampu" so I can't easily look up some other things on my phone. Will update later.

[RussianSoul]

I have always been curious about bahasa indonesian. It is spoken by a massive growing population of people and the economy there is really booming. One would would think that learning it as an expat could lead to some really interesting opportunities. Yet, there seems to be little interest in learning it unlike say Mandarin. What gives?

[Rutting Elephant]

(08-03-2013 03:50 AM)RussianSoul Wrote:  

I have always been curious about bahasa indonesian. It is spoken by a massive growing population of people and the economy there is really booming. One would would think that learning it as an expat could lead to some really interesting opportunities. Yet, there seems to be little interest in learning it unlike say Mandarin. What gives?

Even in Australia, where many high schools used to offer it, interest is dwindling. I'll give a few guesses as to why the US cares even less.
1) Tiny diaspora compared to Chinese people. Most Americans have never met an Indonesian or eaten Indonesian food (the latter not a big loss). Millions of poor Indonesians do menial work abroad in the Gulf, Singapore, Malaysia, and elsewhere but not so much in the US.
2) Well-deserved reputation as a corrupt, increasingly Islamist hellhole as far as government and justice is concerned, and as a flooded, disease-ridden, tsunami- and volcano-prone death trap on the environmental side.
3) Little economic incentive to learn the language. Besides textiles, manufacturing is weak. Natural resources are the only capital, and the big foreign interests already have full control of its extraction. The economic boom is not passed to the man on the street, and some of it is just bull, such as classifying households who spend more than $200/month as "middle class" despite some of the highest food prices in the world. Systemic, total corruption from elementary school onwards does not foster start-ups or entrepreneurship.
4) Cultural and intellectual atrophy caused in part by the slaughter of every thinking person in the anti-"Communist" genocide of 1965. Since all the schoolteachers were killed, soldiers had to take their place. No Nobel Prize contenders in any field, possibly ever. Restricted freedom of expression doesn't help.
5) Nonexistent sports prestige, except in badminton and a decent boxer, Daud, further reduces international visibly. Absolutely wretched national soccer team got humiliated in the past three weeks, losing to visiting Arsenal 7-0, Liverpool 2-0, and Chelsea 8-1. Though the games were in Jakarta, almost everybody wore English team jerseys and rooted against their own scrubs.

I don't know how much of that is actually relevant, but some points might tangentially contribute to the language's lack of popularity.

[roid]

(08-03-2013 12:51 AM)Rutting Elephant Wrote:  

"Sedang mati lampu" so I can't easily look up some other things on my phone. Will update later.

"sedang mati lampu" is too formal. People will know that you're not local. You should say "lagi mati lampu".

[Rutting Elephant]

(08-03-2013 08:17 AM)roid Wrote:  

(08-03-2013 12:51 AM)Rutting Elephant Wrote:  

"Sedang mati lampu" so I can't easily look up some other things on my phone. Will update later.

"sedang mati lampu" is too formal. People will know that you're not local. You should say "lagi mati lampu".

Yeah, I'm talking to someone asking about learning resources, dude.
I live with a well-connected Jakarta girl in her mid-twenties who doesn't speak English, so believe me, I know.

[roid]

(08-03-2013 08:14 AM)Rutting Elephant Wrote:  

1) Tiny diaspora compared to Chinese people. Most Americans have never met an Indonesian or eaten Indonesian food (the latter not a big loss). Millions of poor Indonesians do menial work abroad in the Gulf, Singapore, Malaysia, and elsewhere but not so much in the US.

True, but these are basically non-educated workers working as maids.

(08-03-2013 08:14 AM)Rutting Elephant Wrote:  

2) Well-deserved reputation as a corrupt, increasingly Islamist hellhole as far as government and justice is concerned, and as a flooded, disease-ridden, tsunami- and volcano-prone death trap on the environmental side.

Corruption is good. It makes things easier and faster. If you don't have street smart skills, don't ever attempt to start business in Indonesia.

(08-03-2013 08:14 AM)Rutting Elephant Wrote:  

3) Little economic incentive to learn the language. Besides textiles, manufacturing is weak. Natural resources are the only capital, and the big foreign interests already have full control of its extraction. The economic boom is not passed to the man on the street, and some of it is just bull, such as classifying households who spend more than $200/month as "middle class" despite some of the highest food prices in the world. Systemic, total corruption from elementary school onwards does not foster start-ups or entrepreneurship.

Textile is also weak in Indonesia. They are now importing a lot of textiles from China. LOL @ middle class. Most middle managers in MNCs there make about 3000 USD a month. These are educated folks. If you don't have education, you will make 200 USD a month like the rest of the people who are lazy as fuck. You're dead wrong about corruption. It fosters the ability to adapt to the situation. Only the strong survive. That's why you see a lot of small businesses in Indonesia as compared to other countries. The startup culture is unlike the US whereby a lot of venture capitalists will fund businesses; it's more like asking loans from relatives and close friends. My uncle is due to become multi millionaire soon due to his investment in Anthocephalus Cadamba. His initial investment was about 300K. If you know what you're doing and you're street smart, you will make big money in Indonesia. However, if you're like most western educated men, you will be slaughtered the day you start your business. Rules don't apply there. Only the strong survive.

(08-03-2013 08:14 AM)Rutting Elephant Wrote:  

4) Cultural and intellectual atrophy caused in part by the slaughter of every thinking person in the anti-"Communist" genocide of 1965. Since all the schoolteachers were killed, soldiers had to take their place. No Nobel Prize contenders in any field, possibly ever. Restricted freedom of expression doesn't help.

Where do you get this idea? You can badmouth the president and still not going to jail. Try doing that in Singapore, and you will get sued. In Indonesia, there's press freedom and freedom of speech.

(08-03-2013 08:14 AM)Rutting Elephant Wrote:  

5) Nonexistent sports prestige, except in badminton and a decent boxer, Daud, further reduces international visibly. Absolutely wretched national soccer team got humiliated in the past three weeks, losing to visiting Arsenal 7-0, Liverpool 2-0, and Chelsea 8-1. Though the games were in Jakarta, almost everybody wore English team jerseys and rooted against their own scrubs.

Indonesians really don't give a shit about sports achievements. Their only care is money just like most third world countries people. Besides the government is fucked up as hell. They never invest into sports or anything. So tough luck on that.

[Rutting Elephant]

There's a guy in prison right now who got beaten and prosecuted for writing "There is no God" on Facebook. See also the Shia leader from Sampang who is serving four years for practicing his religion. Islamist thugs prevented a feminist Muslim writer earlier this year from speaking at UGM (not exactly the kind of discourse RVF promotes lol, but still she should have been able to address her audience). Many other examples.
As for insulting the President, the DPR is currently pushing a law against it. Give it time.
As Pram said, it's not reformasi, it's orbabu "the New New Order."

Indonesia ranked 139 on the most recent World Press Freedom Index.

[roid]

(08-03-2013 08:46 AM)Rutting Elephant Wrote:  

There's a guy in prison right now who got beaten and prosecuted for writing "There is no God" on Facebook. See also the Shia leader from Sampang who is serving four years for practicing his religion. Islamist thugs prevented a feminist Muslim writer earlier this year from speaking at UGM (not exactly the kind of discourse RVF promotes lol, but still she should have been able to address her audience). Many other examples.
As for insulting the President, the DPR is currently pushing a law against it. Give it time.
As Pram said, it's not reformasi, it's orbabu "the New New Order."

Indonesia ranked 139 on the most recent World Press Freedom Index.

Of course man, don't be an idiot in Indonesia. If you insult Islam, you will be gone. Religion is a very sensitive issue there. But you are free to insult the government, ministers, state-owned companies, etc without the fear of getting sued.

Edit: when in rome, act like a roman. when in indonesia, act like an indonesian.

[Rutting Elephant]

Prita Mulyarsi spent months in jail for complaining about shitty hospital service on Facebook. A journalist was assaulted by a soldier for trying to photograph a plane crash. The ongoing farce trial over Cebongan, where soldiers busted into a jail and executed a bunch of guys who had killed their comrade in a club, has led to journalists being intimidated and threatened by the army.
Innocent people with Jakarta license plates recently had their cars vandalized after an attack on the Bandung team's bus in Jakarta. Yet they don't care about sports?
Corruption means only the wealthy flourish, such that there is near zero social mobility and said rich kids are lazy and stupid. I see you've never spent time on an Indonesian college campus.
Overall, your info is just off. You got especially burned on press freedom. Just take the L. I personally hope the thread gets back on track with some language talk.
I suggest you read Andre Vltchek's "Indonesia: Archipelago of Fear" to start fixing your knee-jerk defense of a failed state.

[DirectDanger]

Has anyone used http://www.learningindonesian.com? They have some free podcast that seem helpful for a beginner.

[lurker]

I've been listening to the Learning Indonesian podcast. I want something heavier duty.

[RussianSoul]

Rutting Elephant: Wow, you make Indonesia out to be a complete shit hole destined to remain one. I have never been but the forum reviews on Indo seem quite positive. Its hard to predict the future but Singapore was a grimy dump not so long ago...

[roid]

There are three sets of unspoken rules for each class:
1) Elite
2) Middle class
3) Peasant

Those that you just described below only apply to peasants. I am an Indonesian. So I know my shit well.

(08-03-2013 01:46 PM)Rutting Elephant Wrote:  

Prita Mulyarsi spent months in jail for complaining about shitty hospital service on Facebook. A journalist was assaulted by a soldier for trying to photograph a plane crash. The ongoing farce trial over Cebongan, where soldiers busted into a jail and executed a bunch of guys who had killed their comrade in a club, has led to journalists being intimidated and threatened by the army.
Innocent people with Jakarta license plates recently had their cars vandalized after an attack on the Bandung team's bus in Jakarta. Yet they don't care about sports?
Corruption means only the wealthy flourish, such that there is near zero social mobility and said rich kids are lazy and stupid. I see you've never spent time on an Indonesian college campus.
Overall, your info is just off. You got especially burned on press freedom. Just take the L. I personally hope the thread gets back on track with some language talk.
I suggest you read Andre Vltchek's "Indonesia: Archipelago of Fear" to start fixing your knee-jerk defense of a failed state.

[roid]

(08-03-2013 06:15 PM)DirectDanger Wrote:  

Has anyone used http://www.learningindonesian.com? They have some free podcast that seem helpful for a beginner.

The free podcast is pretty good. I don't know about the premium ones.

[roid]

He doesn't understand shit about Indonesia. You'd better get information from an Indonesian like me.

(08-04-2013 04:49 AM)RussianSoul Wrote:  

Rutting Elephant: Wow, you make Indonesia out to be a complete shit hole destined to remain one. I have never been but the forum reviews on Indo seem quite positive. Its hard to predict the future but Singapore was a grimy dump not so long ago...

[roid]

(08-02-2013 11:56 PM)lurker Wrote:  

I'm trying to get back my Indonesian skills with the goal of becoming relatively fluent over the long term. Anybody have a good resource for learning? I've downloaded a few podcasts but that isn't going to cut it. Is Rosetta Stone worth the price tag?

Get a job in Indonesia as an expat then you'll learn fast. Or hang out with some Indonesians in your country.

[roid]

This is the best Indonesian-English/English-Indonesian dictionary.

http://www.amazon.com/An-Indonesian-Engl...0801421276