[speakeasy]

http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracy...eandnearby

Quote:

Americans are marrying later than ever before. So they are dating longer, which creates opportunities for matchmakers. Some are quite direct. Bang with Friends (BWF), another app, allows users to specify which of their Facebook friends they would like to bed. If both parties feel the same way, BWF notifies them. If not, no one is any the wiser. BWF was booted from Apple’s app store, but that hasn’t stopped it from creating 200,000 pairings since its January launch. Colin Hodge, BWF’s boss, admits he came up with the concept while “a bit tipsy”.

Such apps make it easier to find potential partners, but don’t seem to have turned America into a nation of bed-hoppers. According to the Centres for Disease Control, young women (aged 15-44) claim to have had a median of 3.6 male lovers, while young men claim to have had 6.1 female ones. These figures may be inaccurate—men may exaggerate; women may undercount—but they have not changed much in years.

I also alluded to a different study that found quite similiar numbers. As long as these studies are being done anonymously, I have little reason to think that either side is lying all that much. I find the numbers staggeringly hard to believe, but they are what they are. If men were going to exaggerate their numbers, I'd expect them to at least lie and say 12, not 6. So even if there is lying going on, when you average it all out, it probably wouldn't account for more than a point difference. So let's just say the average American has about 5 sex partners in their life. Guys exaggerate the hell out of their sex lives. I've heard friends boasting to others about how many girls they've had when I know the real deal and that they didn't have nearly as many notches as they claim.

Do you guys think these figures are way off? If not, what do you think the real notch numbers are for average men and women? And if men are exaggeratting in polls, that would mean men's real number would be 4 or 5 in a lifetime. That's why I don't think they can be stretching the truth all that much or the number given would be higher.

[Beyond Borders]

(07-26-2013 04:19 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

I also alluded to a different study that found quite similiar numbers. As long as these studies are being done anonymously, I have little reason to think that either side is lying all that much. I find the numbers staggeringly hard to believe, but they are what they are. If men were going to exaggerate their numbers, I'd expect them to at least lie and say 12, not 6. So even if there is lying going on, when you average it all out, it probably wouldn't account for more than a point difference. So let's just say the average American has about 5 sex partners in their life. Guys exaggerate the hell out of their sex lives. I've heard friends boasting to others about how many girls they've had when I know the real deal and that they didn't have nearly as many notches as they claim.

Do you guys think these figures are way off? If not, what do you think the real notch numbers are for average men and women? And if men are exaggeratting in polls, that would mean men's real number would be 4 or 5 in a lifetime. That's why I don't think they can be stretching the truth all that much or the number given would be higher.

It blows my mind that men have been with that few women on average. Makes me feel pretty fortunate.

Both those numbers seem so low to me. Like they come from a different universe. LOL

Not fully prepared to believe it either.

[2Wycked]

Why don't they track something concrete & material, like condom sales?

Oh, wait, it is about soothing women's collective insecurity over their self-perceived promiscuity.

[Parlay44]

Bang with friends is bullshit. Guys will just select every female.

[Beyond Borders]

(07-26-2013 04:30 PM)2Wycked Wrote:  

Why don't they track something concrete & material, like condom sales?

Don't think that would work either. A lot of people don't use condoms, for one. For another, it doesn't say anything about the number of partners - just the number of bangs.

And how many guys buy condoms they never get the chance to use?

[Sonsowey]

I mean, do you guys mostly hang out with other players, or do you hang out with "normal" guys who don't dedicate a good portion of their lives to studying seduction?

My "normal" friends who aren't players, they're all probably around this number.

I think it's probably a good estimate, under 10 sexual partners in your life is definitely "average". And keep in mind there are absolute losers out there who can't get laid at all.

Of course we all have put in years of effort learning the skill of sleeping with women. So we're all likely way above average.

Seriously think about the "average" guy. There's a reason the term "Average Frustrated Chump" came into existence.

[speakeasy]

(07-26-2013 04:30 PM)2Wycked Wrote:  

Why don't they track something concrete & material, like condom sales?

Condom sales can't tell much. People in relationships often still use condoms as their main means of birth control. It doesn't say anything about *who* you are having sex with. Only that you are having sex.

[Beyond Borders]

(07-26-2013 04:35 PM)Sonsowey Wrote:  

I mean, do you guys mostly hang out with other players, or do you hang out with "normal" guys who don't dedicate a good portion of their lives to studying seduction?

My "normal" friends who aren't players, they're all probably around this number.

I think it's probably a good estimate, under 10 sexual partners in your life is definitely "average". And keep in mind there are absolute losers out there who can't get laid at all.

Of course we all have put in years of effort learning the skill of sleeping with women. So we're all likely way above average.

Seriously think about the "average" guy. There's a reason the term "Average Frustrated Chump" came into existence.

I don't know any men in real life who study seduction but most of my friends have been with quite a few women. I guess I always kind of ran with the party crowd though, so that probably has something to do with it.

[j r]

Knowing the median doesn't tell you that much. You really need to see the distribution. Also putting 15yr olds and 44yr olds in the same pool doesn't tell you much either, especially if we don't know the age distribution.

[speakeasy]

(07-26-2013 04:35 PM)Sonsowey Wrote:  

I mean, do you guys mostly hang out with other players, or do you hang out with "normal" guys who don't dedicate a good portion of their lives to studying seduction?

My "normal" friends who aren't players, they're all probably around this number.

I know both normal guys and players. For the normal guys who are open enough with me, I can only think of one that has a likely notch count over ten.

[thegmanifesto]

Yeah, those numbers are crazy low.

Even for the "average guy".

Think about it. A 28 year old guy goes on 10 spring breaks (at least).

If he just swoops one girl on spring break and spends the other 51 weeks of the year holed up in a cave trying to discover the cure for cancer, he has 10 partners.

[Beyond Borders]

(07-26-2013 04:57 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

Yeah, those numbers are crazy low.

Even for the "average guy".

Think about it. A 28 year old guy goes on 10 spring breaks (at least).

If he just swoops one girl on spring break and spends the other 51 weeks of the year holed up in a cave trying to discover the cure for cancer, he has 10 partners.

Then again, I don't know that the average guy gets laid on Spring break. I imagine most end up passing out in a hotel room full of guys that smells like vomit and booze. But I get what you mean. They've still got a whole year to get laid if not busy solving mankind's woes.

[speakeasy]

Which just goes to show that spring break in a place like Cancun must be just a big cocktease for men. Kinda makes sense when you think about. Most those girls are attention whores surrounded by a bunch of rowdy, drunk clowns thinking they're going to "get lucky".

Or think about those huge wolf packs of dudes that descend on Vegas and it's just this big bro fest and none of them get laid.

[Sonsowey]

(07-26-2013 04:57 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

Think about it. A 28 year old guy goes on 10 spring breaks (at least).

G I don't think an "average" guy does that.

I'm thinking now about a trip some friends from college took to Europe. 12 guys went. Not one got laid in 2 weeks.

Thinking about vacations "average guys" I know take. Maybe they go skiing with their friends and at night just get drunk and go to sleep. Maybe they take a vacation with their girlfriend. Maybe they just go somewhere and see the sights.

It doesn't make sense to us, we see sex all around us, but the "average guy" is totally clueless.

[Beyond Borders]

(07-26-2013 05:04 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

Which just goes to show that spring break in a place like Cancun must be just a big cocktease for men. Kinda makes sense when you think about. Most those girls are attention whores surrounded by a bunch of loud, drunk betas thinking they're going to "get lucky".

Yep, that's about what I was getting at. I guess if you think about it that's what most party situations boil down to.

[azulsombra]

These numbers are crazy low, i imagine this may be the average for utah but for the rest of the US im not buying it. I would guess average is around 8 for male and female. I would also like to see what the state average are...say florida vs. California.

[Sonsowey]

I mean Florida would have to be the sluttiest state of all, right?

[Celtic]

It seems low for those of us on those coasts, but I think the heartland might be a different world. Don't alot of people there marry their high school sweetheart? If you just have one or two girlfriends and then get married your number is going to be low.

Now, if you looked at the numbers for DC or NYC they would be WAY higher.

[TheSlayer]

(07-26-2013 04:57 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

Yeah, those numbers are crazy low.

Even for the "average guy".

Think about it. A 28 year old guy goes on 10 spring breaks (at least).

If he just swoops one girl on spring break and spends the other 51 weeks of the year holed up in a cave trying to discover the cure for cancer, he has 10 partners.

G, I will agree with the others. I know where you are coming from because for you and RVF members in general it seems that way. However, I can personally attest to the fact that even guys who are outgoing do not get laid on spring breaks.

I have gone on trips with my friends and talked to them about the ones they just went to. And none of my friends are losers who can't talk to women. They are as others put it "average". I will admit even I love drinking but for them the main goal is to get drunk and then hopefully find a girl to bang.

The guys who are outgoing and can open girls have difficulty getting laid too at times. Whether you are a natural or learned game (PUA), you still try and actually know to do the "right" things to bang a girl. Some of these guys will open, and even get a makeout or two but will not seal the deal.

Let me give you an example:

On my last trip there were 5 of us. One of us got a number from a cute 19 year old and her and my friend were supposed to meet-up. Unsurprisingly, she flaked and he texted her a couple of times to no avail. On the last day, I told him to send her a Hail Mary text (akin to Soup's dick pics) saying that this was his last day in the city, and if she wanted to meet before he left. I even said make it more explicit and say, "I am leaving tomorrow, let's bang." I told him he was never gonna see this girl again and she lives in a different city. Who gives a fuck? He refused to send the text and one of the other guys even laughed saying that it was very "stupid" to do that. I am not saying it would have worked as dick pics as a last resort rarely work but why not try?

To assume the average guy is getting laid on spring break or vacations is a stretch because I don't think they are.

I have another one of my friends who I think knows about "Game". Although we have never explicitly discussed pickup techniques we do talk about picking up women. He's actually very good at approaching, opening, getting numbers and makeouts but he sucks at closing and getting the actual bang. I tell him to be "pursue" the bang but he says he doesn't care enough.

I am not sure about the actual numbers but I doubt the average guy is banging more than 10 chicks throughout his lifetime. Many of these average guys and I have several friends who have done this get into a relationship at the first available chance and it just boggles my mind how they get tied into serious relationships in their early 20s.

I do think that the "average" women is getting laid more these days than the average guy.

[thegmanifesto]

Still disagree.

Remember this isn't counting for quality.

This is strictly number of swoops.

Think about it while we are on the subject of "average guys":

An "average guy" probably bangs at least 10 hookers per year. (Maybe 10 per month).

If he was a virgin at 18, by age 28 he has had sex with 100 girls.

This is the elephant in the room. Sure we don't swoop hookers, and guys on here "shore them" but you guys don't think there are all these hookers in the world and they never get paying clients?

I don't buy these numbers.

[speakeasy]

P4P shouldn't even factor into a man's notch count. At all. Any man could fly to Thailand and sleep with a different working girl a night but would those count as flags or notches? No way.

[TheSlayer]

(07-26-2013 06:43 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

Still disagree.

Remember this isn't counting for quality.

This is strictly number of swoops.

Think about it while we are on the subject of "average guys":

An "average guy" probably bangs at least 10 hookers per year. (Maybe 10 per month).

If he was a virgin at 18, by age 28 he has had sex with 100 girls.

This is the elephant in the room. Sure we don't swoop hookers, and guys on here "shore them" but you guys don't think there are all these hookers in the world and they never get paying clients?

I don't buy these numbers.

G, I think our definition of "average guys" differs. I am referring to average guys as maybe lesser betas. You seem to be referring to lowest of the low betas: guys who can't get laid at all.

There is no way an average guy is banging 10 hookers a month. Maybe the very rich guys who can't bang chicks on their own are sleeping with hookers left, right, and center. Most guys in their 20s and 30s couldn't even afford to bang 10 hookers a month. This isn't to say that there are men who use hookers.

I am just going by my friends around me. These are guys who I think of as "average". As I mentioned in my previous post, these guys can approach, open, but they can't seem to close the deal. It also needs to be mentioned that these guys don't have the 'player gene' in them. You also have to remember that these guys get into serious relationships at the first possible chance.

Three of my friends are already in very serious relationships and there is a good possibility that they will marry these girls (they are all in their early 20s, mind you). One of them even told me and he is an honest guy that he slept with 3 chicks before meeting his current GF.

[Dr. Howard]

(07-26-2013 05:35 PM)Celtic Wrote:  

It seems low for those of us on those coasts, but I think the heartland might be a different world. Don't alot of people there marry their high school sweetheart? If you just have one or two girlfriends and then get married your number is going to be low.

Now, if you looked at the numbers for DC or NYC they would be WAY higher.

Ah no, the midwest is full of super whores. The religious types balance out the girls who bang their way through every regular at the local bar because they are bored and thats their novelty.

PS, I love the heartland.

[MrXY]

(07-26-2013 05:18 PM)Sonsowey Wrote:  

I mean Florida would have to be the sluttiest state of all, right?

We try !

Lumping everyone from 15 to 44 is a real flaw is this study-it just makes no sense if you want to know how many partners people have in their lifetime as a total

It would be better to ask say, 65 year olds, how many partners they have had

We know that women significantly undercount their partners while men overcount.

We also know that people will lie on surveys even when it is anonymous, when the answers to the questions might be socially unacceptable or don't fit their self image

With all that together, I don't think these figures really have any credibility, even if they are similar to past results. They're probably just all inaccurate

I do think though, that most people do not have very many partners. It wouldn't surprise me at all that most men have less than a dozen partners in their life and quite a few a lot less than that. That's just based on my impression from my life experience.

A minority of men, say 15% are doing most of the banging. A small minority say 3-5% are doing the really high notch count banging.

My notch count in the last twelve months is 26; I only know one other guy I would consider a real player, he's 21 years old and says his lifetime count is 38, which knowing him well, I find credible. I bet the number of guys who get 100+ notches in their lifetime (hookers excluded) is less than 2%

I wouldn't be surprised if women now have more partners than men, but the banging is not equally distributed. At the bottom you have both males and females who have very low numbers of partners for various reasons-religion, social conformity, omeganess, poor health, etc.

But once you get into the mid range- I think women start to have more partners than men- but it's not the mid range guys they're banging-its the upper echelon guys with the high notch counts. so you have a small percentage of guys banging a lot of women and raising those women's notch count. At the top its almost all guys with the super high notch counts although there are a few women there like the one I met recently who told me she's banged 200 guys in the last five years since the ending of her marriage.

All just my speculation....

[Therapsid]

At some point we have to consider that much of what we characterize as slutty behavior among American women is in reality just posturing. They're acting more slutty and they're acting more entitled than ever, but in the end most of the time they don't consummate their licentiousness in actually fucking the guys you see them with. Just like most of the average guys we know don't seal the deal with the girls they hit on.