[Jim Kirk]

Q. for you guys -

I have become addicted to road running - I'm up to 32 miles a week and I'm aiming for the NYC Marathon.

I am big-framed Irish/German - 6' and 205 pounds My BMI would come in about 180 so I am still packing 25 pounds of fat. As I am putting on mileage I have eatern more and stopped loosing weight.

Q. After a 6 mile evening run - I suck down two Sam Adams. That's 4 to 5 times per week depending if I am going on a long run the following day. On the one weekday I do not run - I suck down 3 pints at lunch. My food is otherwise healthy. On the weekend - I will do 2 six-packs. I have stopped keeping vodka/scotch in the house because I quaff too much of it.

-Is that too much alcohol to absorb without real detrimental side effects.l Due to work and all the BS in New York - I think I would go nuts If I could not drink like that. What do you think?

[Quasi]

Hard to tell, I would have to quote "alcohol is the equivalent of yeast urea" as a neuroscientist I would tell you it fucks alot up, especially sleep and also male test production. But I guess if you not increasing your not in the DANGER zone, but the facts you do take time to post, stay of "hard" liquor and worry tell me, your one of my kind, which probably would do alot better not bothering with alcohol at all. Get soemthing else to vent..sex, exercise, meditation.. whatever

[hydrogonian]

holy shit quasi, your a neuroscientist?!..lol... nice.

Jim Kirk:

Alcohol causes extreme insulin spikes in the body, probably almost more than you could induce through eating sugar alone. When you calculate in the unique effect that it has on your neurotransmitters (causing a type of 'brain diabetes'), the pathological effect is worse than an insulin spike caused by only sugar. In my opinion, the neurotransmitter manipulation will have more adverse effects sooner than a general insulin disorder could cause.

So, yes, it has health effects that will cause you to keep that fat on.

If you want to keep drinking the alcohol, try to space it out more. Maybe only once every three days or more.

But try to ween yourself off of it. Try drinking non-alcoholic beer. It'll give you the easy glucose that your body is used to with the beer, without having such an adverse effect on your neurotransmitters. You can start by doing one regular beer and one non-alcoholic. Then move to all non-alcoholic.

I used to need alcohol to fall asleep in my younger years. Now I could care less if I dont drink all year. You can ween yourself off of it. And if the alcohol does cause a yeast reaction in your body, then the yeast itself can cause further craving for alcohol. You have to get your internal milieu right, by weening yourself off of the beer, to stop yeast/microbiologically induced cravings.

I switched to straight vodka a while ago precisely because it seems to better minimize the insulin spike effect. However, its like drinking the least poisonous poison. It still is bad. Also, I drink too much of it as well. I may try and cut it out completely soon.

The fact that you are craving beer after running tells me that you probably have a bit of insulin dis-regulation already. The beer spikes the insulin more than almost anything else can (an extreme anabolic state), countering the thirst and catabolic hormones induced through running. You need to train your body to need less of an anabolic stimulus after running. When that happens, you will likely notice being less tired and thirsty after running (therefore, needing less of an anabolic spike). As a result, your body will become better at regulation/production of both catabolic and anabolic hormones. Less extremes at both ends. You don't want the extremes, you want efficiency.

[The_CEO]

drinking routinely like that is maybe at odds with your running goals.
alcohol induces your body to produce acetate which wastes muscle.
drinking also lowers your heat tolerance for a substantial period of time (for next day runs).

on the other hand, a beer replenishes vitamin b which is good after a really long run

[gringoed]

try smoking weed instead. much healthier than alcohol, IMO.

if you're worried about your lungs, make brownies.

[Chaz]

Jim,
I am similar to you regarding the amount of miles run per week, and also the amount of alcohol consumption per week. I take my running/cycling (and drinking) seriously! From personal experience I can say that the alcohol consumption does not affect aerobic capacity; i.e., it will not decrease the body's ability to transport oxygen to the muscles. It doesn't make you a slower runner or anything, but... the old-school advice about 3500 calories consumed/expended being equivalent to one pound of body fat gained/lost is absolutely accurate. And those beers have calories, of course. Coincidentally, in your case, running 32 miles per week means burning about 3500 calories (which would translate into one pound of fat lost). This is also about the number of calories being consumed from those beers (about 3500). So the weight loss effect from the running is negated by the beers, assuming the food intake stays constant. So if you are looking to lose weight, increase your running mileage and/or drink and eat fewer calories.

[Chaz]

I looked at the original post, and would say that you might actually be running up a caloric SURPLUS per week, even with running 32 mi./wk. I say this because of the 2 six-packs on the weekend, in addition to the weekdays brews. (about 24 beers per week). So you might have an energy imbalance of +1200 calories per week, which would translate into a weight gain of about one-third of one pound per week. Now that is slightly unusual, as most people who run 32 miles per week would have a caloric deficit, or at least maintain equilibrium. So you might have to make some adjustment. I prefer to increase the intensity and duration of workouts, but others might say it is easier to reduce caloric consumption. Or do both.

[gringoed]

I used to be a hydrostatic body fat tester, and I remember this one customer I had where the only change to his lifestyle we made was reducing his beer consumption by about 80%. I don't remember the exact numbers but his body composition change was one of the most dramatic I ever saw.

[Roosh]

I remember reading a study a couple years ago that drinking beer after a run is more hydrating than water.

[Quasi]

I can warmly vote against weed.. its like trying to put out a gasolin fire by switching to petrol. The only thing is that ppl smoking weed are really good at making stories about how safe it is, plus they always seems to have oceans of time doing so, being mostly umemployed, because they need time to relax and be stoned 24/7. Sorry but weed is the biggest "turn into a losers quick drug" in my eyes. Sure its fine with a jay on the festival, surfing or whatever.. but daily abuse will crumble your personality. Compared weed and alcohol isnt easy, but without flaming weed does belong in the narcotics division, whether or not it and heroin should be legal is another issue.
I smoked hash for 7 years everyday and quit 10 years ago... that sure as hell fucked me up more than anything Ive ever done. THC and the brain is really complicated and there is some validity in the toxity argument of the twos compared.. but switching from one drug to another to solve a health (or possible long term addiction) issue is foolish IMO.

THC stays and fucks with your brain for up to two years after you smoke it.. talk about a long hangover!

I vote for caffein if any substitutes should be found, my favorite drug of all times.. which reminds me time to hit the gymn

[Jim Kirk]

Thank you for great information - I had a feeling that my glands and chemicals were being affected because I really need to drink a lot to actually feel the alcohol working - based on what Hydro has stated - the need to drink is caused more by that insulin problem than from getting an alcohol buzz.

I brewed beer from age 18 through to last year - maybe 200 gallons a year. All that stuff is in the attic now. I just don't know what to do to cool off on a regular night. I am having a little vodka now - maybe I'll stick to that. Ugh/.

[gringoed]

(08-24-2010 01:49 AM)Quasi Wrote:  

I can warmly vote against weed.. its like trying to put out a gasolin fire by switching to petrol. The only thing is that ppl smoking weed are really good at making stories about how safe it is, plus they always seems to have oceans of time doing so, being mostly umemployed, because they need time to relax and be stoned 24/7. Sorry but weed is the biggest "turn into a losers quick drug" in my eyes. Sure its fine with a jay on the festival, surfing or whatever.. but daily abuse will crumble your personality. Compared weed and alcohol isnt easy, but without flaming weed does belong in the narcotics division, whether or not it and heroin should be legal is another issue.
I smoked hash for 7 years everyday and quit 10 years ago... that sure as hell fucked me up more than anything Ive ever done. THC and the brain is really complicated and there is some validity in the toxity argument of the twos compared.. but switching from one drug to another to solve a health (or possible long term addiction) issue is foolish IMO.

THC stays and fucks with your brain for up to two years after you smoke it.. talk about a long hangover!

I vote for caffein if any substitutes should be found, my favorite drug of all times.. which reminds me time to hit the gymn

Curious how it has fucked you up.

BTW, everything in moderation.

[Quasi]

Hehe I stoped going to meetings and giving talks long time ago. The subject doesnt interest me that much anymore. I drink on occasion. Everything in moderation is another big lie, how many heroin users junk moderately? Do whatever, be my guest. The one that pays the consequences are you and the ppl that care for you. Im just refering my own life experiences, I hold no grudges against weed smokers or heavy drinkers, they just wont be among ppl I call friends.

[hydrogonian]

(08-23-2010 07:48 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

I remember reading a study a couple years ago that drinking beer after a run is more hydrating than water.

Its funny that you say that, because I think its true for short term hydration. I've done a lot of diet experimentation in my life, inclusive of extended fasting. What I found is that water is only hydrating in the presence of sugar. If you dont have enough sugar in your blood, water can actually have a net dehydration effect. That's my empirical experience, anyway. Weird, I know.

But the alcohol will then dehydrate you. Non-alcoholic beer would likely have the greatest net hydrating effect, or perhaps the least long term (1-3 hours later) dehydrating effect. The glucose doesn't burn as fast as simple sugars in other drinks/food, and therefore there is less longer term dehydration from the glucose. Therefore, the N/A beer hydrates fast, due to the sugar, and there isn't as much dehydration 1-3 hours later.

[iknowexactly]

I'm a licensed clinical psychologist with about 7 years experience. The two sixes on weekends is worrisome, sounds like you're either working, running, exhausted, or drunk all through your week.

Maybe not enough intimacy in your life, real connection? Or are you saying "yes" too much so you're always pissed off inside about it? (" All the BS in NY")

Each "six" is about a whole bottle of wine (my weakness) and whatever you think in terms of being drunk or not, that is affecting your mental functioning a lot.

I see a picture of a guy working hard during the day, getting high in a positive way running, then numbing out -- with only two beers needed only because you're tired.

Then, on the weekends, you need to use a lot more to numb out 'cause you don't have the distraction of work.

I'm guessing something's bothering you. It may or may not be realistic to change it immediately.

For me, it's that I'm temporarily bummed for a couple years 'cause I want to get married but I'd have to be insane to do in the USA.

[Jim Kirk]

@ Iknowexactly - Thanks for the advice - I do drink on the weekends to numb out - but I got to tell you I went almost cold turkey last week and I feel better - day 6 and no alcoholic beverages - I will have some champagne after my third kid is born. My wife is already 2.5 cm dilated so she could go anytime now -

I think my additiction was more the insulin bounce that Hydro was taking about - I run on a bikeway about a 5 minute drive from my house - as I go home I have to fight with myself not to go into a 7/11 and get a can of Fosters - that's how bad I got and still are to a degree -

What's bothering me - the legal market has dried up and its not as easy as it was - add that to the fact that most lawyers have REAL psche problems and your clients are all crazy - you would be surprised how many NYC area lawyers hit the drink HARD - I also just repainted 75% of my house - redid part of the basement and wifey isn't a lot of fun at 9 months pregnant.

Sorry about not being able to marry - the damage that gets done to men with careers and good salaries. The cultural observations on here and on Rossy are spot on - at least you could spot it coming.

[iknowexactly]

(09-08-2010 10:49 PM)Jim Kirk Wrote:  

..... and wifey isn't a lot of fun at 9 months pregnant.
.

New child-- this is a huge amount of stress. It may be helpful or scary to know that most couples having a child report a decline in happiness-- it's a hugely stressful time, and I imagine everyone doting on the wife and kid may sort of make it worse-- " Oh how wonderful.." Shit, they don't have to take care of the kid!

I'm trying to do what's called "normalizing" in the shrink trade-- it can help to know that what's bothering you tends to bother others-- It's not like it's your failing, it's very tough for everyone.

And as far as pregnant women go, of course it's illegal to state they can turn into psycho bi*hes.

A pregnant married co-worker of mine who had specifically talked about how she didn't want to become a crazy pregnant woman before her pregnancy-- recently turned into-- you guessed it-- a crazy pregnant woman!! About 8 1/2 months into her pregnancy she went on an insulting tirade about my character in a way that in her normal state of mind she would never have done.
To maintain my standards I had to permanently cut her off, used to hang out with her at work a lot.

From an evo-psych POV,
I did some thinking -- how could being nasty during pregnancy be a survival characteristic? You would think they would need social support in a pre-industrial era.

The only thing I could think of is it might be a "weeding-out" process to find out which males are reliable sources of support. I definitely got weeded out.

Also about law, I had a childhood friend who become a lawyer, he was connected ( Dad high up in US state dept) but once he got going he stopped practicing and became a business guy. A lot of law can help with starting/partnering with other businesses. For one thing, you don't have to hire lawyers to do all the legal stuff a business needs. There are a lot of unhappy lawyers, especially people with high creativity because you're always looking for precedents. Lawyers have a bad rep as psychotherapy consumers, don't want anyone to tell them anything! hahah.

If you can get hooked up with biz partners with capital you might not need any $ because your time is sort of a capital contribution, but you're your own boss in a way-- your partners are equals not your "boss."

A friend's brother who made a lot of money during the real estate boom wanted to start a business without annoyance started a car wash. You can partner with someone like that.

[rumguzzler]

Not to mention the effect alcohol can have on relationships. I'm not talking abusive drunk, smack the bitch up. Just being drunk and not being able to do the smart thing and let things wait till tomorrow.

[Jim Kirk]

Well I had no alcohol for 15 days - my third child was born this past weekend so I had some single malt - but I must tell you that I lost some of the taste for it already. Busy as hell - ugh.

[Mekhi]

very good information.
I think we should not use any alcohol's thing
because after using these things we don't know
that what we are doing.....so we should always
drink pure water instead of these things.