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Talent Is Overrated ?
#1

Talent Is Overrated ?

Talent Is Overrated What Really Separates World-Class Performers from Everybody Else

I recently read this book and I was very fascinated by it. The book focuses on world class performers and asks the question: “What makes the best in the world the best at what they do"?

Most of us believe achieving the highest levels of performance is a mix of natural talent and hard work. But this belief is wrong. Natural talent when combined with hard work will make you better than the average, but this combination will not put you at the top of your profession.

A good example is a top amateur athlete who faithfully practices for many years with blood, sweat and tears and may be the very best on their team or in their league; however they will never reach the highest peaks of their chosen sport or go on to win an Olympic Gold Medal, regardless of the amount of hard work, practice or time they put in.

On the other hand, we have all witnessed the superstars who rocket to the very top in a very short time, and play as if they were born with some sort of super -human mutant ability. They break every record and win every championship. These are the super elite, those who set the bar high for their fellow competitors. How these superstars accomplish this is what the book examines. Researchers have concluded that an individual’s natural gifts do not a superstar make.



Could it be the willingness to work harder than everybody else? No, it’s not that! Maybe it is just being more mentally tough (an intensified fortitude) than the average competitor? Nope. It’s not that either. Researchers have converged on an answer. It's something they call deliberate practice.


What is deliberate practice?

Deliberate practice is a specific and unique kind of activity, and it’s neither work nor play.
Deliberate practice is designed specifically to improve performance.

The key word is "designed." The essence of deliberate practice is to continually stretch an individual just beyond his or her current abilities. An example is Tiger Woods , who intensely applies this principle (and which is no secret among pro golfers). Tiger has been seen to drop golf balls into a sand trap, step on them, and then practice shots from that near impossible lie. Tiger Woods may face that buried lie in the sand only two or three times in a season, and if those were his only opportunities to work on that shot, he'd blow it just as you and I would.

Deliberate practice must be repeated a lot.

High repetition is the most important difference between deliberate practice of a task and performing the task for real. Two points distinguish deliberate practice from what most of us actually do. One is the choice of a demanding activity just beyond our current abilities. The other is the amount of repetition.

Feedback on results needs to be continuously available.

You may think that your rehearsal of a job interview was flawless, but your opinion isn't what counts. Can you really trust your own judgment? In many important situations, a teacher, coach, or mentor is vital for providing crucial feedback.

Its highly demanding mentally.

Deliberate practice is above all an effort of focus and concentration. That is what makes it "deliberate.” Continually seeking those elements of performance that are unsatisfactory and then trying one's hardest to make them better.

Its hard.

Doing things we know how to do well is enjoyable, and that's exactly the opposite of what deliberate practice demands. Instead of doing what we're good at, we need to seek out what we're not good at. The reality that deliberate practice is hard can even be seen as good news. It means that most people won't do it. So your willingness to do it will distinguish you all the more from the crowd.

Set goals before you start

Self-regulation begins with setting goals. Not big, life-directing goals, but more immediate goals (for example, what you're going to be doing today). From the research:

Poor performers don't set goals; they just slog through their work.
Mediocre performers set goals that are very general and are often focused on simply achieving a good outcome (win the sale; get the new project proposal done.)

Best performers set goals that are not about the outcome, but rather about the process of reaching the outcome.

The best performers are focused on how they could get better at some specific element of their work. With a goal set, the next step is planning how to reach it. Again, the best performers make the most specific, technique-oriented tasks. They're thinking exactly of how to get where they're going. Their plan for achieving it on that day may be to listen for certain key words the customer might use, or to ask specific questions to bring out the customer's crucial issues.

Make self-observations

The most important self-regulatory skill that top performers in every field use during their work is self-observation. The best performers observe themselves closely. They are able to monitor what is happening in their own minds. Researchers call this meta-cognition—knowledge about your own knowledge; thinking about your own thinking. Top performers do this much more than others do as part of their routine. Meta-cognition is important because situations change as they play out. It plays a valuable part in helping top performers adapt to changing conditions. When a client raises a completely unexpected problem in a negotiation, an excellent businessperson can pause mentally and observe his own mental processes as if from outside, and ask:

Have I fully understood what's really behind the objection?
Am I angry?
Am I being hijacked by my emotions?
Do I need a different strategy here?
What should it be?
Evaluate yourself



Practice activities are worthless without useful feedback about the results. These must be self-evaluations; since the practice activities took place in our own minds, only we can know fully what we were attempting or judge how it turned out.

Excellent performers judge themselves differently than most people do. They're specific, just as they are when they set goals and strategies.
Average performers are content to tell themselves that they did great, or poorly, or that they “tried their best”.

In summary, this is an excellent read. This book has changed the way I view top performers and how their skill sets are achieved. The book has also made me ask myself some very tough questions, such as:

Do I push myself outside of my comfort zone on regularly?
Am I good at setting goals and achieving them consistently?
Is my ego ready for an outside perspective and assessment of my skills and coaching?
Do I know my weak points as well as my strengths?
Am I willing to do the work that others won’t to raise the bar?
Am I just like everybody else who came along and tried their best? (I hope not!)


Reading Roosh’s books, following his adventures around the globe has truly inspired me to step my game, get out my comfort zones, make the effort to be a better Man all-round, and most important, I will never travel to Denmark to pick up chicks.
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#2

Talent Is Overrated ?

This is bullshit. You can't just invent a term like "deliberate practice" and then retroactively assign it to the highest performers. It's ridiculous, and carries the assumption that every other person engaged in "regular" practice is somehow not doing it correctly.

Anyone who is engaged at a high level in any activity or endeavor is putting in similar types of practice. There is no type of special, secret practice that high performers have discovered that is responsible for their outsized success. It's simply a combination of intense, dedicated practice with innate talent. It's not as if Michael Jordan and Lebron James had a secret type of practice that sets them apart from all of their peers. They simply had innate talents and/or physical and mental traits that responded extraordinarily well to the type of practice engaged in by all serious basketball players.

I find it really irritating when researchers try to erase the idea of natural talent. It's transparently tied in with this politically correct notion of equality that tells us that every human being is capable of doing anything they put their mind to. It's complete nonsense.

The reality is that anyone is capable of dramatically improving their ability in a given area with dedicated practice, but that genius or virtuoso level performance simply cannot be accounted for by practice alone. If that were the case then such people would appear with much greater frequency than they do now.

I believe that the minor variations in the wiring of the brain between individuals mostly accounts for differences in a person's innate talent in a given skill or field. Someone who is "wired" for a certain activity will find performing it much easier than would a person who does not possess the same wiring. The person with wiring would therefore take pleasure in the activity and be more likely to further increase his proficiency through dedicated practice. Thus an innate disposition toward an activity is increased by a deliberate choice to practice.

The idea that we are all blank slates with identical brains is, quite frankly, preposterous, and goes against all direct observation and common sense. I think the idea of engaging in dedicated practice is good, and will certainly improve a person's performance in any field, I just don't think it in any way remotely begins to explain the existence of extreme high performers, and certainly does nothing to disprove the fact that extreme talent carries a large genetic component.

To believe otherwise is to believe that you could have been Michael Jordan if only you'd taken a few thousand more jump shots in middle school.

[size=8pt]"For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.”[/size] [size=7pt] - Romans 8:18[/size]
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#3

Talent Is Overrated ?

Quote: (06-15-2013 05:53 PM)scorpion Wrote:  

This is bullshit. You can't just invent a term like "deliberate practice" and then retroactively assign it to the highest performers. It's ridiculous, and carries the assumption that every other person engaged in "regular" practice is somehow not doing it correctly.

Anyone who is engaged at a high level in any activity or endeavor is putting in similar types of practice. There is no type of special, secret practice that high performers have discovered that is responsible for their outsized success. It's simply a combination of intense, dedicated practice with innate talent. It's not as if Michael Jordan and Lebron James had a secret type of practice that sets them apart from all of their peers. They simply had innate talents and/or physical and mental traits that responded extraordinarily well to the type of practice engaged in by all serious basketball players.

I find it really irritating when researchers try to erase the idea of natural talent. It's transparently tied in with this politically correct notion of equality that tells us that every human being is capable of doing anything they put their mind to. It's complete nonsense.

The reality is that anyone is capable of dramatically improving their ability in a given area with dedicated practice, but that genius or virtuoso level performance simply cannot be accounted for by practice alone. If that were the case then such people would appear with much greater frequency than they do now.

I believe that the minor variations in the wiring of the brain between individuals mostly accounts for differences in a person's innate talent in a given skill or field. Someone who is "wired" for a certain activity will find performing it much easier than would a person who does not possess the same wiring. The person with wiring would therefore take pleasure in the activity and be more likely to further increase his proficiency through dedicated practice. Thus an innate disposition toward an activity is increased by a deliberate choice to practice.

The idea that we are all blank slates with identical brains is, quite frankly, preposterous, and goes against all direct observation and common sense. I think the idea of engaging in dedicated practice is good, and will certainly improve a person's performance in any field, I just don't think it in any way remotely begins to explain the existence of extreme high performers, and certainly does nothing to disprove the fact that extreme talent carries a large genetic component.

To believe otherwise is to believe that you could have been Michael Jordan if only you'd taken a few thousand more jump shots in middle school.
Anybody can become angry - that is easy, but to be angry with the right person and to the right degree and at the right time and for the right purpose, and in the right way - that is not within everybody's power and is not easy.
Aristotle
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#4

Talent Is Overrated ?

[Image: AintEvenMad.jpg]

[size=8pt]"For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.”[/size] [size=7pt] - Romans 8:18[/size]
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#5

Talent Is Overrated ?




Quote: (06-15-2013 07:24 PM)scorpion Wrote:  

[Image: AintEvenMad.jpg]
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#6

Talent Is Overrated ?

relevent thread: http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-24587.html?
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#7

Talent Is Overrated ?

Eh overall agree.

The big fallacy here is that it takes a smart person to analyze his practicing and skills in general.

Are you able to tell why you're messing up at a certain task, fix it then tweak again over and over?

Then again most people are too insecure to fix their own lives and take responsibility for their actions so that's the other side.

In my experience, most people are lazy as fuck so it's hard to feel bad for people when I know I could fix their life within a 35 minute conversation. Problem is they won't listen anyway.
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#8

Talent Is Overrated ?

Some individuals have a higher ceiling, or greater aptitude for a particular vocation. I hate it when sports talking heads say "nobody works harder than so-and-so, or nobody has a work ethic like so-and-so." It's stupid. MJ or Kobe have great work ethic and are super-talented - they have more to work with than most players. They got the most out of their great ability through hard work. There are less talented players that put in just as much work, but simply don't have the talent those two guys have. Their ceiling is lower. There are also some guys out there that have high ceilings, but don't have the drive to maximize it also. Young children that are great piano players have a particular gift, and their parents getting them a great teacher, and having a piano at home for them to practice whenever they want helps to bring it out. You can't take any kid, sit them at the piano, force them to learn/practice, and get the same result for all of them.

"The best kind of pride is that which compels a man to do his best when no one is watching."
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#9

Talent Is Overrated ?

These dichotomous thinking: talent vs practice......money vs bitches.....looks vs game..etc. it is getting old.

i will say this much: some people, in order to tell themselves that they are not failures in a particular endeavour, will simply rationalize "i dont have the talent for that". It is a feel good hamsterization on their part. It emotionally allow them to cope with the simple fact that they've failed.

There is also the cultural context:

Asian cultures tend to believe that all you need is effort and good techniques. e.g. Korean High Schools or the relentless tiger mom religiously soldiering her children through recitals.

While american culture tends to over emphasis innate talent over effort. e.g. the story of the prodigy that blazed through school with top scores while getting high on weed

If you do something really well, an american will say "you are talented". I notice that americans are fond of throwing that expression, "s/he is talented", around a lot. Asian cultures, on the other hand, believes that you worked your arse off. You see this in their asian fables and stories of how a person triumph through dint of hardwork.

Personally, i like the mentality of asian culture(hardwork over talent) more..while cognizant of the fact that we are decidedly not blank states.

I think it boils down to your life experiences and cultures. what you are trying to justify and rationalize to yourself. What you intend to psychologically use this belief system for.

Personally, i solidly believe that i can achieve whatever i put my mind to. It just a matter of opportunity costs.
what is hardest vs what is easiest....what i truly want vs what i truly need. This worldview helps me in pushing through obstacles and roadblocks(which invariably arise in the pursuits of our goals.).

This is my own hamster.
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#10

Talent Is Overrated ?

The first question to ask is: why does the title/thesis of the book need to be true? What is the agenda being advanced by this hypothesis? In fact, you can write a book arguing that any number of things are "overrated." Money, cars, good food, good clothes, banging lots of girls, etc.

Some people are scared that such a thing as talent exists. It means that to a certain extent your future is determined; that if you lack a certain knack, you will never be the best at something. Maybe this is a strain of Americanism: the notion that the future is always open and boundless, and if you work hard, anything is achievable. This is part and parcel of the American Dream. However, the future is not open and boundless. You can achieve great things, but not everything.
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#11

Talent Is Overrated ?

Eh at the end of the day. You have two choices work hard or don't.

You can't control your talent level, so what's the point in discussing it? You will just create a limiting belief system. In that aspect yes it is over rated.

I can't make you more talented, but I can give you the best opportunities to succeed. So just find the best avenues and work your ass off that's the only solution.

If people want to peg people who succeed as inately talented, who cares, again it can't be controlled so why waste my time worrying about it or even discussing it.

Can it be controlled? If not don't think about it and focus on what you can control.
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