[Amir]

http://www.collegecandy.com/sex/12965

Nice to see a girl actually ADMIT these things. Much respect for her for not hiding what she really thinks. And really, "nice guys" only have themselves to blame because, as said in this article, they all. [act]. the. same. Why should a girl go out with someone who treats the same as every other guy she meets?

[Joe]

(10-09-2008 04:05 PM)Amir Wrote:  

http://www.collegecandy.com/sex/12965

Nice to see a girl actually ADMIT these things. Much respect for her for not hiding what she really thinks. And really, "nice guys" only have themselves to blame because, as said in this article, they all. [act]. the. same. Why should a girl go out with someone who treats the same as every other guy she meets?

But the key is to walk that fine line...and I don't know what it is.

Any guy can treat a girl like shit...it's the PUSH/PULL thing that is often forgotten when Asshole game is described. I witnessed it last week and couldn't quite put my finger on it. It isn't outright being an asshole like, "hey bitch get me a beer and suck me off" but it borders close to that while still having a PULL effect. Not quite sure

[Basil Ransom]

Quote:

It isn't outright being an asshole like, "hey bitch get me a beer and suck me off" but it borders close to that while still having a PULL effect.

It is that, leavened with humor.

Quote:

Chivalry kinda sorta scares Girl.

I fall prey to this one sorta - I tell girls to hang out with me, after meeting at a party say, and it becomes like a big deal to them when really, truth is, there's no easier way to f*** you than going on a date with you that ends in my bedroom.

And I've met girls who are a little weirded out by the small chivalrous stuff, like holding the door for her.

**I like ordering for girls, it's chivalrous and gives you that "I don't let my bitch talk to other men" feeling.

[Trotter]

Cocky and funny pretty much says it all.

[MacNcheez]

(10-10-2008 04:51 PM)Joe Wrote:  

(10-09-2008 04:05 PM)Amir Wrote:  

http://www.collegecandy.com/sex/12965

Nice to see a girl actually ADMIT these things. Much respect for her for not hiding what she really thinks. And really, "nice guys" only have themselves to blame because, as said in this article, they all. [act]. the. same. Why should a girl go out with someone who treats the same as every other guy she meets?

But the key is to walk that fine line...and I don't know what it is.

Any guy can treat a girl like shit...it's the PUSH/PULL thing that is often forgotten when Asshole game is described. I witnessed it last week and couldn't quite put my finger on it. It isn't outright being an asshole like, "hey bitch get me a beer and suck me off" but it borders close to that while still having a PULL effect. Not quite sure

The problem is that you're not connecting with her emotionally enough to be able to read her emotions. That's something you can work on. Push/pull is about playful teasing. When she's in a good mood you tease her negatively. When she's in a bad mood you tease her positively. It's your ability to control her emotions that she finds attractive and turns her on. They love the emotional rollercoaster and the attention. If you can get her to blush and laugh you're golden and should go for the kiss. Blushing is a female's version of getting a hard-on.

[Caligula]

Quote:

When our friends start to point out several signs of their douchebaggery, we have a “talk” with A**hole and he convinces us that our friends are batsh*t crazy and watch too much Sex & the City and that we have nothing to worry about.

Haha. Good response.

[blurb]

I like this comment by Yogusto:

Quote:

I am a nice guy and yes women are assholes. They go for the jerks and leave us nice guys holding our puds. Why do you think older rich guys date little hotties 20 years their junior? You made them sit out their sexual prime, so now that they're rich and more powerful, they are going to make you sit out yours.

I bagged a really hot chick once by being a complete jerk to her. Walked right up to her in a bar after watching her interact with everyone else and told her "you are such a bitch there's no way anyone would want to even try to pick you up." As I walked out the door she came running after me. She grabbed my arm and said "YOU are coming home with ME." We then proceeded to go to her apartment, watch pornos she had (!!) and bornk for the next 1/2 day. I had such bad rugburns on both my knees and elbows but damn it was worth it. And she was HOT, much hotter than anyone I would normally want to approach.

Yea, I'm 6'5", told I'm good looking, trim and fit (not fat), but I never believe it really, and I aim too low. And of course, the hot chicks don't even bother with me, they can see through my self-esteem issues... until I treat them like SHYTE. Then they love it! WTFO!

[TheWolfHowls]

I think the key is to be a guy who doesn't take their shit. I think a guy can be easy going, fun loving and have a good time BUT if a girl tries to act bitchy or try to have him do stuff, he doesn't play that.

Girls call any type of guy who has backbone and won't buy into her frame an asshole lol. Some guys read the article she mentions and they just become full out dicks and don't get the pussy either.

[Caligula]

(08-04-2011 12:40 AM)TheWolfHowls Wrote:  

I think the key is to be a guy who doesn't take their shit. I think a guy can be easy going, fun loving and have a good time BUT if a girl tries to act bitchy or try to have him do stuff, he doesn't play that.

Girls call any type of guy who has backbone and won't buy into her frame an asshole lol. Some guys read the article she mentions and they just become full out dicks and don't get the pussy either.

Agreed. A lot of noobs to the game think it's all about being an asshole. I've seen a few new players in action with serious calibration and congruence issues when going all out asshole. Sometimes it works. It's usually better than what they were doing before. So they keep doing it. But it also holds them back and they can't relax around women.

You can tease, make her feel good, stand firm and not take any shit without being an asshole. She might call you an asshole for it, but that's just because you're defying her expectations and she'll love you for doing so. There's a lot of middle ground between being a pushover and an asshole. It comes down to what style suits you best.

I use direct asshole moves very sparsely, though the occasional one never hurts.

[Gmac]

So true. When I met my date last night she came in flipflops because it was raining hard. I looked down at them but before I had a chance to comment she immediately explained. I said, "yeah I wasn't going to say anything" and she called me an asshole. Pretty good start 30 seconds into a date, which ended with me making out with her at a bar and again back at her apartment. I didn't even have to tease her hardly at all the rest of the night after that.

She did switch into heels once we got to the bar, so she earned some points back. It came back into the conversation later when I was ragging on DC girls (she's from New Orleans). 2nd date = bang fo sho

[Basil Ransom]

(08-04-2011 11:59 AM)Caligula Wrote:  

(08-04-2011 12:40 AM)TheWolfHowls Wrote:  

I think the key is to be a guy who doesn't take their shit. I think a guy can be easy going, fun loving and have a good time BUT if a girl tries to act bitchy or try to have him do stuff, he doesn't play that.

Girls call any type of guy who has backbone and won't buy into her frame an asshole lol. Some guys read the article she mentions and they just become full out dicks and don't get the pussy either.

Agreed. A lot of noobs to the game think it's all about being an asshole. I've seen a few new players in action with serious calibration and congruence issues when going all out asshole. Sometimes it works. It's usually better than what they were doing before. So they keep doing it. But it also holds them back and they can't relax around women.

You can tease, make her feel good, stand firm and not take any shit without being an asshole. She might call you an asshole for it, but that's just because you're defying her expectations and she'll love you for doing so. There's a lot of middle ground between being a pushover and an asshole. It comes down to what style suits you best.

I use direct asshole moves very sparsely, though the occasional one never hurts.

(08-04-2011 12:14 PM)Gmac Wrote:  

So true. When I met my date last night she came in flipflops because it was raining hard. I looked down at them but before I had a chance to comment she immediately explained. I said, "yeah I wasn't going to say anything" and she called me an asshole. Pretty good start 30 seconds into a date, which ended with me making out with her at a bar and again back at her apartment. I didn't even have to tease her hardly at all the rest of the night after that.

She did switch into heels once we got to the bar, so she earned some points back. It came back into the conversation later when I was ragging on DC girls (she's from New Orleans). 2nd date = bang fo sho

The "Asshole" label is tossed around a little too much. There's everything from standing your ground and teasing to outright abuse. The first works on almost any cute girl, while the second doesn't. Thus the confusion and misinformation, that "girls like confident men, not assholes."

But there are still plenty of girls who are aroused by disrespect. It can take the form of say, exploitation, malice, humiliation, neglect, disregard, disrespect or rudeness. For a girl who runs with high value guys who routinely treat her like shit, a guy who doesn't disrespect her will seem like a doormat, all else equal. For a girl who doesn't, more than a modicum of disrespect may jar and offend.

There definitely are girls who are aroused by genuinely dickish behavior, and not just a little cocky banter. Dominance can shade towards abuse. The mix along that spectrum most optimal for seduction varies from one girl to the next.

Edit: I'd put this chick in the "digs abuse" category.

[Vicious]

Interesting to see how she's getting totally slammed in the comments section.

[Nonpareil]

I like it when a girl says she'll string 'nice guys' along while fucking asshole badboys, instead of saying she likes 'nice guys' but then going to fuck asshole badboys.

Really, 'nice guys' aren't that nice; they're just acting 'nice' to try to get pussy. At least the badboy is honest with himself and the chicks he deals with.

[Caligula]

(08-04-2011 02:02 PM)Nonpareil Wrote:  

Really, 'nice guys' aren't that nice; they're just acting 'nice' to try to get pussy. At least the badboy is honest with himself and the chicks he deals with.

^^^ Ding ding ding!

[Giovonny]

I like the "Daddy Rule of Thumb",

If she respects and admires her father - I treat her better.

If she doesn't know her father or doesn't respect him - I treat her worse.

You gotta know who your dealing with.

[Basil Ransom]

(08-04-2011 02:35 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

I like the "Daddy Rule of Thumb",

If she respects and admires her father - I treat her better.

If she doesn't know her father or doesn't respect him - I treat her worse.

You gotta know who your dealing with.

[TheWolfHowls]

(08-04-2011 11:59 AM)Caligula Wrote:  

Agreed. A lot of noobs to the game think it's all about being an asshole. I've seen a few new players in action with serious calibration and congruence issues when going all out asshole. Sometimes it works. It's usually better than what they were doing before. So they keep doing it. But it also holds them back and they can't relax around women.

Yea, i think that's also the problem...that they feel they HAVE to do it and can't relax.

Quote:

You can tease, make her feel good, stand firm and not take any shit without being an asshole. She might call you an asshole for it, but that's just because you're defying her expectations and she'll love you for doing so.

Very true, hell one time a group of girls gave me the motion of taking a picture as if I "Had" to. I told them to ask me first. They then asked. THe one who motioned, i go up to since i found her sexy. She's like "Who is this guy?" In a stuck up tone. I told her with a look of intent and no games, my name and I wanted hers. She tries to say in a stuck up tone "I"m Mrs. Morales!" I then tell her, "I don't care about your last name...what's your first name?" She doesn't tell me. I then tell her, "I'm disappointed, you have to be more fun than this..." She tells me she isn't. I then tell her "Oh...." and then I walk away mid-sentance.

Then like 15 minutes later i see the group walking by as i'm sitting down by myself, the other sexy girl gave me a "Sexual" look while the one whom i approached, yelled "asshole" as she walked past without trying to look at me LOL.

Another time, i accidentally stepped on this very cute girl in a green dress's foot at this college bar. I said sorry but she made a big commotion out of it even after that. I tell her, "I said all i needed to say" Throughout the night, as i'm going up to other girls....she looks over and shakes her head to try to cue them that im bad news LOL. The girl i'm gaming find it funny even asking if its someone i know. I tell them, "No clue" lol.

Then for the life of me, i go up to to that same green dress girl later in the night considering she was actually my type lookswise ....she asks me if i'm being sarcastic or not as i'm talking to her, i tell her "No", i smile at her, she smiles i pull her to the dance floor eventho she resists a little and we're having fun even mentionin thing that she finds me handsome. Nothing happened with her. But we did embrace close. I'm like "Funny as shit story"

But this gave me an interesting perspective. I think at times when a man and a woman seem to be at "odds", builds sexual tension. Course not on purpose, but it does happen.

Quote:

There's a lot of middle ground between a pushover and an asshole. It comes down to what style suits you best.

Exactly. i think if ur fairly dominant, its almost impossible for a woman to find you a pushover.

Quote:


I use direct asshole moves very sparsely, though the occasional one never hurts.

If its a particular woman, absolutely.

[Caligula]

(08-04-2011 12:45 PM)basilransom Wrote:  

The "Asshole" label is tossed around a little too much. There's everything from standing your ground and teasing to outright abuse. The first works on almost any cute girl, while the second doesn't. Thus the confusion and misinformation, that "girls like confident men, not assholes."

But there are still plenty of girls who are aroused by disrespect. It can take the form of say, exploitation, malice, humiliation, neglect, disregard, disrespect or rudeness. For a girl who runs with high value guys who routinely treat her like shit, a guy who doesn't disrespect her will seem like a doormat, all else equal. For a girl who doesn't, more than a modicum of disrespect may jar and offend.

There definitely are girls who are aroused by genuinely dickish behavior, and not just a little cocky banter. Dominance can shade towards abuse. The mix along that spectrum most optimal for seduction varies from one girl to the next.

Edit: I'd put this chick in the "digs abuse" category.

Yeah we need a clearer typology of assholery, since it means very different things to different people.

[arkanBrah]

(08-04-2011 12:40 AM)TheWolfHowls Wrote:  

I think the key is to be a guy who doesn't take their shit. I think a guy can be easy going, fun loving and have a good time BUT if a girl tries to act bitchy or try to have him do stuff, he doesn't play that.

Girls call any type of guy who has backbone and won't buy into her frame an asshole lol. Some guys read the article she mentions and they just become full out dicks and don't get the pussy either.

Simply put and well said.

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

That "nice guys are not actually nice but are just doing it to get pussy" (which fails) is one of the most common rationalizations girls provide for liking assholes. Sure, some nice guys are. But most just do not have an agenda - being nice is natural to them, how they were raised and educated, and they have an understanding of the world that expects most people (women too) will be nice to them in return if they are nice first. Sadly, it doesn't work out that way.

However, I still don't like presenting them as some kind of manipulators. They are just lost in a modern world, and 50 years ago all of them would have made a great catch. I think they're victims of the system.

[Excelsior]

I'm with eel on this one. As a former "nice guy" (I'm sure I'm not the only one here), I feel well positioned to speak on this.

The biggest issue with "nice guys" is not their devious, malicious nature. The majority of them really and truly don't know any better, having either been raised quite traditionally and/or having gained no real extensive experience with women. Their goal is ultimately to enter a relationship with the girl at some point, but most of them are not mere pump and dumpers. They actually do value the girl beyond her ability to provide sex, which is a big part of their problem-they can't build sexual attraction.

They have a tendency to put women up on very high pedestals from the get-go, and, though their intentions may not be malicious (many genuinely believe the women belong up there even when they haven't earned it), these actions prevent them from treating women like people (ordinary, flawed, sexual, just like them), which is required to build any real attraction.

The biggest problem nice guys really have is their general ignorance and lack of self esteem. Ignorance is manifested in the way they treat women, which is incongruent with the nature of the current sexual marketplace. Their chivalrous, gentlemanly behavior may have been ideal in 1950, but women today will simply eat them alive.

Their lack of self-esteem is manifested in their inability/unwillingness to be direct with women about their sexual desires. They honestly believe the only way to a woman's heart is to be as supportive and kind as possible, as though any admittance of their (obvious) sexual attraction to the girl would somehow offend her and turn her off. They just don't have the confidence (or, as mentioned earlier, the experience/knowledge) to escape this mindset and embrace their own sexual desires, and without this ability they cannot turn a woman on the way more direct/experienced guys (who many will label "assholes") can. Naturally, women aren't attracted to this. The nice guy is too consistently afraid about how he and his actions will look to her and others. He can't just "do it".

To summarize all this, the main issue with the nice guy is his pedestalization. This pedestalization:

-Scares young women (they're held up to some level of morality/responsibility they aren't and shouldn't be prepared for, but that his mindset/conduct forces upon them) and is often manifested in the way "nice guys" get committed too fast and too soon.
-Limits sexual attraction (the guy has her on a pedestal, where he is unable to view her as the sexual being she is), causing him to wait too long to make the move she knows he wants to make. This shows a lack of confidence.
-Limits spontaneity (as the girl in the article said, nice guys are very predictable, and this isn't an accident-they feel that any deviation from this course could offend her, and while she's on their pedestal the LAST thing he wants to do is risk losing her. He is too inexperienced/ignorant to know that he's pushing her away by doing this). We all know that girls need some spontaneity and excitement-boring men repulse them.
-Makes the man too available-women prefer what they can't easily have.

Hence, you have a recipe for failure.

[VeryNewtotheGame]

(10-09-2008 04:05 PM)Amir Wrote:  

Nice to see a girl actually ADMIT these things. Much respect for her for not hiding what she really thinks. And really, "nice guys" only have themselves to blame because, as said in this article, they all. [act]. the. same. Why should a girl go out with someone who treats the same as every other guy she meets?

Wow. I've been labeled as the "nice guy" all this time- without ever thinking of it in a malignant manner. Got to make some changes ASAP!

[Urban Renaissance Man]

(08-08-2011 05:32 AM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

I'm with eel on this one. As a former "nice guy" (I'm sure I'm not the only one here), I feel well positioned to speak on this.

The biggest issue with "nice guys" is not their devious, malicious nature. The majority of them really and truly don't know any better, having either been raised quite traditionally and/or having gained no real extensive experience with women. Their goal is ultimately to enter a relationship with the girl at some point, but most of them are not mere pump and dumpers. They actually do value the girl beyond her ability to provide sex, which is a big part of their problem-they can't build sexual attraction.

They have a tendency to put women up on very high pedestals from the get-go, and, though their intentions may not be malicious (many genuinely believe the women belong up there even when they haven't earned it), these actions prevent them from treating women like people (ordinary, flawed, sexual, just like them), which is required to build any real attraction.

The biggest problem nice guys really have is their general ignorance and lack of self esteem. Ignorance is manifested in the way they treat women, which is incongruent with the nature of the current sexual marketplace. Their chivalrous, gentlemanly behavior may have been ideal in 1950, but women today will simply eat them alive.

Their lack of self-esteem is manifested in their inability/unwillingness to be direct with women about their sexual desires. They honestly believe the only way to a woman's heart is to be as supportive and kind as possible, as though any admittance of their (obvious) sexual attraction to the girl would somehow offend her and turn her off. They just don't have the confidence (or, as mentioned earlier, the experience/knowledge) to escape this mindset and embrace their own sexual desires, and without this ability they cannot turn a woman on the way more direct/experienced guys (who many will label "assholes") can. Naturally, women aren't attracted to this. The nice guy is too consistently afraid about how he and his actions will look to her and others. He can't just "do it".

To summarize all this, the main issue with the nice guy is his pedestalization. This pedestalization:

-Scares young women (they're held up to some level of morality/responsibility they aren't and shouldn't be prepared for, but that his mindset/conduct forces upon them) and is often manifested in the way "nice guys" get committed too fast and too soon.
-Limits sexual attraction (the guy has her on a pedestal, where he is unable to view her as the sexual being she is), causing him to wait too long to make the move she knows he wants to make. This shows a lack of confidence.
-Limits spontaneity (as the girl in the article said, nice guys are very predictable, and this isn't an accident-they feel that any deviation from this course could offend her, and while she's on their pedestal the LAST thing he wants to do is risk losing her. He is too inexperienced/ignorant to know that he's pushing her away by doing this). We all know that girls need some spontaneity and excitement-boring men repulse them.
-Makes the man too available-women prefer what they can't easily have.

Hence, you have a recipe for failure.

You're right in all of this, but I think there's 1 more element that men don't consider when they're pedestalizing women... MANY WOMEN DON'T NECESSARILY LIKE THEMSELVES! So many women that are 8and 9's don't really thinkof themselves as such, so they can't figure out what the fuss is about. I would dare so most women have low self-esteem, so there's a feeling inside them that says, "What's wrong with this guy that he likes me so much? Can't he see I'm worthless? He must be an even bigger loser than I am!" I'm not saying all women feel this way, or even most, but enough to where this phenomon should be considered. We can blame seldom considered but off the chart child molestation rates for this! Show me a slut or a girl who loses respect for you because you took her to a nice restaurant and pulled her chair out on a first date, and I'll show you a victim of child abuse 80% if the time!

[Wizard]

(08-08-2011 05:32 AM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

I'm with eel on this one. As a former "nice guy" (I'm sure I'm not the only one here), I feel well positioned to speak on this.

The biggest issue with "nice guys" is not their devious, malicious nature. The majority of them really and truly don't know any better, having either been raised quite traditionally and/or having gained no real extensive experience with women. Their goal is ultimately to enter a relationship with the girl at some point, but most of them are not mere pump and dumpers. They actually do value the girl beyond her ability to provide sex, which is a big part of their problem-they can't build sexual attraction.

They have a tendency to put women up on very high pedestals from the get-go, and, though their intentions may not be malicious (many genuinely believe the women belong up there even when they haven't earned it), these actions prevent them from treating women like people (ordinary, flawed, sexual, just like them), which is required to build any real attraction.

The biggest problem nice guys really have is their general ignorance and lack of self esteem. Ignorance is manifested in the way they treat women, which is incongruent with the nature of the current sexual marketplace. Their chivalrous, gentlemanly behavior may have been ideal in 1950, but women today will simply eat them alive.

Their lack of self-esteem is manifested in their inability/unwillingness to be direct with women about their sexual desires. They honestly believe the only way to a woman's heart is to be as supportive and kind as possible, as though any admittance of their (obvious) sexual attraction to the girl would somehow offend her and turn her off. They just don't have the confidence (or, as mentioned earlier, the experience/knowledge) to escape this mindset and embrace their own sexual desires, and without this ability they cannot turn a woman on the way more direct/experienced guys (who many will label "assholes") can. Naturally, women aren't attracted to this. The nice guy is too consistently afraid about how he and his actions will look to her and others. He can't just "do it".

To summarize all this, the main issue with the nice guy is his pedestalization. This pedestalization:

-Scares young women (they're held up to some level of morality/responsibility they aren't and shouldn't be prepared for, but that his mindset/conduct forces upon them) and is often manifested in the way "nice guys" get committed too fast and too soon.
-Limits sexual attraction (the guy has her on a pedestal, where he is unable to view her as the sexual being she is), causing him to wait too long to make the move she knows he wants to make. This shows a lack of confidence.
-Limits spontaneity (as the girl in the article said, nice guys are very predictable, and this isn't an accident-they feel that any deviation from this course could offend her, and while she's on their pedestal the LAST thing he wants to do is risk losing her. He is too inexperienced/ignorant to know that he's pushing her away by doing this). We all know that girls need some spontaneity and excitement-boring men repulse them.
-Makes the man too available-women prefer what they can't easily have.

Hence, you have a recipe for failure.

Excellent points, and this pedestalization concept is pushed by culture in general. I mean how many movies do we see the nice guy drool over his ideal girl, and then watch as she messes around with the asshole guy before "magically" discovering what an asshole he is, and suddenly finding value in the nice guy.

Then guys are shocked, and shaken when real life doesn't happen like this.

[Basil Ransom]

(08-04-2011 02:02 PM)Nonpareil Wrote:  

Really, 'nice guys' aren't that nice; they're just acting 'nice' to try to get pussy. At least the badboy is honest with himself and the chicks he deals with.

(08-08-2011 04:51 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

That "nice guys are not actually nice but are just doing it to get pussy" (which fails) is one of the most common rationalizations girls provide for liking assholes. Sure, some nice guys are. But most just do not have an agenda - being nice is natural to them, how they were raised and educated, and they have an understanding of the world that expects most people (women too) will be nice to them in return if they are nice first. Sadly, it doesn't work out that way.

However, I still don't like presenting them as some kind of manipulators. They are just lost in a modern world, and 50 years ago all of them would have made a great catch. I think they're victims of the system.

These posts are in total disagreement with one another. And Nonpareil's is wrong. Nice guys aren't cynical manipulators deep down. Yes, they think being nice is just the right, respectful way to do it. They've been nice all their life, it's who they are. Some lack self-esteem and the confidence to be overtly sexual. Or they believe 'that's no way to treat a woman.'

The biggest flaw with the nice guy is that he looks to the woman as his redemption from celibacy and loneliness, as his source of excitement and joy. This is too great a burden for any woman. The jerk is content to amuse himself, at the woman's expense if need be. The difference is evident in their body language: the chump listens attentively to her every word, while the jerk stares off listlessly, yet commands her gaze when he speaks. The chump wants an equal partner, the jerk a groupie.

We are the cynical manipulators. We are the ones scrutinizing our every move to obtain a successful seduction. And I don't have a problem with that. But we are in it only for ourselves. And this is why sluts respect us. It is as if, deep down they know they are worthless, so any man who respects them is a desperate sap.

Eel identifies Nonpareil's idea as a weak rationalization, and that's exactly what it is. There's no need to rationalize the choices of women. They're flawed, and players profit. Do players hurt women? More than nice guys? Almost assuredly, because women let them.

Putting others before yourself can be laudable, but it's anathema to seducing women. Women respect are aroused by a man who only respects himself.

In response to Athlone, attractive women are so averse to respect from a man that I would define pedestalization, in real terms, as:

Pedestalize: To suggest that one wants more than just sex.

To avoid putting her on the pedestal: You must show you are ready to walk at a moment's notice; you must not care if she disappears entirely from your life.