[ulysses28]

Gentlemen of the Crimson Arts, I need some advice on how or if to proceed.

Went on a date with a 22 year old 8.5. 5'7, slim, long blonde hair, full lips, C cups, just graduated from a local college, and is living at home with mom. The texts prior to the date were dry. I was convinced she wasn't that interested, but she always responded. Began to think this was just the way she was.

She was dumb and aloof as shit (found out she has ADD, and it shows), but hot as shit. Immediate shit test: she comes in to the bar talking on the phone and doesn't hang up when we sit down. I immediately go to the bathroom to preserve value and come back and luckily she's off the phone. Exceedingly difficult to talk to, it's like she's 15. after 1.75 hours and 2 beers, we bounced. Enough IOIs that I kissed her and we continued to make out on the street. Brought her back to my place to party with roommates, despite the fact that she claimed she had to get up early for a family gathering. She got shy and reserved and sucked. I had to sit by her while all my friends were having fun. I probably came off slightly beta by babysitting. She was ruining my night, so I drove her home. Kissed more in the car, but she seemed more reserved on the way home.

Texted her 48 hours later: was the family gathering as fun as you envisioned?
her: it was ok. i only watched on race though. [gathering was at a race track]
me: haha. wtf did you do the whole time then?
her: i chased around a 5 year old and drank
me: lol. what's your week looking like, we need to have our second date.
her: it's shark week this week.
me: i live every week like it's shark week.

No response. Her texts were always that dry and short, before and after we had the date. She will not text again, it's not her style. What should I do? Was that a shit test or a rejection? This was 24 hours ago now.

[charmer]

thats why i hate younger girls lets say around 16 to 20..they are always flake and full of shitty attitude...you know why?...because they dont know how to flirt.

being cocky with cold attitude girls is a backfire...just dont give a damn..find someone good.

[Lumiere]

Why are you chasing a girl that is that annoying and ruined your night?

Tell her to cut out the ADD shit and learn how to flirt.

Tell her what behaviour is acceptable

Quit being one of her lapdogs. She probably already has plenty of them and that's not interesting or challenging to any girl let alone one with ADD.

In short, stop acting like a bitch and grow a pair.

[ulysses28]

Cutting and running is always an option. I agree that it may be the optimal option for this girl if there are no other viable strategies. However, I'm interested in ways to overcome obstacles, not just giving up at any obstacle that presents itself. I'm juggling 3 other girls as well, so I'm not just focusing on her by any means.

I highly doubt that "telling her to cut out the ADD shit", etc. would result in me fucking her, which is the goal. If that's the consensus of advice though, I'll give it a shot. Other ideas are welcome.

Funny thing is that she unwittingly provided me with awesome proof at the party we were at with my roommates, because when I went back to the party after dropping her off I ended up hooking up with a 20 year old who saw me with her earlier...

[Lumiere]

Phrase it how you want. You could say "You know when were we out last time and you did (whatever it was). I am not down with that. That kind of stuff doesn't work with me.

Thing is to draw the line, show you have standards and balls.

[Kona]

Not everything is a shit test brah.

This girl is only 22. They act nervous and giggly and attention deficit when they're into you.

You had her getting hot in the street, and she was willing to go to your place because she wanted you to swoop her. There were a bunch of strangers there so naturally she got nervous. You should have put that to work for you but you. I'd imagine you have your own bedroom in this apartment? Why couldn't you have gone in there?

Then you waited 48 hours and she cooled. You still had it going right up to the point you turned Shark Week into a joke. Some people, myself included, really like sharks, and it sounds like she does too. You had a solid 8.5 into sharks and you insulted her. No wonder she didn't text back.

Luckily for all of us, Shark Week isn't over! Here's what you do:

Call her tomorrow and schedule a get together centering around Shark Week. You already have a semi-comfort level built up with your apartment so she'll probably come back. If the comfort level was blown, go to a bar but get there before her, and ask them to turn Shark Week on. Brush up on your shark knowledge. Dazzle her with some shark stories. Tell her you know the guys that own North Shore Shark Adventures on Oahu's North Shore. I don't know much about women, but a sure fire way to have sex with them is to take them cage diving and remain totally calm and hold on to her and make her feel safe. Since you can't take her diving, talk about it and really sell it. Use words like "exhilarating."

Here's the Shark Week schedule: http://dsc.discovery.com/tv/shark-week/

Aloha!

[ulysses28]

@ Lumiere: You're right, that's an excellent point. I do need to do that, and will. But I think that's best done while on the second date rather than just calling her up and saying it or texting.

So the first issue to deal with now is how do I re-establish contact and get her on another date without coming off beta, since I texted her last, and I guarantee she won't text me back, even if I was to maintain radio silence for 2 weeks.

I was thinking of trying Roissy's non-sequitur text game: http://roissy.wordpress.com/2010/07/30/n...itur-game/

@ Kona: yeah, it's quite possible she just really is into sharks. What you suggest is a really good strategy if she is.

[Mrs. Chocolate]

All this hard work because she is beautiful. I get tired just for reading.

[speakeasy]

(08-03-2010 02:19 PM)Mrs. Chocolate Wrote:  

All this hard work because she is beautiful. I get tired just for reading.

Lol

[collegekid]

If she's just out of college and cares about shark week, ask her if she wants to come over, smoke weed, and watch shark week. You show a common interest and get her intoxicated in your apartment.

[K-man]

First, what the hell is shark week? From glancing at some of the earlier comments, something on discovery channel? I recognize some people may like sharks, but not going out all week to stay home and watch TV because they have a week dedicated to something? This has got to be just an excuse.

Second, I think her cooling off may have been because of what you had to offer her. Now, I don't know much about where you live and what kind of entertainment there is in your area, but generally young hot girls (and she sounded like a 9.5 not 8.5 from the description you gave) like to have the best their city has to offer, and where I live this means nice clubs, late-night partying, fast cars and well-dressed guys. So taking her to a party with your 22-yo roommates, frat-style, may not have been what she is looking for. But let me note again that I don't know you and your roommates and the type of fun that people usually have in your part of the world, so I may be wrong.

[hydrogonian]

Kona and Lumiere hit it on the head.

But the situation begs the question, why do you want to pursue her? If its just to get laid, go for it. If for anything else, your chasing low quality, imo (dumb, aloof, cant hold a conversation). Too much trouble for the fleeting reward; unless she was a one shot, one kill, one night stand.

Sounds like she would have been fairly easy though if your roommates hadn't been there. Should have played that different. Bringing a girl back to your place, for the first time, with roommates there is always a recipe for disaster. It will set you back big time with most women. I remember another guy on this board recently made that mistake as well.

I say that the text is a rejection of your game thusfar, although it can probably be salvaged.

If she's overly aloof, she want s to be called out on it. You have to be cool and probably funny when you do it though. And do it in person. Its just typical uninteresting hot girl game. Pretty much the only game that they usually have. Its their only defense. Usually, thats all it takes is breaking through the ice wall once.

You have to break through the wall of silence with some short texts. Don't ask for a response and don't care. With this type of girl, when you require a good, or any, response you wont get one. This sounds like the type of girl that you can almost "jedi mind trick" her into a second date. This girl wants to be led. Get out of the habit of asking her questions.

Of course, this is second best to gaming her in person. If that occurs, don't put up with shit, don't care, be direct, and don't fuck up the swooping again.

[ulysses28]

Thanks for the advice gents.

@college kid: she doesn't smoke weed unfortunately. alcohol could work though.

@K-man: I think your suggestion flies in the face of the concept of "game", doesn't it. Isn't the point of game is to display enough alpha-ness to get the girl to fuck through means other than large displays of wealth... works with American girls at least.

@hydrongian: I think it's fair to assume that not only is she running typical hot girl game, as you pointed out, but that she may have multiple guys chasing her at this point as well. Yes, I am pursuing her just for the fuck, or rather the multiple fucks, and I agree that she's not worth it for anything else. If I manage to get her out again, I will definitely heed the advice to call her out on her aloofness, but try to come off doing it with a teasing and cool attitude.

UPDATE:
I re-engaged by text message today about 72 hours after our last exchange. I recalled that she was a real nerd about star wars, which is weird for an attractive girl, so i thought that was a good way to re-engage. The texts went thusly:

me:"pop quiz: who did han solo win the millenium falcon from?"
30 minutes later, her:"lando"
3 hours later, me: Your nerdiness never ceases to amaze me. what planet did the ewoks live on. answer than and you win a second date with me.
30mn later, her:"the ewoks live on endor"
3 hours later, me: damn. i dare you to try and stump me. even though you're good, I'm better. you a [restaurant title] fan?

no response yet. 1.25 hours ago.

I'll let you know what happens...

[charmer]

leave this girl now,you wont get a second date.

[Mrs. Chocolate]

All this hard work because she is beautiful. (2)
There is no need to waist such an effort in someone outside of your tone. As we say here: The line goes!

[hydrogonian]

(08-04-2010 11:12 PM)ulysses28 Wrote:  

you a [restaurant title] fan?

I liked your game all the way up to this point.

You asked her a question again, and to get an approval for a date. Thats not what this girl will respond to.

You already won the bet. She even responded to the quiz correctly, knowing the consequence was a second date with you. That was the opening to lead her the way that she wanted to be led. You should have said "your going with me to xyz on Saturday. Pick you up at 7."

The alphaness would have made her wet her panties a little. If she really didn't want to date you again, then you are making her reject you, which is fine. Its much better than asking her for an approval to take her out. Lead, lead, lead.

Whenever you find yourself asking a girl a question, stop and evaluate it. Is it really necessary? If its not, then don't. The only questions you should ask her are when its time to get to know her. For dates, its an automatic downgrade in game most of the time (unless you are really in with her already, and she's dying for you to ask), imo.

For aloof women that aren't all over you, you have to be the leader, and in my opinion be direct without being needy or asking her for approval (you say things without caring about her response). If she doesn't want to join you for dinner, fine you dont care. Next subject. She doesn't want to fuck you, fine next subject. Your smile just gets bigger, and instead of your emotional energy decreasing, it increases. Your positivity increases when you are rejected. This shows incredible confidence. It shows that she's the bunny that you are playing with, and not the other way around. But you aren't ever asking her questions on which your approval or rejection hangs.

If you get pushed away, you then come back around and make approaches again. You never care about her response, or show an emotional reaction to it, other than an increase in positive emotional energy when possible. If you get rejected, your smile gets bigger because you know that the game is on. But you genuinely have to feel great about it, or she will read your decrease in emotional energy. You cant fake it. This will confound her and make her very curious about you. No guy that she knows does this, except the rare top alpha guys that she knows. She WILL break and give you what you want if you do this continuously. Its what she wants from a guy who's going to lead her right into the bedroom.

If you need a way to train yourself to not care about her response, then make sure you have multiple women in play at once. This, more than anything, will cause you to truly not care.

Worst possible scenario, you show up to pick her up and she's not there. Who cares. You at least have a better chance this way and aren't basically asking her "accept me or reject me?" Just smile, and roll away, confident in the fact that there are thousands of more girls in your area that are game to succumbing to your unstoppable confidence, directness, and i don't give a shit attitude. She's missing out.

[ulysses28]

@hydrongonian: Yeah, as soon as I sent that text, I realized I blew it with the question. She never responded. Your advice is spot on, and I have to consciously keep that mindset going, as does anyone who wants to be successful with the hottest girls. Particularly with smoking hot girls like this, the margin for error is extremely slim. it's a different league.

If I had to do it again, instead of all those cutesy messages, the first text I sent after our first date would have been, as hydrongonian said: "Dinner at xyz on Saturday. Pick you up at 7. Wear Heels."

I decided to experiment earlier today with Roissy's non-sequitur game, and it works like a charm. The problem was I had no idea where to go after that.

at 3pm today I texted her: "sounds tempting, but busy tonight. maybe tomorrow"
1 Minute later she responded:"What sounds tempting?"
I let her stew for an hour, and responded: "wrong person. my bad. lots of things are tempting."
No response.

I probably just should have never responded.

Lessons learned! On to the next one!

Thanks again for all the advice gentlemen. I'll post another case study soon.

[The_CEO]

Kona, Lumiere, and now Hydro have given some really useful feedback (I'm not even involved in this, but good insight anyway...)

Ulysses: i think you could still get this girl out if you wanted to... using your "dinner time & place" text.

Good luck

[AlphaQup2nite]

Case in point from a chick im not even trying to game.

I got a friend, she is a terrible flake, but we usally meet up once every few months to catch up and remember the wild crazy party days. Anyways, i found out that more often i will get her out when i say "you will be here at this time" then something along the lines of "hey want to meet up for dinner?" I even called her out on it once, and she told me it was because the open-endedness immediately puts the idea of hanging out with me on the back burner while she thinks about other things she might be doing, or other people who might be hanging out. So instead of her thinking, at 7 pm i am i free, she is thinking about the whole night in general, and if she already has plans later or earlier in the night she is more likely to reject. The inverse is true when i give a time and a place, as she instinctual checks her mental schedule and gives you a yes or no based off timing alone.

Now note that in this case i am not trying to game her, but i would imagine if a girl was attracted, this would be only more apparent.

[Roosh]

I think you're generally trying too hard over text, at least much more than her.

When she responded its "shark week", i would have cooled off for several days. She's basically telling you she rather watch a nature documentary than hang out with you, and yet you kept going.

[Roosh]

"Dinner at xyz on Saturday. Pick you up at 7. Wear Heels."

That won't work.

She's playing you right now.. and you want to invite her to dinner.

Don't message her again unless she does, then you can ask her out again to something SIMPLE (not dinner), but only if she's enthusiastic. 50/50 odds she won't text you, but that's how it goes.

Every witty/cocky text you send at this point is like another nail in the coffin. If you're forced to be witty/cocky by text then you're losing.

(08-05-2010 06:19 PM)ulysses28 Wrote:  

@hydrongonian: Yeah, as soon as I sent that text, I realized I blew it with the question. She never responded. Your advice is spot on, and I have to consciously keep that mindset going, as does anyone who wants to be successful with the hottest girls. Particularly with smoking hot girls like this, the margin for error is extremely slim. it's a different league.

If I had to do it again, instead of all those cutesy messages, the first text I sent after our first date would have been, as hydrongonian said: "Dinner at xyz on Saturday. Pick you up at 7. Wear Heels."

I decided to experiment earlier today with Roissy's non-sequitur game, and it works like a charm. The problem was I had no idea where to go after that.

at 3pm today I texted her: "sounds tempting, but busy tonight. maybe tomorrow"
1 Minute later she responded:"What sounds tempting?"
I let her stew for an hour, and responded: "wrong person. my bad. lots of things are tempting."
No response.

I probably just should have never responded.

Lessons learned! On to the next one!

Thanks again for all the advice gentlemen. I'll post another case study soon.

[charmer]

[quote='Roosh' pid='24930' dateline='1281080196']
"Dinner at xyz on Saturday. Pick you up at 7. Wear Heels."

That won't work.

She's playing you right now.. and you want to invite her to dinner.

Don't message her again unless she does, then you can ask her out again to something SIMPLE (not dinner), but only if she's enthusiastic. 50/50 odds she won't text you, but that's how it goes.

Every witty/cocky text you send at this point is like another nail in the coffin. If you're forced to be witty/cocky by text then you're losing.

[quote='ulysses28' pid='24905' dateline='1281050367']


thats what i meant.

[ulysses28]

so i disregarded some wise advice just to see what would happen.

me: you and me. dinner tomorrow at chino. pick you up at 8.
her: sounds good.
me: wear heels. what's your address.
her: 123 xzy street. why do i have to wear heels?
me: haha, because I like girls that wear heels. wear whatever you want.

I think the non-sequitur text loosened her up. I should have cut out the "haha". This girl does not respond to nice. I also thought about not saying "wear whatever you want", but I want to see what she chooses. if she wears heels i'll know she wants me to like her. if she doesn't, that's a huge IOD.

I think I'm still coming from a position of weakness taking her out to dinner. Time to step it up. I have plans to bounce with her after dinner to a bar/club where my friends can provide some social proof.

[The_CEO]

Nice work

it seemed like your texts were engaging her, but previously to this last one, you'd blow the interaction at the last second.

[Feo]

Nice dude. I was about to post here the other day and tell you it was still salvagable but something came up.

I've been in the same situation a couple times, but I remember this one time I salvaged the girl after a couple weeks of flakes and rejections. Anyone else would have given up but I pushed through, non-sequits, text-negs I tried everything and finally got her out to the bars. As soon as I finally get some flow going an old buddy of mine shows up. He was in this metal band and started telling me about his music. He backs up and starts screaming into his air mic, and I could see it in her eyes dude she was all about him.

Anyway long story short, I lost control of the situation until his girlfreind got to the bar and she came back to me by default. I ended up anger fucking her that night with enough alpha to keep her around for a couple months, but ever since that night when I run into this situation I just get in that "air mic" mindframe. You get it already man, no "haha's" and shit, just be hardcore or you'll slip and lose her.