[TheCaptainPower]

Organized religion drives me crazy.

I'm sorry, but the bible is completely made up.

Both sides of my family are strict Catholics, and I cant stand it.


How can any of it be true?


The whole book is full of contradictions and falsehoods.


Let's start right from the beginning, "Noah's Ark."


Do you believe that one man carried two of every single animal on a man made boat? That is 100% impossible. Not every species is located in the same geographical region. What if one of the female animals had fertility problems? Did the animal go instinct?


It's a great fable, but it's obviously bullshit.


But if you believe that the bible is real, then you have to believe that story is accurate.


Read this again, because this is important. IT IS 100% IMPOSSIBLE!!!


So why do we keep reading after that? If it is obvious that the stories are made up, how can we take it seriously?


In my opinion, religion is supposed be spiritual, you cant "organize it."


When you tell me that I have to go to a certain building on Sundays, or I can only eat specific foods on Fridays, I hope you realize that those traditions are made up.


For example, let's say you ask an elderly man why he is in love with his wife.


Most likely, he is going to tell you they have a certain "chemistry." Maybe it is emotional. Maybe it is spiritual.


But what if you tried to "organize" love?


You tell the old man that he has to visit a building every Sunday.
You tell the old man that he has to repeat the same songs every week.
You tell the old man that he has to re-read the story about how he met his wife over, and over, and over again to show his dedication.


After a while the old man is going to realize that it is bullshit. Love is spiritual, he doesn't need a song and dance to prove it.


Let's take the bible as what it really is, a collection of primitive stories regarding deities that have been around for thousands of years.


At one point it was Zeus, after Zeus it was Ramses, and then it was Jesus.


Why is there life on earth? Because the Earth has the best orbital distance from the sun compared to the other planets in this galaxy. That's it...


I grew up in Brooklyn NY, and when I was in elementary school my class was mixed with Muslims, Hindus, Jews, and Catholics.


Who is right, and who is wrong?


Your all fucking wrong. The bible is a great book that is an excellent collection of moral stories that have been passed down for generation after generation, but it is obviously made up.

The United States was formed on freedom of religion, and I respect that, but for myself personally I just don't believe in it.

BTW, I can't wait until they clone that Wholly Mammoth : )

[dog24]

Of course its made up, even some catholics would admit that but thats not the point of it or the traditions as you call it... Most people cant accept the idea that there is no afterlife, so they choose to believe a lie rather than live a life of depression, can you blame them for it? I can live fine knowing that one day i will cease to exist and everything ive done wont matter except to maybe some offspring i leave behind, if people cant functiong properly without believing a self impossed lie and live in delusion let them

[jariel]

Religion and spirituality are two different things.

Those who prescribe to the former are humans looking for a spiritual experience, while the latter recognize they are spiritual beings having a human experience.

[Gmac]

When I think of religion I think of Russian roulette. It doesn't really matter which crazy ideology you choose, in the end you still lose.

[scorpion]

Organized religions did not evolve to be logically and philosophically bulletproof; they evolved because they're a phenomenally effective means of keeping societies glued together and providing the average man a comfortable philosophy of life that allows him to sleep well at night and be productive during the day.

Most men are not philosophers, and as such are not equipped to construct a personal belief system that answers all the deep, metaphysical questions (to the extent that they can be answered at all). They don't want to stare into the existential abyss. They simply want something to be placed between them and the abyss. An organized religion is simply a pre-packaged philosophy of life that has the added benefit of being shared by everyone you know. For this reason, in addition to giving comfort to the average individual, organized religions are also great means of building group solidarity.

This last fact explains why the decline of organized religion in the West is not necessarily a good thing. Yes, it allows for a more rationalistic society, but it essentially dissolves the glue that held that society together in the first place. As that glue dissolves, communities begin to disintegrate as people become more individualistic and selfish. When communities disintegrate, it isn't long before the family unit also begins to fall apart, which is what we're seeing now. A culture of hyper-individualism where people are only concerned with their own self-aggrandizement and enrichment at the expense of their community, their family and ultimately themselves.

[vinman]

Noah's Ark was a repository of DNA from all the animals on Earth. This guys says so, and I believe him because he has an honest face, and magnificent hair.

[Roadrunner]

(06-02-2013 01:48 PM)scorpion Wrote:  

Organized religions did not evolve to be logically and philosophically bulletproof; they evolved because they're a phenomenally effective means of keeping societies glued together and providing the average man a comfortable philosophy of life that allows him to sleep well at night and be productive during the day.

I somewhat agree with this statement, although a lot of things in the bible concerning incest and slavery are outdated.

[AlbertoDelMuerto]

OP what you say about Psalms and Quran ?

[painter]

I'm not much for religion. I am a big reader, though, and The Bible is actually a mind blowing book just for the age of the damn thing.

It's the first book. The stories are epic, based on the most ancient, bloody, and terrifying events in human memory, passed down from the time of pagan superstition.

Where'd it come from? What's been taken out of it because it's too powerful for "ordinary" people and distracts them from wanting to slave away building up civilization for a powerful ruling elite? What's been added in it's place to teach blind submission?

If you're sick of the Bible get a copy of The Golden Bough by Sir James George Frazer and read what it was like before all these "one true religions" sprouted up.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Golden-Bough-E...0486424928

[Tex Pro]

The bible is obviously made up. The only problem is that so many people really want some sort of guiding philosophy in life, so they choose religion. Oh, and Capt, next time use paragraphs. Tough to read when you type a long post in just lines.

[Viagra_Falls]

It was certainly molded for control purposes but I don’t see how you could say it was completely made up. The great flood was the melting of the Antarctic Ice Cap after the last ice age and many of the other events can be explained by advanced tehcnology - Ezekiel’s Wheel, Enoch going up into “heaven” (even though his book was omitted) the Immacule Conception - as can other anamolies of ancient history (great pyramids, pumapunka, baalbek).

[Sherman]

A good introduction to the Bible is "Asimov's Guide to the Bible". Isaac Asimov was a prolific science fiction writer and actually an atheist. But he gives a good secular history of the Bible, which was far from being "made up".

http://www.amazon.com/Asimovs-Guide-Bibl...Descending

[speakeasy]

Divers have yet to find any evidence of Moses parting the Red Sea. If the waters closed in on the pursuing Egyptians the floor of the Red Sea should be littered with evidence like swords and shields.

Nobody has found any hard evidence of Jesus existence. And it sounds an awful lot like preexisting myths such as the epic of Gilgamesh.

[TheCaptainPower]

I was forced to to go to church every Sunday until about age 16. I get nothing out of it now.

I don't think religion is a bad thing per se, but I don't think enough people recognize that a lot of it is obviously "made up".

Priests, songs, holy water, the pope, mass, easter, lent, etc etc etc....

I can't really comment on the quran or any other religion, don't know anything about it...

[TheCaptainPower]

Didn't Jesus say the world was flat or something like that?

My father has high blood pressure, high cholesterol, every single old fat man health problem. He refuses to change his diet, but goes to church...

I always like, "What the fuck?" Didnt god give you intelligence and reason?

[ElJefe]

I don't think very many Christians believe all the Bible should be taken literally. Certainly the Catholic Church does not.

Most ancient writers exaggerated. Herodotus, Adam of Bremen, and many others.

The Quran, however, is the written word of God. The Bible is written by men. It's far easier to discuss and develop doctrine in Christianity than Islam, and I'd also point out the scientific revolution began in universities founded by Catholic theologians reasoning their way to truth and wisdom. It was faith in reason that enabled scientific progress. Man might be fallable and plagued by original sin, but the basic interpretation of Genesis goes, that man ate from the tree of knowledge and is therefore endowed with reason. This was interpreted as giving him permission to discover the truth behind God's Earth and the Universe.

It's common to view Christianity as anathema to wisdom or scientific progress, but the fact remains doctrine has long viewed science and scientific discovery merely as bringing man closer to God.

Of course, there have been attempts to squash this scientific progress, but they've obviously failed, and usually because the schools that believe faith and reason were allies won the day.

[xsplat]

(06-02-2013 01:48 PM)scorpion Wrote:  

Organized religions did not evolve to be logically and philosophically bulletproof; they evolved because they're a phenomenally effective means of keeping societies glued together and providing the average man a comfortable philosophy of life that allows him to sleep well at night and be productive during the day.

Most men are not philosophers, and as such are not equipped to construct a personal belief system that answers all the deep, metaphysical questions (to the extent that they can be answered at all). They don't want to stare into the existential abyss. They simply want something to be placed between them and the abyss. An organized religion is simply a pre-packaged philosophy of life that has the added benefit of being shared by everyone you know. For this reason, in addition to giving comfort to the average individual, organized religions are also great means of building group solidarity.

This last fact explains why the decline of organized religion in the West is not necessarily a good thing. Yes, it allows for a more rationalistic society, but it essentially dissolves the glue that held that society together in the first place. As that glue dissolves, communities begin to disintegrate as people become more individualistic and selfish. When communities disintegrate, it isn't long before the family unit also begins to fall apart, which is what we're seeing now. A culture of hyper-individualism where people are only concerned with their own self-aggrandizement and enrichment at the expense of their community, their family and ultimately themselves.

Sometimes charismatic leaders or even the state will step in and fill the religious role.

I've been thinking about taking steps in that direction myself. Starting up my own religion, in a way, or at least movements that bring value to people and build community spirit and bonds and motivate groups towards positive action.

I think the technology for such charismatic group leadership is there. The CIA has put some of it together.

If people can point to me some reference material to help that would be appreciated.

[speakeasy]

(06-02-2013 01:48 PM)scorpion Wrote:  

Organized religions did not evolve to be logically and philosophically bulletproof; they evolved because they're a phenomenally effective means of keeping societies glued together and providing the average man a comfortable philosophy of life that allows him to sleep well at night and be productive during the day.

Most men are not philosophers, and as such are not equipped to construct a personal belief system that answers all the deep, metaphysical questions (to the extent that they can be answered at all). They don't want to stare into the existential abyss. They simply want something to be placed between them and the abyss. An organized religion is simply a pre-packaged philosophy of life that has the added benefit of being shared by everyone you know. For this reason, in addition to giving comfort to the average individual, organized religions are also great means of building group solidarity.

This last fact explains why the decline of organized religion in the West is not necessarily a good thing. Yes, it allows for a more rationalistic society, but it essentially dissolves the glue that held that society together in the first place. As that glue dissolves, communities begin to disintegrate as people become more individualistic and selfish. When communities disintegrate, it isn't long before the family unit also begins to fall apart, which is what we're seeing now. A culture of hyper-individualism where people are only concerned with their own self-aggrandizement and enrichment at the expense of their community, their family and ultimately themselves.

Very well stated. Couldn't agree more.

[Belgrano]

(06-02-2013 12:25 PM)TheCaptainPower Wrote:  

At one point it was Zeus, after Zeus it was Ramses, and then it was Jesus.

(06-02-2013 12:25 PM)TheCaptainPower Wrote:  

Why is there life on earth? Because the Earth has the best orbital distance from the sun compared to the other planets in this galaxy. That's it...

(06-02-2013 02:25 PM)Viagra_Falls Wrote:  

It was certainly molded for control purposes but I don’t see how you could say it was completely made up. The great flood was the melting of the Antarctic Ice Cap after the last ice age and many of the other events can be explained by advanced tehcnology - Ezekiel’s Wheel, Enoch going up into “heaven” (even though his book was omitted) the Immacule Conception - as can other anamolies of ancient history (great pyramids, pumapunka, baalbek).

Link

[Beyond Borders]

(06-02-2013 12:25 PM)TheCaptainPower Wrote:  

Why is there life on earth? Because the Earth has the best orbital distance from the sun compared to the other planets in this galaxy. That's it...

You made a jump from the bible being full of holes to random biological chance being the ultimate truth and expected people to follow you. Huge jump and the fatal flaw of your rant, in my opinion.

Religion is way iffy, I agree. I've never been a follower and religions are one of the best examples out there of why not to jump on the bandwagons that I despise.

But it takes one guy sitting in a room, just opening himself to the possibility of a higher spirit, to realize there's something more going on. All "science" and it's equally unprovable claims aside, have you ever tried that?

We could argue it all day if we wanted to, though it would get us nowhere. Or, for curiosity's sake, you could explore spirituality on your own time and find out for yourself. It takes nothing, and if you're really just on this earth to live and die, taking a couple days off from reality to try doesn't really matter, does it?

The scientific evidence, though largely ignored, is even out there that there's a lot of tricky shit going on in this world that we don't understand. Books have been written about it - with far more crediblility (as we understand it) than the Bible, I might add.

Just saying you might want to give it some exploration before drawing conclusions like "the bible is shit = we're lucky organisms on an opportune chunk of rock."

Quote:

BTW, I can't wait until they clone that Wholly Mammoth : )

Who's they? The Straw Men?

[Norset]

The older I get, the more I appreciate a moderate religion (most of Christianity in its current form). As I get even older, I will probably begin to publicly declare myself Christian and go to (a relatively sane) church.

As with everything in life, one choice opens up new problems. So, one must chose the lesser evil.

Whether you believe in an afterlife or not is the biggest divider, as Scorpion elaborated on.

Also Taleb shares his wisdom: "The mind abhors a vacuum"

[dk902]

The OP - I recommend Christopher Hitchens - God is not great, why religion poisons everything.

He creates a logical and well thought out argument against religion.

Also he systematically destroys the main religions, i.e. Islam, Judaism and Christianity and demonstrates how they're imitations of each other.

The language can be unnecessarily flowery and reads as a bit pretentious at times, but overall very engaging and a great read.

[TheCaptainPower]

The Catholic Church says you can't eat meat on Fridays during lent...What does that have to do with anything???

Most families order in mozzerella sticks and pizza on Friday's during lent as their "sacrifice"...

The more you try to organize religion, the more it just sounds like B.S to me...

[Merenguero]

(06-02-2013 07:29 PM)TheCaptainPower Wrote:  

The Catholic Church says you can't eat meat on Fridays during lent...What does that have to do with anything???

The story I heard was that one year, many fishermen in Northern Italy were having a slow season and went to the pope and asked for his help. The pope's solution was to forbid people from eating meat during a specific season in order to increase the chances that they would be buying/eating fish. I heard that story many years ago and never fully researched it, so I'm not completely sure.

[Yano]

I think of organized religion as a way to control the masses.

Religion is easy to preach and hard to prove wrong. Without control over the masses, civilization would have had a tough time becoming stable.

The world would be a Wild West style scenario in which daily activities would be rape, pillage, and then rape some more.

I like the Wild West.