[gandt]

Hey gents,

I am looking to develop some skills in:

1. Online Marketing
2. Coding
   

The fields seem so broad that I am sort of overwhelmed to a point where I don't know where to start. So let me explain my purpose for this and maybe you guys can suggest some:

*online material
*books
*exercises
*forums
*etc...

Purpose:

Having a business and consulting background, I have always been strong with idea development and strategy. Coming up with marketing strategy is no problem.

The problem is that I lack the technical ability to implement these tech/internet ideas.

I want to be able to at least make a MINIMUM VIABLE PRODUCT on my own to test an online business before having to hire a professional developer. Furthermore, I want to be able to get the word out about a product through online marketing.

So if anyone has some guidance or advice it would be appreciated. You can PM me and we can chat, or you can post here.

Cheers!

[RichieP]

To be honest, SEO and coding are specialist technical disciplines that take ages to become competent in.

It's like saying you want to learn carpentry because you see a gap in the market for a kind of table. Not sensible.

Social media marketing is not nearly so technical and you could actually learn pretty quickly if you have a business/strategy background. A good book or two will get you set. And it could be of some use for testing an MVP.

Learning coding is not a good idea, not for making a MVP. Find someone to do it for you cheap or for free - a university CS student who wants a testimonial; a cheap guy in the Philippines on odesk. It will take you weeks to be able to build anything more than a form, seriously. 6 months of learning until you know enough to build your MVP, if it's a simple web or phone app. And you could have paid someone a few $100 to do it for you in two weeks.

SEO is also another behemoth, and it's not at all a good choice for testing an MVP anyway. Sites take months to hit the top results in the search engines.

If anything, learn some basic Display Advertising (adwords, facebook). That's how you test MVPs quickly - you can have ads running tomorrow and start pulling targeted traffic. But again, that's something you should just get someone who's learning it themselves to do for you for in exchange for a testimonial. Or say a young freelance Adwords consultant (who's maybe learned the ropes for a year or two in an agency) who will work for cheap to build up their reputation.

Don't learn carpentry to sell tables!!! I cannot emphasise that enough lol.

[gandt]

(05-24-2013 04:26 AM)RichieP Wrote:  

To be honest, SEO and coding are specialist disciplines.

It's like saying you want to learn carpentry because you see a gap in the market for a kind of table. Not sensible.

Social media marketing you could learn pretty quickly if you have a business/strategy background. A good book or two will get you set.

Learning coding is not a good idea, not for making a MVP. Find someone to do it for you cheap or for free - a university CS student who wants a testimonial; a cheap guy in the Philippines on odesk. It will take you weeks to be able to build anything more than a form, seriously.

SEO is also another behemoth, and it's not at all a good choice for testing an MVP anyway. Sites take months to hit the top results in the search engines.

If anything, learn some basic Display Advertising (adwords, facebook). That's how you test MVPs quickly. But again, that's something you should just get someone who's learning it themselves to do for you for in exchange for a testimonial. Find uni students/ recent college graduates who want to build up their reputation.

Don't learn carpentry to sell tables!!! I cannot emphasise that enough lol.

Good advice man.

Maybe I should be more clear.

I am not looking to code the next Facebook or Instagram. I am more so looking to create online products, which may be delivered through an e-book, video module, training course, etc....

So technically speaking, it shouldn't be rocket science.

That is why I thought it might be useful to develop basic coding and website design fundamentals.

Thoughts?

[RichieP]

BTW. You need to read Running Lean.

You can validate your problem/solution fit BEFORE you build one line of code in your product. Call potential customers, find out their pain points, find out if your idea is enough of a problem to even start building.

You can even run ad campaigns sending traffic to a landing page where you say something like "we're building this product for you as we speak. Sign up to our mailing list for early-bird access" or whatever. And you start building a targetted, interested list...then you email them asking what features they most need... etc etc.

i.e. you work back from the customer before you've even built anything.

[RichieP]

(05-24-2013 04:30 AM)gandt Wrote:  

Good advice man.

Maybe I should be more clear.

I am not looking to code the next Facebook or Instagram. I am more so looking to create online products, which may be delivered through an e-book, video module, training course, etc....

So technically speaking, it shouldn't be rocket science.

That is why I thought it might be useful to develop basic coding and website design fundamentals.

Thoughts?

The thing is, why learn any carpentry at all? It's not a good use of your time.

Next time you're on even a simple website, hit "Control-U" and see all the lines of HTML code it generates. Want to get stuck into all that just to build something simple? That's not even the real programming, the back-end PHP or whatever that *generates* that HTML.

Its just not worth it. Pay someone on odesk to do it for $200. And before that, focus your efforts on finding and validating a problem/solution fit...

If you want to just quickly throw up websites, go with Wordpress and a good premium theme. That's as techy as you wanna get I reckon.

just my 2c.

[WestIndianArchie]

Straight up, go to

http://www.smartpassiveincome.com

And look for the Niche Site Duel 2.0 post. Should still be on the 1st page.

It is exactly what you've asked for..what you want, but not necessarily what you need.

WIA

[WestIndianArchie]

(05-24-2013 04:26 AM)RichieP Wrote:  

If anything, learn some basic Display Advertising (adwords, facebook). That's how you test MVPs quickly - you can have ads running tomorrow and start pulling targeted traffic.

Don't learn carpentry to sell tables!!! I cannot emphasise that enough lol.

Where does one learn basic Display Advertising?

WIA

[RichieP]

(05-24-2013 05:31 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(05-24-2013 04:26 AM)RichieP Wrote:  

If anything, learn some basic Display Advertising (adwords, facebook). That's how you test MVPs quickly - you can have ads running tomorrow and start pulling targeted traffic.

Don't learn carpentry to sell tables!!! I cannot emphasise that enough lol.

Where does one learn basic Display Advertising?

WIA

I think this is seen as the book to start with:
http://www.amazon.com/Ultimate-Google-Ad...B008FOSH8K

If you wanted to really nail it thoroughly, you could go through a course like this in 1-3 months. These guys are real pros - Geddes is a giant in the Adwords industry, and Kaushik (the business owner) is the Analytics Evangelist for Google:
http://www.marketmotive.com/internet-mar...&topic=PPC

...or, you could just hire a freelance PPC guy. Someone like this:
http://www.karimium.com

You can get basic campaign management starting at $300 a month from those types of guys. Go for new freelancers (who are Adwords-certified), not agencies. And if they're any good it's usually a positive ROI for you because they write cost-effective ads and also help you optimise your landing page.

[gandt]

(05-24-2013 05:29 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

Straight up, go to

http://www.smartpassiveincome.com

And look for the Niche Site Duel 2.0 post. Should still be on the 1st page.

It is exactly what you've asked for..what you want, but not necessarily what you need.

WIA

What do you find most useful about this site? Did you take the course? Download the book?...

[WestIndianArchie]

(05-24-2013 07:34 AM)gandt Wrote:  

(05-24-2013 05:29 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

Straight up, go to

http://www.smartpassiveincome.com

And look for the Niche Site Duel 2.0 post. Should still be on the 1st page.

It is exactly what you've asked for..what you want, but not necessarily what you need.

WIA

What do you find most useful about this site? Did you take the course? Download the book?...

Clearly you didn't go to the site.

It's not a course, and he's not selling a book.

It's one guy who created 2 examples of what you're attempting to do, in public, in a transparent matter.

He created a study guide for the LEED exam for himself and then monetized it. But after doing that, he started from scratch again with no idea in his mind, did some research and came up with security guard training as a topic. (made 50k to date)

He has a long series of posts devoted to building this site, which is the industry leader. It's also interesting that the actual industry leaders are NOT the go to sites in their fields. It'd be like you writing a guide on seduction in the Former Soviet Union, and outselling Roosh.

So you take a non-expert, a non-tech guy, and he decides that he's going to support his wife and infant child on building websites and delivering content. He then lays it all out in front of you, including is mistakes, and definitely the kind of money he's seeing.

2 Days ago, he decided he was going to do it again with updated 2013 techniques. And he opened the project for everyone to participate and help each other on building their own sites.

So basically you get to follow along at home, while a successful person spoonfeeds you everything that he is doing.

Now if that isn't interesting, if you're not willing to just read 8-9 blog posts, then I don't know what to tell you.

WIA

[travolta]

(05-24-2013 04:13 AM)gandt Wrote:  

I want to be able to at least make a MINIMUM VIABLE PRODUCT on my own to test an online business before having to hire a professional developer. Furthermore, I want to be able to get the word out about a product through online marketing.

So if anyone has some guidance or advice it would be appreciated. You can PM me and we can chat, or you can post here.

Cheers!

Advice - make sure there's a demand for your product before you waste ANY time creating one.

[travolta]

(05-24-2013 05:31 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(05-24-2013 04:26 AM)RichieP Wrote:  

If anything, learn some basic Display Advertising (adwords, facebook). That's how you test MVPs quickly - you can have ads running tomorrow and start pulling targeted traffic.

Don't learn carpentry to sell tables!!! I cannot emphasise that enough lol.

Where does one learn basic Display Advertising?

WIA

http://stackthatmoney.com is the best forum for this. There's some gold on this forum, but it's not free.

[gandt]

(05-24-2013 11:32 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(05-24-2013 07:34 AM)gandt Wrote:  

(05-24-2013 05:29 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

Straight up, go to

http://www.smartpassiveincome.com

And look for the Niche Site Duel 2.0 post. Should still be on the 1st page.

It is exactly what you've asked for..what you want, but not necessarily what you need.

WIA

What do you find most useful about this site? Did you take the course? Download the book?...

Clearly you didn't go to the site.

It's not a course, and he's not selling a book.

It's one guy who created 2 examples of what you're attempting to do, in public, in a transparent matter.

He created a study guide for the LEED exam for himself and then monetized it. But after doing that, he started from scratch again with no idea in his mind, did some research and came up with security guard training as a topic. (made 50k to date)

He has a long series of posts devoted to building this site, which is the industry leader. It's also interesting that the actual industry leaders are NOT the go to sites in their fields. It'd be like you writing a guide on seduction in the Former Soviet Union, and outselling Roosh.

So you take a non-expert, a non-tech guy, and he decides that he's going to support his wife and infant child on building websites and delivering content. He then lays it all out in front of you, including is mistakes, and definitely the kind of money he's seeing.

2 Days ago, he decided he was going to do it again with updated 2013 techniques. And he opened the project for everyone to participate and help each other on building their own sites.

So basically you get to follow along at home, while a successful person spoonfeeds you everything that he is doing.

Now if that isn't interesting, if you're not willing to just read 8-9 blog posts, then I don't know what to tell you.

WIA

I sincerely appreciate the advice but if you could take it easy with the condescending attitude that would be great.

I gave it a quick 30 second glance while at work and saw the following image, which made me think he was selling an e-book.:

   

For some reason I thought I read something about a course too...

I have looked into it a bit more now that I have had a second to breath this entire week. It seems to be a really cool program. I like the community environment and am going to do some more research and brainstorming this weekend.

If you are participating in this program and are interested in collaborating, hit me up.

Thanks again.

[manilaguy]

I've been researching this as I work on another income source and here are my findings.

1.) You can't really trust these web marketers for help. They're always trying to sell you something, like those PUA bullshitter -- each one has a theory a niche they are trying to monetize. Go to warriorforum and look and these guys in action. YOU ARE THE MARKET! Some of it sounds like a ponzi scheme, that feeds the dream of being an internet marketer. If you can't articulate the value added then it's probably a scam.

2.) There are tons of ways to make money online, not just a single way so do your research. Some sell traffic, some build website to bring in traffic, some design the website that bring traffic, some install the design to the website that brings in traffic.. some do this for iphone, some for kindle, some for whatever device, some sell products that use traffic, some build website for products that uses traffic.. it all ends in infinity. There are business models upon business models to choose from. My theory is that feeding upon the growth of wannabe internet marketers in itself becomes the niche of the seasoned internet marketer and marks their success.

3.) Just start. I should have started long ago and I regret not having done so. oh well..

[manilaguy]

(05-24-2013 05:29 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

Straight up, go to

http://www.smartpassiveincome.com

And look for the Niche Site Duel 2.0 post. Should still be on the 1st page.

It is exactly what you've asked for..what you want, but not necessarily what you need.

WIA

Like these ones. If you notice there are TONS and TONS of these sites. In itself it feeds the market, which is the internet marketers market.. YOU! In this industry, it would be hard to see the value as markets fog things up. It has the makings of a ponzi scheme and some models are straight up Ponzi style.

If I were you I would make a legit site. Like a ecommerce site say selling jewelry or bike pumps or some physical product or informational product (oh please dont make it about generating passive income!) then sell away.

[worldwidetraveler]

(05-24-2013 04:24 PM)manilaguy Wrote:  

I've been researching this as I work on another income source and here are my findings.

1.) You can't really trust these web marketers for help. They're always trying to sell you something, like those PUA bullshitter -- each one has a theory a niche they are trying to monetize. Go to warriorforum and look and these guys in action. YOU ARE THE MARKET! Some of it sounds like a ponzi scheme, that feeds the dream of being an internet marketer. If you can't articulate the value added then it's probably a scam.

You think people should teach you for free?

[manilaguy]

(05-24-2013 05:05 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

(05-24-2013 04:24 PM)manilaguy Wrote:  

I've been researching this as I work on another income source and here are my findings.

1.) You can't really trust these web marketers for help. They're always trying to sell you something, like those PUA bullshitter -- each one has a theory a niche they are trying to monetize. Go to warriorforum and look and these guys in action. YOU ARE THE MARKET! Some of it sounds like a ponzi scheme, that feeds the dream of being an internet marketer. If you can't articulate the value added then it's probably a scam.

You think people should teach you for free?

They need to show me their earnings made outside "selling to other internet marketers".














But WAIT!

If you act now.. you get two of our products for free.

----------------------------------------------------
how to spot internet marketing scam artists for the total newb -- the ultimate IM ebook!
increase traffic 2500% in two days using these proven IM guru techniques!

[Alpha Mind]

Have you read 4HWW?

Creating an MVP is easy and there's a load of tutorials online.

Don't waste your time with display. It is not for the faint of heart and unless you know EXACTLY what ALL your numbers look like and have an offer that has a long-standing, proven conversion rate, you're wasting money.

Search advertisements on Google, Bing, & FB are not true display advertising.

Throwing up and adwords campaign and seeing if it converts isn't as easy at is used to be. Additionally, you're looking at maybe 4-5% CTR if your copy is great and there's not a lot of competition.

Organic search traffic converts substantially higher than paid search.

Regarding training courses from internet marketers....

Are there a lot of scams? Yes.

Does that mean they're all scams? No.

In reality, most people simply aren't effective/driven enough to follow the course/modules/instructions and take actionable steps accordingly.

Rather than worry about coding and marketing, you should focus your efforts on product sourcing.

Do you know how to identify opportunities? Trends?

How well do you actually understand product margins?

Do you know how to fulfill orders and make the process a system that any mule can understand?

Before you open a retail store, you need products to sell. Same rule applies here.

Rather than worry about starting your own store, go find 3-4 products you think have potential and sell them on Amazon.

Things needed to sell on Amazon:

- Product(s)
- UPC codes (easy and cheap)
- $40 for a paid merchant account (the free one sucks)
- A few friends to buy and review your product
- Basic knowledge of how Amazon's A9 search operates

Amazon has over 80 million credit cards on file and nearly every search has commercial intent, as opposed to traffic from Google and Bing.

Prove people will buy your product on Amazon before investing time & energy into selling it yourself.

Every person who can swim started with floaties at some point.

Once you do that, then use WordPress. There are PLENTY of themes that look fine out of the box and/or only need a few tweaks. You can outsource that.

[worldwidetraveler]

(05-25-2013 11:19 AM)manilaguy Wrote:  

They need to show me their earnings made outside "selling to other internet marketers".

Ah, gotcha. If they rank for a term like "Internet Marketing", it would automatically be a scam in your eyes and you couldn't possibly learn anything from them.

Why is it the people who are not making money are the ones telling others who to listen and not listen too?

Quote:

But WAIT!

If you act now.. you get two of our products for free.

Make fun of that stuff but those using corny stuff like that make money unlike some haters.

[Alpha Mind]

(05-25-2013 03:31 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

(05-25-2013 11:19 AM)manilaguy Wrote:  

They need to show me their earnings made outside "selling to other internet marketers".

Ah, gotcha. If they rank for a term like "Internet Marketing", it would automatically be a scam in your eyes and you couldn't possibly learn anything from them.

Why is it the people who are not making money are the ones telling others who to listen and not listen too?

Quote:

But WAIT!

If you act now.. you get two of our products for free.

Make fun of that stuff but those using corny stuff like that make money unlike some haters.

Exactly.

Was college free? No.

You want to learn how to make money online for nothing? GTFO.

I heard WordPress.com is accepting applicants...

[WestIndianArchie]

(05-24-2013 12:37 PM)gandt Wrote:  

I sincerely appreciate the advice but if you could take it easy with the condescending attitude that would be great.

My bad homie, I get a little too amped sometimes.

WIA

[manilaguy]

Earnings or GTFO.

[manilaguy]

When they become top of the field (which is just being active member), they then run a cabal set-up and troll the forums.

Guy#1 writes ebook about his success/guide then other guy#2 says it works him! They like each other's comments -- cheers!! However in guy#1 ebook it recommends you to get a product say wordpress plugin that conveniently guy#2 created.

Internet Marketing is the wild wild west so a healthy dose of skepticism is a requirement in this field. Good luck anyways.

[worldwidetraveler]

(05-26-2013 03:19 PM)manilaguy Wrote:  

When they become top of the field (which is just being active member), they then run a cabal set-up and troll the forums.

Guy#1 writes ebook about his success/guide then other guy#2 says it works him! They like each other's comments -- cheers!! However in guy#1 ebook it recommends you to get a product say wordpress plugin that conveniently guy#2 created.

Internet Marketing is the wild wild west so a healthy dose of skepticism is a requirement in this field. Good luck anyways.

Yeah, listen to a guy who doesn't make any money online. I am sure you can't go wrong.

Or you can test stuff out yourself and find out what works and what doesn't.

For example, the idea behind manilaguy's favorite quote "But WAIT! If you act now.. you get two of our products for free. "

Ask Roosh how his sales went when he introduced bonuses if people purchased when he first launched a book. I believe it was the Ukraine book but it could have been before. I remember him saying sales increased. Roosh tested it out while guys like manilaguy scream scam and laugh.

This stuff is copywriting 101 but listen to the guy who yells scam the loudest. lol

OP, learn how to sell. Don't worry about the technical issues. You make money selling stuff not setting up websites.

[Beyond Borders]

(05-26-2013 02:56 PM)manilaguy Wrote:  

Earnings or GTFO.

(05-26-2013 03:19 PM)manilaguy Wrote:  

When they become top of the field (which is just being active member), they then run a cabal set-up and troll the forums.

Guy#1 writes ebook about his success/guide then other guy#2 says it works him! They like each other's comments -- cheers!! However in guy#1 ebook it recommends you to get a product say wordpress plugin that conveniently guy#2 created.

Internet Marketing is the wild wild west so a healthy dose of skepticism is a requirement in this field. Good luck anyways.

Now you're trolling this forum.

If you'll go back and read the OP, he was not asking for get-rich-quick schemes or writing in a thirsty manner. He was asking about where to go for skill-building, strategy, and technical guidance, which is a very healthy approach.

While the marketing "gurus" you mentioned do exist, there are quite a few of us on this forum who have first-hand experience making money online, often by implementing information we learned elsewhere, so there is credible info out there too.

You've made your point and everyone is well aware of your opinion. Your skepticism is understandable, but if you don't mind, there was a discussion going on here with other viewpoints, so no need to keep restating your own feelings about Internet Marketing (which is quite a bit off-topic) or make repeated back-to-back posts.