[Mentavious]

All that math Urban kid? That makes me want to throw up.

Here is what my undergrad coursework looked like for BME:

Biomed engineering design
Biomechanics
Tissue engineering
Biochem engineering
Bio instrumentation
Up to calculus 1

There are more but I can't remember the names.

My minor was chemistry so I took high level chem which includes analytical and biochemistry.
Quite a few biology courses also.

If you're good at strictly biology or chemistry I don't recommend having an engineering major.

Ps...I have a B.S.E and M.S.E in biomed engineering

[Wreckingball]

(05-21-2013 01:13 PM)CThunder86 Wrote:  

All that math Urban kid? That makes me want to throw up.

Here is what my undergrad coursework looked like for BME:

Biomed engineering design
Biomechanics
Tissue engineering
Biochem engineering
Bio instrumentation
Up to calculus 1

There are more but I can't remember the names.

My minor was chemistry so I took high level chem which includes analytical and biochemistry.
Quite a few biology courses also.

If you're good at strictly biology or chemistry I don't recommend having an engineering major.

Ps...I have a B.S.E and M.S.E in biomed engineering

Im also MS.E in Biomedical engineering. Do you find it hard to find jobs in the field? I've graduated recently and it's quite complicated. Not only for me, but also my colleagues. Some just went to SAP consultancy and a few to Ph.d/Research

[Mentavious]

(05-21-2013 02:02 PM)Wreckingball Wrote:  

(05-21-2013 01:13 PM)CThunder86 Wrote:  

All that math Urban kid? That makes me want to throw up.

Here is what my undergrad coursework looked like for BME:

Biomed engineering design
Biomechanics
Tissue engineering
Biochem engineering
Bio instrumentation
Up to calculus 1

There are more but I can't remember the names.

My minor was chemistry so I took high level chem which includes analytical and biochemistry.
Quite a few biology courses also.

If you're good at strictly biology or chemistry I don't recommend having an engineering major.

Ps...I have a B.S.E and M.S.E in biomed engineering

Im also MS.E in Biomedical engineering. Do you find it hard to find jobs in the field? I've graduated recently and it's quite complicated. Not only for me, but also my colleagues. Some just went to SAP consultancy and a few to Ph.d/Research

It took me 4 months to find a job that had the pay I was looking for. The state I live in doesn't have many companies in my field. Texas, Cali, mid Atlantic states seem to be better.
You look into working for the government? Plenty there. That will be my next step.

[Wreckingball]

(05-21-2013 02:22 PM)CThunder86 Wrote:  

(05-21-2013 02:02 PM)Wreckingball Wrote:  

(05-21-2013 01:13 PM)CThunder86 Wrote:  

All that math Urban kid? That makes me want to throw up.

Here is what my undergrad coursework looked like for BME:

Biomed engineering design
Biomechanics
Tissue engineering
Biochem engineering
Bio instrumentation
Up to calculus 1

There are more but I can't remember the names.

My minor was chemistry so I took high level chem which includes analytical and biochemistry.
Quite a few biology courses also.

If you're good at strictly biology or chemistry I don't recommend having an engineering major.

Ps...I have a B.S.E and M.S.E in biomed engineering

Im also MS.E in Biomedical engineering. Do you find it hard to find jobs in the field? I've graduated recently and it's quite complicated. Not only for me, but also my colleagues. Some just went to SAP consultancy and a few to Ph.d/Research

It took me 4 months to find a job that had the pay I was looking for. The state I live in doesn't have many companies in my field. Texas, Cali, mid Atlantic states seem to be better.
You look into working for the government? Plenty there. That will be my next step.

As a non US Citizen it is quite complicated to get working visa/Job in the US. I saw several positions that interest me but requirements are always to be US Citizen

[Ensam]

(05-21-2013 11:29 AM)Genghis Khan Wrote:  

(05-20-2013 09:12 PM)Ensam Wrote:  

On average the chemical and petroleum engineers I know make the most money but the top paid guys are very good EEs, 200-300k/year after bonuses.

Ensam, which fields do these EEs go into? Also, is that 200-300k/year with a Masters or PhD? I'm just curious, since that sounds like a really interesting job opportunity.

High speed digital system design, it's a mix of masters and Ph.Ds. The official job title is usually something along the lines of Principal Engineer. They're all in their mid 30s to mid 40s. It took about 10 years to get there from a starting salary somewhere in the mid 60s-70s. The base salary is similar to other mid-career engineers, somewhere in the low to mid 100k range, but the bonus package is insane-usually somewhere between 80-120% of their base pay in good years. Having that kind of career is hard to plan on and companies can go from being very generous with their bonus packages to stingy overnight so it's hard to count on the income year over year.

Consultants can pull down similar salaries but it's difficult to know exactly how much they take home because their tax structure is different and they can write off a lot of expenses. Legal consulting in either IP or liability cases is a great way to go if you can get your foot in the door.

[Mentavious]

(05-21-2013 02:35 PM)Wreckingball Wrote:  

(05-21-2013 02:22 PM)CThunder86 Wrote:  

(05-21-2013 02:02 PM)Wreckingball Wrote:  

(05-21-2013 01:13 PM)CThunder86 Wrote:  

All that math Urban kid? That makes me want to throw up.

Here is what my undergrad coursework looked like for BME:

Biomed engineering design
Biomechanics
Tissue engineering
Biochem engineering
Bio instrumentation
Up to calculus 1

There are more but I can't remember the names.

My minor was chemistry so I took high level chem which includes analytical and biochemistry.
Quite a few biology courses also.

If you're good at strictly biology or chemistry I don't recommend having an engineering major.

Ps...I have a B.S.E and M.S.E in biomed engineering

Im also MS.E in Biomedical engineering. Do you find it hard to find jobs in the field? I've graduated recently and it's quite complicated. Not only for me, but also my colleagues. Some just went to SAP consultancy and a few to Ph.d/Research

It took me 4 months to find a job that had the pay I was looking for. The state I live in doesn't have many companies in my field. Texas, Cali, mid Atlantic states seem to be better.
You look into working for the government? Plenty there. That will be my next step.

As a non US Citizen it is quite complicated to get working visa/Job in the US. I saw several positions that interest me but requirements are always to be US Citizen

Haha whoops.

What about international organizations? You look into Bayer?

[ms224]

My guide to getting a masters in the US on the cheap/free.

You will need:
Undergraduate Degree
US citizen ship
Access to a science database, google scholar will work but something like SCOPUS is better. You can get access through your university library.

So, you've decided to prolong the misery for a little longer? Why pay for it.

There is quite a bit of money floating around for scholarships and stipends for PhD candidates who are US Citizens.
These exist in real science fields, engineering, medicine, physics etc not some BS sociology shit.

Whatever you do, do NOT get a PhD unless you are stupid independently rich and really want it for the sake of a PhD. Besides the years you will waste not developing professionally, you might find yourself overqualified for most jobs and in a narrow field which may or may not be useful.

Step one, figure out what field of research interests you and you might possibly want to go into.
Ex. 3-5 semiconductor devices

You will need to be specific in this step. Find some specific topics of research that you would like to work on.
Ideally it will be something used in industry, has good funding at the moment and is done at places you would like to live for the next few years.

Go on SCOPUS, find people who are currently doing research in this topic. Usually the group leader is the last person in the authors list. Go to their group website and do some research. Also,look in the article for acknowledgements on who funded the project (ex NSF National Science Foundation or DoD, Department of Defense).

If it looks like a good fit. Call the group leader and talk to them about a PhD position. Tell them you are interested in their doctoral program and their doctoral research.

You will need to mention that you are a citizen (if you don't speak with an accent they will most likely ask you). This is basically a job interview on the phone. You will need show that you know something about this, are willing to work (for basically nothing) and you can fit in their group culture.

This will take a little practice but after the first few interviews you should get the hang of it.

There will be some application process but if they really want you it will go really smooth. Ideally you will have some professional experience in this topic.

The next step is to see who gives you a better offer. There is no reason for you to pay for your PhD. You should get your tuition and fees covered and some small stipend. $15-20k a year is pretty common (or was a few years back). Since you are basically getting slave wages, try to go someplace cheap. Big state schools in the middle of nowhere are not a bad choice.

You can negotiate this like a salary. It will be paid out of scholarships and your group leader's budget. Hence, make sure you go somewhere well funded.

So after you get your offer and your stipend and you start. Bust your ass off for like two months to get your foot into the door. It will probably suck.

Most PhD programs are filled with people who suck at everything besides going to school. Lots of IRTs. Be warned.
A lot of people you will meet think that doing anything with their hands is below them. This becomes problematic when things need to be built and/or you work with hazerdous or toxic materials (ex. Most anything 3/5s are made of).

As part your phd studies you will have to take some classes, do some research and pass this horrific qualifying exam. This is the hardest written test you will have in your life, its like three or four days usually. You should get two chances to pass this. Ask your advisor about whats on it, they should be fairly specific. Go to the director of graduate studies and ask him whats on it, they should point you to the people who write the exam.

The exam will probably be at the end of your first full semester and you will get another chance at it at the end of the next semester. If you don't pass they drop you out of the program.

Go talk to the people writing the exam, you want to at least show some effort for this.

Find out what classes you will need. Usually its like 30 or so hours of class. You will need to get As on all of them, though usually the graduate classes grade a little better. Anything less then a 3.0 in grad school will get you academic probation and probably won't let you graduate with less then 3.0.

Ok, so while you are doing all this PhD shit, look up the requirements for the masters. They are usually the same amount of classes and some smaller thesis project. This is what you want.

Your plan is to bang out the master's requirements while getting a stipend and a scholarship as a PhD student and then LEAVE. Make up some excuse,you're going to join the Army, get married, mental health, lack of money (which will be true), once you get there you quit and walk away with your master's degree for the cost of your time.

Plan should last about 12-16months and you will walk out with a master's degree and no loans.

This is the general scheme of things, feel free to ask more specifics on this or general R&D in academia.

[Young T.R.]

ms224 -- any advice for someone with a liberal arts undergraduate degree who wants to get a second undergrad or masters in Engineering? thanks.

[ms224]

Not sure what to say?

Do you like building things? Cars, bikes, industrial stuff?

Are you good at math and spatial concepts?

What do you want to do with your degree? Do you just want a better job?

Lets start with that?

[Genghis Khan]

(05-21-2013 08:55 PM)ms224 Wrote:  

My guide to getting a masters in the US on the cheap/free.

You will need:
Undergraduate Degree
US citizen ship
Access to a science database, google scholar will work but something like SCOPUS is better. You can get access through your university library.

So, you've decided to prolong the misery for a little longer? Why pay for it.

There is quite a bit of money floating around for scholarships and stipends for PhD candidates who are US Citizens.
These exist in real science fields, engineering, medicine, physics etc not some BS sociology shit.

Whatever you do, do NOT get a PhD unless you are stupid independently rich and really want it for the sake of a PhD. Besides the years you will waste not developing professionally, you might find yourself overqualified for most jobs and in a narrow field which may or may not be useful.

Step one, figure out what field of research interests you and you might possibly want to go into.
Ex. 3-5 semiconductor devices

You will need to be specific in this step. Find some specific topics of research that you would like to work on.
Ideally it will be something used in industry, has good funding at the moment and is done at places you would like to live for the next few years.

Go on SCOPUS, find people who are currently doing research in this topic. Usually the group leader is the last person in the authors list. Go to their group website and do some research. Also,look in the article for acknowledgements on who funded the project (ex NSF National Science Foundation or DoD, Department of Defense).

If it looks like a good fit. Call the group leader and talk to them about a PhD position. Tell them you are interested in their doctoral program and their doctoral research.

You will need to mention that you are a citizen (if you don't speak with an accent they will most likely ask you). This is basically a job interview on the phone. You will need show that you know something about this, are willing to work (for basically nothing) and you can fit in their group culture.

This will take a little practice but after the first few interviews you should get the hang of it.

There will be some application process but if they really want you it will go really smooth. Ideally you will have some professional experience in this topic.

The next step is to see who gives you a better offer. There is no reason for you to pay for your PhD. You should get your tuition and fees covered and some small stipend. $15-20k a year is pretty common (or was a few years back). Since you are basically getting slave wages, try to go someplace cheap. Big state schools in the middle of nowhere are not a bad choice.

You can negotiate this like a salary. It will be paid out of scholarships and your group leader's budget. Hence, make sure you go somewhere well funded.

So after you get your offer and your stipend and you start. Bust your ass off for like two months to get your foot into the door. It will probably suck.

Most PhD programs are filled with people who suck at everything besides going to school. Lots of IRTs. Be warned.
A lot of people you will meet think that doing anything with their hands is below them. This becomes problematic when things need to be built and/or you work with hazerdous or toxic materials (ex. Most anything 3/5s are made of).

As part your phd studies you will have to take some classes, do some research and pass this horrific qualifying exam. This is the hardest written test you will have in your life, its like three or four days usually. You should get two chances to pass this. Ask your advisor about whats on it, they should be fairly specific. Go to the director of graduate studies and ask him whats on it, they should point you to the people who write the exam.

The exam will probably be at the end of your first full semester and you will get another chance at it at the end of the next semester. If you don't pass they drop you out of the program.

Go talk to the people writing the exam, you want to at least show some effort for this.

Find out what classes you will need. Usually its like 30 or so hours of class. You will need to get As on all of them, though usually the graduate classes grade a little better. Anything less then a 3.0 in grad school will get you academic probation and probably won't let you graduate with less then 3.0.

Ok, so while you are doing all this PhD shit, look up the requirements for the masters. They are usually the same amount of classes and some smaller thesis project. This is what you want.

Your plan is to bang out the master's requirements while getting a stipend and a scholarship as a PhD student and then LEAVE. Make up some excuse,you're going to join the Army, get married, mental health, lack of money (which will be true), once you get there you quit and walk away with your master's degree for the cost of your time.

Plan should last about 12-16months and you will walk out with a master's degree and no loans.

This is the general scheme of things, feel free to ask more specifics on this or general R&D in academia.

A lot of wrong things:

1. I think people underestimate the value of a PhD in engineering. You might be overqualified for some jobs, but depending on what school you go to, you can also get jobs in technical consulting (pay $120k+). For example, Exponent consulting only hires PhDs in engineering and science. McKinsey, Bain, BCG, Goldman Sachs,... all like to hire PhDs from top engineering schools. MBB have a special path just for PhDs, MDs and JDs (Advanced Degree Holders).

Don't do a PhD for the money, but don't also assume it has no value. It's not the best use of your time or the best educational investment you can make in terms of ROI, but it's not terrible either.

2. Good PhD programs and especially quality advisors should/do provide good professional development. Additionally, you do learn how to work independently. Consultants have told me that's why they hire PhDs. Also, if you're even decently socially adept, you'll learn soft skills as well. TA'ing a few courses can (from what I've been told) do wonders for your communication and leadership skills.

3. "Most PhD programs are filled with people who suck at everything besides going to school. Lots of IRTs. Be warned.
A lot of people you will meet think that doing anything with their hands is below them. This becomes problematic when things need to be built and/or you work with hazerdous or toxic materials (ex. Most anything 3/5s are made of)."

Guaranteed this is not true. I agree though there are quite a few IRTs in PhD programs, but to say most PhD programs are filled with people who suck at everything besides school or hate doing physical work? Wrong, most people I know who work with semiconductors have no problem going into a clean room every day. Honestly, I don't see how anyone who does experimental work related to semiconductors can ever get their PhD without becoming good with their hands.

4. Qualifying exams are not always at the end of your first semester. Some schools won't let you take it until your second year. They're also not always (completely) written. Some schools expect a research talk.


That being said, yes, you can get into a PhD program, do the requirements for a Masters' degree and get out without paying a penny. It's not something I would advise, simply because certain industries are pretty close-knitted...some professors can be borderline sociopaths, so if you quit the program (even for good reasons), they might end up black balling you across the industry.

I once met an ex-doctoral student. She was a Physics major, got pregnant. Her advisor didn't like the fact she took a few months off. He ended up ruining her entire career as she couldn't find a job in anything related to her field (well-connected guy, even if he was a complete dick).

[Genghis Khan]

Honestly a better approach would be:
- get your bachelors
- work for a few years and then decide if you want an MS in Engineering, an MBA or something else
- if you want a MS/MBA, find out if your company will pay for it or save enough money to pay for it yourself

Going the entire 'I'll pretend to do a PhD' is a bit too shady for my taste.

[ms224]

(05-21-2013 11:25 PM)Genghis Khan Wrote:  

I'll try to hit up each one of these points. Engineering schools vary a lot and,honestly what I saw in academia wasn't the greatest experience YMMV.

A lot of wrong things:

1. I think people underestimate the value of a PhD in engineering. You might be overqualified for some jobs, but depending on what school you go to, you can also get jobs in technical consulting (pay $120k+). For example, Exponent consulting only hires PhDs in engineering and science. McKinsey, Bain, BCG, Goldman Sachs,... all like to hire PhDs from top engineering schools. MBB have a special path just for PhDs, MDs and JDs (Advanced Degree Holders).

Don't do a PhD for the money, but don't also assume it has no value. It's not the best use of your time or the best educational investment you can make in terms of ROI, but it's not terrible either.

Add in the time it takes to do a phd (5 years usually from what I've seen) plus a post doc (1 year) or two. Compare the pay to someone who has been working in the industry for for 5-6 years. They are a seasoned professional, the newly minted Phd is not quite the same.

The companies you mentioned are very competitive, many only hire the top and there is a glut of phds on the market right now. I think if you have a degree from somewhere other then the Ivys (or similar) its very hard to get a job at GS.

I know semiconductor hires quite a few but I'm not sure on the payscales as of right now.






2. Good PhD programs and especially quality advisors should/do provide good professional development. Additionally, you do learn how to work independently. Consultants have told me that's why they hire PhDs. Also, if you're even decently socially adept, you'll learn soft skills as well. TA'ing a few courses can (from what I've been told) do wonders for your communication and leadership skills.

Yes, a good phd program and a good quality advisor is great. Unfortunately I don't think they are as common as we would like

In my experience,a lot of professors treat their students (and post docs and researchers) like indentured servants.



3. "Most PhD programs are filled with people who suck at everything besides going to school. Lots of IRTs. Be warned.
A lot of people you will meet think that doing anything with their hands is below them. This becomes problematic when things need to be built and/or you work with hazerdous or toxic materials (ex. Most anything 3/5s are made of)."

Guaranteed this is not true. I agree though there are quite a few IRTs in PhD programs, but to say most PhD programs are filled with people who suck at everything besides school or hate doing physical work? Wrong, most people I know who work with semiconductors have no problem going into a clean room every day. Honestly, I don't see how anyone who does experimental work related to semiconductors can ever get their PhD without becoming good with their hands.

We probably have opposite experiences in this one. I've seen plenty of people in clean room labs who made semiconductors and I would not trust them to do good DOE and definitely not do anything with, say a screw driver.

The semiconductor industry, however, is huge and highly profitable so I would like to think there are plenty of smart people in it. Apparently before 2001 they paid stupid money for experienced people. My understanding is its not quite like that anymore, though they still pay really well.

A phd program can be used as a pathway to try and get a green card. Thus you get some people who come from cultures where they are encouraged (forced?) to do nothing but school. Same cultures also devalue getting your hands dirty, no matter how noble the dirt is.

At the same time, I've seen professors use these students as straight up indentured servants since loss of scholarship affects their ability to get the green card.




4. Qualifying exams are not always at the end of your first semester. Some schools won't let you take it until your second year. They're also not always (completely) written. Some schools expect a research talk.

None of the colleges I've had dealings with had this. It was all written.
I suppose we should add this to the list of things to ask when you apply


That being said, yes, you can get into a PhD program, do the requirements for a Masters' degree and get out without paying a penny. It's not something I would advise, simply because certain industries are pretty close-knitted...some professors can be borderline sociopaths, so if you quit the program (even for good reasons), they might end up black balling you across the industry.

I once met an ex-doctoral student. She was a Physics major, got pregnant. Her advisor didn't like the fact she took a few months off. He ended up ruining her entire career as she couldn't find a job in anything related to her field (well-connected guy, even if he was a complete dick).

Seen plenty of people like that unfortunately.

If you do want to do a PhD after reading all of this, think carefully.

[Genghis Khan]

Fair enough, I was talking mainly about the schools I know people from...they are Ivies and top 10 engineering schools. From what you've said though, I can see that other (and maybe even some of the top) schools might not be as great.

Though I do have to ask, is the semiconductor industry still that great? I've been told by some doctoral students in that field that the industry is becoming very saturated and some of the jobs are now moving to China, Taiwan etc as foundries move there as well.

[Young T.R.]

I'm good at fixing cars, computers, ipods, motorcycles. I'm not a math/science genius by any means, but I got A's in all my math classes up to Calculus, which was the last one I took. I always did well in Chemistry and Biology as well. Anything I've set my mind to I've accomplished. However, my college years were pretty turbulent and I ended up taking a pretty aimless approach and getting a liberal arts degree.

My plan now is to do oil rig work, either in North Dakota or down south, for at least a year. This will allow me to save up money and see if I can live with working in shitty upstream places. If anything it will prove my hands-on capability. Then I'll take the money and get a degree in Petroleum Engineering or Chemical Engineering. So, in short, my goal is to work in energy. I think I will really enjoy it. I always wanted to work with my hands, but also push myself mentally. The challenge of an Engineering degree also intrigues me. I want to test myself.

Anyway, If I didn't have to pay for my degree I could just invest the money I save up.

[ms224]

If you can get into an Ivy/MIT type of place, then yea, PHD is pretty nice.
People hear PhD from harvard and think you're special. Also, they have money and connections to get money.
I think they are very different then where the other 99% go to.

One reason why I personally don't think much of the ivy grads is that once you're in, the college wants you to succeed and not drop/fail out. Any state school couldn't care less if you live or die.

As far as working and going to get your masters, would you really want to go back to school part time after you've been out for a few years. You get school work on top of regular work and its stretched out.

I think semiconductor is somewhat cyclical. A lot of stuff is still here. Break open the Iphone and its mostly 1st world components made on 1st world machinery (AMAT for example).

[ms224]

Did you start in an engineering(ish) field, have crappy grades (possibly because of external constraints) and everyone told you to change majors just so you can graduate with some degree?

Try this, find some research into the oil/gas/nuclear industry that you are interested in (see above). Call the professor and see if they are looking for student researchers. They pay undergrads sometimes too, maybe not a lot but if you can get your scholarship covered it would be good.

Another big thing is can you transfer your general classes. That can cut a significant chunk of time (and money) out of the equation.

(05-22-2013 12:27 AM)Young T.R. Wrote:  

I'm good at fixing cars, computers, ipods, motorcycles. I'm not a math/science genius by any means, but I got A's in all my math classes up to Calculus, which was the last one I took. I always did well in Chemistry and Biology as well. Anything I've set my mind to I've accomplished. However, my college years were pretty turbulent and I ended up taking a pretty aimless approach and getting a liberal arts degree.

My plan now is to do oil rig work, either in North Dakota or down south, for at least a year. This will allow me to save up money and see if I can live with working in shitty upstream places. If anything it will prove my hands-on capability. Then I'll take the money and get a degree in Petroleum Engineering or Chemical Engineering. So, in short, my goal is to work in energy. I think I will really enjoy it. I always wanted to work with my hands, but also push myself mentally. The challenge of an Engineering degree also intrigues me. I want to test myself.

Anyway, If I didn't have to pay for my degree I could just invest the money I save up.

[Young T.R.]

Long story short: I started out just taking Gen Ed requirements and classes I liked, got all fucked up over a girl (she was the ONE! lol), took a semester off and traveled the U.S. doing hard labor jobs, came back clear-headed, then picked the major that would allow me to graduate as fast as possible. My plan was then to become an officer in the military. That was before I heard about the oil industry. I think it has what I'm looking for (mix of technical and hands-on), without the 4 year commitment and with much higher pay and future prospects.

Thanks for the response and suggestions! When the time comes around I will certainly look into doing research.

[the chef]

do engineers really take that much science? when i was in undergrad for biochem engineers weren't in my classes past freshman/sophomore year (intro physics I, II, g.chem I, II, calc I, II, diff eq.)... their focus seemed to be on more theoretical things (math). i never met an engineer in any of my classes past those... especially in my science courses like ochem, pchem, and any type of bio courses (that's a given though). i remember a couple of my engineering friends took thermo, but out of curiosity, what other sciences do engineers study?

[Genghis Khan]

@the chef, I think it depends on the person. I graduated a few years ago and I had a similar course to you. I did minor in physics and ended up taking a few more physics courses. I can see how other people, depending on their interests, would take more science courses than required.

@ms224, I totally agree with you on that. Like I said, my perspective was coming from the Ivy/MIT type of schools. And absolutely, Ivies do coddle you while state schools could care less (I went to state school and have personally seen how kids from one particular Ivy get treated). Not sure if it's the same on the PhD level though. The Ivies tend to focus on their undergrads more heavily...from what I can tell, grad students at Ivies get treated as well as anywhere else (perhaps a bit better in terms of stipend, but that's about it).

[ms224]

TR,
Have you considered ROTC?

You will get your school paid for and there is a lot of cool technical work in the military. Say crew chief on a Lancer?

Reason I've asked the above question is because I've seen a lot of people in that scenario.

Chef, It tends to vary by major but generally everyone takes the chem and physics and then it goes on to be more specialized.

For ME you will generally have thermo, a bunch of applied math classes (solving your life's problems with Laplace transforms), statics/dynamics, and your specialized classes.

GK, when I meant money I mean actual research budgets, not so much on the stipend. Along with this you get more resources, prestige, etc. Cobbling shit together from other shit gets old after a while.

I don't want to discourage anyone from looking into the science engineering fields. Its tough work but in a lot of ways very rewarding and you will meet a lot of interesting and smart people (plenty of hacks too).

Good critical and spatial thinking skill are like cardio, good for life. Once you get past calc 3 or so and into applied math and differential equations things will make more sense.

Being able to look at a car or an electrical circuit or the like and figure out whats wrong and how to fix it will improve your life significantly.

[Young T.R.]

The military is tempting for me, always has been. They probably have a lot of cool toys for me to play with. I'd have to see what the commitments are for ROTC though, it's gotta be at least four years.

[Norset]

Engineering PhD student chiming in:

Knowing what I know now I'd still do engineering as my career, but I'd probably not do the PhD, but a master in a field directly related to big industries. But I'm in a top 5 program in my field, in a top 10-ish school, with full funding and a nice living environment, and on track to finish in 4.5 years. That's my rationalization hamster talking. I don't expect to work with anything directly related to what I'm researching, though.

The "get masters while pretending to do PhD track" is well known, and serious schools will weed you out like crazy if they smell this. Or, they will do the easy way and just hire foreigners who can't quit and get a job very easily.

A post-doc is 100% out of the question, since there is no guarantee to get a tenure track position even if you do very well, and the hours are insane compared to pay (same for the PhD, but you can discount the fist 2 years as "Master with stipend", and the PhD title can have some financial value if you play it right. But more than 3 years of industry experience? Probably not.).

[Norset]

delete, sorry

[Hencredible Casanova]

Sabra got banned? What did I miss? He was a damn good poster.

[Aliblahba]

(05-24-2013 10:08 AM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

Sabra got banned? What did I miss? He was a damn good poster.

Ditto.