[Prosal]

(05-10-2013 10:52 AM)Ben Akiba Wrote:  

13 pluses, 1 minus, 1 neutral.

Just to have a more precise idea of the scene, what about your personal success rate ? (number of dates per day, ratio dates/fucks, number of daily new contacts, average number of dates before shagging, number of GFs you juggled with at the end of your stay, pics of girls you actually fucked, ect)

A place where a skilled guy can't get three or four NEW contacts each day and a stable of four of five GFs after a two weeks and something stay can hardly be categorized as a "paradise" in my book.

[Greek kamaki]

(05-10-2013 11:06 AM)Prosal Wrote:  

(05-10-2013 10:52 AM)Ben Akiba Wrote:  

13 pluses, 1 minus, 1 neutral.

Just to have a more precise idea of the scene, what about your personal success rate ? (number of dates per day, ratio dates/fucks, number of daily new contacts, average number of dates before shagging, number of GFs you juggled with at the end of your stay, pics of girls you actually fucked, ect)

A place where a skilled guy can't get three or four NEW contacts each day and a stable of four of five GFs after a two weeks stay can hardly be categorized as a "paradise" in my book.

This is only possible in Ukraine, Belarus and Poland from my experience and only in selected cities.

[Ben Akiba]

Pierre Wrote:

Bosnia is nice, but I can't imagine how anyone would call it paradise. Sure, the prices are low, people are friendly, the girls are hot by global standards.

Pierre Wrote:

But I can tell you, the Balkans is hard work for getting your end wet, and Bosnia is even harder, why?, a large Muslim population.]

It has nothing to do with religion, but with overall traditional, patriarchal culture. Go on to any Serbian or Croatian town in Bosnia and it will still be difficult. Now, I'm not going to stand here and falsely idealize something. All women are the same. The biology is same, the difference is in culture. They are not slutting or whoring themselves only because they are put in their place by their men (fathers, brothers, bf's, laws, neighborhood gossip, etc.) And that's exactly what we need, is it not? A great 'raw material' (low number of sex partners, respect to her men/tradition, willingness to easily submit) to take over from the domain of culture and mold it further to our liking in the domain of personal relationship.

Pierre Wrote:

Also, people in Sarajevo may not have any idea what Feminism is, but Bosnian women are definitely not feminine - shouting, smoking like chimneys, aggressive behaviour, manky teeth.

It seems like you had experience with more rural specimens. No shame, many had arrived to the city from the neighboring areas after the war. But, any real Sarajevo girl takes pride in her appearance, and is very feminine. But lots do smoke.

Pierre Wrote:

In addition the competition is fierce, big burly handsome guys that have nothing to do but workout and eat 10 piece Cevapcicis all day, whilst living at home with their mothers.

But mostly they have no game, and are good as moody teddy bears. That is actually good.

Pierre Wrote:

In terms of getting laid, Bosnia is way down the scale. The prices are the same in many Ukrainian cities for example, but in Ukraine the competition is barely above zero, and feminism is off the scale

I should have prefaced all my postings about Sarajevo, Bosnia with a big, bold disclaimer that it is a great EE place to setup camp for a few months, particularly if one is tired of FSU industrial shitholes.

So here I go:

Dear manosphere travelers, to the extent that you maybe care of finding that special one (however cringe-worthy it sounds), feel free to come to Sarajevo ONLY to pursue LTR prospects. Do not come, and I repeat, do not come just for the traditional gaming, because there may not be any.

I will drill this distinction from now on.

[Ben Akiba]

Prices: (posted in euro equivalents)

Centrally located 1-bedroom apartment in the city core:
150-300 euros per month (6 months+ rentals).

Centrally located studio or 1-bedroom apartment in the city core (short visits):
10-30 per night.

Youth hostels and fancy hotels:
10-100 per night.

Food and drinks (store):

Loaf of bread 0.50
Milk 0.50
2L of bottled water 0.50
2L of bottled beer: 1.50

Food and drinks (restaurants & coffee shops):

Bowl of soup 1.50
Salad (with main meal) 1.50
Pizza 2.00-5.00
Big Mac 2.50
Grilled sausage bits 3.00-4.00
Steak 3.00-5.00

Coffee 1.00
Designer coffee 1.50
0.2L juice 1.50-2.00
Cola 1.50-2.00
Beer 1.50-2.00

Taxis:

0.50 per kilometer

Menu snapshot (1 km = 0.50 eu):
   

[GameTheory]

would learning Croatian help in BiH ???

[gadabout]

I spent a considerable amount of time in Bosnia. Be careful about declaring it paradise. Admittedly I was with a girl so I wasn't actually approaching, but I did go out most nights. I was in with a good crowd and it is probably one of the best places for English speaking in the Balkans and people are friendly and recepetive, however I cannot see anyone really killing it over there. Perhaps you could wangle your way in with a social circle and focus on one girl but it's not like you can just walk into into a bar and pick the hottest girl to take home. Its a tight knit community and I cannot imagine girls being particulary open to ONS or short term flings. So yeah I guess if you are prepared to spend a decent amount of time there fine but it's still a pretty fucked up place and personally I'd rather be somewhere more comfortable where I can enjoy a bit more than just a bit of fluff.

[scotian]

Ben Akiba, this is an excellent data sheet a big +1 from me!

[Prosal]

(05-10-2013 06:49 PM)gadabout Wrote:  

I spent a considerable amount of time in Bosnia. Be careful about declaring it paradise. Admittedly I was with a girl so I wasn't actually approaching, but I did go out most nights. I was in with a good crowd and it is probably one of the best places for English speaking in the Balkans and people are friendly and recepetive, however I cannot see anyone really killing it over there. Perhaps you could wangle your way in with a social circle and focus on one girl but it's not like you can just walk into into a bar and pick the hottest girl to take home. Its a tight knit community and I cannot imagine girls being particulary open to ONS or short term flings. So yeah I guess if you are prepared to spend a decent amount of time there fine but it's still a pretty fucked up place and personally I'd rather be somewhere more comfortable where I can enjoy a bit more than just a bit of fluff.

Never been in Bosnia, but I feel that you are totally right. As in Uzbekistan (or in Caucasus for that matter), it's surely a very marriage-orientated and family-orientated traditional society, and women act accordingly. If I was seeking a wife (which I don't lol), I'd choose one of those genealogies. They are honest, passionate and loyal, and take pride in being good women, wifes and mothers. That said, i think the advantage of Tashkent vs Sarajavo is that in Tashkent there is a very important russian community, and russians are ...well, russians, i.e horny and wild (smilie).

[scotian]

(05-11-2013 02:51 AM)Prosal Wrote:  

(05-10-2013 06:49 PM)gadabout Wrote:  

I spent a considerable amount of time in Bosnia. Be careful about declaring it paradise. Admittedly I was with a girl so I wasn't actually approaching, but I did go out most nights. I was in with a good crowd and it is probably one of the best places for English speaking in the Balkans and people are friendly and recepetive, however I cannot see anyone really killing it over there. Perhaps you could wangle your way in with a social circle and focus on one girl but it's not like you can just walk into into a bar and pick the hottest girl to take home. Its a tight knit community and I cannot imagine girls being particulary open to ONS or short term flings. So yeah I guess if you are prepared to spend a decent amount of time there fine but it's still a pretty fucked up place and personally I'd rather be somewhere more comfortable where I can enjoy a bit more than just a bit of fluff.

Never been in Bosnia, but I feel that you are totally right. As in Uzbekistan (or in Caucasus for that matter), it's surely a very marriage-orientated and family-orientated traditional society, and women act accordingly. If I was seeking a wife (which I don't lol), I'd choose one of those genealogies. They are honest, passionate and loyal, and take pride in being good women, wifes and mothers. That said, i think the advantage of Tashkent vs Sarajavo is that in Tashkent there is a very important russian community, and russians are ...well, russians, i.e horny and wild (smilie).

I'm in Phuket Thailand right now and this place is full of Russians, not just hookers either, a lot of families here on vacation too. I was never around many Russians until I came to Thailand but my observations are that a good number of them are quite plain looking (like any other group of women I suppose) but the really attractive ones are fucking hot! What still boggles my mind is how so many of these young hot Russian girls I see with an ugly looking Russian dude with a hairy back and beer gut.

[Ben Akiba]

(05-10-2013 06:49 PM)gadabout Wrote:  

Be careful about declaring it paradise.. it's not like you can just walk into into a bar and pick the hottest girl to take home. Its a tight knit community and I cannot imagine girls being particulary open to ONS or short term flings.

I don't get this,

the manosphere men lament the loss of traditional woman, but when they find a country choke full of them (in the middle of Europe no less), they complain they are not slutty enough and thus we are unable to drown them with our ONS cocks fast enough?

[Alexander]

Dear manosphere travelers, to the extent that you maybe care of finding that special one (however cringe-worthy it sounds), feel free to come to Sarajevo ONLY to pursue LTR prospects. Do not come, and I repeat, do not come just for the traditional gaming, because there may not be any.

Well you killed it there for me, i'm more interested in copious amounts of sex with multiple women than finding a girlfriend

[Ben Akiba]

(05-11-2013 09:33 AM)Alexander Wrote:  

Dear manosphere travelers, to the extent that you maybe care of finding that special one (however cringe-worthy it sounds), feel free to come to Sarajevo ONLY to pursue LTR prospects. Do not come, and I repeat, do not come just for the traditional gaming, because there may not be any.

Well you killed it there for me, i'm more interested in copious amounts of sex with multiple women than finding a girlfriend

All good. That's why we have different destinations for different purposes. Colombia and the FSU for above average beauties, Japan for exotics, Thailand for shoring, America for "copious amounts of sex with multiple women", etc. etc.

So how about Bosnia for wives?

That is if you like them Slavic, European, traditional, passionate, and largely unspoiled by the ills of contemporary western theory and practice.

[Pierre]

Pierre Wrote:

In addition the competition is fierce, big burly handsome guys that have nothing to do but workout and eat 10 piece Cevapcicis all day, whilst living at home with their mothers.
But mostly they have no game, and are good as moody teddy bears. That is actually good.

A common western gamer's misconception, the guys don't need to run around like a horny Ferret approaching all the time, it's all about social circles. Balkan guys like to take a relaxed approach to getting laid, it's all done behind the scenes, they're rotating multiple girls at the same time.

[Ben Akiba]

(05-11-2013 09:46 AM)Pierre Wrote:  

Pierre Wrote:

In addition the competition is fierce, big burly handsome guys that have nothing to do but workout and eat 10 piece Cevapcicis all day, whilst living at home with their mothers.
But mostly they have no game, and are good as moody teddy bears. That is actually good.

A common western gamer's misconception, the guys don't need to run around like a horny Ferret approaching all the time, it's all about social circles. Balkan guys like to take a relaxed approach to getting laid, it's all done behind the scenes, they're rotating multiple girls at the same time.

Whatever they are doing they must be doing it right since their women aren't putting out to horny ferrets.

   
   
   
   
   

[Ben Akiba]

   
   
   
   
   
   
   

[beta_plus]

Thanks for the shout out, Ben Akiba. I'm really glad people liked that datasheet.

I will say this about the bus to Sarajevo. If you take it from Dubrovnik to Sarajevo, the stretch from Mostar to Sarajevo is one of the most beautiful places that I have ever seen. It looks like paradise in early May.

[Ben Akiba]

(05-11-2013 10:35 AM)beta_plus Wrote:  

the stretch from Mostar to Sarajevo is one of the most beautiful places that I have ever seen. It looks like paradise in early May.

Bosnia's countryside is a bit like EE version of Switzerland, except pretty much untouched by commercialization.



And comparisons to Tashkent aren't exactly accurate even though I understand where the sentiments are coming from. Still, Tashkent is in Asian wilderness, Bosnia in European 'wilderness'. Important difference. Not only re: culture, but geography. Tashkent is in arid climate, Bosnia in lush continental, and borders the Mediterranean. That determines your other options.

Four hour drive from Tashkent you are here


Four hour drive from Sarajevo you are here


And here (when was the last time you saw ribs on the American chick?)




And where you can choose between tradition


or modernity

[Prosal]

Just out of curiosity, I checked the 2012 Mercer Worldwide Cost of Living Survey to see where Sarajavo was ranked.

Holy shit, it's ranked 201 out of 214 cities. Tashkent, which is the cheapest city where I have ever been to and where drinks, restaurants, taxis, ect are a steal is only 192 in the ranking.

I am not stingy, but admittedly, being in a place where everything is a bargain adds to my travel pleasures.

That said, Belgrade seems dirt cheap also.

   

[Prosal]

(05-11-2013 11:22 AM)Ben Akiba Wrote:  

Four hour drive from Tashkent you are here

Or here (wink). Real GF by the way - just "not that skanky" by uzbek standarts.

As a side note, the wonders of Bosnia are certainly indubitable, but IMO culturally can't compete with Khiva or Samarkand (or any of the Silk Road cities for that matter).

That said, I agree that Sarajevo sounds interesting, even if "paradise" is IMO and with all due respect an overstatement.

   

[Ben Akiba]

(05-11-2013 11:31 AM)Prosal Wrote:  

Just out of curiosity, I checked the 2012 Mercer Worldwide Cost of Living Survey to see where Sarajavo was ranked.

Holy shit, it's ranked 201 out of 214 cities. Tashkent, which is the cheapest city where I have ever been to and where drinks, restaurants, taxis, ect are a steal is only 192 in the ranking.

I am not stingy, but admittedly, being in a place where everything is a bargain adds to my travel pleasures.

I see that some of us are finally paying attention

The whole point of this thread is to open eyes to the incredible value Sarajevo represents.

We are talking Europe in 2013.

It's not any one single thing, it's bunch of things that oh so add up.

Take the challenge by checking your own score sheet.

Where else in Europe today can you:

1. Go about your day peacefully as a foreigner in the state that will not shake you down.

2. Live in a city with clean air, one that is very livable, but also full of history and culture (and these are not just empty slogans).

3. Find furnished studio apartments for 100 euros per month.

4. Eat freshly-made pizza in restaurant for 2 euros.

5. Drink cappuccino or beer for 1.5 euros.

6. Board taxis that will drive you for 0.50 euros per kilometer.

7. Easily struck up friendships with friendly, welcoming, partying people who will not be breathing down your neck to scam you (shout to SA, FSU, SEA) and will instead keep your social calendar full.

8. Attend parties and events that are certifiably awesome.

9. Meet women who are traditional, have low cock mileage, and are readily (and happily I might add) submissive because their culture expects it. Women who are good looking, but will still charm your socks off with substance. Women who will want you if you give them real reason to want you (what reasons could backpackers and sex tourists give them?).

10. Communicate with those same women not by iPhone language app (hello SEA), or Tarzan English (hello SA), but in fairly good to excellent English, and about topics that don't involve mentioning the weather, the latest Lady Gaga video, or her ailing sister who needs money for operation.

Wake up men.

Damn, I should expand a bit on these and pen the ROK article about it.

[Ben Akiba]

Prosal Wrote:

Or here (wink). Real GF by the way - just "not that skanky" by uzbek standarts.

She looks nice, but...

Prosal Wrote:

As a side note, the wonders of Bosnia are certainly indubitable, but IMO culturally can't compete with Khiva or Samarkand (or any of the Silk Road cities for that matter).

Khiva and Samarkand are Marco Polo territory. Sarajevo keeps us in Europe, safe, sound, relaxed, hair slicked back, with swag so fresh.

[jimukr104]

(05-11-2013 12:28 PM)Ben Akiba Wrote:  

(05-11-2013 11:31 AM)Prosal Wrote:  

Just out of curiosity, I checked the 2012 Mercer Worldwide Cost of Living Survey to see where Sarajavo was ranked.

Holy shit, it's ranked 201 out of 214 cities. Tashkent, which is the cheapest city where I have ever been to and where drinks, restaurants, taxis, ect are a steal is only 192 in the ranking.

I am not stingy, but admittedly, being in a place where everything is a bargain adds to my travel pleasures.

I see that some of us are finally paying attention

The whole point of this thread is to open eyes to the incredible value Sarajevo represents.

We are talking Europe in 2013.

It's not any one single thing, it's bunch of things that oh so add up.

Take the challenge by checking your own score sheet.

Where else in Europe today can you:

1. Go about your day peacefully as a foreigner in the state that will not shake you down.

2. Live in a city with clean air, one that is very livable, but also full of history and culture (and these are not just empty slogans).

3. Find furnished studio apartments for 100 euros per month.

4. Eat freshly-made pizza in restaurant for 2 euros.

5. Drink cappuccino or beer for 1.5 euros.

6. Board taxis that will drive you for 0.50 euros per kilometer.

7. Easily struck up friendships with friendly, welcoming, partying people who will not be breathing down your neck to scam you (shout to SA, FSU, SEA) and will instead keep your social calendar full.

8. Attend parties and events that are certifiably awesome.

9. Meet women who are traditional, have low cock mileage, and are readily (and happily I might add) submissive because their culture expects it. Women who are good looking, but will still charm your socks off with substance. Women who will want you if you give them real reason to want you (what reasons could backpackers and sex tourists give them?).

10. Communicate with those same women not by iPhone language app (hello SEA), or Tarzan English (hello SA), but in fairly good to excellent English, and about topics that don't involve mentioning the weather, the latest Lady Gaga video, or her ailing sister who needs money for operation.

Wake up men.

Damn, I should expand a bit on these and pen the ROK article about it.

lol, funny most of those things you can do in NYC for same price. European pizza vs Brooklyn pizza, no contest. We also have loads of traditional people here.

[Partizan]

Great report Ben and big thumbs up from me. I was in Bosnia but did not visit Sarajevo. I visited Mostar and loved it there. What did strike me is that social circle there is key and Bosnian women while amazing are very conservative as they have male family members to contend with. Its a very masculine society and the women are constantly watched.

I preferred Serbia to be honest. Better food, hospitality, friendlier and much more cosmopolitan (liberal) especially in Novi Sad and Belgrade.

[Ben Akiba]

Partizan Wrote:

What did strike me is that social circle there is key and Bosnian women while amazing are very conservative as they have male family members to contend with. Its a very masculine society and the women are constantly watched.

Exactly. Which is perfect for LTR (which is what I'm really getting at), because she comes premade or prepackaged whatever you want to call it. You take her like that and make you your wife. It's like trained dog. She only changes owners, you don't need to teach her new rules.

Partizan Wrote:

I preferred Serbia to be honest. Better food, hospitality, friendlier and much more cosmopolitan (liberal) especially in Novi Sad and Belgrade.

Serbia is definitely more liberal. Maybe too much so since that brings other corresponding issues because "liberal" isn't a one-way street. Serb girls, while not easy, are way sluttier than Bosnian, and for one example "half of Belgrade" girls are seeking sponsors. There's none of that in Sarajevo, perhaps because of also its small size as well.

Which brings me to.. some RVF members (was it Bojangles) complained of the 'fishbowl effect' in Sarajevo. The feeling that they are always watched. I wouldn't call that important even if true because unlike in some other countries nobody gains anything by really watching you. I just think the city core's small size accentuates that perhaps weird feeling. But that too is a two-way street. If you are so visible, then work on your local celebrity. Become so known that everyone knows you. Like in the King of Warsaw story. Make the city be yours. That will actually open up more doors. The more people know (about) you the more they trust you, including women.

[chamele0n]

Ben Akiba Wrote:

Quote:

Dear manosphere travelers, to the extent that you maybe care of finding that special one (however cringe-worthy it sounds), feel free to come to Sarajevo ONLY to pursue LTR prospects. Do not come, and I repeat, do not come just for the traditional gaming, because there may not be any.

What's the point of going there again?

Partizan Wrote:

Quote:

What did strike me is that social circle there is key and Bosnian women while amazing are very conservative as they have male family members to contend with. Its a very masculine society and the women are constantly watched.

Quote:

Its a tight knit community and I cannot imagine girls being particulary open to ONS or short term flings. So yeah I guess if you are prepared to spend a decent amount of time there fine but it's still a pretty fucked up place and personally I'd rather be somewhere more comfortable where I can enjoy a bit more than just a bit of fluff.

Quote:

What did strike me is that social circle there is key and Bosnian women while amazing are very conservative as they have male family members to contend with. Its a very masculine society and the women are constantly watched.

Bosnia sounds like a sad sad place to go. Most women naturally are not polygamous as it is and are a pain in the ass to score with. Last thing we need is their society and male douchebag cockblockers watching over them making sure they are too scared of their family to meet new guys that happen to travel there. Countries like this are the last place on earth I will ever drag my a** to.

Ben Akiba wrote:

Quote:

the manosphere men lament the loss of traditional woman, but when they find a country choke full of them (in the middle of Europe no less), they complain they are not slutty enough and thus we are unable to drown them with our ONS cocks fast enough?

According to OP, a good woman should not meet many guys and have sex. You think you are that special they'll just make that exception for you and start dating you out of all people? You'll just be blown out like the rest of the guys trying to score with her. If you want prude girls, no need to travel to Bosnia from the good ole puritan US of A. If you are looking to find a LTR or marry there are other forums for that, this forum is about scoring as easily and effortlessly as possible.