[cardguy]

I think 'The Facebook Generation' (I am 31 myself and not a member of Facebook - but it is a useful shorthand) are really quite radical.

It might be a mistake to read too much in to one's own circumstances. But I feel with the invention of the internet - people no longer care about status goods.

There is so much fun to be had from chilling out and enjoying life. That the idea of working long hours just to have a nicer car and a better house than your friends is now seen as passe.

I live in the UK - so I am not sure if this way of thinking has entered the US. But I am convinced the young people of today have radically different priorites and desires than those of previous generations.

Indeed - alot of the 'hippy/idealistic' thinking of the late 60's is more of a reality now than ever before.

To put it bluntly. In alot of social circles I see - only 'losers' care anymore about making lots of monet just so they can be admired for their wealth and success. That way of thinking now seems outdated.

We seem to be on the edge of a post-materialistic age. And I think future historians will look back on this period as being a radical time. Almost the start of Capitalism 3.0 (with the first two stages being the industrial revolution and the mass consumer revolution).

I think it is pretty fun that this way of thinking is taking off. For me - I have no higher desires than a roof above my head, some books and some nice food. Everything else is ultimately just a tool to try and impress somebody else.

I would be interested if others have come across this way of thinking? It seems to be creeping into the mainstream media. But I still feel it is little reported:

http://theumlaut.com/2013/04/01/keynes-was-right/

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/08/busine...d=all&_r=0

Alot of this links into MGTOW (Men Going There Own Way). Since most status goods that men kill themselves trying to buy are ultimately for the benefit of impressing the wimminz. I also feel the success of The Four Hour Work-Week was an indicator of a wider desire for downsizing.

Once you lose that - you lose much of your motivation to earn more.

To quote Aristotle Onassis - "If women didn't exist, all the money in the world would have no meaning."

The concept of Conspicuous Consumption is an interesting one. And Thornstein Veblen wrote a brilliant book discussing it a hundred years ago.

And what is interesting is that previous ideas of conspicuous consumption were based around being men of leisure (which is why the fad for gardening and country sports took off). And I feel in this new age of capitalism - people now base their self-worth on working smart rather than working hard. Particularly if those working hard are just purchasing the goods which they have being brainwashed into buying.

In terms of capitalism. It can be thought of as taking The Red Pill...

[nando]

I read and outlined that book you're talking about. There was an amazing paragraph about the growth of feminism back in the 1890s.

Will post when i find it.

[zacb]

Hmmm, I see something similar, but I don't think it is really idealism. I see it more as "we ar epoor, and will always be poor, so forget about dreaming about idle things". To me, I see a tad bitof idealism when it comes to gay marriage, an dto a lesser extent with pot, but as far as having any social upheveal over and issue like the ag eof consent or over the warfare state, I don't see it. Maybe I am wrong, bu tI don'tquite see it here, in the states.

[nando]

"She is petted by her husband, the most devoted and hard-working husbands in the world....She is the superior of her husband in education, medical attention, and needs. Yet she is not satisfied...the Anglo-Saxon 'new woman' is the most ridiculous production of modern times, and destined to be the most ghastly failure of the century"

oh man. i've never lol'd so hard inside a starbucks surrounded by the very women he was describing.

[Pesopolis]

Experiences are the new status symbol amongst Facebook users. Who has more exotic "check in" posts from airports, more " cool and unique" pictures etc.
Status symbols used to bring attention which can now be achieved by other ( attention whoring) means. Money still helps in this.

[Vitriol]

Look at this "new" and "cutting edge" research as reported by the geniuses at NY Beta Times:

Quote:

One major finding is that spending money for an experience — concert tickets, French lessons, sushi-rolling classes, a hotel room in Monaco — produces longer-lasting satisfaction than spending money on plain old stuff.

...

Current research suggests that, unlike consumption of material goods, spending on leisure and services typically strengthens social bonds, which in turn helps amplify happiness. (Academics are already in broad agreement that there is a strong correlation between the quality of people’s relationships and their happiness; hence, anything that promotes stronger social bonds has a good chance of making us feel all warm and fuzzy.)

Wow, you mean constantly buying a bunch of plastic shit isn't going to make you happy? Who would have ever guessed!

These are really sad times we live in if people have to rediscover that the name stamped on their clothing isn't going to produce long term happiness, and that investing in things like travel or personal development is better than buying something that will collect dust in a closet.

[dvjackson]

If you ask me it feels like just the opposite situation, that young people today are rejecting the "slacker culture" of the 90s that was portrayed in movies like American Beauty and Office Space, and are going back to the traditional values of careers and financial success and homemaking.

[Sharky]

I would argue that age has alot to do with it. The idealism of youth tends to push people toward "higher" values. But reality hits around age 30 and by 40 you just want a beach house in Malibu.

Remember that the Boomers came out of the gate with all their flowers and free love and crash landed on not one, not two, but THREE major economic crashes brought on by their rapacious naked greed (S&L scandal, dotcom bubble, housing crisis).

I think if we're honest with ourselves, our values change alot over time. I'm a couple of dry humps away from 40 and I know I'm a different guy than I was at 20. So don't put too much stock in what some college sophomore, who's been deluged by leftist professors for 2 years, says about his economic values. Most of them will grow up, and the sharp/talented ones will discover that Gordon Gecko's creed rings true: Greed (for lack of a better word) is good.

[Genghis Khan]

If this is really true, then why do I see all my college-educated peers with the latest iPhones, Macs, brand-new cars etc? I don't think the conspicuous spending era is over at all. Most people will probably still spend money left and right. Some might realize there's another option, but when I talk to my friends...yeah none of them really seem interested in giving up their shit.

[RawGod]

Whenever the economy is poor, it becomes cool to be frugal. Then when the economy gets back rolling, conspicuous consumption is back in. Granted, the economic downturn since 2008 is a more fundamental one than just another recession, but cultural attitudes towards consumption are generally just making a virtue out of necessity.

[el mechanico]

Or in other words were paying for the Chinese to have a middle class and can't afford cool toys any more. Were also policed too much to enjoy them.

[cardguy]

I don't think of iPhones as being conspicous consumption in the way that an expensive car is. Indeed - iPhones are not that much more expensive than most other smartphones.

[thegmanifesto]

(04-01-2013 11:44 AM)cardguy Wrote:  

I think 'The Facebook Generation' (I am 31 myself and not a member of Facebook - but it is a useful shorthand) are really quite radical.

It might be a mistake to read too much in to one's own circumstances. But I feel with the invention of the internet - people no longer care about status goods.

April Fools Post!

Yeah, the younger generation doesn't care at all about gadgets.

I never see younger guys and girls with cell phones.

They also never have "apps" either.

[Sharky]

(04-01-2013 08:47 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(04-01-2013 11:44 AM)cardguy Wrote:  

I think 'The Facebook Generation' (I am 31 myself and not a member of Facebook - but it is a useful shorthand) are really quite radical.

It might be a mistake to read too much in to one's own circumstances. But I feel with the invention of the internet - people no longer care about status goods.

April Fools Post!

Yeah, the younger generation doesn't care at all about gadgets.

I never see younger guys and girls with cell phones.

They also never have "apps" either.

How long could a kid today live without his X-box and flat screen? Or his $300 jeans? Or those $70 faggoty Lief Garret haircuts they all have now.

[Ovid]

I see plenty of chicks still very happily carrying Louis Vuitton purses, plenty of dudes wearing watches that cost thousands of dollars, and the local Lexux/BMW/Audi/Mercedes dealerships show no signs of closing. To adorn yourself or try to live a more lavish lifestyle than your neighbor is part of human nature. That said, everybody tries to put the best face they can on their circumstances. If they can't afford a Mercedes, they're too proud to admit they want one -they'll condemn 'senseless materialism' and try to convince themselves that they are really happy with their old Chevy Cavalier.

Moreover, since the French Revolution, really ostentatious displays of wealth have been considered gauche. (Too much associations with the old monarchy and aristocracy.) Instead of wearing a suit with sapphire and emerald buttons, guys nowadays give control of their money to their wives, who spend it on gourmet coffee pots and kitchen-aid stand mixers, so they can one-up their mothers and their coworkers. Everyone dresses very shoddily these days, because of our egalitarian sensibilities and the institutionalized hippy culture, so among the younger demographic who don't have mortgages yet, boys would rather spend their money on video games, and girls would rather pat themselves on the back and outdo their friends by going on some spiritual journey of enlightenment and international aid to Nicaragua, where they can feel good about themselves for handing out soup or whatever.

[Lazarus]

I see it going two different ways, based on history.

Since you compared them to the 60s generation (and if they are the equivalent of the hippies) then I see the facebook generation doing exactly what the hippies did and selling out and becoming the most entitled, greedy generation ever (i.e, the boomers).

However, based on civilisation cycles the facebook/millenials are the future great generation. They are coming to age during the biggest Depression the world has ever faced (and it isn't fully here yet), everyone considers them slackers and lazy fucks (just as the greatest generation was considered by their elders before they went and won WWII) and when the time comes these kids will surprise everybody.

[EisenBarde]

I don't see it. What generation before kept the freaking aluminium sticker on the bill of their ballcaps?

If anything, the new conspicuous consumption is upper middle class white girls playing "poor"

[thegmanifesto]

Quote:

cardguy Wrote:
I think 'The Facebook Generation' (I am 31 myself and not a member of Facebook - but it is a useful shorthand) are really quite radical.

Yeah, the only thing they are "radical" about is being the worst generation yet with "Conspicuous Consumption".

[Bad Hussar]

No, I don't see it. Status is permanently ingrained into the human psyche. You can play around a little bit with how exactly to gain that status, but there is no way that between now and the heat death of the universe that human beings will not be obsessed with status. And I'm including Buddhist monks and Indian Swami's etc. in that.

You can sort-of have a situation were being poor is cool and provides a certain type of status, but if you dig deeper in 99.9% of the cases the person seeking status this way is not actually poor. He's just another middle class kid with the typical middle class neuroses. Or to be a bit crude: "Wankster, not Gangster." People who are actually poor have a different raft of problems and their own ways to seek status.

We all have a tendency to rationalise our personal predicaments. (IMHO this type of rationalisation is, on balance, healthy, but that's a separate debate). So for example a guy who is unathletic and arty will often become a hipster, rather than a jock. It is the best way he can compete in the world. And obviously the reverse is also true. The natural athletic guy becomes a jock or bodybuilder etc. And each will swear to high heaven that their way of gaining status is the "best" way or "the way of the future". And they are all wrong. Every last one of them. There are (more than) 101 ways to skin a cat.

So, someone who is not able to make much money at any specific time will start to seek status in other ways. It's only natural. It doesn't mean that people who seek status in material possessions or the experiences that money can buy are "wrong". They are just different.

[Genghis Khan]

Maybe I should've clarified. It's not that they have iPhones per se as much as they buy the latest iPhone every single time it comes out. One of my buddies has literally had every single version of the iPhone, despite the fact he's maxed out his credit cards.

[Captain Ahab]

I think there is a trend for less=more and renouncing materialism in some segements of Generation Y (hence Hipsters). I myself am akin to that philosophy;however, I understand the power of money and materialism and recognize those who use it to advance themselves.

Sadly, a lot of the consumption is based on insecurity. Never forget, you can drive a Honda and a Mercedes to the same place.

I feel that buying a bunch of shit to impress people will only attract the wrong kind of people (materialist/gold diggers/etc).

I think living simply gives me more genuine connections.

[augen sehen]

Just think of how girls love cute and imaginative and spontaneous dates compared to a boring dinner at the most expensive restaurant in town and you'll see that people (not only women) crave experiences today.

A ride in a BMW just isn't going to cut it when you can take her mountain biking through the Andes instead. Plus a lot of women don't date guys they want to marry, so you having a good herb job and a nice herb car doesn't carry as much cachet as it used to.

[Sombro]

Wanting to show higher status is human nature.

It may manifest in different forms, but it is not going away.

[Kickb]

My friends that made a lot of money in the import export business tell me money ain't shit and they are more about helping people.

[Caligula]

I see plenty of young girls posting pictures of their purchases online.