[Asaxon]

Growing up in a traditional family, I always took my mother's and grandmother's position that men are untidy and dirty and that women like to clean, wash, keep things in order, as gospel. I tend to be slightly messy myself.
Having dated and been to a few dozen houses of western females I am still astonished how messy, outright dirty ( bathroom!) and cluttered a lot of their residences are. On average I would say that my male friends keep their places in much better shape. Caveat: Visitors or holidays. Most girls will try to create a clean surface impression when expecting strangers or hosting parties.
Have any of you observed similar patterns? I wonder if there is a biological basis ( men like to be more rational and systematic), if it is due to women hoarding more items that clog up a place or if it is social conditioning ( princess is not used to taking care of her own mess).

[n0000]

Yes, I think there is a biological basis. Women are much more susceptible to infection and disease resulting from lack of cleanliness. The army takes its women in from the field for showers every 3 days because of this. Guys on the other hand can pretty much be just fine with only baby wipes for extended periods of time if necessary. It makes sense that girls would naturally be inclined to be cleaner. Girls also seem to want to decorate and beautify their living areas much more than men do. That being said there is such a disconnect between the baby boomer generation and the younger ones. I have seen multiple cases of girls I know who cannot cook even though their mom/grandmothers are great cooks and go so far as to make homemade broth regularly. Its like the entire generation collectively just didn't teach their kids skills necessary for them to be happy and healthy and not get obscenely fat. I still don't know how this happened, there are probably a number of factors at play. The cleanliness thing most likely goes hand in hand with this. It is a fatality of this generational gap in basic living skills. I definitely agree with you though, when I run into a messy girl it is such a turnoff.

I have taught some of these girls how to cook basic stuff like fried eggs and I catch them with google open to "how to slice a tomato". These are upper-middle class girls whose parents are well off but are sad because the diet they eat is full of processed food.

[Kitsune]

If they are feminine they are.
Their homes are extensions of their selves. They should want to get dressed up and look nice naturally, but they don't always. Make them compete with other females though, and they'll try and look their best and run their houses the best. That's the natural way of things.

At least, until recently where they think that going out in converse with skrillex haircuts is cool, as is letting their 6 cat family leave their hairs all over her sofa. That is the new feminine, guys!

[Jackhammer]

Just look at any woman's car. My girlfriend has fucking bags of trash from food we ate months ago still on the damn floor of her car. Add this to the random pieces of clothes and empty water bottles. Not to mention, any cleaning staff at every job I've worked in has always said that while the men's restroom is gross, the women's restroom is a war-zone.

[Lemmo]

(03-17-2013 05:00 AM)Asaxon Wrote:  

Growing up in a traditional family, I always took my mother's and grandmother's position that men are untidy and dirty and that women like to clean, wash, keep things in order, as gospel. I tend to be slightly messy myself.
Having dated and been to a few dozen houses of western females I am still astonished how messy, outright dirty ( bathroom!) and cluttered a lot of their residences are. On average I would say that my male friends keep their places in much better shape. Caveat: Visitors or holidays. Most girls will try to create a clean surface impression when expecting strangers or hosting parties.
Have any of you observed similar patterns? I wonder if there is a biological basis ( men like to be more rational and systematic), if it is due to women hoarding more items that clog up a place or if it is social conditioning ( princess is not used to taking care of her own mess).

Yeah, it has been my experience that guys tend to be cleaner than woman. It just seems to be part of men being more organized and systematic. My circle is late 20s and 30s professionals so maybe it is different in other demographics.

[augen sehen]

Western women (and westernized women) seem to take a sort of pride in being complete fucking slobs. I dunno why that is, but I've noticed that women who take pride in being feminists also take pride in not being able to cook or maintain a tidy dwelling. I think its because they think of it as slavery or something.

Meanwhile foreign women, mostly from Asian countries, are always cleaning or tidying up.

[liberman]

(03-17-2013 07:52 AM)augen sehen Wrote:  

Western women (and westernized women) seem to take a sort of pride in being complete fucking slobs. I dunno why that is, but I've noticed that women who take pride in being feminists also take pride in not being able to cook or maintain a tidy dwelling. I think its because they think of it as slavery or something.

Meanwhile foreign women, mostly from Asian countries, are always cleaning or tidying up.

The only girls my age I have meet that can cook a decent meal are asian, specifically from Taiwan and Japan. I have told some of these girls that they can cook far better than all of the western girls I have meet, they say they have been taught by their family on how to cook properly as it is an important life skill.
Western women simply are not taught this by their parents this or else feel that they don't need to cook or as augen sehen wrote because they think of it as slavery or something.

[Blaster]

While I think women may have more of a nesting instinct that may influence attitudes towards cleanliness, especially a clean home day to day, in terms of being naturally more tidy I have no idea and certainly have seen plenty of evidence to suggest otherwise.

I've also noticed that different people of either gender tend to value different aspects of cleanliness and orderliness. Eg are your closets clean and orderly, or is that where you throw everything in a giant pile to make the rest of the place look clean?

[Ovid]

A decent woman will be cleaner than a typical man, in my experience, but a typical man will be cleaner than most modern Western women, whose mothers were too busy working to teach them how to cook, and who grew up living in materialistic clutter and were taught that success in life means becoming a successful career woman who can hire a maid.

Princess can get away with this because she's pretty, has a vagina, and can make cute pouting faces. If the pussy is good and you don't have to spend every day there, it does not matter if her apartment is messy. If men were not completely whipped, these girls would be in for a rude awakening after they married. Looks fade, and if a woman has no other charms and skills, she is worthless.

[Asaxon]

One trend I have observed is the disconnect between "cover" and "behind the scenes": Women in my demographic (professional 25-30) like to dress up and present their homes in an excessively clean way for special occasions. In order to accomplish this they literally throw everything in closets or in one case a pile and throw a rug over it. Then 2 days of frantic cleaning begin before the "event". Afterwards the vaccum is left to rest for months on end.

My personal highlight: In my exes mother's house excess trash had been collected in a spare room. A van had to be rented to remove close to a hundred bags, there were maggots and months worth of cat piss and feces behind the mountain of filth as the animals had used it as a bathroom. The floor was literally destroyed. One year later (next party) the scenario repeated. This was a woman who would never leave her house without 2-3 hours of makeup and hair "work".

[teh_skeeze]

I don't think women are neater so much as they have a higher standard of what is clean. In general I think single men are neater than single women in the west. This is because single men do everything they possibly can to raise their value so they can get laid. Western women on the other hand can get away with being complete slobs because the gender ratio is in their favor. Our dicks don't care that every piece of clothing she owns is on the floor and the dishes haven't been done in months. At least not for tonight anyway.

[BoiBoi]

No, they aint. I was roommates with 3 girls during college and 2 of them were bigger slobs than me. Its nuture, not nature on this one.

[Acute Angle]

Back in the 80's I lived in a student house for four years. It had 8 rooms and I must have shared with about 25 different people, at least half girls. I observed no consistent sex differences in cleanliness and tidiness. Some of the guys were pigs, but so were some of the girls. By the second year I took charge and instituted a cleaning rota for the communal areas. The girls would try to duck out of their duties more than the guys. But I ruled that house with a rod of iron, haha. That place was clean.

After I left I went back to clear up some trouble with the phone bill. One of the girls, bless her, had tried to put the telephone line in my name and stick me with the bill, even though I didn't live there any more. Anyway, the house was a tip; someone had bought a puppy and its shit and piss were all over the hallways, the kitchen; the washing up was piled high in the sink; what a sad fucking mess.

And it's not about intelligence. The cleverest woman I ever met - really bright and witty - lived in a pigsty. I never met her again, despite having had deep and hilarious chats online for months previously. Guess I'm a bit anal-retentive, haha.

[Timoteo]

I don't believe there's a difference in cleanliness between the genders. Women will try to convince you that they're cleaner, because they dress up and put on perfume, etc. However, if you see their living spaces, it isn't the case. The stories of what the women's bathrooms are like in the workplace, and how nasty they are, is shocking. Even the bathrooms in their homes/apartments can be foul. There may have been a generation when there was a distinct difference (mainly because it was a woman's job to pick after men - some cultures are still that way), I think women have gotten sloppier, and men have gotten somewhat neater and cleaner as some metrosexuality has slipped into even the most masculine men. Over time we've met in the middle, so now there isn't much of a gender difference regarding cleanliness.

[UrbanNerd]

I have yet to have a combo of high cleanliness WITH a high attractive rating for a chick....meaning none of my 9's+ were as clean as some of the 7's or 8's.

I cannot explain why...but some of my average chicks (7-ish) were the cleanest.

[porscheguy]

When it comes to their very personal effects such as clothing, women are probably just as clean as men. But it never ceases to amaze me when I see a woman go out and spend a ton of money on some new outfit, spend a few hours getting dressed and made up, and then she'll go and park her ass in a car that is pure filth. I have never been in a woman's car that was as clean as mine, and my cars aren't particularly clean, I just make an effort to remove trash from them immediately.

[bojangles]

its just western women who are pigs, older women and foreign women are clean

[guerrilla]

a lot of women have smelly pussies. i definitely wouldnt go so far as to say that all women are naturally clean.

[Moreless]

(03-17-2013 12:31 PM)Timoteo Wrote:  

I don't believe there's a difference in cleanliness between the genders. Women will try to convince you that they're cleaner, because they dress up and put on perfume, etc. However, if you see their living spaces, it isn't the case. The stories of what the women's bathrooms are like in the workplace, and how nasty they are, is shocking. Even the bathrooms in their homes/apartments can be foul. There may have been a generation when there was a distinct difference (mainly because it was a woman's job to pick after men - some cultures are still that way), I think women have gotten sloppier, and men have gotten somewhat neater and cleaner as some metrosexuality has slipped into even the most masculine men. Over time we've met in the middle, so now there isn't much of a gender difference regarding cleanliness.

This.

I also read somewhere that we all need to be ready for girls to come over. We need our beds made, clean sheets and pillow cases, ice cubes, clean glasses, new toothbrushes, etc.

These are things that set us apart from the average. I know some nights I have not tried as hard to pull because I knew the state of my apartment was crap. I want to fuck my girls, but I also want them to come back because they felt at ease with my homes atmosphere.

Do you guys choose to wear a condemn based on the cleanliness of her house/car?

if it weren't for girls i probably wouldnt clean up at all

[Greek kamaki]

Having seen many girls houses they are very messy.There are exceptions of course but what you see is not pleasant.

[Timoteo]

Also, we need to make a distinction between messy, and just flat-out dirty and/or nasty. If you've got some stuff laying around, and maybe haven't dusted or vacuumed in a little while, that's messy. If you've got spills/beverage rings on the tables, crumbs and old food laying about, and flies buzzing around the kitchen because you haven't emptied the garbage, that's dirty/nasty. If your bedroom smells funky because of dirty clothes laying around or in the hamper forever, that's dirty/nasty. There are two areas of your domicile that simply can't be less than clean - the bathroom and the kitchen. If those two places aren't reasonably clean, you're a nasty fuck. Other areas of the house, particularly your bedroom, can look "lived in," and only required some tidying up to receive company. If you've got to do a full-fledged scrubbing to make it presentable, you're nasty.

[Jules D. McMillan]

No, women are not NATURALLY tidy/clean. They are taught or, in the case of American women, were taught to always maintain a clean environment by their mothers, grandmothers, etc. However, being taught something has nothing to do with nature.

(03-17-2013 05:00 AM)Asaxon Wrote:  

Having dated and been to a few dozen houses of western females I am still astonished how messy, outright dirty ( bathroom!) and cluttered a lot of their residences are. On average I would say that my male friends keep their places in much better shape.

These two sentences should have answered your question. If women were NATURALLY tidy/clean, they would be naturally inclined to straighten up after themselves regardless of the environment. The reason why many don't is because they haven't been taught. Again, being taught something has nothing to do with nature. If no one ever got/get on women about tidiness, many would never clean up.

[All or Nothing]

(03-17-2013 02:55 PM)Timoteo Wrote:  

Also, we need to make a distinction between messy, and just flat-out dirty and/or nasty. If you've got some stuff laying around, and maybe haven't dusted or vacuumed in a little while, that's messy. If you've got spills/beverage rings on the tables, crumbs and old food laying about, and flies buzzing around the kitchen because you haven't emptied the garbage, that's dirty/nasty. If your bedroom smells funky because of dirty clothes laying around or in the hamper forever, that's dirty/nasty. There are two areas of your domicile that simply can't be less than clean - the bathroom and the kitchen. If those two places aren't reasonably clean, you're a nasty fuck. Other areas of the house, particularly your bedroom, can look "lived in," and only required some tidying up to receive company. If you've got to do a full-fledged scrubbing to make it presentable, you're nasty.

This reminds me of when I went over to this chick's place in my apartment complex. I stepped into her apartment, and immediately the place looked like a mess, and smelled a little bit too. I walked with her to the kitchen and sat down on a chair. I talked to her as she made a couple drinks, and in the background I watched a couple black bugs walking around on the wall. They were coming down from some hole behind the cabinet, and then up into another one.

We decided to take the drinks back to my place.

[Screwston]

I think women used to be more tidy and clean than men because they took care of the homes and all that. My grandma and mom are both real clean like that. The current generation of girls is nothing like that though. Most have disgusting places and shit all in their car. Guys have to keep their cribs somewhat nice if they're constantly bringing girls over, but broads can have maggots infesting the place and will still get fucked there.

[Vitriol]

Has anyone else ever been on a female floor or building in a dorm on an American university campus? Most of their rooms are cluttered with junk that they don't need and excess clothing. Many of these rooms are fucking disgusting.

I'm sure a lot of it comes from immaturity and the fact that their parents aren't around to bitch at them to clean up for the first time in their lives, but damn... I know my living space was always relatively clean when I was in a dorm.