[Handsome Creepy Eel]

I disagree. Women became that way by themselves, because it's their biological imperative when all cultural restrictions are removed. Just like a majority of men would have no problem raping women if they grew up in a savage, brutal lawless area like parts of Congo today, instead of in a civilized society like they did.

I'm not saying your mother deserved it. There are really men who are very manipulative and cannot reliably be detected as psychos or the like. But you have to realize every single woman is claiming that. While that might be true for any individual case, it's simply impossible that it's true for all of them, or even a majority. The basic statistics about family, sexuality and etc completely disprove it.

Further, it is ludicrous that an example like what a man did to your mom would somehow shape women into being bitches, disloyal or lusting for idiots who won't commit. If anything, that example only reinforces the power of female choice and how important it is for women to use it properly to find a nice guy who won't leave them pregnant. It just doesn't make sense. It would be like saying that, because I once wasn't cautious on a slippery surface and fell and broke my leg, I now feel an incentive to jump around recklessly and go play football.

The point is, female recklessness in chasing the gina tingle is what created this. In any world other than one which condones straight up kindapping and rape (Saudi Arabia?), men simply adapt to female preferences. Just like you claim your "for every man, there are 1000 of women who...", I claim this:

"for every honestly wronged, pump 'n' dumped woman around, there are 1000 of those who brought it upon themselves despite having had a million chances to prevent it."

I have sympathy for your mom, I really do. But flagellating yourself or all men is equally unhelpful.

[No Habit]

These philosophical threads never lead to an answer.

Less philosophizing, more getting pussy !

[gamepadawan]

This just means your dad or your friends caused this problem, I didn't do anything.

[brianmark]

@Nomad77 - My big complaint about PUAs is that many of them are broken guys that hate women. Nothing good will ever come from hating women. If a man wants to succeed with women he certainly can't hate them.

I also follow your philosophy in life: to always leave them better than I found them.

Game is a response to Feminism. There is no mystery why Game or PUA exploded in popularity in the early 2000s. This is when third wave Feminism took over. Before this time, complex Game was not really needed to get laid.

I feel bad for all women that have been abused in past generations. Many of these women weren’t abused and were happy being wives and taking care of kids while only the husbands had to work. Unfortunately I live in the present and what happened in past generation has little effect on the current. Beta males created the horrible situation we are living in today with women. They gave away the keys to the castle for free.

Nomad77 you always bring up many good topics. What Latin Am country is your family from? You should be glad you are from Latin culture, because at least the men of this culture have Game. White western men have some of the worst Game in the world. 95% of the younger generation of white males is pussified Betas.

[Nomad77]

Thanks Brianmark and you have made some very good points.

Guys, let me try and explain why this thread was created and the points I wanted to make:

1. As Brianmark said: "Nothing good will ever come from hating women. If a man wants to succeed with women he certainly can't hate them." As long as you hate women, doesn't matter how much pussy you get you will still be unhappy. It will never fill the emptiness inside of you. No amount of Pussy will remove the hate.

2. If your mentally is fuck women, I am going to use Game as weapon against them and that this is war then it's one you
have already lost. The whole point of being with a woman is for her to love and take care of you. Why the hell would she want to do that to her enemy or someone that hates her?

3. The reality is, most men will never be good enough with Game because very few men will be willing to do the amount of work that someone like Roosh does. And this is why they are so many "beta" men today. In this so called war against women most men simply do not have what it takes to fight much less win it. The men on this board is like a small guerrilla outfit, while they are some that are highly effective they represent a fraction of less than 1% the men out there. For every man that is doing well with game and women, there are millions that are suffering. As Brianmark pointed out a few decades ago game was unnecessary. We are are trying to fight a war where 99% of our soldiers have no training!

4. Because of point #3 it makes all the sense in the world to say hey, lets sit down with women and work this out. Neither women nor men wins if we are basically going to go to war with each other. I have a unique perspective on women. I interact on a regular basis with females from 10 - 60. I know how each generation thinks. Look at groups of young kids today and see who the so called "alpha" of the group is, it's usually a girl. I would not want to go to war with these young girls, trust me. And I know sure as hell the young boys growing up today don't stand a chance.

5. You are going to need an ever increasing skill level of game as things get tougher. The success of a very small minority of guys is in no way reflective of the majority of men. (And while these guys may be getting a lot of sex many are still lonely and don't have constructive relationships with women.) I have lived in Brasil and Europe for years. And trust me, things are getting tougher and tougher in these so called pussy paradises. Because of the Internet and American media the women are becoming more Americanized. So if you think the solution is that you are going to just escape from America and all of this BS, then you better think again.

I have made it a point, as you see on my tag line, to meet as many guys on here as possible. And the reality is, only a very small minority is doing really well. The vast majority even with decent game is really struggling. To put it another way, 10% of the guys are getting 90% of the pussy while the rest is basically starving!

In summary, you don't want to get into a "war" with women. It's not a fight we can win. And from the teenage girls I interact with, Jesus helps us, when these girls grow up in a few years. If we think the women today are difficult it's only going to get worse. If we don't take steps to contain and reverse the situation now, no amount of Game is going to help us in the near future.

[Nomad77]

And regarding my mother....

My mother was always a happy woman and she still is. For all of his affairs, drinking, partying, etc. my father was never really a happy man. Like many men, he was trying to use all of these things to numb a loneliness/emptiness he felt inside. He was psychologically and physically abusive to both me and my mother. I have long ago forgiven my father and have no hate for him. I've come to realize that hating anyone is simply not worth it. (It's what I call a useless emotion.) In the end, he didn't abuse just us, he abused himself. We think when we hurt someone we are only hurting them BUT are much hurt as we inflict on someone else we also do the same amount of damage to ourselves without really realizing it.

There are some great men out there and there are also some great women. Personally, I have never been hurt or used by women. If anything, women are very protective of me. And what do I attribute this to? Very simply this:

I love women, and they love me in return.
It's really that simple.
That's my game.

[Nomad77]

Mystery: I have a strong belief in leaving a woman better off than when I met her.

http://www.askmen.com/celebs/interview_2...z2LsVzO100

[soup]

You complain about women.

I don't hate women in general. I hate the attitude that American women use.

[Nomad77]

Of course I do. WE = me, you, and all other men in this country

[soup]

No, I don't complain about all women. I complain about women who present me with ugliness.

[agorist]

Every woman is in the trap of repeating patterns imposed on her through early childhood conditioning. And every man is in the trap of repeating patterns imposed on him through early childhood conditioning. Men are often motivated to question those patterns when they don't get what they want. Women may be motivated to question them too, but this is often when it is too late to do much about it. They are then strongly motivated to avoid confronting reality because that ship has sailed, and there is no going back. Hello anxiety and depression on top of that. Fortunately men have more opportunity to figure things out and change course.

Parenting and lack of parenting set people off in very different life directions. The US is an empire, and the children of single mothers are useful for an empire, and single motherhood is subsidized in the US partially for that reason.

[Kwisatz]

Game theory is the study of strategic decision making and is something I really want to delve into in relation to how it works as a part of what we to to, for, and with women. Thanks for the insight.

(02-22-2013 01:35 PM)Black Knight Wrote:  

It's a prisoner's dilemma. The overall utility to society would be a lot higher if civilization returned to embracing and rewarding beta male characteristics, though the payoffs for the cad in that society are higher than for the cooperators. Likewise, defecting to cad status in our current social conditions is obviously better for the individual than cooperating with male roles that no longer return any value in most cases. In some ways it's a shame it has to be like this, but make no mistake -- it is the rational choice.

[Kwisatz]

Sounds a lot like the Campfire Rule a few folks I know use. The rule: A person who dates a significantly younger person should try to leave them "better off" when the relationship ends.

Here is an article about it by Dan Savage -> http://www.portlandmercury.com/portland/...oid=893646

(02-22-2013 01:14 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  

I want to state something very clearly here. I seduce women, sometimes for sex, sometimes for love, sometimes just for fun. What I don't do, is leave them fucked up in some way. I have a very simple rule I live by:

"Try to leave people and things a little better than you found them and the world will be a better place."

[Nomad77]

I think you should try to leave people (all people) better off.

As the Karma people like to say:

what you give to the world, is what the world will give back to you.

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

I like the spirit of the advice, but I think you guys need to read this:

Heartiste Wrote:

http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2011/09/0...ot-likely/

Let’s examine the suppositions behind this smooth but empty incantation. Assume the average pickup artist meets a girl he likes and they date (read: screw) for a few months. Because he is a guy who knows game, she really digs him. At this three-month critical juncture, he has a few options before him: he can choose to stick it out for longer in monogamous isolation chamber hell bliss, he can lie about seeing other girls, he can somehow convince her to be part of his harem, or he can dump her to chase fresh tail. That last choice is what we’re interested in. What would be the reasons a man would leave a girl he is banging?

- he found a hotter girl
- the full extent of her horrid personality came to light
- she gained weight or suffered facial disfigurement from an accident or attack (hey, it’s a cruel world)
- he is bursting with ball juice and can’t go more than three months without sampling new pussy
- a hotter ex came back into his life
- he cheated and decided leaving her was preferable to staying with her in penance prison, offering his manly dignity as sacrificial lamb
- he just got plain tired of banging her and needed his single life back
- he moved far away, or she moved far away
- she started pressing him to move the relationship forward
- he caught her cheating

There are, I’m sure, other reasons why a man would leave a chick, but I think I’ve hit upon the most common ones. Now ask yourself this simple question: under any of the above dumping scenarios where the man has dumped a girl who really liked him (excluding the scenario where he caught her cheating), do you honestly believe the girl is going to feel better about herself afterwards? Happier? More content with life? Filled with joy and whimsy? Will she be a BETTER PERSON, whatever the fuck that means?

The answer is contained in the absurdity of the question. Of course, she won’t be happy. I doubt she’ll be much of a better person, either. Most girls who have torrid flings with alphas might learn what kind of player warning signs to watch for, but their hearts will ache for one more of his touches, and they won’t be able to bond very well with any future men who don’t rise to the standards set by her alpha ex.
...
It would be wise for you Don Juans to remember that, the next time you rationalize that your leaving her will actually make her a better person. There is no spinning away the ugly reality with a sappy cliche. Better to embrace your wicked choice and feast on the brutality of it all. Makes for a more invigorating life.

[Giovonny]

(02-25-2013 01:38 PM)Kwisatz Wrote:  

Here is an article about it by Dan Savage -> http://www.portlandmercury.com/portland/...oid=893646

I like that article. I'm inspired to now treat my younger girlfriends a little better. The older people should set the example for the youth. When we treat young girls like shit we are actually making it harder for the next player. Respect the game. Be a man of decency, not a low life scum bag.

[Screwston]

(02-25-2013 05:57 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

(02-25-2013 01:38 PM)Kwisatz Wrote:  

Here is an article about it by Dan Savage -> http://www.portlandmercury.com/portland/...oid=893646

I like that article. I'm inspired to now treat my younger girlfriends a little better. The older people should set the example for the youth. When we treat young girls like shit we are actually making it harder for the next player. Respect the game. Be a man of decency, not a low life scum bag.

I get what he's saying but younger girls are on some other shit, just like their older sisters. I wouldn't be getting as much pussy if I was real respectful and friendly to them. I do try to give them advice about drugs and life after I've blessed them with my dick and they open up to me. Can't tell them to much game though or they'll suspect that I'm older than I say. I only do this with barely legal girls who might actually listen to what I have to say. Older girls are a lost cause or got their head to far up their ass already. I do what I have to do to fuck them and then get ghost like Casper.

[Beyond Borders]

(02-22-2013 02:34 PM)rakishness Wrote:  

Women are the choosers. There are plenty of loyal nice guys who they can start families with. But they are not attracted to those guys.

It's their own fault.

At first I was really vibing with the OP, but I didn't even make it to the rest of this thread before this particular comment stopped me.

There's some major truth to this. I was also raised by a single mom raising three sons on her own, and my father spent my childhood in prison. Life was chaos in our house growing up. My dad almost killed me before I was out of the crib and went to jail later on for the attempted murder of my younger brother and sisters (he was with another woman at that point, as we have different moms).

You'd think that'd have been enough, but she didn't stop with the crazy alphas after my dad got too be too much to handle. The men my mother chose to date over the years put us through some real hell and she just kept doing it.

School nights were often spent listening to drunken and drugged out screaming arguments with her boyfriends until 5 am. I had a knife pulled on me by one of her boyfriends - my buddies saw the same guy stab another biker through the face at the bar one night. I beat the shit out of the same bf when I was 14 and then bought a sawed-off shottie afterwards because he and his friends were supposedly after me and my brother after that happened.

That was just one chapter in the story of our childhood.

The real damaging part was the overall wear and tear of the fact that it just wouldn't stop, though; you know what I mean? I remember so many times she'd break down, crying, and apologize, and I'd just be all stoic and unaffected - a boy trying to be a man - and say, "Apologies mean nothing to me. You're already forgiven, so just change. Today's a new day." And then hug and console HER.

But she'd just keep making the same mistakes. I'd say you can still see the effects of her decisions in our family today.

Here's the rough part. I remember a few, maybe quite a few, legitimate nice guys, some who really had their shit together, telling me how interested they were in my mom. She wouldn't give them the time of day. They weren't bad-looking dudes. I'd say they were even cool, popular guys in our community. Nice guys.

But even after all the bullshit she lived through and put her kids through, even after becoming somewhat washed up and having done so much drugs in her youth she put a hole between her nostrils, and even though she was well on her way to menopause, a guy could be too "nice" to consider dating. Don't you think that at that point you'd be willing to make some "sacrifices" in what you wanted and try something new? Nope.

I saw this same retarded shit out of her friends - growing up with a single mom puts you in the middle of a lot of woman-on-woman conversations.

It's ridiculous from a man's perspective but it's just the way it is.

"Bitches be crazy, you know that." - Jerry Stiller

[snoop]

(02-26-2013 07:21 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

(02-22-2013 02:34 PM)rakishness Wrote:  

Women are the choosers. There are plenty of loyal nice guys who they can start families with. But they are not attracted to those guys.

It's their own fault.

At first I was really vibing with the OP, but I didn't even make it to the rest of this thread before this particular comment stopped me.

There's some major truth to this. I was also raised by a single mom raising three sons on her own, and my father spent my childhood in prison. Life was chaos in our house growing up. My dad almost killed me before I was out of the crib and went to jail later on for the attempted murder of my younger brother and sisters (he was with another woman at that point, as we have different moms).

You'd think that'd have been enough, but she didn't stop with the crazy alphas after my dad got too be too much to handle. The men my mother chose to date over the years put us through some real hell and she just kept doing it.

School nights were often spent listening to drunken and drugged out screaming arguments with her boyfriends until 5 am. I had a knife pulled on me by one of her boyfriends - my buddies saw the same guy stab another biker through the face at the bar one night. I beat the shit out of the same bf when I was 14 and then bought a sawed-off shottie afterwards because he and his friends were supposedly after me and my brother after that happened.

That was just one chapter in the story of our childhood.

The real damaging part was the overall wear and tear of the fact that it just wouldn't stop, though; you know what I mean? I remember so many times she'd break down, crying, and apologize, and I'd just be all stoic and unaffected - a boy trying to be a man - and say, "Apologies mean nothing to me. You're already forgiven, so just change. Today's a new day." And then hug and console HER.

But she'd just keep making the same mistakes. I'd say you can still see the effects of her decisions in our family today.

Here's the rough part. I remember a few, maybe quite a few, legitimate nice guys, some who really had their shit together, telling me how interested they were in my mom. She wouldn't give them the time of day. They weren't bad-looking dudes. I'd say they were even cool, popular guys in our community. Nice guys.
But even after all the bullshit she lived through and put her kids through, even after becoming somewhat washed up and having done so much drugs in her youth she put a hole between her nostrils, and even though she was well on her way to menopause, a guy could be too "nice" to consider dating. Don't you think that at that point you'd be willing to make some "sacrifices" in what you wanted and try something new? Nope.

I saw this same retarded shit out of her friends - growing up with a single mom puts you in the middle of a lot of woman-on-woman conversations.

It's ridiculous from a man's perspective but it's just the way it is.

"Bitches be crazy, you know that." - Jerry Stiller

What was your mother's relationship with her father like?

[Beyond Borders]

(02-26-2013 01:59 PM)snoop Wrote:  

(02-26-2013 07:21 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

(02-22-2013 02:34 PM)rakishness Wrote:  

Women are the choosers. There are plenty of loyal nice guys who they can start families with. But they are not attracted to those guys.

It's their own fault.

Here's the rough part. I remember a few, maybe quite a few, legitimate nice guys, some who really had their shit together, telling me how interested they were in my mom. She wouldn't give them the time of day. They weren't bad-looking dudes. I'd say they were even cool, popular guys in our community. Nice guys.

What was your mother's relationship with her father like?

I believe he was an alkie who spent a lot of time away on "business trips," which were really covers for time he spent hanging out in bars with his girlfriends. By the time I was old enough to know him, he'd suffered some strokes and was mute. I don't think their relationship was very close.

By the way, for anyone who took my post as rationale for treating women badly, I want to clarify that I still believe in leaving people better than you find them, regardless of their sex and the basis of your interaction. I just found a lot of truth in what the other poster mentioned and it struck a nerve.

At the end of the day, the way you treat other people has a lot more to say about you than it does about them. At least that's how I feel at this point in my life.

[Nomad77]

(02-26-2013 05:32 PM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

At the end of the day, the way you treat other people has a lot more to say about you than it does about them. At least that's how I feel at this point in my life.

Well said.

[gamepadawan]

So reciprocity means zippo to you guys?

[Nomad77]

No, of course it does. I understand there are women out there that are complete bitches and you just can't leave in a better way but I usually just avoid them in the first place.

[rmo]

This is my problem with feminism and racism (especially white guilt)

Gen x/y and the millenials are not responsible for any of the shit that led minority groups to be judged, yet by virtue of skin color and race we are blamed.

I know men voted feminism in, I know men made a culture that generated the slut, but those men aren't me, and I feel in no way responsible for it.

(02-22-2013 03:09 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

I don't complain. I train.

Men who complain without taking action are men behaving like women.

With that in mind, I'm going to find a class lady and be a classy man, even if it means going to S.E. Asia.

[Barron]

Ever wonder why our generation has effectively broken Game down to a scientific system that can be learned? Sure there were pioneers before us; guys that were born with it, or taught themselves how to play to their strengths, but we're the ones perfecting it. Feminism has given birth to Game as we know it. To every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, and we are the reaction, rather the rejection of Feminism. Feminism teaches women to act like men, and men to act like women. It seeks to destroy not only men, but women too. It threatens our lives and is winning; see the declining birth rates in the western world.

If an average western male wants to get laid even a few times out of the year and doesn't want to pay for it, he will have to have some amount of Game. It wasn't always so difficult, just a couple generations ago men with steady jobs that had their own flat were considered "eligible". Then Feminism happened, and it wasn't all bad, that part came later. Today, Feminism and Femininity stand at polar opposites from one another. The modern Feminist school of thought teaches women to forgo their feminine nature (seeing it as an inferior archetype) in favor of masculine behaviors, while telling men that their sexual desires are wrong and disgusting, and that they should feel ashamed for their biological urges.

The problem is Feminism, the solution is Game. Like the title of the post; we (us men; our fathers and grandfathers) did create the women we're complaining about. We have to be willing to accept that we put ourselves in this hole. Game is the tool we've been given to get ourselves out of it, you're either willing to climb or you're not. Game teaches us not only how to be men, but how to make Feminist women feel Feminine. When used correctly, it re-reverses the confusion Feminism has inflicted ON THE SPOT.

Times are changing, and Yes, it sucks having to learn something that forces you to become something you're not. Game is there not to be emulated but to be internalized for the betterment of life as a whole, not just with women. I too am new to Game, and I am behind because I too carry with me all the shitty feminist beta male shame programming that the rest of my generation was brought up with. But I've seen the light and I can't look away, so I'll continue to climb out of the hell that Feminism has put me in. Always remember that men rule the world because we can out think women in everything... EVERYTHING. So get back to work.