[cardguy]

In what fundamental way is the aborting of foetuses with hereditary illnesses any different to the Nazi Aktion T4 programme of Eugenics?

Personally - I am open-minded about eugenics. I think it is a worry that the poorest and most ill-disciplined people in society are now outbreeding the more intelligent, responsible and therefore overworked classes. In the same way that is a shame that fat people are breeding at a faster rate than slim people. It means over future generations, the rate of fat people will start to increase exponentially - as we have seen since the introduction of birth control pills (as discussed in a recent thread).

Of course - it is undoubtedly much better to ensure personal liberty than it is to have the government try and encourage certain groups to breed or not breed. So - for the record - I happen to be against any system of eugenics.

I am not trying to pick a side here. I just feel that liberals are being hypocrites in not applying the same logic to abortions due to disability as they do to Nazi ideas involving Eugenics.

But then again. The left has always being inconsisent around the issue of Eugenics. Here in the UK - the socialists were widely in favour of Eugenics 60 years ago. And worried that the newly created welfare state would lead to widespread dysgenics:

http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/5571...are-state/

Anyway - I just wanted to mention it since the issue since it seems a glaring inconsistency when compared to the rest of the liberal agenda.

[j r]

(02-21-2013 07:59 AM)cardguy Wrote:  

In what fundamental way is the aborting of foetuses with hereditary illnesses any different to the Nazi Aktion T4 programme of Eugenics?

This question is phrase in such a way that I legitimately have now way of understanding exactly what you're trying to answer. Is there a reason to equate these two things other than that you think it presents some sort of logical flaw in the other side's ideology?

Are you more concerned with someone else's hypocrisy or with coming to a better understanding of the world around you? Fighting the culture war is overrated.

If you're legitimately curious about either abortion or eugenics, then you're better off dealing with them individually instead of trying to conflate them. People abort mainly because of personal circumstances. Eugenics is about social engineering. Sure, there is overlap, but nt enough to make this all that interesting.

[cardguy]

Yeah - maybe I am conflating two different subjects. Which makes it hard to address.

It just seems that most liberals support Eugenics. Support total equality for the disabled. And hate eugenics.

Yet - turning a blind eye to the testing of various disablities in foetuses seems hypocritical to me. Particularly since you are allowed to perform 'late-term' abortions for disabled foetuses (or even just foetuses which have cleft-lips) which is counted as murder if done when the baby is healthy.

Also - liberals cry out over the issue of sex selection when it comes to abortion. But do not when it comes to the issue of disabled foetuses.

It isn't a surprise to me. Most women are liberals. And they use liberal cover to prmote anything which benefits them.

Whereas most men who are liberals are brain dead idiots. Which is why you have thousands of them here in the UK camped outside banks protesting. And not a single one camped outside our nationalised hospitals protesting against the widespread neglect and murder of thousands of elderly patients.

Bankers = Bad.

Nurses = good.

[cardguy]

This might be a relevent thread in which to pass along this link from The Economist magazine. It is a discussion about why so many Ashkenazi jews are of genius level intelligence:

http://www.economist.com/node/4032638

tl;dr - In Christian societies - the smartest people become priests, bishops and monks. And never got to pass on their genes. In Jewish societies - the smartest people became scholars and rabbis. And unlike with Christians - they were allowed to have children and pass on their intelligence to the next generation.

As someone from a long line of Christians. All I can say is - 'Doh!'

[void]

Anyone who thinks the current state of the western society has no (negative) influence on the gene pool is a retard. The reproduction rate of people who are able to compete in our society on a high level is INVERSE to their competence (at least in Europe). To me this is a argument against female "career"-shit. people in academics often pump out between 0 and 1 offspring. I know that academic education is only a small indicator for intelligence/competence.