I've been getting back into my Spanish studies. I really wish we were given a 2nd language from a very young age when it's easiest to pick it up. I can study the vocabulary and learn the words, but when I listen to it at conversation speed, I feel like a moron. It just goes by in a blur and I feel like I've learned nothing. When I'm in this position, it makes it hard to visualize the day when it's all going to just click and I'll be bantering back and forth with someone in Spanish. People do it, but right now it's literally tiring listening to two people talk in Spanish and trying to follow along. If it's written though, I can understand a fair amount.
Learning a new language is tough
I've learned Spanish, Chinese, French, and Korean by dating girls who spoke those languages with me. If you live in a major city or in the southwest/Florida, I would say you should find a girl who speaks Spanish. even if you cant find one that isn't that hot, specifically for the purpose of learning Spanish.
Dating a girl will take you through the entire spectrum of what you will need to learn in a language. You will learn the social conventions of the local culture, you will learn what is expected of a man and a woman, you will learn how to argue, apologize, make up, fuck, go out and meet her friends, whatever. By text messaging with her you will learn slang and will have to come up with clever responses on the spot.
There is no substitute for it, in my opinion.
I've also learned that it is much more important to be able to converse in a language than it is to be able to read and write. I can barely read Chinese but because my speaking is solid my social network has expanded much more quickly than that of many expat friends of mine.
Dating a girl will take you through the entire spectrum of what you will need to learn in a language. You will learn the social conventions of the local culture, you will learn what is expected of a man and a woman, you will learn how to argue, apologize, make up, fuck, go out and meet her friends, whatever. By text messaging with her you will learn slang and will have to come up with clever responses on the spot.
There is no substitute for it, in my opinion.
I've also learned that it is much more important to be able to converse in a language than it is to be able to read and write. I can barely read Chinese but because my speaking is solid my social network has expanded much more quickly than that of many expat friends of mine.
Youngmobileglobal is right that one of the best, if not best ways to learn any language is to get a girlfriend from that country and speak with her. Another good way that I've been using to learn Italian and Portuguese, beside the girlfriend has been immersing myself in the culture, that is listening to music in that language/from that country as well as read magazines, newspapers and books in that language. Also, go to some of these language exchange websites and contact girls/guys from the country you're looking to learn the lingo and practice with them online via msn, emails etc...I've personally found this method a lot more efficient and above all, a lot more fun than sitting in a classroom and taking a language course.
"right now it's literally tiring listening to two people talk in Spanish and trying to follow along"
Just keep at it. It will get easier.
Just keep at it. It will get easier.
YoungMobileGlobal is right.
You can learn anything if it's fun, and there's hardly anything more fun that having a girlfriend who speaks another language. Trust me, you'll be dying to understand what she's moaning in your ear.
You can learn anything if it's fun, and there's hardly anything more fun that having a girlfriend who speaks another language. Trust me, you'll be dying to understand what she's moaning in your ear.
Like Vacancier said... movies, books and music. Learn to love the culture. Spanish is great for that as it's easy to immerse in it and there's tons of cultural material available, just like English.
Quote: (05-18-2010 01:38 AM)speakeasy Wrote:
I've been getting back into my Spanish studies. I really wish we were given a 2nd language from a very young age when it's easiest to pick it up. I can study the vocabulary and learn the words, but when I listen to it at conversation speed, I feel like a moron. It just goes by in a blur and I feel like I've learned nothing. When I'm in this position, it makes it hard to visualize the day when it's all going to just click and I'll be bantering back and forth with someone in Spanish. People do it, but right now it's literally tiring listening to two people talk in Spanish and trying to follow along. If it's written though, I can understand a fair amount.
everyone learns differently. learn the best way for you. and fluency can come in stages... first reading/writing, then listening comprehension. a good way to practice when you're on the ground in a spanish-speaking land, is AM radio. it'll help your listening comprehension a lot. or spanish lang radio via the internet, etc
Also, spanish lang. movies.. I've met a handful of people who managed to learn a hell of a lot of English from watching Hollywood movies.
It's a bit of a catch 22 though.
To get good at spanish you should get a girlfriend.
To get a girlfriend you have to be able to communicate with her.
When there is a big language difficulty, I've had to lower my standards to get anything. In other words, why would a desirable girl go for a foreign guy she can't communicate with? One suggestion is to have a starter foreign girlfriend that you trade up on as your fluency improves. I did this in Colombia.
To get good at spanish you should get a girlfriend.
To get a girlfriend you have to be able to communicate with her.
When there is a big language difficulty, I've had to lower my standards to get anything. In other words, why would a desirable girl go for a foreign guy she can't communicate with? One suggestion is to have a starter foreign girlfriend that you trade up on as your fluency improves. I did this in Colombia.
Roosh
http://www.rooshv.com
Im more of a fan of the jump in it approach and just make plans to stay there for 3 months and do your best to stay away from the expat community. When i started learning chinese, i learned it in school, and i hung out only with english speakers, so i never really improved, and this was in Taiwan. Then when i went back to china 2 years after graduation, i jumped right in it and within 3 months i had gotten to the point where i was totally self sufficent.
And i consider fluency in a language the ability to pick up girls only in that language without relying on the passport charm of being a foreigner. The pick up game is so heavily dependent on language skills in most situations and it encompasses so much that is good to know how to say. Its also effect of weaning you off NLP if you were/are a big fan of it and lean on it like a crutch like some guys i know. Language also gives a lot of insight into the culture, so its good to pick of atleast the basics before you travel.
The issue is no one i have ever met barring 2 people were self motivated enough to teach themself a foreign language or even study it to the point of holding a complex conversation. You need to get yourself out there and put yourselves in the situation to use what you know. Girlfriends are good, but Roosh points out the dilemma. You need a good ground work for it, and if you hook up with the expats and the bilingual people who hang around them, you wont improve yourself. I see people in china for almost 10 years, and can barely even ask where the bathroom is. But i am sure there are situations to practice at home. Spanish speaking people are all over the place, just find their hang outs and drop it that you are trying to learn spanish. I have never, ever been rejected for chatting with someone in a language i barely speak under the guise of practice.
And i consider fluency in a language the ability to pick up girls only in that language without relying on the passport charm of being a foreigner. The pick up game is so heavily dependent on language skills in most situations and it encompasses so much that is good to know how to say. Its also effect of weaning you off NLP if you were/are a big fan of it and lean on it like a crutch like some guys i know. Language also gives a lot of insight into the culture, so its good to pick of atleast the basics before you travel.
The issue is no one i have ever met barring 2 people were self motivated enough to teach themself a foreign language or even study it to the point of holding a complex conversation. You need to get yourself out there and put yourselves in the situation to use what you know. Girlfriends are good, but Roosh points out the dilemma. You need a good ground work for it, and if you hook up with the expats and the bilingual people who hang around them, you wont improve yourself. I see people in china for almost 10 years, and can barely even ask where the bathroom is. But i am sure there are situations to practice at home. Spanish speaking people are all over the place, just find their hang outs and drop it that you are trying to learn spanish. I have never, ever been rejected for chatting with someone in a language i barely speak under the guise of practice.
I found it pretty easy to learn Portuguese, but then again I had a little ensentive as the girl I was seeing didn't speak English. I found that to be the easiest way to learn, as it looks a lot of other guys here did as well. I'm quite a fast learner as well though.
But also, I've heard it is much tougher the older you are. I met a guy from Denmark while in Brazil. He spoke fluent English, so obviously learning a language wasn't necissarily his problem. I would have guess he was somewhere around 50. Said he moved to Brazil around 3 years before that. He was married to a Brazilian girl that spoke english. He said he just couldn't get Portuguese. He said he forgot everything he was taught the next day.
But also, I've heard it is much tougher the older you are. I met a guy from Denmark while in Brazil. He spoke fluent English, so obviously learning a language wasn't necissarily his problem. I would have guess he was somewhere around 50. Said he moved to Brazil around 3 years before that. He was married to a Brazilian girl that spoke english. He said he just couldn't get Portuguese. He said he forgot everything he was taught the next day.
Its been proven that as people age, their ability to recall and apply new languages declines. It has something to do with the brain culling its synaptic connections due to data overload. Babies start life with somewhere like 15,000 connections for each pathway, and by age 16 they have already dropped by 66%. Thats why accents a reality for those who try to learn a language later in life.
Language is very different then memory, its applied. I can understand a helluva lot more then i can recall on my own when speaking in several languages simply because i cant recall it. Think massive brain farts all the time. The only effective way ive found is to put yourself into a situation where it is required for you to apply newly learned vocabulary several times. For example, i pick up medical terminology in Chinese quickly because i use it on a daily basis, but have a lot of trouble with idioms, which are for the most part much simpler in every way.
Language is very different then memory, its applied. I can understand a helluva lot more then i can recall on my own when speaking in several languages simply because i cant recall it. Think massive brain farts all the time. The only effective way ive found is to put yourself into a situation where it is required for you to apply newly learned vocabulary several times. For example, i pick up medical terminology in Chinese quickly because i use it on a daily basis, but have a lot of trouble with idioms, which are for the most part much simpler in every way.
unless you're senile and have alzheimers the age thing is a myth.
i've been in lang. classes overseas with new immigrants who are 60+ grandmothers and they are picking things up better than 20 y/o.
if you have a brain and want to learn a language, it's doable.
i've been in lang. classes overseas with new immigrants who are 60+ grandmothers and they are picking things up better than 20 y/o.
if you have a brain and want to learn a language, it's doable.
I never said it wasnt doable, its just more difficult. Your brain isnt trained as well at that point to picking up new information and applying it instantly. Learning is a skill, and most people practice it less the older in life they they get. Sure it is possible to pick up a new language, but its a helluva lot more work then a 5 year old who picks it up automatically just from being in an area where people are speaking it.
Quote: (05-19-2010 05:43 PM)toddh Wrote:
unless you're senile and have alzheimers the age thing is a myth.
i've been in lang. classes overseas with new immigrants who are 60+ grandmothers and they are picking things up better than 20 y/o.
if you have a brain and want to learn a language, it's doable.
I don't agree with this. Maybe that 60 year old grandma was just good at learning languages. It's a fact that the older you get the harder it gets to learn new things. What about the Danish guy I met who had no problem learning English when he was young and now that he is 50 he can't learn Portuguese for the life of him?
Quote: (05-20-2010 06:27 PM)Brandon E Wrote:
Quote: (05-19-2010 05:43 PM)toddh Wrote:
unless you're senile and have alzheimers the age thing is a myth.
i've been in lang. classes overseas with new immigrants who are 60+ grandmothers and they are picking things up better than 20 y/o.
if you have a brain and want to learn a language, it's doable.
I don't agree with this. Maybe that 60 year old grandma was just good at learning languages. It's a fact that the older you get the harder it gets to learn new things. What about the Danish guy I met who had no problem learning English when he was young and now that he is 50 he can't learn Portuguese for the life of him?
i didnt mean to start ww3 over this.. yeah, sure it's harder as we age, but i think more than age, people learn differently so you've got find what works for you. of course our brains are more receptive to learning in our first few years or so... but the concept it, use or lose it, is also valid. also, some people are just better at languages, at any age.
I believe that it is not tough to learn other languages aside from your native tongue. Fortunately, I'm studying other languages after I had mastered French and Spanish. Although I am a Filipino, I already learned how to write and speak in English, and I could be able to converse in English. For me, it the easiest thing to do, to learn different languages well.
I have to call BS on the accents part.... its pure laziness on the part of the speaker. My father spoke 8 languages, growing up I learned quite a bit of German, he would make me the say the word 6,7,8 times until I said it exactly correctly. Im 32 and still picking up languages and I am told I have little to no accent(people think I am latino because of my perfect accent, not my white ass skin haha)
He forced me to listen and repeat the word exactly, not just ramble out the word the way I would pronounce an american word. IMO people learn a word wrong so they say it wrong their whole lives, not that they cant say it right, your tongue just gets used to talking in a certain way. You have to force it to do it correctly. like idiots at the gym throwing around weights, they have been working out for years but still do it wrong, they just need to be taught.
IMO immersion is key, get away from other english speakers, you will use them as a crutch. Listen to music, make as many mistakes as possible, read newspapers, listen to local music, and watching tv.
I know a girl at the hooters in medellin who speaks almost perfect english. she learned from watching English channels at home, I was impressed.
He forced me to listen and repeat the word exactly, not just ramble out the word the way I would pronounce an american word. IMO people learn a word wrong so they say it wrong their whole lives, not that they cant say it right, your tongue just gets used to talking in a certain way. You have to force it to do it correctly. like idiots at the gym throwing around weights, they have been working out for years but still do it wrong, they just need to be taught.
IMO immersion is key, get away from other english speakers, you will use them as a crutch. Listen to music, make as many mistakes as possible, read newspapers, listen to local music, and watching tv.
I know a girl at the hooters in medellin who speaks almost perfect english. she learned from watching English channels at home, I was impressed.
I agree with the media influence on accents. I live in the Baltics and I can always tell when someone watches a lot of American TV because their accents are invariably less harsh. Almost everyone speaks English here but sometimes what they're saying can be unintelligible if they haven't been able to adopt a native-speaker accent. I think immersion in that sense is really important. I've picked up quite a bit of the local language by watching English-language TV with subtitles, but people have difficulty understanding me because my accent isn't very good. You need to do it the other way around: native-language media with English subtitles. That's the tricky part, especially with some of the smaller languages, because the media is less prevalent. English-language media is the norm.
I started Spanish to help my game, now I learn Spanish just for fun!
IMO, the tough part to consider is the "Half-Life" of a language, meaning the inherent decay of your language skill in respect to time not spent in exposure. Just like muscles, if you don't use it.. you lose it. So f*ck me, i have to budget 20min on my already packed day to get this goal checked off..
BE WARNED! SPANISH IS HARD!!
Unless you want to remain speaking like a fifth grader, then that's a different story.
BE WARNED! SPANISH IS HARD!!
Unless you want to remain speaking like a fifth grader, then that's a different story.
Hi, I learned English, Italian and I have the basics of Chinesse and Portuguese, that all I started learning at my 20's. So it's no difficult to learn a new language! It can be boring sometimes, frustrating maybe, but not difficul if you put enough effort to it. And I'm agree with most guys in the forum that you should look for a girl friend. If you don't find her in your place look for a Cyber Girl Friend.
And for you who doesn't no any spanish, must notice that there is a serious differente between spanish talked in Southamerica and the Spanish talked in Spain, sometimes for me it's very hard to understand what they say in Spain movies. Even in Southamerica, spanish can be totally different,i.e. Chilean talk in a way I can hardly understand a little. Instead colombian, argentinians, peruvians,ecuatorians, etc understand each other without extra-effort.
Here somevideos subtitled in english so you understand and can practice language
This is from peruvian cinema:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yR1cfJY0_3c
And for you who doesn't no any spanish, must notice that there is a serious differente between spanish talked in Southamerica and the Spanish talked in Spain, sometimes for me it's very hard to understand what they say in Spain movies. Even in Southamerica, spanish can be totally different,i.e. Chilean talk in a way I can hardly understand a little. Instead colombian, argentinians, peruvians,ecuatorians, etc understand each other without extra-effort.
Here somevideos subtitled in english so you understand and can practice language
This is from peruvian cinema:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yR1cfJY0_3c
two things:
1. If you want to learn a language properly, university/textbook instruction is the way to go. Otherwise you'll always make mistakes.
2. Start out with a base, then try immersion or a girlfiend. If you can't even say hi or tell the time or say i'm hungry, i'd like an apple, a potato and a steak, then the battle will just be too much, imho.
1. If you want to learn a language properly, university/textbook instruction is the way to go. Otherwise you'll always make mistakes.
2. Start out with a base, then try immersion or a girlfiend. If you can't even say hi or tell the time or say i'm hungry, i'd like an apple, a potato and a steak, then the battle will just be too much, imho.
Quote: (11-13-2010 02:35 PM)insomnika Wrote:
Hi, I learned English, Italian and I have the basics of Chinesse and Portuguese, that all I started learning at my 20's. So it's no difficult to learn a new language! It can be boring sometimes, frustrating maybe, but not difficul if you put enough effort to it. And I'm agree with most guys in the forum that you should look for a girl friend. If you don't find her in your place look for a Cyber Girl Friend.
And for you who doesn't no any spanish, must notice that there is a serious differente between spanish talked in Southamerica and the Spanish talked in Spain, sometimes for me it's very hard to understand what they say in Spain movies. Even in Southamerica, spanish can be totally different,i.e. Chilean talk in a way I can hardly understand a little. Instead colombian, argentinians, peruvians,ecuatorians, etc understand each other without extra-effort.
Here somevideos subtitled in english so you understand and can practice language
This is from peruvian cinema:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yR1cfJY0_3c
I don't think the Spanish of Spain is seriously different from Latin American Spanish. Having worked with Spaniards and Latinos, I observed that the difference is more like American English vs British English, and is not a serious hindrance in communicating.
Here's a link to explain the difference.
http://spanish.about.com/cs/historyofspa...ieties.htm
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