[ElJefe]

http://www.myfoxny.com/story/20958959/ar...ion-spiral

I don't think I can make it to Argentina till before 2015, hopefully it'll a ripe for serious business opportunities!

[kosko]

They have been down this path before, they will default and tell the Banks to go fuck themselves. I feel Argentinas mess has been amplified from outside predatory Bankng groups in the UK whom viewed it as a maimed animal and a Country needing to go six feet deep for attempting to stand up to the UK. If I am not mistaking the nose dive started almost immediately after Argentina waved it's 'dick and sword' towards the UK over Falkland grievances.

[ElJefe]

A more likely explanation is the neo-socialist policies of the Kirchner government.

Printing money to finance expansionary fiscal policies, anti-free trade practices, capital mobility controls, nationalizing industry.

It's kind of interesting are so adept at destroying any economy they gain influence over.

[VUBBS]

Oh Jesus.
Don't even get me started about Argentina that is doing a great job on fucking themselves up from the inside.

The Falklands debate is just a stupid sensationalist power show-off to impress the followers of the demagogs and pretend to have a certain political power in the international community.

I only foresee but disgrace in this model, and wouldn't recommend anyone to do business in that nation in the near future.

[BIGINJAPAN]

I have been waiting for this moment since 2007. I have been saving my pennies and ready to purchase a vineyard. I missed the last collapse but I am ready for this one. It is amazing what you can buy in Mendoza compared to downtown Calgary. Even worse if you were to compare Vancouver or TO to the prices of a fully operational vineyard in Mendoza.

I wonder when Argentina will learn that capital controls and price freezes don't work ?

[j r]

Jefe and Kosko, you're both right. You just need to connect both sides.

Governments want to spend more money than they take in, so they go to banks to finance the deficit. In the short term, there's lots of money to be made in capital markets. In the long term, the banks have already made their profits so try don't care.

[christpuncher]

Interesting Big. Do you intend on moving there? Or allowing someone to tend your house/vinyard? How would that work?

[BIGINJAPAN]

Well I think what I would do is hire a foreigner from Europe to run the Vineyard year round. Seems quite common for foreign owners to do this. I met a lot of americans the last time I was down there that have hired french sommeliers to look after things. Ideally I would only be around in the summer time down there.

I don't care if it makes money, as long as everything is being paid for like workers, production and taxes. I just want properties all over the world to hang out at during different times of the year. I looked at places that were not only a vineyard's, but had restaurants and lodging on site. I think that is what I will be after. Something that has living quarters for myself and any hired help from overseas.

The great thing about Argentinian wines is that they are still all hand picked. Labor is so cheap down there you don't need machines what so ever. I love Malbec's so the key for me is waiting for the right size vineyard (3-10 acres) at the right elevation (around 1100m above sea level) to come up for sale. Which I suspect it will as many americans came in and financed land down there well after the recover had begun.

[Cicero]

Making money in Argentina, no matter the economic conditions is possible, but not easy. It takes more than just business sense. Business and political connections, plugged into the local scene, knowing the cultural etc. If you have just visited here for a couple months and are thinking of starting a business you'll probably get burned, I've seen it happen many times. Nothing makes sense here business wise, and it can be a major pain in the ass getting anything done, that being said some people are making a killing.

The economy is a bit of a mess, but the gov't has enough cash to get through 2013. 2014 I'm told they are projected to be cash flow negative with minimal reserves. They are cut off from the debt markets too, so it should be interesting. Even with insane inflation things are getting cheaper recently with the parallel market for dollars.

[GameTheory]

^^^ ARG= new p00n paradise?

[DVY]

Data from a close family friend on his trip about a month ago-
Argentina is messing up big time. A lot of foreign corporations are leaving because they instituted a policy of 1 peso in- 1peso out. In short, to import something and sell it in the country, you have to export something from their country FOR EVERY COMPANY. Most foreign companies have left, I think in the fashion district the only store left is Fendi (and that is likely to close soon as well).

Basically, a harebrained communistic scheme to "promote Argentina's economy". This coupled w/extreme corruption, government poorly designed programs, and rising inflation insures that Argentina will be going into the toilet.

Prices are freaking crazy on everything. Food produce is very expensive, real estate is pricey, gas is pricey, and incomes are much lower. Tourism will be there, but I foresee a cut-back because of the higher than normal prices. Prices aren't that much cheaper than the states/canada for tourists.

[Bronze Age Pervert]

(02-06-2013 01:05 AM)DVY Wrote:  

Data from a close family friend on his trip about a month ago-
Argentina is messing up big time. A lot of foreign corporations are leaving because they instituted a policy of 1 peso in- 1peso out. In short, to import something and sell it in the country, you have to export something from their country FOR EVERY COMPANY. Most foreign companies have left, I think in the fashion district the only store left is Fendi (and that is likely to close soon as well).

Basically, a harebrained communistic scheme to "promote Argentina's economy". This coupled w/extreme corruption, government poorly designed programs, and rising inflation insures that Argentina will be going into the toilet.

Prices are freaking crazy on everything. Food produce is very expensive, real estate is pricey, gas is pricey, and incomes are much lower. Tourism will be there, but I foresee a cut-back because of the higher than normal prices. Prices aren't that much cheaper than the states/canada for tourists.

I might check things out there, will be in Brazil. I doubt this is true brah...you can still get a good apt. with everything included, in a central location, for maybe $800/month; I lived well there for $1500/month a few years ago and I doubt things have changed that much. You can get a good rate for the dollar on the black market.

[bojangles]

the Falklands thing is such a joke, I'm surprised the argies don't see past their lizard president who's just pulling the wool over their eyes as they suffer economic collapse and poverty.

[pobreinvestidor]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kirchn...-chart.png

Thats how politicians roll in south america

[ElJefe]

If there's any justice, she and her posse will be guillotined. Doubt it though.

BIGINJAPAN... how much do you estimate is necessary to get started with something like what you have in mind?

[lush1]

(02-06-2013 06:23 AM)bojangles Wrote:  

the Falklands thing is such a joke, I'm surprised the argies don't see past their lizard president who's just pulling the wool over their eyes as they suffer economic collapse and poverty.

How do we know they don't? We hear all the bollocks from their chief lizard but I wouldn't know if she is representing public opinion on the matter.

[BIGINJAPAN]

(02-06-2013 08:05 AM)ElJefe Wrote:  

If there's any justice, she and her posse will be guillotined. Doubt it though.

BIGINJAPAN... how much do you estimate is necessary to get started with something like what you have in mind?

Well I was there a year ago and 3 acres with production and a house was going for 300k. For something a little bigger with a few guest houses or a restaurant was around 750k. I also looked at one that was 20 acres, with a 8 room hotel and restaurant for 1.5 million. I think that last one is out of my range and definitely more work than what I want to put in.

It will be interesting to see how much prices drop in CAD or in gold. I am hoping to just pay cash. Less headaches and less probability that the bank or government takes your property. It is also pretty much impossible to get a North American bank to finance you on something like that.

I did meet an American company that is selling off plots and willing to finance you as well. Problem is for 3 acres you only get the land with the vines. You can't build a house or own the production equipment. Basically they sell you the plot, you pick the vines you want and they make everything for you, even bottling and labeling.

http://vinesofmendoza.com/private_vineyard/bodega

I have Michaels personal email if anyone is serious. Just PM me.

[dk902]

I've been to the bodegas in Mendoza and tried the Malbec, very nice. The women too.

It was quite fun cycling round the bodegas getting drunk then you get a police motorcycle escort back!

[Cicero]

(02-06-2013 03:35 AM)Bronze Age Pervert Wrote:  

(02-06-2013 01:05 AM)DVY Wrote:  

Data from a close family friend on his trip about a month ago-
Argentina is messing up big time. A lot of foreign corporations are leaving because they instituted a policy of 1 peso in- 1peso out. In short, to import something and sell it in the country, you have to export something from their country FOR EVERY COMPANY. Most foreign companies have left, I think in the fashion district the only store left is Fendi (and that is likely to close soon as well).

Basically, a harebrained communistic scheme to "promote Argentina's economy". This coupled w/extreme corruption, government poorly designed programs, and rising inflation insures that Argentina will be going into the toilet.

Prices are freaking crazy on everything. Food produce is very expensive, real estate is pricey, gas is pricey, and incomes are much lower. Tourism will be there, but I foresee a cut-back because of the higher than normal prices. Prices aren't that much cheaper than the states/canada for tourists.

I might check things out there, will be in Brazil. I doubt this is true brah...you can still get a good apt. with everything included, in a central location, for maybe $800/month; I lived well there for $1500/month a few years ago and I doubt things have changed that much. You can get a good rate for the dollar on the black market.

What DVY said is pretty spot on.

I'm living in Argentina right now, I highly doubt you will find a centrally located apt with everything included for $800/month..unless its a studio that isn't all that great. Inflation is running about 30% per year. The blue rate as they call it, does help a bit as the spread between the blue and the official rate is about 50%..but things still aren't all that cheap. Compared to SP or Rio it is a bargain though.

[Bronze Age Pervert]

(02-06-2013 11:40 PM)Cicero Wrote:  

(02-06-2013 03:35 AM)Bronze Age Pervert Wrote:  

(02-06-2013 01:05 AM)DVY Wrote:  

Data from a close family friend on his trip about a month ago-
Argentina is messing up big time. A lot of foreign corporations are leaving because they instituted a policy of 1 peso in- 1peso out. In short, to import something and sell it in the country, you have to export something from their country FOR EVERY COMPANY. Most foreign companies have left, I think in the fashion district the only store left is Fendi (and that is likely to close soon as well).

Basically, a harebrained communistic scheme to "promote Argentina's economy". This coupled w/extreme corruption, government poorly designed programs, and rising inflation insures that Argentina will be going into the toilet.

Prices are freaking crazy on everything. Food produce is very expensive, real estate is pricey, gas is pricey, and incomes are much lower. Tourism will be there, but I foresee a cut-back because of the higher than normal prices. Prices aren't that much cheaper than the states/canada for tourists.

I might check things out there, will be in Brazil. I doubt this is true brah...you can still get a good apt. with everything included, in a central location, for maybe $800/month; I lived well there for $1500/month a few years ago and I doubt things have changed that much. You can get a good rate for the dollar on the black market.

What DVY said is pretty spot on.

I'm living in Argentina right now, I highly doubt you will find a centrally located apt with everything included for $800/month..unless its a studio that isn't all that great. Inflation is running about 30% per year. The blue rate as they call it, does help a bit as the spread between the blue and the official rate is about 50%..but things still aren't all that cheap. Compared to SP or Rio it is a bargain though.

You can look on craigslist, you'll definitely still find places for $750-$900 in good areas, clean and reformed, with utilities, internet, and weekly cleaning included. I think that's a pretty good deal, even if it's a large-ish studio. But you can find 1 br. for those prices too if you look around some more...
Even in 2008 there were lots of ripoff prices for apts.
As for living cost, maybe it's more expensive now...but aside from rent I don't really have big living costs. I may head back there soon to check things out; in Sao Paulo now, it's awfully expensive, not to mention it's a crap city.