[Amante]

"No matter what I get, whether I'm sleeping with my dream girl in Brazil or killing it in Poland, I always want more and better. It's a sickness that I don't know how to solve." - Roosh Bang Ukraine

For the last 10 years Roosh have been trying to find in sex what is not there. Sex is great and it feels good but it's like a drug. It's effect is temporary in nature. I can't remember what it's like to have sex with most of the women I have had sex with or what it felt like. As men whether we realize it or not, we need more than sex. We need to feel loved and we need to feel "connected" to people. Sex can't give us this.

There is a an emptiness in all of us that only being loved and connected can fill. You can "bang" a hundred women and at the end still feel empty and alone. While good sex is great it is only one of our needs and it cannot replace our need to be loved and feel a deep connection with others. And while I cannot really remember what is was like to have sex with the women in my past I can never forget the deep love and connection I have had with some of them.

[kinjutsu]

After having spent the last 7 years of my life knowing game. The concept of love is a double edged sword. A girl can say she loves her boyfriend/husband and not 1 hour later be sucking off some random dude. The concept of love is a fallacy that exists in the blue pill mind. If you are ignorant to the true nature if a hypergamous female in her sexual prime you can love her so long as you are ignorant. Love is a female concept anyway. Look at all the media propaganda directed at women about finding true love and all that non-sense.

Conversely look at what makes a man happy/fulfilled...
Speak to an experienced player they'll always remember the chase or hunt for the girl. The difficulties they had to overcome for the notch or the circumstances of the pull.
We built shit. We conquer shit. The only people we can "love" will be our blood family ie brother/sister, mother/father, and our children.

Now dont get me wrong you can have an awesome LTR relationship with a great girl however, because you know how a woman can be you'll never truly be able to let your guard down.

[Amante]

"The concept of love is a fallacy that exists in the blue pill mind."

Sex and love are two different things. You can love someone and not have sex with them or have sex with someone you do not love. The problem is not either sex or love BUT our distorted understanding and mixing of these two concepts. Regards of your view on American women, it does not invalidate my premise that we have an innate need to be loved.

PS I think our traditional concepts of "relationships" is inherently flawed, can't work...

[cardguy]

I don't believe in love. And I am incapable of it. Romantic love that is (I have love for friends and family).

Now before people get the idea that I am a psychopath. Let me say this.

Most examples of 'love' I see in the media and in life are just betas idealising and pedastalising women who they can't get. Or only get after years of creeping through the friend zone - just before the woman hits the wall.

Fuck dat' shit.

Sorry if that is harsh. But I try and accept things the way they truly are. It's play or be played.

I think 'love' is an incantation that betas use to make themselves feel better. Imagine a guy who was heartbroken over a girl. Who was then magicially given the ability to sleep with any girl in the world. He would forget about the bitch in a heartbeat.

Briffault's Law is a much better paradigm to operate under. I'm afraid too many guys are being misguided by the faulty thinking fed to them by the media.

And when you question it people think you are a psychopath. I remember telling a friend of mine who is a Catholic priest that I didn't believe in god. He couldn't care less. I then wait on to tell him that I didn't believe in romantic love either. He looked horrified.

In an age where more and more people don't believe in the church and god. It seems that romantic love is truly the last remaining religion of our age.

[Amante]

@CardGuy

1. Just because you do not believe in something does not mean it does not exist for others. If the concept was so completely invalid, as you believe, marriage would not exist.

2. There is only one love. The love you hold for your mother and family is no different than your notion of "romantic love." What is romantic love devoid of sex?

3. Most of the great men throughout history has expressed a deep love for at least one woman. Are all of these men "betas"? Loving a woman does not make you beta or alpha. Those are concepts that exist outside of love and has to do with the kind of man you are.

Now, with those said, I don't believe in the concept of traditional romantic love but I do believe in love.

[cardguy]

I don't believe in ghosts or reincarnation. And if somebody else tells me that they do, or that they have directly experienced this it wouldn't do much to convince me.

Secondly - I think there is a difference between romantic love, and the love we have for family and friends. Romantic love is an idea which has being around for a few hundred years and our perception of it is shaped by our culture. Indeed - people have only recently started to marry because of 'love'. For most of history - marriage was a way of consolidating wealth for future generations. By the way - I recently came across a book describing this, which I may read soon:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Marriage-History...014303667X

Whereas the love we have for friends and family goes back hundreds of thousands of years. Is found in most species of animal. And is formed in us through evolution.

I enjoy trying to be as sceptical about our western culture, as we tend to be about others. It is easy to sneer at places like North Korea - yet I find it instructive to consider what mass beliefs are spread and promoted in our society? And where those ideas came from and why they are so important to people.

A friend of mine fell in love with a Japanese girl he met. They married soon afterwards. Even though her ability to speak English was pretty minimal (as was his at speaking Japanese). To me this is a case of people being in love with the idea of being in love. And finding somebody or indeed anybody to fill the role of 'the person I am in love with'.

I could go on some more. But it is a big topic. And I only want to try and give a flavour of some of my reasoning. I have discussed this in the past with others - and afters hours of discussion I still felt I had only begun to scratch the surface.

[Amante]

Granted to have a constructive discussion we would have to agree on the premise: what exactly is love as it pertains to intimate relationships. By it's very nature, it is a vague concept that has been left deliberately so by our society.

Still my point was not so much this as that sex and love are distinct entities and that we need both.

Personally, I do not subscribe to or implement "romantic love." For me there is only one love and it's expression varies based on the person and various other factors.

[cardguy]

Yeah - this is such a complex area. Indeed - I still haven't fully settled on my own take.

Maybe we can extend the discussion out a bit?

I would be interested to hear how other readers' perception of romantic love has being challenged by swallowing the red pill.

[tiggaling]

I think 60 years of Challenge makes some very valid points in his work, that women will not be affectionate or really connect UNTIL they have sex with you. He proposes that men are primarily seeking affection, and not "sex" afterall and that marriage is a contract for females to continually provide affection. He also says, that what females are selling in marriage, is often their purity or perceived ability to provide affection!

Sure, there can be experiences of love and connection during sex. Men can tend to be very reductionistic about it all however and reduce everything to the pussy. For sure, there is a lot more going on than as typically understood.

Romantic love appears like a kind of a biological trick and I think often creates too much attachment and expectation.

[Amante]

I agree that men are seeking affection without realizing it. Part of the fallacy of our social upbringing is that you are beta if you seek love and affection but Maslow clearly defines our need for both for both sex and love.

[Screwston]

Love is a great feeling and I want to feel it again one day now that I know how to control myself and not get heartbroken. I haven't met a girl I really connected with and felt something for in about 6 years.

[tiggaling]

One thing I've noticed with Real alphas, like really heavy guys, gangsters, guys who heaps of money/power, is that they can go really "beta", in that they are not afraid of going soft and mushy, and sharing their true feelings, because what have they got to be afraid of? They let go of their "tough guy" persona to a degree, because they're already proved how tough and "alpha" they are to everyone in a 20 mile radius. They have nothing to prove and people might get confronted by them, about how honest they can be, but they really couldn't give a shit.

[Giovonny]

Sex is great. Love is great. Experience both as much as you can.

Soon, you will be dead.

[cardguy]

I was discussing this with my friend, Barbra Streisland.

She wanted to post on the thread - but I told her that Roosh says no chicks are allowed on the forum.

Instead I got her to post a video on youtube giving her point of view.

[Onto]

Every person deep down wants to be in love. When sex is used as an expression of intimacy, instead of a means to that end, it takes it to another level.

Edit: Mark Dillof wrote a superb book about the nature of erotic love. Though it's philosophical in nature, it's very accessible.

http://www.amazon.com/Awakening-Enemy-Or...0967825202

[Avon Barksdale]

When I had a weak Beta mindset I thought finding love was possible, but that just caused me to get my heartbroken by a girl . However after reading Roosh's stuff, ROK's, and just delving into the red pill, I am just to jaded about love with women

[cardguy]

I am not gay. But I always felt a stronger emotional bond with guys than with girls. I always found girls a bit boring and uninteresting.

The most funny and cool and interesting chick I have ever met. Is about equal to the fiftieth most funny, cool and interesting guy I have ever met.

And when you consider popular culture. I can think of about a thousand guys who are more brilliant than the most original woman I have seen in popular culture.

So - I never really understood love between men and women.

Women be boring. And the romantic love that gets celebrated is watered down beer compared to the fun times I have had hanging with the guys. When was the last time a chick said something that you laughed so hard you couldn't breathe?

[Akula]

(01-14-2013 10:17 PM)Screwston Wrote:  

Love is a great feeling and I want to feel it again one day now that I know how to control myself and not get heartbroken. I haven't met a girl I really connected with and felt something for in about 6 years.

I'm kinda like this too. I miss that puppy-love feeling I got with girls many years ago. I think now that I'm more in touch with reality and 'the game' but it would be nice to find a chick I'm really into.

But i'm not sure if I'll ever really have that same punch drunk love feeling about anyone ever again. That's probably a bit of a good thing. Maybe I guess if we had a kid it would happen? Let's face it in any case it would only be for a short while before things change and the responsibilities of life bring you back to reality.