[ryanf]

I've had a FWB situation with a girl for about a month now. I have generally been running aloof/asshole game with her the whole time, and it seems to have worked out well. She has a 0% flake rate, accepts my weekday only invites every time, gives up the lay every time, a good FWB. Problem is, last night we hung out, and we grabbed drinks (alternating paying for rounds, of course). After getting back to her place, I started trying to get down to business. She stopped me, and said, "not until you say something nice about me." I refused to play into her frame, withdrawing my attention. Usually this works when she does something I don't like, but she would not relent. So I took my stuff and left. The following text conversation then occurred:

Her: "I'm not worth saying one nice thing? Ouch."
Me: "I don't play those games"
Her: "Not a game. Just trying not to feel terrible about myself"
Me: "k"
Her: "Lol k. Sorry I like to know the guy likes the view before showing it off."
Me: ...radio silence...
Her (next morning): "Sorry if I was a little harsh at the end of the night, you make me a lil self conscious. I had a lot of fun, thanks for taking me out "
Me: "Apology accepted. But you make you self conscious."
Her: "Blah blah (basically I feel slutty when you don't compliment me)"
Me: "I don't give out compliments when they are demanded"
Her: "You don't give them out period. Blah blah (She's being light hearted, but says she doesn't want to have sex if she feels slutty, and feels slutty when I don't compliment)"
Me: "Well I don't give in to manipulation"
Her: "Lol. I noticed. You're very strong willed."
Me: ...radio silence again...

I like the situation we have, but she might be putting too much emotion into this thing. If she bails, she bails. More week time to go find more. But I do like having a guaranteed fuck once a week.

What do you guys think? How should I proceed?

Thanks in advance for the advice

[rudebwoy]

She wants to know she is more to you than a fuck. A cheesy compliment would not hurt you and keep the ball rolling.

[ryanf]

(01-11-2013 08:16 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

She wants to know she is more to you than a fuck. A cheesy compliment would not hurt you and keep the ball rolling.

I'm willing to give a little, but I'm worried about supplicating by giving it to her after she made a big mess about it. How should I go about giving in a little?

[Hotwheels]

Not buying drinks while you're fucking her.

Too worried about "supplicating".

The rules are not ironclad. Don't follow them quite so rigidly.

Tell her you love her tits while you suck on em or something.

[theIVth]

You shoulda just gave her a compliment and then smashed. Done deal. I think your unintentionally over gaming at this point and being a little too cerebral. She's already down with you and was gone let you smash that night. What more you want? Lol

[ryanf]

(01-11-2013 08:27 PM)Hotwheels Wrote:  

The rules are not ironclad. Don't follow them quite so rigidly.

Yeah, I'm newer to the game, and especially to Roosh/Roissy type game. This girl openly admitted to not being attracted to "nice" guys, in fact I first met/smashed after I stole her right out from some manboob she was parading around with on the beach outside a nightclub.

In retrospect, I probably could have given in without suffering too many consequences (i.e. looking like a puss), but I didn't. Now I'm trying to figure out how to "save frame".

[xsplat]

There are different aspects of game that can seem contradictory.

Consider "selling her the dream". She's asking you straight up - please sell me the dream!

She wants you to invest at least a smidgen of genuine emotion into the situation. Do you have that in you? If you do, this would be the time to let yourself go a bit. At least enough to maintain her interest.

The rules of engagement change as you enter into LTRs, and you are in an LTR now. Even if you call it FWB.

[Beyond Borders]

Yeah, it sounds to me also like you might be clowning on her a bit too much too. I slip into that mode sometimes too, but when you combine too much cockiness with the aloofness it can make women pretty insecure. Just pretend the conversation never happened and ease up on the heckles, say the ocaissonal nice thing, etc.

By the way, around about one month is when most women start getting emotionally attached, even if they say friends with benefits is good enough. They're not very good at the actual practice of the concept because of their emotional natures.

Just my experience.

At this point the games begin and you either work harder to keep her in check, decide to seriously date her, or cut her loose. A shame, but true.

(01-12-2013 03:35 AM)xsplat Wrote:  

The rules of engagement change as you enter into LTRs, and you are in an LTR now. Even if you call it FWB.

Well said!

[Duke Castile]

(01-11-2013 08:19 PM)ryanf Wrote:  

(01-11-2013 08:16 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

She wants to know she is more to you than a fuck. A cheesy compliment would not hurt you and keep the ball rolling.

I'm willing to give a little, but I'm worried about supplicating by giving it to her after she made a big mess about it. How should I go about giving in a little?

You're forgetting the formula. It isn't just "aloof" It's "amused aloof".

"baby, one of the things I like about you is when you get demanding, now come here and let me love on you"

You could have played that a hundred ways where you were playful and gave her compliments on so many things.

"I think you have the nicest earlobes this side of the Mississippi, and those tits are fighting for first place"

Have fun man!

[XXL]

You said it out loud "I don't give out compliments when they are demanded", she tested you on that, you passed, good job, so now you can only stay 100% congruent to that. So when she persist again you can't give in but when YOU feel like saying something nice about her you absolutely can. It will have stronger effect. But if you do it keep in mind that she will probably ask why you tell her something nice and the only way to beat that shittest is to convey that YOU feel like saying it, that it's not because of her demands but your will, on your terms.

[TheMan]

(01-12-2013 03:54 AM)Fisto Wrote:  

"I think you have the nicest earlobes this side of the Mississippi, and those tits are fighting for first place"

[relo]

Roosh actually wrote about this in bang if I remember correctly.

I'd go ahead and give her a sincere compliment.

[ryanf]

Lots of good advice points here. Too many to quote. Big thanks guys, I think I'll have to find an appropriate time to give her a genuine compliment, on my terms. I do get the feeling that once she realizes this isn't going anywhere serious, she'll bail. That's why I'm reserving my weekends for spinning plates.

[Chewbacon]

tell her she has an assterpiece.

[ryanf]

(01-13-2013 07:40 AM)SHANbangs Wrote:  

tell her she has an assterpiece.

She does have a spectacularly nice ass. I think I'm actually going to go with a compliment related to that.

[Ensam]

Is her ego based around her being smart or being hot?

Whichever it is, compliment the other.

[silverbullit]

Fake a little love. Get the hamster spinning

[thegmanifesto]

(01-11-2013 08:19 PM)ryanf Wrote:  

(01-11-2013 08:16 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

She wants to know she is more to you than a fuck. A cheesy compliment would not hurt you and keep the ball rolling.

I'm willing to give a little, but I'm worried about supplicating by giving it to her after she made a big mess about it. How should I go about giving in a little?

I have known a lot of cool guys in my life that do very well with women.

There is not a single one of those guys that uses the word "supplicating".

And I can promise you that none of them have ever worried about "supplicating".

I would venture to bet that most of them don't even know what "supplicating" is.

[ryanf]

(01-13-2013 06:01 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(01-11-2013 08:19 PM)ryanf Wrote:  

(01-11-2013 08:16 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

She wants to know she is more to you than a fuck. A cheesy compliment would not hurt you and keep the ball rolling.

I'm willing to give a little, but I'm worried about supplicating by giving it to her after she made a big mess about it. How should I go about giving in a little?

I have known a lot of cool guys in my life that do very well with women.

There is not a single one of those guys that uses the word "supplicating".

And I can promise you that none of them have ever worried about "supplicating".

I would venture to bet that most of them don't even know what "supplicating" is.

I'm not a natural, I'm doing the best that I know how.

[n0000]

Guys, this girl is not a monster. Delivering a sincere compliment every once in awhile will not impugn your "alpha cred". If you try too hard to be alpha it will not work. Letting her know that you love her dimples when she smiles is as much a part of charm as not trying too hard to get her attention. This girl wants to feel some human warmth from you instead of feeling that the relationship is so adversarial. The reason that heartiste and most of the other guys emphasize the aloofness is that your average guy is not at all and is willing to do ridiculous things for girls he has just met.

[xsplat]

(01-13-2013 06:36 PM)ryanf Wrote:  

(01-13-2013 06:01 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(01-11-2013 08:19 PM)ryanf Wrote:  

(01-11-2013 08:16 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

She wants to know she is more to you than a fuck. A cheesy compliment would not hurt you and keep the ball rolling.

I'm willing to give a little, but I'm worried about supplicating by giving it to her after she made a big mess about it. How should I go about giving in a little?

I have known a lot of cool guys in my life that do very well with women.

There is not a single one of those guys that uses the word "supplicating".

And I can promise you that none of them have ever worried about "supplicating".

I would venture to bet that most of them don't even know what "supplicating" is.

I'm not a natural, I'm doing the best that I know how.

Actually, I think your instinct is pretty good about not following orders. My girl has felt insecure a few times and asked me to tell her that I love her, and I just say "don't ask me that." You're right that its a bit rude to ask for something that is meant to be given freely. When I feel put upon that way I also can get a bit harsh about it, and just want to shut her down.

But you still have to be responsible for the overall mood. Unless you want her to be so full of dread that she just gives up hope of ever reeling you in, your job is to keep her hopes and dreams alive - to make her feel appreciated.

Women don't trade sex for sex for any type of LTRs, for the most part. They trade it for cash and commitment. Oh, sometimes a fuck buddy will keep it light as she's seeing other guys, but that's the exception to the rule. Girls get attached, and you need to deal with that attachment delicately, by using it to instill dread, but mostly by using it to instill a warm affection of joy and pleasure and security. It's a tightrope act.

Or, one night stand game and LTR game is different. You have to satisfy more of her emotional needs.

[soup]

Game oscillates from pushing the girl away (attraction) to pulling her in (comfort). You need to learn when it is appropriate to use these.

I believe an example is to be a cocky asshole when she's at the beginning of her period and then to be a nice guy when she's in the middle of it.

You want to be able to pre-empt the kind of shit she's pulling. It's like when you are kissing a girl and you can tell that she's going to pull away soon and you need to pull away first or you forfeit.

Girls want to get swept off their feet so that when they slut it up, they won't have remorse. They will be able to look back and say "it just happened". You're job is to create as seamless an experience possible and to build the momentum so that she doesn't get a chance to test you like that. You want to at least two steps ahead of her in the game; you want her hamster chasing you, but you can't let it get you.

[theycallmebob]

(01-11-2013 08:41 PM)ryanf Wrote:  

(01-11-2013 08:27 PM)Hotwheels Wrote:  

The rules are not ironclad. Don't follow them quite so rigidly.

Yeah, I'm newer to the game, and especially to Roosh/Roissy type game. This girl openly admitted to not being attracted to "nice" guys, in fact I first met/smashed after I stole her right out from some manboob she was parading around with on the beach outside a nightclub.

In retrospect, I probably could have given in without suffering too many consequences (i.e. looking like a puss), but I didn't. Now I'm trying to figure out how to "save frame".

Well, when in doubt do what roissy hath commanded: after this episode has ended and she stops bitching, pull out an unexpected compliment. She will value it 100x more than if you gave it to her because she asked.

[thegmanifesto]

(01-13-2013 06:36 PM)ryanf Wrote:  

(01-13-2013 06:01 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(01-11-2013 08:19 PM)ryanf Wrote:  

(01-11-2013 08:16 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

She wants to know she is more to you than a fuck. A cheesy compliment would not hurt you and keep the ball rolling.

I'm willing to give a little, but I'm worried about supplicating by giving it to her after she made a big mess about it. How should I go about giving in a little?

I have known a lot of cool guys in my life that do very well with women.

There is not a single one of those guys that uses the word "supplicating".

And I can promise you that none of them have ever worried about "supplicating".

I would venture to bet that most of them don't even know what "supplicating" is.

I'm not a natural, I'm doing the best that I know how.

Ok.

I apologize if that came off too harsh.

But yeah, ditch the word "supplicating" from your vocabulary.

Also, loosen up and have fun.

Swooping girls isn't a serious endeavor.

Make it enjoyable.

[WestCoast]

Fisto's response for sure

"You're so cute when you're demanding" with a slight smirk/grin.

Overall though, aloof is just more about doing what you want not necessarily about always being "hard willed".

As a last note, saying you don't want to lose her is a dangerous step in the wrong direction of dreaded monogamy.