[flyfree1980]

I just came across this today. To all asian looking or african american before you decide to go to greece
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20958353

I cant believe even when people vouch for an academic they continue. even US state dept issued a travel warning for tourist mistaken as illegals.

The worst part is handcuffed and punched. wow seems like its not some isolated incident. I even experianced a milder form of racism but i ignored as one case.

[bojangles]

yeah i saw this as well, pretty raw for an EU state.

[Greek kamaki]

Given that 50% of policemen in Greece vote for the radical neonazi party of Golden Dawn this is hardly a surprise.Actually violence is on the rise in Greece from both immigrants,police,radical left and radical right.

[ElJefe]

I've come to the opinion that police will always be somewhat fascist in their world-views - it's almost part of the job - they have to work and deal with shitty behavior and because they lack the intellectual depth (face it, most policemen are basically lower-class), they can't discern random from biased sampling.

Anyways, this is what you get when a liberal-progressive elite ignores for decades the laws of human nature, whether it's economics, culture, or what have you.

Welfare states, uninhibited third-world immigration, radical liberalism. If they had done their job and not destroyed the country, this would be a non-issue.

The consequences of liberal policies on steroids (as we have seen in the West for decades now) is not just economic collapse and decline. It's the far more insidious and dangerous reactionary backlash untempered by more insightful and non-populist conservatism.

[Greek kamaki]

Immigrants by and large are considered responsible for the crisis by a large percentage of Greek population.So when they see a coloured their intentions are not the best to say the least.Government came under force by radical right activists to employ deportation of illegal immigrants.The situation is quite complex.

[The Duke]

In Uzbekistan the police detained me in the metro, and then again in the airport on the way out. It's self-defeating for a country to treat tourists poorly. But then maybe discouraging tourism is good for those looking for untapped poosy paradises

I'm in India at the moment. India is backward but at least the police and airport officials are generally very cool with tourists and people here on business. We get better treatment than the locals. I wonder the government here as given a directive to police to not mess with foreigners.

[Caligula]

European liberals will soon have to face that you can have either open borders or a welfare state. It is impossible to have both at the same time.

[Greek kamaki]

Exactly this is the trick.The welfare state is not possible without the cheap labour of illegal immigrants.This is the reason the left parties are in favour of mass immigration.The other reason is the hope to get the votes of the immigrants when they get citizenship.
Capitalist parties are also in favour of the immigrants since they produce profits for the big business.
So the only antiimmigrant formation is the radical right that is why neonazis have become so popular they have pressed every other side to support illegal immigration openly or hiddenly.
It is very complex situation and an explosive one due to crisis effects.(many people attribute their unemployment state to cheap illegal labour).

[Greek kamaki]

Exactly this is the trick.The welfare state is not possible without the cheap labour of illegal immigrants.This is the reason the left parties are in favour of mass immigration.The other reason is the hope to get the votes of the immigrants when they get citizenship.

[nomis69]

(01-10-2013 06:17 AM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  

Immigrants by and large are considered responsible for the crisis by a large percentage of Greek population.So when they see a coloured their intentions are not the best to say the least.Government came under force by radical right activists to employ deportation of illegal immigrants.The situation is quite complex.

Serious?

Why not Goldman Sachs and other Elite Banksters and corrupt puppet politicians within?

[billy]

Greeks are famous around Europe for many things, Hospitality to the 'right' kind of tourist, attempting to chat up peoples women as soon as they go to the toilet, great places to eat the cuisine they learnt about from Turkey, and an all round charisma and friendly nature that is missing from many western European countries. They are also known for racism dishonesty corruption and tax dodging. Greece needed a bailout because of Greek people and politicians being dishonest nothing more or less but like all countries that have hard times they decide to blame the immigrants.

[The Fantasist]

(01-10-2013 07:31 AM)nomis69 Wrote:  

(01-10-2013 06:17 AM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  

Immigrants by and large are considered responsible for the crisis by a large percentage of Greek population.So when they see a coloured their intentions are not the best to say the least.Government came under force by radical right activists to employ deportation of illegal immigrants.The situation is quite complex.

Serious?

Why not Goldman Sachs and other Elite Banksters and corrupt puppet politicians within?

Because the average man on the street doesn't have a handle on how the banking system works and besides how do they vent their anger on a bank? On the other hand they can see an immigrant and easily vent their anger on them. Also there is no doubting that unchecked immigration is putting strain on European countries however the targets of people's anger should not be the immigrant himself who is merely doing what we would all do if we lived in a hopeless shit hole,but instead the politicians who have allowed it to go on.

[Damedius]

I have a feeling that Greece is just the tip of the iceberg. This going to spread to other EU countries as they go through the same pains Greece does. As unemployment rises, the blame will be deflected onto immigrants.

[Wreckingball]

Governments cannot support leeching citizens. and that's what happens in greece (and many other EU countries).
Several come to work, do something, while others come to leech and reap social benefits without producing. Unfortunately, due to the human mind, we take the worst example as norm.

[Arado]

Can't also ignore the fact that Greece is very uncompetitive compared to Germany and Northern Europe, and their average productivity and education level is much lower. The attitude that Greeks take towards immigrants is the same way that they're viewed by the more efficient Northern European economies. So I'm amused by their claims that immigrants are responsible for their fiscal disaster.

[Partizan]

(01-10-2013 09:26 AM)Vorkuta Wrote:  

(01-10-2013 07:31 AM)nomis69 Wrote:  

(01-10-2013 06:17 AM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  

Immigrants by and large are considered responsible for the crisis by a large percentage of Greek population.So when they see a coloured their intentions are not the best to say the least.Government came under force by radical right activists to employ deportation of illegal immigrants.The situation is quite complex.

Serious?

Why not Goldman Sachs and other Elite Banksters and corrupt puppet politicians within?

Because the average man on the street doesn't have a handle on how the banking system works and besides how do they vent their anger on a bank? On the other hand they can see an immigrant and easily vent their anger on them. Also there is no doubting that unchecked immigration is putting strain on European countries however the targets of people's anger should not be the immigrant himself who is merely doing what we would all do if we lived in a hopeless shit hole,but instead the politicians who have allowed it to go on.

One of my old former History professors in uni who wrote extensively about fascism put forward the theory that the Far Right is actively supported and encouraged by the banker and capitalist elites and industrialists as a way of dividing the working classes and deflecting attention away from their own misdeeds by either inventing and identifying enemies of scapegoats. Just as the Jews did in Germany in the 1930s and 40s, Irish in the UK and US in the 19th and early 20th centuries, dark skinned immigrants fit the bill nicely. He used the example of the Italian Corporate state under Mussolini (1922-43), the coming together of the state and big business along with suppression of political parties and trade unions and the cosy relationship between the Industrialists and bankers in Nazi Germany (1932-45). The original Nazi Party of the 1920s was very much anti-capitalist in nature and it was only after the elimination of Ernst Rohm and the SA in the Night of the Long Knives did the NSDAP fully accept and was co-opted by the capitalist class.

Of course little mention is made by populist Far Right forces like Golden Dawn of the banking, political elites and family dynasties in both PASOK and the ND parties who ran Greece into the ground for decades and encouraged widespread crony capitalist corruption and mass tax evasion among the general population. The Greek elite have long since withdrawn their billions to Switzerland and are waiting in the wings to buy up the infrastructure of the country for a song and become the new neo-feudal masters over an indebted and enslaved population.

The only way for Greece to come out of this is to reboot the entire system, i.e. default, reintroduce the Drachma and change the entire economic and political system.

[Joga Bonito]

The irony is that those same European governments that cry about illegal immigrants, won't take up the blame for blasting the economies of said illegal immigrants back into the stone age or stop being a destructive force in the development of those developing countries. Subversion and natural resource hoarding, in addition to many other factors propogated by multinationals and the governments of countries in which those multinationals reside have led to this. Its rational that immigrants would head to Europe where they have loose cultural ties(like language from being colonized), as seen in many African countries for example. Of course these factors are almost never discussed and completely overlooked in most cases.

[Sherman]

Greece has always been an iffy place to go. I canceled my plane trip twice due to riots and finally got to go to Athens for a few days. When I was there, I saw these two Asian gangs have a street fight right underneath my window hitting each other with bats and then when the police came everyone disappeared. The only reason I went there is because I just had to see Athens once in my life.

Here is the Acropolis from my hotel window.

   

[GameTheory]

(01-10-2013 05:21 AM)flyfree1980 Wrote:  

I just came across this today. To all asian looking or african american before you decide to go to greece
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20958353

I cant believe even when people vouch for an academic they continue. even US state dept issued a travel warning for tourist mistaken as illegals.

The worst part is handcuffed and punched. wow seems like its not some isolated incident. I even experianced a milder form of racism but i ignored as one case.

tourists will avoid Greece and the economy will sufer even more

[Greek kamaki]

The situation is complicated because Greece is the first pass into the continent for many illegal immigrants coming from Pakistan,Bangladesh,Arab and African countries through the borders with Turkey.After the treaty Dublin 2 which Greek government cosigned in the early 2000s all those hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants who pass the borders and come to Greece are given papers with name Greece written on them as country of residence.They are free to declare which country they come from but Greek authorities have no right to send them to western Europe where most of them want to come.
When they cross the Greek borders and appear in western European EU states they get arrested and sent back to Greece.Now it is estimated that only in Athens 1.5 million illegal immigrants or more reside.Whole regions have been completely occupied by them driving house prices to record lows.(noone wants to live there).As compensation the Greek state gets 1000 euro from EU for every illegal immigrant held in Greece.(probably because they need a reservoir of them but do not wish the flooding of their countries by them).Since the corrupted authorities get some billions of euros for the presence of the illegal immigrants they let them.Big mafia does golden business in Athens where it is estimated that 1 million Kalashnikovs are hidden.Often groups of gangs collide Afghans against Pakistanis Algerians against Africans etc.Robberies and violent crimes have increased dramatically.Some scary murders have taken place and lots of weird things happen totally out of connection with Greek mentality.

The population usually reacts with pogrom and violence against illegal immigrants everytime a new extravagant murder of Greeks takes place by them.It is an explosive situation.Reality is in some regions the inhabitants are afraid to get out of their houses after 21.00.In many cases they call the Golden Dawn to clear as we say here to protect them.(eg an apartment owner of a home where 10 Africans live while it is rented to two persons asks them to leave and gets slapped,punched and beaten.He calls the police they say to him better call the Golden Dawn.The Golden Dawn members appear,give some ''friendly advice'' and the next day the apartment is delivered to the owner clean and with walls freshly painted by the immigrants.Or a guy loses his job after his boss decides to emply cheaper illegal immigrants he makes a call to the Golden Dawn,the Golden Dawn members have a ''friendly discussion'' with the boss to who they explain the need to employ Greeks.The boss convinced by their advice calls the next day the guy in question to employ him again.The latter becomes a grateful voter of the Golden Dawn.)

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/01/world/...d=all&_r=0

Golden Dawn members hunting and stabbing illegal immigrants after three Afghanis killed in cold a Greek guy whose wife was about to get to the hospital to give birth.They killed him to take his video camera which he carried to record the birth.

[tomtud]

Desperate times = desperate measures

At the end of WWI, the treaty of Versailles started the downfall of Germany leading to hyperinflation. This has allowed an individual like Hitler to come to power eventually. Not saying Greeks have their own "final solution" but the leaders need to be weary of history repeating itself on a smaller scale.

Greeks are fighting for the preservation of their culture and livelihood. Being so close to the Muslim world and being in constant battles even dealing with the Cyprus issue, Muslim (arab,black) looking individuals my be targeted. The illegals come from cultures that don't mesh well with Greek culture. Nationalism brings people together in desperate times. It's leaning towards fascism unfortunately.

[CJ_W]

It really seems like you guys are just making up excuses for Greece. . .and that's just annoying. Everyone gets on Americans for all sorts of things, but when other people in other coutries do it much worse, it becomes: " oh its complicated" "it's not really the (insert national citizen's fault)"

I'm sorry but THERE IS NO EXCUSE for this! It's 2013 for crying out loud, in a EUROPEAN country! Yeah I know Greece is going through hard times, but wouldn't be a good idea to welcome tourists (and their money)instead of. . .beat them? I'm a person of color and really I don't intend to ever to go a place like this. I don't intend to sugar coat it and be like "yeah, if you're not white, you'll get beaten until you're hospitalized by the cops and nothing will happen to the cops, but hey it's not the geeks fault! It's the fault of the illegal immigrants, and the politics and bad economy!"

Are you guys fucking serious?

[tomtud]

(01-10-2013 09:02 AM)billy Wrote:  

Greeks are famous around Europe for many things, Hospitality to the 'right' kind of tourist, attempting to chat up peoples women as soon as they go to the toilet, great places to eat the cuisine they learnt about from Turkey, and an all round charisma and friendly nature that is missing from many western European countries. They are also known for racism dishonesty corruption and tax dodging. Greece needed a bailout because of Greek people and politicians being dishonest nothing more or less but like all countries that have hard times they decide to blame the immigrants.

Racism exists in every country. Aside from that you hit the nail on the head. I just wonder if anybody on this forum cracked a Greek guy over the head when he did that weasel act of talking t his girl when he stepped away for a second?

[Aliblahba]

(03-09-2013 10:36 AM)tomtud Wrote:  

(01-10-2013 09:02 AM)billy Wrote:  

Greeks are famous around Europe for many things, Hospitality to the 'right' kind of tourist, attempting to chat up peoples women as soon as they go to the toilet, great places to eat the cuisine they learnt about from Turkey, and an all round charisma and friendly nature that is missing from many western European countries. They are also known for racism dishonesty corruption and tax dodging. Greece needed a bailout because of Greek people and politicians being dishonest nothing more or less but like all countries that have hard times they decide to blame the immigrants.

Racism exists in every country. Aside from that you hit the nail on the head. I just wonder if anybody on this forum cracked a Greek guy over the head when he did that weasel act of talking t his girl when he stepped away for a second?

I haven't, but did notice Emech has a lot of scars on his noggin'.

[Hooligan Harry]

(03-09-2013 09:49 AM)CJ_W Wrote:  

It really seems like you guys are just making up excuses for Greece. . .and that's just annoying. Everyone gets on Americans for all sorts of things, but when other people in other coutries do it much worse, it becomes: " oh its complicated" "it's not really the (insert national citizen's fault)"

I'm sorry but THERE IS NO EXCUSE for this! It's 2013 for crying out loud, in a EUROPEAN country! Yeah I know Greece is going through hard times, but wouldn't be a good idea to welcome tourists (and their money)instead of. . .beat them? I'm a person of color and really I don't intend to ever to go a place like this. I don't intend to sugar coat it and be like "yeah, if you're not white, you'll get beaten until you're hospitalized by the cops and nothing will happen to the cops, but hey it's not the geeks fault! It's the fault of the illegal immigrants, and the politics and bad economy!"

Are you guys fucking serious?

More than 10% of the entire population consists of illegal immigrants now.

Youth unemployment is pushing 60%, overall unemployment is sitting at 27% or so. Refugees from Africa and the Middle east have poured through because Turkey literally funnels them into Greece. Not only that, but they have been an absolute crime wave. Crime in the major cities has reached ridiculous proportions and a substantial chunk of this is both legal and illegal immigrants. Im talking armed robberies, gang rape, assaults, you name it.

Whats happening is damn nasty, but Greece has basically been invaded. The response is the wrong one because its innocent people being caught up in violence, but its to be expected eventually. You cant expect the Greek nationals to take it up the ass forever and hand their country over while their own people suffer. Something has got to give. They never agreed to or voted for open borders.

Chalk it up to the end result of rampant leftism. Shit is going to hit the fan there soon. Western papers are under reporting on Golden Dawn, but they are seeing massive turnouts and support now.