[speakeasy]

This is a followup on my post here.

It's frustrating as hell to meet what seems like a cool chic, have a good time talking, have good kino, make no major mistakes, then you get the number and the girl never calls or texts back.

This is what I'm going to do going forward. If all is going well, I'm going to try and set up a date right there. After getting the number I'm going to say, "let's say we meetup for a drink after work this week, when are you free?" If the chemistry is good, I don't see why she wouldn't. Then I'm going to say, "let me ask you something, on a scale of 0-10, what's the chance that you're going to flake out? I'd rather know upfront." Say it with firmness and confidence. This is an anti-flake tip I'd read once from David DeAngelo. If she gives some wishy-washy answer, then say, "you know what, never mind then." Then at that point, she may try to qualify herself to you and say that she will show. What do you guys think? I'm going to start making that part of my number close game. Don't walk away without having a date setup right there and then. Then make the girl qualify herself to YOU that she's not a flake.

[AlphaQup2nite]

Flakes are a part of the game. They will occur. Best to do is just pick up and move on. I dont want a flaky girl. Hell if a girl is more than 15 min late without a reasonable explanation, im gone, and so is her number. Keep high standards for yourself in this case, and let them shine in your conversation. You will attract less girls with flaky tenancies.

[OGNorCal707]

Just read Roosh's blog post on women's flakiness, he's back on point with some Sigmund Freud meets the Buddha shit... For real this flaking shit has gotten out of control, have women always been this bad? I must admit that I kind of do like Roosh's perspective when it comes to this PUA buisness, it's a very Buddhist philosophy, kind of like accepting that you will face failures (rejections, flakes, etc.), and just letting go and not giving a fuck so to speak (detaching from outcomes, letting go of ego/desire), unfortunately for me this stuff makes sense in theory, but is hard to fully internalize and put into practice. I think I mentioned before that one of the best thing that I got out of "Bang" is that rejection is inevitable and happens to the best of players, but where I'm at is after so many rejections, getting numbers, and getting flaked on, it often leaves me feeling downtrodden, and kills my motivation to continue, but I guess if you don't ever try, you will never succeed.

[speakeasy]

Well I was talking to my main wing about the flaking situation and we concluded that it has gotten a lot worse in the last few years. We were reminiscing about being in our early 20s. We are both 33 now. We remember when it was actually a big deal to get a girl's number. If you got a number your friends damn near high fived you after leaving the bar. These days, girls give their numbers as easily as they give out change to a bum. It's simply no big deal, they give it out but most likely, they won't pick up or return the call. I'm serious, it didn't use to be this bad. I'm talking to guys out in the field and they are talking about the same shit. There has been quite a bit of change in women. Sure you might've gotten something like this if a girl didn't like you, or you were being really forceful and it's obvious she wasn't into it, maybe she'd give you the number just to get rid of you. But now, shit...you can vibe with a girl for a good hour, get the number and there may be a 50/50 chance she'll return your call. I understand what Roosh is saying about accepting the fact that women are flakes and fickle-minded, but I can only accept it up until a point before I start getting pissed off.

[wolf]

I read in one of your posts that you lived in cali, that's your problem right there.

I live in Cali too so now I laugh every time I hear a flake coming or get flaked on. Which is all the time here lol.

I don't emotionally involve myself with women before sex, sometimes even after sex. A flake to me is like a sneeze, I forget about it 2 seconds later and go about my business.

I heard everything from "let me give you a call right back", "i'm not flaking on you"(She then never sent me another text after that one) and so on.

[speakeasy]

(04-22-2010 08:56 PM)wolf Wrote:  

I live in Cali too so now I laugh every time I hear a flake coming or get flaked on. Which is all the time here lol.

I don't emotionally involve myself with women before sex, sometimes even after sex. A flake to me is like a sneeze, I forget about it 2 seconds later and go about my business.

Yeah, L.A. is the belly of the beast when it comes to flaking culture. It's almost a way of life here. It sounds nearly as bad as what I hear guys saying about Argentina. I'm willing to bet it's way easier to go from phone number to bang in a place like Chicago.

It's not about getting emotionally involved. There's no emotion here for me in getting blown off by flakes. It's just the frustration of trying to make progress and having your progress stunted by shit that's out of your control, even when you ran flawless game. I'm looking for strategies to get around the flake. We just have to get creative and stay one step ahead of the girls.

[Giovonny]

(04-22-2010 08:13 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

Well I was talking to my main wing about the flaking situation and we concluded that it has gotten a lot worse in the last few years. We were reminiscing about being in our early 20s. We are both 33 now. We remember when it was actually a big deal to get a girl's number. If you got a number your friends damn near high fived you after leaving the bar. These days, girls give their numbers as easily as they give out change to a bum. It's simply no big deal, they give it out but most likely, they won't pick up or return the call. I'm serious, it didn't use to be this bad. I'm talking to guys out in the field and they are talking about the same shit. There has been quite a bit of change in women. Sure you might've gotten something like this if a girl didn't like you, or you were being really forceful and it's obvious she wasn't into it, maybe she'd give you the number just to get rid of you. But now, shit...you can vibe with a girl for a good hour, get the number and there may be a 50/50 chance she'll return your call. I understand what Roosh is saying about accepting the fact that women are flakes and fickle-minded, but I can only accept it up until a point before I start getting pissed off.

I like this concept. Anything that gets her to "qualify" herself to you is good.

We all know #'s don't mean very much.

There are so many guys out there approaching. I'm sure 7's and above get asked for their # 10 times on a Saturday night.

Thats why they are so flakey nowadays.

Giving out her # is just part of the evening. Its not much different from ordering appetizers or another round. Alot of the time they are just using us as "social proof". They don't want to be the grl who never gets approached by any guys. So they listen to your routines and smile and laugh. What else can she do? If she shoots you down or denies you the number you wil call her a bitch and then she will be scared that you are some pyscho. The easiest thing for them to do is just smile give you the #.

Just because she laughed at your jokes and told you a little about her hometown doesn't mean she wants to fuck or even talk to you again. Remember they are masters at "faking it".

They probably keep track of how many guys approach them and ask for their #. They love this shit too.

This why i like meeting girls at school, the gym, their work, etc. I can play it cool and build a connection over time. (i like the 3 week time frame)

My goal is never to get her #, my goal is to get her to say something like..."we should hang out"...or..."are you on Facebook". Once I hear this I know the # is just a formality. And she will return my call.

[wolf]

(04-22-2010 09:06 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(04-22-2010 08:56 PM)wolf Wrote:  

I live in Cali too so now I laugh every time I hear a flake coming or get flaked on. Which is all the time here lol.

I don't emotionally involve myself with women before sex, sometimes even after sex. A flake to me is like a sneeze, I forget about it 2 seconds later and go about my business.

Yeah, L.A. is the belly of the beast when it comes to flaking culture. It's almost a way of life here. It sounds nearly as bad as what I hear guys saying about Argentina. I'm willing to bet it's way easier to go from phone number to bang in a place like Chicago.

It's not about getting emotionally involved. There's no emotion here for me in getting blown off by flakes. It's just the frustration of trying to make progress and having your progress stunted by shit that's out of your control, even when you ran flawless game. I'm looking for strategies to get around the flake. We just have to get creative and stay one step ahead of the girls.

When I absolutely had no game before the act of flaking shook me to my core. I'm just starting to learn game but I think there are 3 alternatives to flaking.

-Improve your game more for less chance of flaking(game is infinite in growth)

-Move away from Cali. I grew up in Cali so I thought all women were like that, I was wrong. When I visited other states and it was surprising how everything was so much easier. Cali flaking is one of the worst( I even had one guy in Canada telling me about Cali flaking and he's never even been to Cali! LOL)

-This is just a theory but if you been chatting up some chick for 30min why not go on a insta-date with her right away. Go to several venues so she thinks like she knew you forever and then take her to your place or hers. By the time you call her back she'll forget about you and the 10 other guys that chatted her up and got her number. No offense but, since the girls are all flakey you're not the only guy that is a player, a lot of guys had to learn game. My friend is a player (68 chicks), his friend is a player (100+chicks), my cousin is a player that is in serious relationship, my other cousin who is a HERB (10-20 chicks), my other friend is a player (35-40chicks), so pretty much everyone I talk to is a player.

[lilactag]

I am more with Giovonny's view here.
Normally, girls that i ask number or give me their number, they actually sms me the next morning, a call is difficult, but sms is usual.

One thing I routinely do, is that if the approach went right, I ALWAYS mention something in the lines that I normally am not a slave of my mobile phone or my ears are sensitive so i dislike phone chatting...

Both in Central and South America and Central and North Europe, which are the places I spend most of my year, I don't have much problems of flakiness. Maybe I am lucky, or my statistics look good, because I almost never call them. But whenever i got their number (i do ask it), i get their sms hours later to thank me for the chat or something and then meet up.

Mainly, it is a matter of keeping yourself out of reach, make the illusion you are busy.

another thing i read above in this thread matces my modus operandi: I make sure they know I am punctual, no matter if in their culture punctuality is unimportant, I let them know if they are not there within 10-15mins, I am gone at a date. Once i even had a case of a girl coming to a coffee in her gym attire, because she lost track of time at the gym and saw her watch and a shower etc was not going to make it possible to arrive on time, she came agitated hehe
so it shows right away she values you.

There are many approaches to flakiness, but i think the end deal is never accept it, not even a little bit of it, be gone before they figure it out and move on. Women are not worth spending much time on them, unless they are exceptional, or they are your sugarmums

[Willy Wonka]

Yeah, this phone number flake shit is getting uber-ridiculous....

[kingkong]

Are you guys hitting up for digits anything that moves? I don't get all these flake reports. My game is like a five out of ten and I have zero flake-outs. I can only assume you guys are going for digits with girls who you didn't actually connect with on any level.

[Casanova]

ive been flaked on 3 times in 2 weeks. Roosh's book bang mentioned that game is a numbers game. The more women you approach and #s you get, the better the odds of not getting flaked on.

To the OP: your idea is a great idea and i will start experimenting with it. Shows you are are confident, dont put up with flakes, like someone earlier said, it makes her qualify herself. Not to mention it shows if she is really interested.

Good thread

[The_CEO]

(04-22-2010 08:13 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

Well I was talking to my main wing about the flaking situation and we concluded that it has gotten a lot worse in the last few years. We were reminiscing about being in our early 20s. We are both 33 now. We remember when it was actually a big deal to get a girl's number. If you got a number your friends damn near high fived you after leaving the bar. These days, girls give their numbers as easily as they give out change to a bum. It's simply no big deal, they give it out but most likely, they won't pick up or return the call. I'm serious, it didn't use to be this bad. I'm talking to guys out in the field and they are talking about the same shit. There has been quite a bit of change in women. Sure you might've gotten something like this if a girl didn't like you, or you were being really forceful and it's obvious she wasn't into it, maybe she'd give you the number just to get rid of you. But now, shit...you can vibe with a girl for a good hour, get the number and there may be a 50/50 chance she'll return your call. I understand what Roosh is saying about accepting the fact that women are flakes and fickle-minded, but I can only accept it up until a point before I start getting pissed off.

i'm starting to think, and i believe roosh has written about this that facebook is playing some role in this. that is, girls (esp. hot ones) are getting attention from lots of guys on a daily basis on FB, so getting a call is nothing new, and easy to ignore.

[speakeasy]

(10-05-2010 09:41 PM)toddh Wrote:  

i'm starting to think, and i believe roosh has written about this that facebook is playing some role in this. that is, girls (esp. hot ones) are getting attention from lots of guys on a daily basis on FB, so getting a call is nothing new, and easy to ignore.

That as well as everything shifting from phone calls to texting. I remember calling up my cell provider over some billing issue and got in a bit of a conversation with the service rep. She was talking about how she sends literally hundreds of text messages a day and how she had to upgrade her own plan. I think lots of girls sit around sending and receiving oodles of text messages a day. If yours goes through, it's easy to forget amongst whatever gossip her and her friends are passing back and forth. Everywhere you look, people are texting, twittering or facebooking. It all goes hand in hand and it's shortening attention spans. We're getting used to receiving nothing but short spurts of information. We're all becoming ever more A.D.D. I'm even feeling the effect myself. I can't read books and long news articles without my mind wandering off and wanting to check my facebook or something.

[The_CEO]

(10-05-2010 11:04 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(10-05-2010 09:41 PM)toddh Wrote:  

i'm starting to think, and i believe roosh has written about this that facebook is playing some role in this. that is, girls (esp. hot ones) are getting attention from lots of guys on a daily basis on FB, so getting a call is nothing new, and easy to ignore.

That as well as everything shifting from phone calls to texting. I remember calling up my cell provider over some billing issue and got in a bit of a conversation with the service rep. She was talking about how she sends literally hundreds of text messages a day and how she had to upgrade her own plan. I think lots of girls sit around sending and receiving oodles of text messages a day. If yours goes through, it's easy to forget amongst whatever gossip her and her friends are passing back and forth. Everywhere you look, people are texting, twittering or facebooking. It all goes hand in hand and it's shortening attention spans. We're getting used to receiving nothing but short spurts of information. We're all becoming ever more A.D.D. I'm even feeling the effect myself. I can't read books and long news articles without my mind wandering off and wanting to check my facebook or something.

yeah... sounds about right. i've been in coffee shops in LA where everyone is on their ipad/iphone/handheld...

[rumguzzler]

From my (limited) experience, in order for a girl not to flake, two things must be in place:

First and foremost,

1. She herself must be looking for a guy, or VERY open to meeting guys other than her current fuckbuddy. Girls can be single, and there are any number of reasons she is not really interested that are totally beyond your control (or, the better you are at game, the more control you have). She could recently have gotten out of relationship, just argued with her friends, flunked a college-class. Anything. You can overcome those obstacles, but only by coming across as a great catch to her, which is hard enough in the short time you have to seal the deal.

2. You must trigger a hint of gina-tingling attraction. Being mysterious helps, which is why I have had luck with less than 30 seconds of convo and still banged the girl shortly thereafter. I stole a line from David D., and it was so simple but it was great - I didn't say anything spectacular, but what I did say communicated in just a few words that I was an open, friendly, non-judgmental (CRITICAL) and very confident guy.

Other things that can damage your chances are talking too much. I've had great rapport with chicks, then I would stick around trying to capitalize on success only to lose my gains. Stupid.

In the end, it comes down to the individual interaction. The better at game, the more interactions will reveal themselves as opportunities. At my current level, one or two interactions a night with a number, and I'm happy, but I'm also recovering from serious betaization that has turned my rational-thinking brain into a pile of mush. I've gotten several numbers with high-ranking babes the past few months, and I clumsily messed each one up by asking for the number too early, waiting too long to get back to her, sending her a text the same night, getting shit-faced, etc. etc.

You can feel when it's right, the conversation is going great - THAT's when you end it, right at the peak. You say "sorry, I gotta get back to my friends". Turn to leave. Stop. Turn around, and say "hey. I enjoyed talking to you. Give me your number". I myself forgot this key advice until just now sitting and writing it out. End every interaction at its peak.

ahh, reminiscing the glory days!

[tomtud]

I think women just give you their number to get rid of you... usually if we meet women in our social circles, they won't flake as much. Nowadays, I don't even take a girls number, I leave them mine. I tell them, i'm giving you my number,, think of it as I am calling you, now its your turn to either call back or delete it... its now up to destiny!

[speakeasy]

Very good material in this thread, guys.