[thoughtgypsy]

This is something that's been a gray area to me. I never give in to clear shit tests, but there are certain requests that are borderline reasonable. I'm in a lab right now working on a project with a girl whose sitting next to her beta boyfriend. Before they left, she asked him to go and lock her computer. She was standing a little further away, if not right next to him and could have easily done it herself, though it was even easier for him to do it for her.

I'm of the mindset that if you give an inch, people will take a mile, so I almost never give in to even the smallest illogical requests. One time someone asked me to throw something out when I was walking between them and the trash can. I didn't say anything, instead putting my foot on the trash pedal so they could toss it in. Another time, I was standing between a girl and her boots at a party when she asked me to pick them up for her. I stepped out of the way, motioning for her that the path was clear for her to get them, but she still got pissed.

I normally react to micro requests by asking the other person why, or pretending to not hear them, or teasing them about not acting grown up. I'm not sure if its because of social conditioning, but some of the times I feel ridiculous doing it. Of the times when I'm not sure if I'm overreacting or not, they're always at moments when I'm in closer proximity to their object of interest, or in a way to better accomplish a task than them. I'm starting to wonder if I'm taking these situations way too seriously, and if it actually puts the brakes on the interaction. It's been some time since I've been flexible on these kind of things, so I was wondering if there's anyone out there with experience experimenting with their level of cooperation. I would really appreciate any insights.

[hydrogonian]

Yeah, I know exactly where your coming from. When around certain women, no matter how many times you 'pass' shit tests / compliance tests, they seem to keep trying to chip away at you like waves eroding a rock. Its definitely due to years of conditioned behavior and being spoiled by every other man in their life. It takes a while to break them of the habit, and some women may ever be able to be completely rehabilitated by even the most alpha of men.

Compliance becomes so expected, that when a woman first experiences non-compliance, they take a legitimate emotional / ego hit. This often results in a negative reaction / emotion being redirected toward you. Some guys will fold at this point and comply, as this is the goal of the guilt trip she then lays on you.

A quote from my current girlfreind:
"I've never heard 'no' so much in my life (referring to me). I think your the first guy whos ever told me 'no'."

Its also tough because there is a grey line, in both societies and a womans mind, between what comprises beta / unnecessary compliance and what constitutes "chivalry" or respect from a man. Many modern women will delude themselves into thinking they are entitled to having every whim indulged, and that non-compliance is an insult to their status as a woman. These women take non-compliance personally. I enjoy telling these women 'no' the most.

The first solution is to avoid the spoiled bitches who exhibit such behavior. Its not every woman who behaves like this; but, unfortunately, a disproportionate amount of hot ones will. If you want to consistently socialize with hot women, you should become resolved to not running away from, but instead dealing with this behavior.

If you want to get into a relationship with a woman like this, in my experience, it generally takes a while for them to stop testing you, even if your rarely / never comply with unreasonable requests. This sucks, but it is a price that needs to be paid.

It becomes an exercise in compromise, where you train her to only make reasonable and respectful requests, that you can comply with and she can feel respected, while you turn down the overwhelming amount of impulsive / unreasonable requests. After a while, she will be reconditioned and used to hearing 'no'. But still be prepared for a lot of requests, as she is used to making them.

Its probably unrealistic that you will ever reach a place where a woman like this makes 'zero' requests. So, you have to strike a balance. Comply with the small reasonable stuff, and don't comply with the large / unreasonable stuff. With a strong willed hot woman, good luck reaching a state of zero compliance with every request. It just becomes too tiresome to fight her all the time. While the 'player' doctrine says differently, I think that this is the reality in any relationship that would span beyond three months.

[Willy Wonka]

If it's actually a reasonable request, it's not necessarily a bad thing to comply. I noticed while reading this, that I actually do these things with chicks way more than they do them to me. I've always giving girls I'm dating these little micro shit tests to see if they comply.

[AlphaQup2nite]

in a LTR, i just counter it by doing the same things. Eventually it either stops, or gets down to a manageable level

[UgSlayer]

(04-18-2010 04:36 PM)Willy Wonka Wrote:  

If it's actually a reasonable request, it's not necessarily a bad thing to comply.

agreed. I think some guys take the idea of shit-tests way too far. I mean, if you're on the way to the fridge to get a beer and your buddy asks you if you could grab him a beer also, would you say no? If course, if someone says "hey get me a beer, bitch" I'd maybe ignore him but probably get one for him after i shook it for about 30 seconds and laugh. It all depends on your personal boundaries. Don't let anybody cross your boundaries or disrespect you and passing shit-tests becomes automatic ie easier.

Theres a middle ground between being the beta nice guy who does shit for everybody and the social robot weirdo who sees everything as a shit-test and makes people do animal noises before servicing any request.

[Rocky]

(04-18-2010 11:39 PM)UgSlayer Wrote:  

(04-18-2010 04:36 PM)Willy Wonka Wrote:  

If it's actually a reasonable request, it's not necessarily a bad thing to comply.

Theres a middle ground between being the beta nice guy who does shit for everybody and the social robot weirdo who sees everything as a shit-test and makes people do animal noises before servicing any request.

Yeah but the later guy gets more bang!!! Beta assholes are snoterags for bitches ta wipe ta floor with :0

[Roosh]

I think fixation on shit tests in unhealthy. Just be the man, have tight game, and you'll pass them all automatically.

[hydrogonian]

(04-20-2010 04:28 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

I think fixation on shit tests in unhealthy. Just be the man, have tight game, and you'll pass them all automatically.

Yeah, I know what you mean, and your right as far a strict 'shit tests' go with random girls. A guy with tight game will pass them. I actually relish them, as passing them goes a long way to getting me into her pants faster. You can almost see the moment of change on a girls face when you pass a good one, in terms of her increased attractiveness toward you, as many girls will assume guys to be AFCs until they do.

But its my experience that 'service requests', such as the OP asked about, can go deeper than a shit test, to where a woman is simply trying to dominate / control a relationship through continuous requests. Meaning she's not testing you, per se, but simply trying to push your compliance to her requests to the limit that she's used to with other guys. She's used to being served, even by a boyfriend who she isn't necessarily testing. I'm talking about girls who are used to guys being their service bitches, and who don't often hear no.

And I'm not talking about getting beers from the fridge. I'm talking about the outrageous stuff, as well as the little out of the way shit that is bad simply because of its incessant volume. Thats the type of stuff that you will never completely 'pass' because it will just keep coming until you retrain her to your personality, even if you have tight game. They are so used to it, that just passing the 'test' once or twice won't cut it. Its legitimately a retraining process. I guess I'm talking about 'relationship game' rather than passing shit tests with random girls. However, there is obvious crossover.

[thegmanifesto]

I don't even like the term "shit tests".

Some of this pick up artist lingo need to be tossed in the trash.

[sramosobriant]

(04-18-2010 02:08 PM)thoughtgypsy Wrote:  

This is something that's been a gray area to me. I never give in to clear shit tests, but there are certain requests that are borderline reasonable. I'm in a lab right now working on a project with a girl whose sitting next to her beta boyfriend. Before they left, she asked him to go and lock her computer. She was standing a little further away, if not right next to him and could have easily done it herself, though it was even easier for him to do it for her.

I'm of the mindset that if you give an inch, people will take a mile, so I almost never give in to even the smallest illogical requests. One time someone asked me to throw something out when I was walking between them and the trash can. I didn't say anything, instead putting my foot on the trash pedal so they could toss it in. Another time, I was standing between a girl and her boots at a party when she asked me to pick them up for her. I stepped out of the way, motioning for her that the path was clear for her to get them, but she still got pissed.

I normally react to micro requests by asking the other person why, or pretending to not hear them, or teasing them about not acting grown up. I'm not sure if its because of social conditioning, but some of the times I feel ridiculous doing it. Of the times when I'm not sure if I'm overreacting or not, they're always at moments when I'm in closer proximity to their object of interest, or in a way to better accomplish a task than them. I'm starting to wonder if I'm taking these situations way too seriously, and if it actually puts the brakes on the interaction. It's been some time since I've been flexible on these kind of things, so I was wondering if there's anyone out there with experience experimenting with their level of cooperation. I would really appreciate any insights.

There is nothing in any of these descriptions to indicate that any of these women had an interest in you or that you had a chance with them so I fail to see the problem.

If there was an opportunity for something to develop, why close the door right off the bat over something so minor? Is it that you're afraid that over time if a relationship should develop that you'd go from merely getting lucky to being pussy whipped? Perhaps a thread should be devoted to discussing the downside/upside of that.

[UgSlayer]

(04-21-2010 08:42 PM)sramosobriant Wrote:  

There is nothing in any of these descriptions to indicate that any of these women had an interest in you or that you had a chance with them so I fail to see the problem.

If there was an opportunity for something to develop, why close the door right off the bat over something so minor? Is it that you're afraid that over time if a relationship should develop that you'd go from merely getting lucky to being pussy whipped? Perhaps a thread should be devoted to discussing the downside/upside of that.

Are you a chick or a feminist?

[Willy Wonka]

(04-20-2010 06:49 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

Some of this pick up artist lingo need to be tossed in the trash.

I agree on the lingo shit.

[HD668B]

(04-20-2010 06:49 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

I don't even like the term "shit tests".

Some of this pick up artist lingo need to be tossed in the trash.

Obviously when you are full suited down with a goose in one hand and a cigar in the other you won't experience much shit tests.
But for a college guy hitting on the party's hottie, its good to know how to deal with them.
http://roissy.wordpress.com/2010/04/27/t...shit-test/

[doriangray]

(05-06-2010 05:19 PM)LÉtranger Wrote:  

(04-20-2010 06:49 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

I don't even like the term "shit tests".

Some of this pick up artist lingo need to be tossed in the trash.

Obviously when you are full suited down with a goose in one hand and a cigar in the other you won't experience much shit tests.
But for a college guy hitting on the party's hottie, its good to know how to deal with them.
http://roissy.wordpress.com/2010/04/27/t...shit-test/

The TED talk link on Roissy's page is hilarious. "Bullets are actually hardened tears.." TED has usually quality stuff but that woman is just plain crazy.