[Apollo2]

I'm on a vicious cold streak. In 2012, I've gone 1/15 on POF first dates. Only 1 bang and no second dates (I don't bother asking them out on second dates, and they never initiate contact with me afterwards).

I always ask girls to meet me at a pub that's a 2 minute walk from my place.

Of the 15 first dates, I only managed to bring 4 girls back to my pad. 1 girl I banged, 1 girl I managed to get into bed though no clothes came off, 1 refused to go any further than a kiss, and 1 refused any physical escalation.

Of all my online first date bangs in past years, the one commonality I've noticed is none of the girls drove to the pub (including the one I banged this year). But girls who are driving will refuse to have more than one drink, and instead of coming back to my place most will simply just walk back to their car.

I feel like girls driving is a logistical hurdle I can't overcome. Are there players who've had success with banging girls who drive on the first date from online? How do I get over this?

[kenny_powers]

(12-28-2012 10:57 AM)Apollo2 Wrote:  

I'm on a vicious cold streak. In 2012, I've gone 1/15 on POF first dates. Only 1 bang and no second dates (I don't bother asking them out on second dates, and they never initiate contact with me afterwards).

I always ask girls to meet me at a pub that's a 2 minute walk from my place.

Of the 15 first dates, I only managed to bring 4 girls back to my pad. 1 girl I banged, 1 girl I managed to get into bed though no clothes came off, 1 refused to go any further than a kiss, and 1 refused any physical escalation.

Of all my online first date bangs in past years, the one commonality I've noticed is none of the girls drove to the pub (including the one I banged this year). But girls who are driving will refuse to have more than one drink, and instead of coming back to my place most will simply just walk back to their car.

I feel like girls driving is a logistical hurdle I can't overcome. Are there players who've had success with banging girls who drive on the first date from online? How do I get over this?

http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-8681.h...ght=recipe

[Parlay44]

How old are you? How old are they?

[Basil Ransom]

Rookie mistake man... Have the girl PARK AT YOUR HOUSE, and then you walk together. Have sone gimmick for getting her into your house, and mention it while at the bar. It could be as simple as 'I just got some amazing peaches, you should try one." If she's down, it won't take much. And read the date thread linked above.

[savvylurker]

Why do you always have to go for the SNL? Some of these girls may have banged on date 2 or 3. Also, I think you need to go back to fundamentals. You should do a venue change first before pulling them back to your place. And why not meet near their place and pull the bathroom weasel move.

[bodmon]

i think that you should tweak your date routine by adding more logistical movement (and thereby psychological momentum) and see how that goes.

- first, have her park near or at your place. then, instead of going straight to the bar, find some excuse to have her pop into your place for a bit: "oh shit... i forgot my wallet/ID/article of clothing/whatever... let's swing by my place for a second and get it". this will familiarize her with it. when you execute your pull move later it won't be as difficult for you and nerve-wracking for her because she's been to your place already and knows what it's like - it's not a big scary abyss of implied sex! you also get the chance to put some conversation in and show her around. be aware though that most girls will be uneasy/nervous about this pre-invite - it's your job to push through that and be normal. after all, you genuinely forgot your wallet/ID/article of clothing/whatever, right? also be aware that a small percentage of girls will say that they will just wait in the lobby. there's nothing you can do about that. finally, the guru who i learned this trick from said that if the girl gets immediately comfortable, i.e. takes off her shoes/jacket, sits on your bed, etc. then take that as strong DTFness and suggest that you instead make it an at-home movie date and go from there. this i have not yet had happen to me.

- turn your bar-date into a barhop-date. move around to 2-4 bars instead of staying at just one. this uses the basic pua concept of 'time distortion'. it also makes her more likely to drink and casts the date as some kind of interesting adventure even though in reality it is still two people talking to each other at a bar.

- in addition to the barhopping, throw in even more movement, like going to the nearby 24 hr convenience/grocery store to get something you need, like limes/mixer, or walking through a park, prior to going back to your place.

- during your walks together between bars you can throw in some kino like walking arm-in-arm or even piggybacks if you're a boss like that. you also have the area you're walking through as conversational fodder.

- in addition to being interesting, dial up the humour and fun aspect in your conversation with the girl. throw in some sexual humour. hit her with verbal escalation/statements of intent, done the right way (meaning, coupled with humour, and a release, if necessary).


the above will not guarantee a full-on first date bang, but it will guarantee openness to escalation leading to makeouts/groping. if you don't get the bang from there then at least you've got a more willing second date.

the underlying factor in all of this is emotional momentum. you must get that train going and bring it on home.

[TheBulldozer]

If you are in Canada, a first world western culture and you are going 1/15 then I think it's time to analyze every aspect of your date game. Read tuth's first date thread; that is still one of the strongest posts on this entire forum.

How's your style? Does the girl want to be seen in public with the clothes your wearing?

How would you describe the pub? Is this a place that is seen as hip, or are we talking a place where a bunch of blue collars will come to throw back a few LaBatt's?

Are you putting interesting pieces of bait that will entice a girl to come see something back in your place?

IMO dating game in the West is SNL game. In 2012 in NYC 11 out of my 17 "dates" ended in a bang. I wouldn't have believed myself if I said that a few years ago, but I reevaluated everything, stepped up the quality of my clothes, my pad, and my storytelling.

It seems that getting dates is not your problem, it's more of finding a pattern that works for you.

Try a new style, try a new bar, try having her not drive or at the very least have her park by you. Try going to her place. I created a thread about getting a bang when you're by her place.

[Drazen]

usually what I do is meet a girl at a bar but I take a cab and try to have her drive me back to my place (never been turned down for that), but the trick is having her park back at my place to come up (apartment so its parallel street parking instead of a driveway..if it were a driveway in a house it'd be MUCH easier to get girls to come in). trying to get that little detail sorted out, its worked on occasion but even if I plant seeds earlier in the night (this movie, this painting, this bottle of wine, etc) or whatever, when a girl is dropping you off, she is in control as the car is running, its late. any suggestions welcomed, I guess I can say something like "aren't you going to walk me to my door?" or something like that.

[theIVth]

I'm wondering about the pressing for the first date smash too. Why is it so crucial? Contrary to popular belief on here, a lot of girls are just not going to fuck you on the first night. I'm willing to bet that your obsessed desire to fuck on the first night is what's scarying them off. Just ease up and feel out the situation better. If she seems reasonably willing to smash on the same night then go for it. But if not then don't press it. Pressing makes you come off as creepy. A lot of girls have to be worked over time bro.

Only 1 out of 15 should tell you something.

(12-28-2012 11:47 AM)savvylurker Wrote:  

Why do you always have to go for the SNL? Some of these girls may have banged on date 2 or 3. Also, I think you need to go back to fundamentals. You should do a venue change first before pulling them back to your place. And why not meet near their place and pull the bathroom weasel move.

[kenny_powers]

(12-28-2012 10:57 AM)Apollo2 Wrote:  

I'm on a vicious cold streak. In 2012, I've gone 1/15 on POF first dates. Only 1 bang and no second dates (I don't bother asking them out on second dates, and they never initiate contact with me afterwards).

I always ask girls to meet me at a pub that's a 2 minute walk from my place.




I feel like girls driving is a logistical hurdle I can't overcome. Are there players who've had success with banging girls who drive on the first date from online? How do I get over this?

There is some good advice posted to your response. First of all read the Date Recipe link I provided. Are you doing what Tuth said?

Another poster asked about your style, your stories stories, the venue etc...Are you escalating kino?

Why don't you invite them to a spot ten minutes from your place. After a drink and you create interest, venue change to the place that's a 2 minute walk from your place. Don't tell them you live nearby. Pay the tab, "let's go, I know an awesome spot". After some time at bar #2 create an opportunity to go to your apartment.

If you are not getting poosy on the first date, why are you not calling / texting for a second date? Don't expect them to contact you - that's harsh reality. Maybe you need to try a 3 date plan and work your way up to the SNL.

[kenny_powers]

(12-28-2012 12:45 PM)MaleDefined Wrote:  

If you are in Canada, a first world western culture and you are going 1/15 then I think it's time to analyze every aspect of your date game. Read tuth's first date thread; that is still one of the strongest posts on this entire forum.

How's your style? Does the girl want to be seen in public with the clothes your wearing?

How would you describe the pub? Is this a place that is seen as hip, or are we talking a place where a bunch of blue collars will come to throw back a few LaBatt's?

Are you putting interesting pieces of bait that will entice a girl to come see something back in your place?



Try a new style, try a new bar, try having her not drive or at the very least have her park by you. Try going to her place. I created a thread about getting a bang when you're by her place.

Great advice Defined. Could you please paste a link to your thread, I want to read that.

[Basil Ransom]

(12-28-2012 05:30 PM)theIVth Wrote:  

I'm wondering about the pressing for the first date smash too. Why is it so crucial? Contrary to popular belief on here, a lot of girls are just not going to fuck you on the first night. I'm willing to bet that your obsessed desire to fuck on the first night is what's scarying them off. Just ease up and feel out the situation better. If she seems reasonably willing to smash on the same night then go for it. But if not then don't press it. Pressing makes you come off as creepy. A lot of girls have to be worked over time bro.

Only 1 out of 15 should tell you something.

(12-28-2012 11:47 AM)savvylurker Wrote:  

Why do you always have to go for the SNL? Some of these girls may have banged on date 2 or 3. Also, I think you need to go back to fundamentals. You should do a venue change first before pulling them back to your place. And why not meet near their place and pull the bathroom weasel move.

I believe the opposite. Girls I meet are so flaky, with so many options, that if you don't bang them on the first date, there's a good chance you'll never see them again. They have so many competing obligations, priorities and activities that scheduling another meet within a week is not possible. And after a week, all momentum is lost. Imagine you're in a line of men, waiting to fuck this girl. When you're on a date with the girl, you're at the front of the line. Once you fuck her, the line practically doesn't exist. But with every passing day, you're further and further from the front of the line, and other guys have leaped ahead of you.

Girls would see me as a player, by virtue of my forwardness. This would get me into a rut, when I didn't bang the girl on the first date. They would not consciously go on another date with a guy they thought only wanted them for sex, UNLESS you've already fucked them, at which point they're resigned to it ("well, we've already had sex...). So if I didn't bang them but got their pussy wet, it would sometimes work against me. Sure, I didn't really 'build a connection' with these girls, I just went with the flow by flirting and escalating.

It's also very possible that for most girls, the chemistry is weak, and once you get past the initial rush from meeting a stranger, there's little attraction. But if you can bang her during that initial rush, you can keep at it for months even, whereas you wouldn't have lasted three weeks if she had a 3 date rule.

As Kenny Powers says below, and I meant to add, girls rarely punish you for being aggressive. But, if you're aggressive and there's no real chemistry, AND you don't bang on the first date, the chance of flaking is high. Either way, if there's no real chemistry and you haven't banged, odds of seeing her again are low. I talk about chemistry as if some girls are matches for you and some aren't, but it's more like some girls are just unable to form a connection with a strange man very easily.

Good advice from bodmon.

[kenny_powers]

Basil - truth! I've closed on the 3rd 4th date in the last few months but you are 100% right. I tried everything in my power to SNL / ONS every single date - my percentages are pretty decent. I think Roosh says that a girl will forgive you if you try too hard to fuck her, but she won;t forget / forgive if you were to Beta to at least go for the SNL. I don;t think the OP has the level of game yet to function at that level.

[theIVth]

I definitely agree that you should always have your eye out for an opening to try to smash starting on the very first date if possible. I'm just saying that in reality a lot of girls are just not going to fuck on the first date just off general principle if nothing else. They have their minds made up that its just not going down and that's that. If you keep pressing passed that moment where their really like "stop" or you just force the situation when all the signs that night have said she's not going to be down, then you just shot yourself in the foot. I've had more fuck buddies come from 2nd and 3rd date fucks then same night lays.

Plus, these are girls that I'm assuming he's met and then arranged dates with as opposed to just meeting them at a club and then taking them home after drinks and all that. That plays a factor in the probability of smashing on the first night as well.

The OP doesn't seem to have an issue with attracting females, he just has a slight issue with keeping them after trying to smash on the first night. Out of 15 chicks only 1 was down to smash on the first night, but all 15 were attracted to him enough to go on a date. Im willing to bet that at least 3 or 4 more out of those 15 would have went on at least a second had he been a little less pressed than I'm assuming he is to fuck on the first date.

(12-28-2012 06:44 PM)basilransom Wrote:  

(12-28-2012 05:30 PM)theIVth Wrote:  

I'm wondering about the pressing for the first date smash too. Why is it so crucial? Contrary to popular belief on here, a lot of girls are just not going to fuck you on the first night. I'm willing to bet that your obsessed desire to fuck on the first night is what's scarying them off. Just ease up and feel out the situation better. If she seems reasonably willing to smash on the same night then go for it. But if not then don't press it. Pressing makes you come off as creepy. A lot of girls have to be worked over time bro.

Only 1 out of 15 should tell you something.

(12-28-2012 11:47 AM)savvylurker Wrote:  

Why do you always have to go for the SNL? Some of these girls may have banged on date 2 or 3. Also, I think you need to go back to fundamentals. You should do a venue change first before pulling them back to your place. And why not meet near their place and pull the bathroom weasel move.

I believe the opposite. Girls I meet are so flaky, with so many options, that if you don't bang them on the first date, there's a good chance you'll never see them again. They have so many competing obligations, priorities and activities that scheduling another meet within a week is not possible. And after a week, all momentum is lost. Imagine you're in a line of men, waiting to fuck this girl. When you're on a date with the girl, you're at the front of the line. Once you fuck her, the line practically doesn't exist. But with every passing day, you're further and further from the front of the line, and other guys have leaped ahead of you.

Girls would see me as a player, by virtue of my forwardness. This would get me into a rut, when I didn't bang the girl on the first date. They would not consciously go on another date with a guy they thought only wanted them for sex, UNLESS you've already fucked them, at which point they're resigned to it ("well, we've already had sex...). So if I didn't bang them but got their pussy wet, it would sometimes work against me. Sure, I didn't really 'build a connection' with these girls, I just went with the flow by flirting and escalating.

It's also very possible that for most girls, the chemistry is weak, and once you get past the initial rush from meeting a stranger, there's little attraction. But if you can bang her during that initial rush, you can keep at it for months even, whereas you wouldn't have lasted three weeks if she had a 3 date rule.

As Kenny Powers says below, and I meant to add, girls rarely punish you for being aggressive. But, if you're aggressive and there's no real chemistry, AND you don't bang on the first date, the chance of flaking is high. Either way, if there's no real chemistry and you haven't banged, odds of seeing her again are low. I talk about chemistry as if some girls are matches for you and some aren't, but it's more like some girls are just unable to form a connection with a strange man very easily.

Good advice from bodmon.

[Apollo2]

(12-28-2012 06:44 PM)basilransom Wrote:  

(12-28-2012 05:30 PM)theIVth Wrote:  

I'm wondering about the pressing for the first date smash too. Why is it so crucial? Contrary to popular belief on here, a lot of girls are just not going to fuck you on the first night. I'm willing to bet that your obsessed desire to fuck on the first night is what's scarying them off. Just ease up and feel out the situation better. If she seems reasonably willing to smash on the same night then go for it. But if not then don't press it. Pressing makes you come off as creepy. A lot of girls have to be worked over time bro.

Only 1 out of 15 should tell you something.

(12-28-2012 11:47 AM)savvylurker Wrote:  

Why do you always have to go for the SNL? Some of these girls may have banged on date 2 or 3. Also, I think you need to go back to fundamentals. You should do a venue change first before pulling them back to your place. And why not meet near their place and pull the bathroom weasel move.

I believe the opposite. Girls I meet are so flaky, with so many options, that if you don't bang them on the first date, there's a good chance you'll never see them again. They have so many competing obligations, priorities and activities that scheduling another meet within a week is not possible. And after a week, all momentum is lost. Imagine you're in a line of men, waiting to fuck this girl. When you're on a date with the girl, you're at the front of the line. Once you fuck her, the line practically doesn't exist. But with every passing day, you're further and further from the front of the line, and other guys have leaped ahead of you.

Girls would see me as a player, by virtue of my forwardness. This would get me into a rut, when I didn't bang the girl on the first date. They would not consciously go on another date with a guy they thought only wanted them for sex, UNLESS you've already fucked them, at which point they're resigned to it ("well, we've already had sex...). So if I didn't bang them but got their pussy wet, it would sometimes work against me. Sure, I didn't really 'build a connection' with these girls, I just went with the flow by flirting and escalating.

It's also very possible that for most girls, the chemistry is weak, and once you get past the initial rush from meeting a stranger, there's little attraction. But if you can bang her during that initial rush, you can keep at it for months even, whereas you wouldn't have lasted three weeks if she had a 3 date rule.

As Kenny Powers says below, and I meant to add, girls rarely punish you for being aggressive. But, if you're aggressive and there's no real chemistry, AND you don't bang on the first date, the chance of flaking is high. Either way, if there's no real chemistry and you haven't banged, odds of seeing her again are low. I talk about chemistry as if some girls are matches for you and some aren't, but it's more like some girls are just unable to form a connection with a strange man very easily.

Good advice from bodmon.

This. The second date is dead.

There's a consensus on this forum that you should always be pushing for the bang, because, if you don't get it or get real close to it, there's a good chance that you'll never see the girl again. I agree with this wholeheartedly, but it was not always this way.

For a good bit of time I had a solid two-date routine that worked very well for me. I would spend the first date (and I mean drinks, not a dinner date) being flirty and forward enough to build attraction, but with enough restraint to create the illusion that the attraction was "just happening." I got very good at alternating between escalating heavily and then pulling back and qualifying her. Those first dates would end anywhere from a hug goodbye to third base (a few ended with me getting the bang on the first night), but I never pushed things too hard.

I did this for a couple of reasons. One reason was that pushing hard on the first date is often a war of attrition, where you have to fight hard over every inch of ground and that just takes too much damn time. The other reason was that I wanted to end things on a bit of tension and not rejection. I wanted her to think of the night as ending on mutual attraction that were weren't ready to go through with yet and not her stopping me in my tracks. To hear myself write that now, it sounds like some bitch talk, but for a long time it worked. We would both show up for the second knowing what was going to happen. All I would have to do was not fuck it up. I remember one girl who I hung out with on Thursday, the night ended with a make out. I invited her to come "hang out" that Sunday and she showed up with a change of clothes for work on Monday morning.

Getting a make out at the end of the night was almost always a sure sign that you'd get a second date, but it seems like those days are over. My question is this: when did it change? When did women stop giving men a second chance? This feels very new, as in the last two or three years.

What's been you guys' experience with getting to the second date without getting the bang?

***

This is definitely a very recent development. I remember parking my game for a little while for an LTR, and coming out to a different world. Before that, I agree that if things ended in a make-out, you didn't even need to push for the bang. There was no reason to push for the bang, unless you were mad horny. There was an ease to the whole thing once you had a verified connection (a kiss, for instance). It was unheard-of to not get a second date if the first one went well. In fact, as long as you kept pushing the ball upfield, you knew you'd get another "first down." The three-date rule prevailed, and you were satisfied with a second- or third-date bang.

Nowadays, I go for the first-date bang even when I'm not that horny, with full knowledge that if I don't, I'm going to get flaked on. Even when I do score a first-date bang--and put it down like champ--I might still get flaked on.

Chicks have become dudes.

http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-15569.html

[speakeasy]

(12-29-2012 12:59 AM)Apollo2 Wrote:  

Nowadays, I go for the first-date bang even when I'm not that horny, with full knowledge that if I don't, I'm going to get flaked on. Even when I do score a first-date bang--and put it down like champ--I might still get flaked on.

Chicks have become dudes.

Exactly. It's getting to the point were even if you do bang a girl on the first date, it's a coin toss whether you'll ever hear from her again. It used to be that once you banged, the girl would start calling and texting you hoping that you didn't hump and dump her. Now women couldn't care less about fucking and chucking a guy.

[thegmanifesto]

(12-28-2012 10:57 AM)Apollo2 Wrote:  

I'm on a vicious cold streak. In 2012, I've gone 1/15 on Plenty of Shrimp first dates.

If people would stop posting threads complaining about online dating, texting and getting flaked on, I think the Game subforum might die.

[poutsara]

(12-29-2012 01:36 AM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(12-29-2012 12:59 AM)Apollo2 Wrote:  

Nowadays, I go for the first-date bang even when I'm not that horny, with full knowledge that if I don't, I'm going to get flaked on. Even when I do score a first-date bang--and put it down like champ--I might still get flaked on.

Chicks have become dudes.

Exactly. It's getting to the point were even if you do bang a girl on the first date, it's a coin toss whether you'll ever hear from her again. It used to be that once you banged, the girl would start calling and texting you hoping that you didn't hump and dump her. Now women couldn't care less about fucking and chucking a guy.

Everyone says this on here. But it has not been my experience. I agree everyone should push as hard as they can to swoop on date #1. But if it doesn't happen, just push for it on #2. If a girl is going to flake on me, she will do it on the first date - second and third date flakes are rare. And when the girl does get swooped, she wants to keep on getting handled. That's been my experience. I'm in LA so I don't think this is an issue of geography. My approach game isn't anything special. My online game is non-existent now after trying it for few months some years ago and being disappointed with the quality. Maybe the girls I go after are different. Maybe I'm more lenient with what constitutes a "flake".

[savvylurker]

I agree with just about everything written above. I have benefited from having solid text game and persistence with the girls to keep things moving along.
Mystery used to have the 7 hour rule, where it took 7 hours of one on one with a girl typically to get the bang. Surely that window is less now in NYC. And I totally feel like girls pump and dump now- has happened to me twice in the last 6 months. This is a sure sign civilization is crumbling.

[Armenian]

I have the same problem. I cannot remember the last time I got a second date with a Canadian girl. I have had second or more dates with a Russian, Turkish, Mexican, Bulgarian born and an a couple of conservative American girls from Seattle (Polish born) and Montana. I have to remind myself to go for SNL.

Had a date last night and had it all planned out. I expected her to walk to the bar because she was just down the street but because it has been snowing so much up here lately she got lazy and took her car.

[RCron]

Here in OC CA the one date/one chance rule is in full effect. Prior to this year I was married and in a LTR and when I emerged back into the game this year I experienced a rude awakening. I was of the the mindset already mentioned here that as long as you were moving the ball down the field you were guaranteed a first down and another shot at the end zone. Much to my dismay I left many potential notches on the table by not being aggressive enough, playing it safe and thinking I would get the bang on date two or three which never happened.

I've noticed that there is "slightly" more flexibility in this rule with over 40 women since they're old school also but it's far from a sure thing. If they've been in the game for any length of time they're even more ruthless than the younger lizards. They think their snatches don't stink, require exceptional game AND are quick to deny a second date or disappear altogether. All the while their physical stock is declining by the day...

[Gemini]

(12-28-2012 12:17 PM)bodmon Wrote:  

find some excuse to have her pop into your place for a bit: "oh shit... i forgot my wallet/ID/article of clothing/whatever... let's swing by my place for a second and get it". this will familiarize her with it. when you execute your pull move later it won't be as difficult for you and nerve-wracking for her because she's been to your place already and knows what it's like - it's not a big scary abyss of implied sex! you also get the chance to put some conversation in and show her around. be aware though that most girls will be uneasy/nervous about this pre-invite - it's your job to push through that and be normal. after all, you genuinely forgot your wallet/ID/article of clothing/whatever, right?

That's my methodology as well. I live near the bars and street parking is expensive here so I suggest for the date to park in my building underground.
I've also pulled the "Oops I forgot my wallet, let's go upstairs for a sec" move with great success. Meaning she was comfortable enough for us to later come back to my place to hang out more after hitting up two different venues nearby. Didn't lead to a bang necessarily, but definitely a hot make out session on a first date

[DVY]

This is what I did when I lived in SF.

Tell the girl to park in front of my place. Met her downstairs in flip flops. (no choice but for her to come up.)

Grab her to come up. Make her a drink and put some light music on. Chat a little and drink.

My go to drink is 3 shots of cpt morgan, ice, diet 7-up, and a bit of guava. Its tastes amazing.

With a light buzz, the girl will begin to settle a little bit.

Go to the bar, light grub, whatever.

Come back to your place. On the way back, grab her hand and hold hands w/her. Usually girls, get a bit suprised then smile and settle. Most times I will just walk them up to my place with light banter on the way back.

If she seems hesitant, I usually offered a "glass of wonderful filtered tap water" before you go ...

Swoop.

[Gemini]

oh man this thread is a bit of a awakening for me... I didn't realize things got so bad out there

From my experience, the SNL on a first date is still the exception, not the rule. Maybe it's the girls I've been dating over the past few months (in Vancouver, BC), but a big majority of them seem to have the 2-3 dates before sex rule fully ingrained in their heads.

Trust me, I've pushed hard and fast. Never leave first date without kissing her, usually escalate quite fast if I can get them back to my place. If I have to, I will literary stop when walking with her down the street, turn towards her and try to kiss her. (Did exactly this on a first date two days ago. She was asking me a lot of questions, I stopped, faced her, and kissed her over her resistance. Then I told her that was my way of shutting her up hehe, she just smiled and agreed that is was.)

I've had a Canadian girl (born in a small town in BC) come over to my place on two separate occasions. Tossing her around on my bed, making out, play-fighting and teasing her but she still wouldn't wanna fuck, nevermind take her top off. A little prudish maybe? Small town maybe? Who knows... but I will keep on pushing. Date three coming up soon. If I can't close the deal then or at least get a BJ I might call it quits on her. There are limits. You can't let a lizard blue ball you forever. That's why you shouldn't invest too much time/money into them. And have a rotation going on. I am still building up my stable of horses from my slump from couple months ago.

[LowerCaseG]

Offer to pick her up. That way she doesn't have to worry about drinking too much. Also some pre-isloation in the car.