[DirectDanger]

For most of the last 5+ years I have lived and traveled all over S.E. Asia but have decided it is time for me to check out new parts of the world. This forum has convinced me that Eastern Europe is the place I need to go this coming spring.

I know lots of you guys have been to both parts of the world and I would like to get your input on some things that aren't normally talked about here. Having read most of the threads I have a good idea about the girls and of course this is the major factor in my decision to check it out. So in this thread I am more interested in knowing about life outside of that.

One of the things I loved about living in both Bangkok and Manila is the ability to make a ton of friends and have a great social circle. I want to know how you guys have found making guy friends in E.E countries when you stay for 3 to 6+ months. I know each country is unique in this so I would like to hear your thoughts.

For me in Bangkok I had a great circle of guy friends, mostly internet entrepreneurs or online poker players from the US, Canada, and Europe. The few Thai guy friends I had lived and studied in the US for high school and University and where very much in the upper class. I never could connect with and want to hang out with Thai guys who did not study outside of thailand. Even though my thai was not great some of my friends who spoke great thai still did not find making friends with thai guys to be that easy or connect with them in anyway. So in Bangkok our circle of friends was western guys, a few rich foreign educated thai guys and thai girls.

In Manila their is also an internet entrepreneur group of foreigners living their but the big difference is I made lots of Filipino guy friends. They spoke great english and I was able to connect with them. We could talk about game, and I enjoyed having them as friends. So my social circle was about even between foreigners and filipino guys.

In both countries I was also able to kind of climb the social ladder fairly easily. Getting to know club owners, promoters, wealthy people (mostly foreigners) who would throw house parties, and even some local celebrities.

I am just curious how things work in E.E. countries. For you guys that have lived in Poland or other E.E countries for several months I would like to know…

Did you build much of a social circle?

Are you mostly hanging out with other foreigners or also local guys as well?

Are you able to get an inside track to climb up the social ladder fairly easily?

I would like to know how you enjoyed the lifestyle in the E.E outside of just banging girls.

[iknowexactly]

(12-13-2012 11:57 AM)DirectDanger Wrote:  

Did you build much of a social circle?

Are you mostly hanging out with other foreigners or also local guys as well?

Are you able to get an inside track to climb up the social ladder fairly easily?

I would like to know how you enjoyed the lifestyle in the E.E outside of just banging girls.

I was in a medium Ukrainian city. The local English-speaking expats were friendly and we hung out, but there as only a dozen to few dozen.

I hardly spoke any Ukrainian, and the locals were relatively friendly but they seemed to be kind of under pressure due to the messed up economy. The idea of social climbing is almost moot, because there doesn't seem to be much of an intersection of the moneyed class and the cultured class.

It's only been about 20 years since Communism and most of the people with money are grab-it-fast people; not the really interesting ones like musicians etc, who are quite poor. I actually made the acquaintance of a club owner, but I'm a guy with a graduate degree and interests in the arts, and we didn't really have a lot in common. I'm older and not at all a party animal, so that world may be more interesting to you.

[Branimir]

It depends alot on other factors.
You can have a good time sure, but you'll never be one of them since you're not able to speak their language, just like in SEA.
You'll have to rely on expats to hang out with, which you'll encounter alot less probably.
I have to add that life will most likely be alot less laidback, more bland , and of course more expensive than SEA unless you plan to go to some village in the middle of nowhere.
Oh, don't forget the weather.
It can get quite quite depressing in some EE places with shitty weather and those crappy buildings.


... honestly though, the only reason people from this forum would travel to EE are girls, and only girls. The rest isn't really exciting.
There's some exceptions like Croatia for the seaside or Belgrade for the party.
Again , EE is big so you may have to be more precise on what kind of country or what kind of things you want to focus.

This is just my take on this.

[Beyond Borders]

(12-13-2012 02:41 PM)Branimir Wrote:  

but you'll never be one of them since you're not able to speak their language, just like in SEA.

This comment really confuses me. It's not a question of whether you're able to are whether you're not. It's a question of whether you're willing to put the time and effort in...

You can speak the language anywhere if you make the decision to, and that will open up a lot of doors for you.

The fact that you mentioned language was the only thing holding someone back from being "one of them" yet spoke of it as if it were an unattainable feat (or perhaps not a worthwhile endeavor?) seems to me an illuminating example of how many foreigners approach their new home.

You can't refuse to put out the effort and yet resent never being wholly accepted.

I will agree, however, that in many places of the world, you'll always be an outsider even then, which is unfortunate. That said, this is also true of foreign-born citizens here in America. The majority stick to their own. Some will try to be accepted, but as long as they have their accent and their old un-American ways they will always be thought of as "that Indian guy" or "that Russian guy" by anyone who hasn't taken the time to get to know them.

In other words, they'll always seem strange to strangers.

In this same way, you're mainly an outsider to the general population and the randoms you come across when living abroad - you'll always seem strange to those strangers no matter what. It doesn't mean you can't still gain acceptance among lifelong friends and family that view you as one of their own.

But until you ever put in the effort to speak their language and learn their culture, none of this will ever ever happen, no matter how much you want it to. And it makes perfect sense really.

[Branimir]

(12-13-2012 05:36 PM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

(12-13-2012 02:41 PM)Branimir Wrote:  

but you'll never be one of them since you're not able to speak their language, just like in SEA.

This comment really confuses me. It's not a question of whether you're able to are whether you're not. It's a question of whether you're willing to put the time and effort in...

You can speak the language anywhere if you make the decision to, and that will open up a lot of doors for you.

The fact that you mentioned language was the only thing holding someone back from being "one of them" yet spoke of it as if it were an unattainable feat (or perhaps not a worthwhile endeavor?) seems to me an illuminating example of how many foreigners approach their new home.

Well, of course it's not "impossible" but you see, it's not really comparable to the USA because english the lingua franca, so most of the people coming to the USA don't have a problem language wise and are integrated pretty fast.
I just don't think he'll learn a new language beforehand fluently, or be able to since not everybody can "just" learn a new language, especially a slavic one. If it's polish , he can forget about it directly, life's too short to learn polish. It's fucked up.
I don't consider the differences of culture itself a problem, but the language is the biggest one IMHO.
Sure , nevertheless, you'll get chicks and the ocassional invitation maybe but I don't think you'd fall into a social circle and stay in it.

I agree with the rest you said.

Background: My parents are slavic and I speak 2 slavic languages fluently, but I grew up in Germany.

[Gaston]

Quick social circles are only possibly in immigrant countries and in high-tourist countries (and provided these are not based on friendships for the sake of immediate benefits for the local side).

There are some minor variables in different EE countries, but generally speaking penetrating social circles in EE is tough because the locals are wary of strangers, and expats are few and far between. Sure some of the locals will see you as novelty and will offer their friendship short-term during which time they'll try to impress you/amuse you with their culture, places and way of life, but they will tire of you quickly (especially if they can't get anything tangible out of you). So 3-6 months just won't work no matter how much language you learn (and btw, you won't learn much, and nobody will want to talk to you in local lingo because they have no patience, will condescendingly, but unwittingly dismiss your efforts, and will default back to English anyway). Most of all, they will see you as a tourist on slightly extended stay.

To gather their trust (and EE folk are generally suspicious of foreigners, especially in smaller cities) you will need to really settle down in that country, and get a job (none of that "I"m internet marketer" bullshit will work), date/marry a local woman, learn language in earnest, in other words show a long-term (life changing) commitment to that place that measures in years, not months. Only then will you have a chance to be "one of them", but even then it starts with the people who are similar to your age and professional interests. I knew people like that. And they were doing excellent. But for all practical purposes they became "local' through their long-term commitment to the place.

Like most things IRL building trust takes time.

So for those reasons I'd say that EE will not be like SEA. Having said that, more "westernized" EE countries/cities will probably be much easier than the rest (because there will be more expats at least, and the locals are, or will want to seem, international in their outlook/attitude).

[Hooligan Harry]

(12-13-2012 06:54 PM)Gaston Wrote:  

Quick social circles are only possibly in immigrant countries and in high-tourist countries (and provided these are not based on friendships for the sake of immediate benefits for the local side).

There are some minor variables in different EE countries, but generally speaking penetrating social circles in EE is tough because the locals are wary of strangers, and expats are few and far between. Sure some of the locals will see you as novelty and will offer their friendship short-term during which time they'll try to impress you/amuse you with their culture, places and way of life, but they will tire of you quickly (especially if they can't get anything tangible out of you). So 3-6 months just won't work no matter how much language you learn (and btw, you won't learn much, and nobody will want to talk to you in local lingo because they have no patience, will condescendingly, but unwittingly dismiss your efforts, and will default back to English anyway). Most of all, they will see you as a tourist on slightly extended stay.

To gather their trust (and EE folk are generally suspicious of foreigners, especially in smaller cities) you will need to really settle down in that country, and get a job (none of that "I"m internet marketer" bullshit will work), date/marry a local woman, learn language in earnest, in other words show a long-term (life changing) commitment to that place that measures in years, not months. Only then will you have a chance to be "one of them", but even then it starts with the people who are similar to your age and professional interests. I knew people like that. And they were doing excellent. But for all practical purposes they became "local' through their long-term commitment to the place.

Like most things IRL building trust takes time.

So for those reasons I'd say that EE will not be like SEA. Having said that, more "westernized" EE countries/cities will probably be much easier than the rest (because there will be more expats at least, and the locals are, or will want to seem, international in their outlook/attitude).

My experiences have been very different to this over the years. I have found that initially people are cold, but once they open up their hospitality is humbling to say the least. They are very wary of foreigners at first, but its amazing what a bit of vodka does. Its actually quite easy to build a social circle if you spend enough time there, but it does take a bit of time. It does help if you speak the language.

Eastern Europe is a diverse place though and the culture does vary.

Quality of life is better in Asia if you have money, and its far cheaper. Food is better in Asia. Women are easier in Asia. More expats and easier to get around. Weather is much better, the russian winters and EE kill me.

EE and Russia have hotter women by far. No comparison. They are my ideal though, so I am biased in this regard. EE and Russia offers more in the way of adventure too. Go to Russia and gradually move east for a few months. You will see some of the craziest shit in your life.

[Beyond Borders]

(12-14-2012 04:37 AM)Hooligan Harry Wrote:  

Eastern Europe is a diverse place though and the culture does vary.

Quality of life is better in Asia if you have money, and its far cheaper. Food is better in Asia. Women are easier in Asia. More expats and easier to get around. Weather is much better, the russian winters and EE kill me.

EE and Russia have hotter women by far. No comparison. They are my ideal though, so I am biased in this regard. EE and Russia offers more in the way of adventure too. Go to Russia and gradually move east for a few months. You will see some of the craziest shit in your life.

Grab up an Eastern European broad and move to Asia = ultimate solution?

That aside, can you explain what you mean by EE and Russia having more adventure?

[Hooligan Harry]

(12-14-2012 04:41 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

(12-14-2012 04:37 AM)Hooligan Harry Wrote:  

Eastern Europe is a diverse place though and the culture does vary.

Quality of life is better in Asia if you have money, and its far cheaper. Food is better in Asia. Women are easier in Asia. More expats and easier to get around. Weather is much better, the russian winters and EE kill me.

EE and Russia have hotter women by far. No comparison. They are my ideal though, so I am biased in this regard. EE and Russia offers more in the way of adventure too. Go to Russia and gradually move east for a few months. You will see some of the craziest shit in your life.

Grab up an Eastern European broad and move to Asia = ultimate solution?

That aside, can you explain what you mean by EE and Russia having more adventure?

Dont joke bro. The Russians are invading Thailand at the moment. Its an option, and with the tax benefits out of Singapore these days and my desire to get the hell out of Australia its being considered.

Russia is insane. The people are insane. I have seen the most fucked up shit go down in that place. I dare anyone to take the M55 east from Irkutsk for 300-400km and stop off in those little towns and villages. Hell, even from Krasnoyarsk to Irkutsk. Also when it comes to entertainment, the Russians are over the top. Everything is in excess and there is always an incident. Its a country of endless incidents.

EE is far more diverse than Asia too.

When I say adventure, I mean danger to a degree.

[Beyond Borders]

(12-14-2012 04:54 AM)Hooligan Harry Wrote:  

(12-14-2012 04:41 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

(12-14-2012 04:37 AM)Hooligan Harry Wrote:  

Eastern Europe is a diverse place though and the culture does vary.

Quality of life is better in Asia if you have money, and its far cheaper. Food is better in Asia. Women are easier in Asia. More expats and easier to get around. Weather is much better, the russian winters and EE kill me.

EE and Russia have hotter women by far. No comparison. They are my ideal though, so I am biased in this regard. EE and Russia offers more in the way of adventure too. Go to Russia and gradually move east for a few months. You will see some of the craziest shit in your life.

Grab up an Eastern European broad and move to Asia = ultimate solution?

That aside, can you explain what you mean by EE and Russia having more adventure?

Dont joke bro. The Russians are invading Thailand at the moment. Its an option, and with the tax benefits out of Singapore these days and my desire to get the hell out of Australia its being considered.

Russia is insane. The people are insane. I have seen the most fucked up shit go down in that place. I dare anyone to take the M55 east from Irkutsk for 300-400km and stop off in those little towns and villages. Hell, even from Krasnoyarsk to Irkutsk. Also when it comes to entertainment, the Russians are over the top. Everything is in excess and there is always an incident. Its a country of endless incidents.

EE is far more diverse than Asia too.

When I say adventure, I mean danger to a degree.

Hmmm...sounds like Asia is another win on that note too then, at least for the time being. I don't mind a bit of danger, but insane incidents left and right doesn't exactly sound like fun to me. I wouldn't mind traveling there but doesn't sound ideal for a living destination.

Sorry to do this again, but what do you mean more diverse? Asia is a huge, ridiculously diverse territory, especially culturally. Or do you mean they are just more "diverse-looking?"

[DirectDanger]

You guys seem to confirm what I thought it was probably like. I will probably end up just spending one or two weeks in a city and then moving on to a new place trying to see as much as I can over several months, instead of staying in one spot and trying to build up a circle of friends.

Appreciate all the good info.