[savilerow]

Huge boxing fan myself. Looking forward to this. I'd like to see Marquez win, I sincerely believe he won the third fight. Pacquiao for sure won the second one, first one the judges got right with a draw.

Thoughts?

[Timoteo]

Marquez's style definitely gives Pac problems - he takes advantage of Pac's agression like no other fighter. Marquez, though older, appears much stronger physically for this fight, and Pac seems to have slipped a little for some reason. This is Marquez's moment.

[Mojorisin808]

Marquez is gonna kick some butt tonight!

[Tex Pro]

Pacquiao got knocked the fuck out:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/09/sports...round.html

[JayMillz]

Not that it was ever going to happen, but I wonder what this means for Mayweather JR.

[CMan0928]

I'm glad somebody finally fucked Pacquiao up.

[Merenguero]

(12-09-2012 08:30 AM)JayMillz Wrote:  

Not that it was ever going to happen, but I wonder what this means for Mayweather JR.

It will probably just increase the chances that Mayweather will fight Saul Alvarez sometime during 2013.

[Timoteo]

Floyd's people have already said he plans to fight twice in 2013, sometime in the middle of the year, and again towards the end. There will still be interest in Mayweather/Pacquiao, but now if Floyd wins they'll say it's because Pac slipped. Two losses in a row, including a brutal knockout doesn't bode well for the fight. The only money making fights for Floyd would be a young up-and-comer like Alvarez, Gamboa, etc.

Pac getting dropped (twice) by a fighter that isn't particularly quick, doesn't have great footwork, but is a counterpuncher like Mayweather doesn't bode well for Pac's future in the game. I've always given Floyd a slight advantage over Pac because of what I saw last night - Pac comes forward, and leaves himself exposed. Most fighters simply aren't quick enough to take advantage of that, but for some reason Marquez gave Pac trouble. Floyd is super quick and accurate, and is more difficult to hit than Marquez ever was. I thought a Floyd/Pac fight would be close because Pac's punch output is higher than Floyd's is, while Floyd is highly accurate while throwing a lot less. I wanted to see Floyd fight someone that forced him out of the defensive shell early and made him exchange more. I still want to see them fight, but there may be no point now.

[Bacchus]

Killer punch from Marquez



at old dude reaching out

[Excelsior]

[Joga Bonito]

Lol, at these pics. That knockout punch by Marquez was definitely vicious.

[Timoteo]

The timing on the punch was perfect. Pacquiao was lunging forward (providing some of the force), and Marquez planted and threw, catching Pac at the most forceful point (instead of catching Pac at the END of the punch, he caught him in the middle of the punch, when the most power and leverage is generated). It was ill the way his arms were folded under him, and he hit face first - asleep before he landed. If you've been watching boxing for any length of time, you know when I guy goes face first, he's not getting up.

Those pics of "Sleeping Pacquiao" are hilarious!

[temujin]

Easier to knock a guy out when you've been injecting yourself with steroids.

[Veloce]

I've always felt from watching Pac that one day his loose, freeflowing, somewhat carefree style will get the best of him. One little split second like that and that's all she wrote. I still think he's the better fighter.

[OGNorCal707]

I like Pacquiao, but I say the guy is done. Who else is going to fight, he's already ducked Mayweather for days and fought a bunch of less competition. Now he gets knocked out by Marquez who got his ass handed to him by Mayweather. Maybe Manny fights Floyd, but at this point there is no way I can see Manny beating him. Mayweather should probably fight Tim Bradley, although that would probably be another easy win for him. I think Pacquiao should just retire and focus on all his other life pursuits. Surely, he's slipped from all the pound for pound lists, I think you got to move Sergio Martinez up to number 2 on that list.

[scorpio]

Pac lost his last two fights. Doesn't look so good.

[Timoteo]

(12-09-2012 03:07 PM)OGNorCal707 Wrote:  

I like Pacquiao, but I say the guy is done. Who else is going to fight, he's already ducked Mayweather for days and fought a bunch of less competition. Now he gets knocked out by Marquez who got his ass handed to him by Mayweather. Maybe Manny fights Floyd, but at this point there is no way I can see Manny beating him. Mayweather should probably fight Tim Bradley, although that would probably be another easy win for him. I think Pacquiao should just retire and focus on all his other life pursuits. Surely, he's slipped from all the pound for pound lists, I think you got to move Sergio Martinez up to number 2 on that list.

I expect the wife will get into his ear and try to talk him into retiring. It's always a little sad see the reactions of the wives and girlfriends when their man gets hurt, or is on the canvas and not moving. She was trying to fight her way to the ring apron, and security kept blocking her from getting to him. Manny hasn't been fully invested mentally in a while. First it was the marriage problems, then the religious conversion along with his political responsibilities. You really can't be at the top of the fight game with all of that happening. It has to be an all-consuming pursuit, or you're risking getting yourself hurt. There's really nothing left to accomplish as a fighter. He should probably move on.

[Dr. Howard]

Yep, I think Pacquaio just has too much other stuff going on to be the best. Its like Rocky when he's all rolling around in the grass with Adrian while Clubber is training.

He's not some do nothing, looks good, politician either. He's a federal senator in the Philippines (I think?) and when I did some work there he was always calling guys in to his office, showing up for stuff, redirecting shit or having meetings. Generally, his political agendas were screwing with the guys we needed to meet with to get our stuff done. Hes not a "uh oh crisis, time to head to the ranch to fish or burn some brush" kind of guy.

(12-09-2012 03:14 PM)Timoteo Wrote:  

(12-09-2012 03:07 PM)OGNorCal707 Wrote:  

I like Pacquiao, but I say the guy is done. Who else is going to fight, he's already ducked Mayweather for days and fought a bunch of less competition. Now he gets knocked out by Marquez who got his ass handed to him by Mayweather. Maybe Manny fights Floyd, but at this point there is no way I can see Manny beating him. Mayweather should probably fight Tim Bradley, although that would probably be another easy win for him. I think Pacquiao should just retire and focus on all his other life pursuits. Surely, he's slipped from all the pound for pound lists, I think you got to move Sergio Martinez up to number 2 on that list.

I expect the wife will get into his ear and try to talk him into retiring. It's always a little sad see the reactions of the wives and girlfriends when their man gets hurt, or is on the canvas and not moving. She was trying to fight her way to the ring apron, and security kept blocking her from getting to him. Manny hasn't been fully invested mentally in a while. First it was the marriage problems, then the religious conversion along with his political responsibilities. You really can't be at the top of the fight game with all of that happening. It has to be an all-consuming pursuit, or you're risking getting yourself hurt. There's really nothing left to accomplish as a fighter. He should probably move on.

[poutsara]

(12-09-2012 02:29 PM)Timoteo Wrote:  

The timing on the punch was perfect. Pacquiao was lunging forward (providing some of the force), and Marquez planted and threw, catching Pac at the most forceful point (instead of catching Pac at the END of the punch, he caught him in the middle of the punch, when the most power and leverage is generated). It was ill the way his arms were folded under him, and he hit face first - asleep before he landed. If you've been watching boxing for any length of time, you know when I guy goes face first, he's not getting up.

Those pics of "Sleeping Pacquiao" are hilarious!

The way he just fell forward like that reminded me of Rocky IV where Apollo Creed gets knocked out and dies by Ivan Drago.

[rlongo924]

Pacquiao actually looked really good for the first 6 rounds, very sharp and quick. I think he's still got a lot left, he just got caught with a perfect shot, it happens in boxing.

Big props to Marquez, he's never had anything given to him his entire career, he deserves it.

I'm thinking Pacquiao fights Rios in April, then fights Marquez again next Oct/Nov. No way he retires.

[Excelsior]

[bojangles]

thought Pac looked good, but as some of the greats have found out, one punch can end it easily. Lennox Lewis was on the end of 2 of those 'once in a lifetime' punches and he could take some serious hits

[Timoteo]

Pac's slippage is less physical and more mental. Before the Bradley fight, Roach was having issues with Pac showing up on time to train. He's become more unpredictable and flaky. In their first fight (the draw), Manny was very aggressive and got caught, but didn't go down. He fought more cautiously the next two fights, and barely got the win. Both guys wanted to hang it out there more in this one, because each wanted a decisive victory after 3 controversial endings. He got careless in the third round (backing straight out, leaving himself open for the right) and got dropped. Manny pushed hard for the knockout in the 4th round when he hurt Marquez, but didn't get it. He got careless again in the 6th against a guy that's always been able to counter him well. You never really know how a fighter will respond mentally after a brutal knockout, but for the most part I think Manny is fine physically. He only knows how to fight one way, and can still beat most fighters out there. I just question how much he really WANTS to fight now.

[chochemonger1]

(12-10-2012 11:07 AM)Timoteo Wrote:  

Pac's slippage is less physical and more mental. Before the Bradley fight, Roach was having issues with Pac showing up on time to train. He's become more unpredictable and flaky. In their first fight (the draw), Manny was very aggressive and got caught, but didn't go down. He fought more cautiously the next two fights, and barely got the win. Both guys wanted to hang it out there more in this one, because each wanted a decisive victory after 3 controversial endings. He got careless in the third round (backing straight out, leaving himself open for the right) and got dropped. Manny pushed hard for the knockout in the 4th round when he hurt Marquez, but didn't get it. He got careless again in the 6th against a guy that's always been able to counter him well. You never really know how a fighter will respond mentally after a brutal knockout, but for the most part I think Manny is fine physically. He only knows how to fight one way, and can still beat most fighters out there. I just question how much he really WANTS to fight now.

I am a Manny fan, but speed is so important to his success. So at age 34, it seems pretty diificult for him to be the way he was 2 or 3 years ago.....when he was untouchable and unstopable. He would have beat Mayweather then. Now Floyd would have the upper hand.
Smart man that Floyd Mayweather.

[Timoteo]

(12-10-2012 12:53 PM)chochemonger1 Wrote:  

(12-10-2012 11:07 AM)Timoteo Wrote:  

Pac's slippage is less physical and more mental. Before the Bradley fight, Roach was having issues with Pac showing up on time to train. He's become more unpredictable and flaky. In their first fight (the draw), Manny was very aggressive and got caught, but didn't go down. He fought more cautiously the next two fights, and barely got the win. Both guys wanted to hang it out there more in this one, because each wanted a decisive victory after 3 controversial endings. He got careless in the third round (backing straight out, leaving himself open for the right) and got dropped. Manny pushed hard for the knockout in the 4th round when he hurt Marquez, but didn't get it. He got careless again in the 6th against a guy that's always been able to counter him well. You never really know how a fighter will respond mentally after a brutal knockout, but for the most part I think Manny is fine physically. He only knows how to fight one way, and can still beat most fighters out there. I just question how much he really WANTS to fight now.

I am a Manny fan, but speed is so important to his success. So at age 34, it seems pretty diificult for him to be the way he was 2 or 3 years ago.....when he was untouchable and unstopable. He would have beat Mayweather then. Now Floyd would have the upper hand.
Smart man that Floyd Mayweather.

Marquez isn't very quick, but he always gave Manny fits, even at HIS fastest. Styles definitely make fights, and Floyd has a way of dictating the pace of his fights. He likes to fight backing up and against the ropes, because he's a counterpuncher just like Marquez is. He's also quicker with his hands than Marquez, and more accurate. I always felt that Manny's come-forward aggression played into Floyd's strengths. The only advantage I saw with Pac against Floyd is in punch output, but it's really difficult to land significant shots to Floyd's head. While Manny probably isn't as fast as he was 4 or 5 years ago, he's still that much quicker now than pretty much anyone he fights. He didn't get caught by Marquez because he's slowed down, but because he's gotten more careless. All of his knockdowns of Marquez were more due to Marquez not having great balance and footwork than from being truly hurt. Marquez got right up from every knockdown. In fact, I think he was more hurt than he's ever been against Pac in the 4th round of this fight (when his nose got broken and bloodied), yet he DIDN'T go down on that shot.