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Data Sheet: Restraining Orders
#1

Data Sheet: Restraining Orders

I am offering to this forum what I have learned since posting this previous thread:

http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-15554.html

That will give you a little background. Long story short...a young lady went absolutely nuts on me. Approaching Glenn Close nuts. A giant shit storm ensued. This was a traumatic experience. Hopefully I can turn it into a positive one. What you should know:

Unstable Women
-A woman will not go crazy out of the blue. There will be warning signs. Heed those warning signs and extricate yourself. Warning signs will be exacerbated by sexual intercourse. I have no idea what the best way to extricate is, whatever I tried didn't work. I clearly could have handled that aspect better. Some warnings signs:
*An unsubstantiated past including living in many different cities.
*Anger.
*Physical threats couched as flirting.
*Evidence of childhood abuse.
*Obsessive need for attention.
*Multiple phone numbers.
*Cyclical craziness i.e. everything is cool for a couple of weeks, 3 days of intense drama...repeat.
*Evidence of previous criminal behavior/ A general criminal mind.
I guess it's kind of obvious...

-Don't try and understand them. Your natural instinct is to believe they will come to realize they are behaving so irrationally that they will stop, or that you can "explain," and everything will be great. Once a girl takes that step into stalker territory by popping in on you or blowing up your phone, run.

-This is how they get control. Stalking is often the only way a scorned woman can exert any control, by commanding attention from someone who has become, at the very least, disinterested. Attention is what they want. Whether that attention is positive or negative is largely irrelevant. Don't expect how potentially embarrassing telling the story to your boss or the judge is to be a deterrent.

-They've probably done it before. And they are doing it again, because there were no consequences, and/or positive reinforcement from the last episode. Let's face it. How many female stalkers do you see in jail. Even if you are a private dick, and you have evidence, unless she has a prior record, she will likely not get any jailtime with a conviction, and be represented by a public defender. No time, no money. They get a high out of making you squirm. Don't squirm.

-They will lie about everything and anything. They're not scared of the police.

-If this is a shit where you eat situation...Neighbor/co-worker/schoolmate Do not expect the administration to be of any assistance, regardless of who is in the right. They do not want to get involved. Their primary concerns are 1) Don't get sued, 2) Maintain the most profitable situation they can regarding each of you. They will act in their best interests which are not the same as yours. Do not rely on them to mediate.

-Start documenting craziness. Save everything. You'll need it. If a woman is causing you distress by showing up at your house or blowing up your phone, I would suggest making a police report. It really can't hurt. Unless she checks at the police station, there is no reason for her to know you made a report. The police will likely tell you to get a restraining order.

-Your openness will be used against you, and she will go after your weaknesses. They will know your primary reaction will be avoidance. They will be prepared for that. Don't think simply going incommunicado is going to solve your problems. That will just make her madder. I became especially paranoid that as a result of my trusting nature, this young lady took the opportunity to hack into my computer while I was asleep, at a time when relations were better. One of my computer nerd friends showed me that if you use firefox, all of your passwords can be exposed within 30 seconds. She totally could have done it. I am surprised she didn't. I'm still kind of paranoid that she's saving that for when she really needs it. I used to leave my house and my car unlocked. She could have mega fucked shit up.
NEVER leave your computer or phone unattended.

-If things start getting out of control, sleep somewhere else, and/or try to avoid being alone. She's not going to go nuts on you in front of other people. It's also nice to say, "I was at my friend Joe's House at 9pm on Sat the 16th" when she says to the judge you were outside her house, or otherwise stalking her.

-Keep it together. Once things start spinning out of control, it's easy to get paranoid and have your thinking and judgment become clouded. People will think you are crazy, even when you are telling the truth, because they wont believe all the crazy shit she has done. The less you say, the better.

-Every female except your mother who you tell the story to will reply by saying, "What did you do?"

Legal Process
Getting a restraining order is a catch 22. On the one hand, there is a huge advantage to the person who files first. On the other hand, by getting one, you are almost ensuring she will retaliate with one back. It's a tough decision. Some things to consider:

-A restraining order is a civil action. Violation of a restraining order is a criminal offense.

-In most states an RO requires a relationship of some sort, either familial or dating. Once you take a woman to bed, you are opening yourself up to a very specific avenue of legal liability. Absent this relationship, this would fall under harassment as opposed to ROs.

-An order is issued ex parte meaning with out notice. You, or she, will go in front of the judge and plead the case. The judge will either deny the order, in which case it ends right there, or temporarily issue an order with a hearing set for about 2 weeks down the line. That means if she is a co-worker, and she makes up a story for the judge, and the judge issues a TRO (temporary restraining order) you wont be able to go to work until the hearing...2 weeks later. You will likely be ordered to stay 100 yards away from her school/work/home. An e-mail/text/phone call, or showing up at any of these places will be a violation of the order, and is a criminal offense. The police dont care if she made up the whole story. DONT VIOLATE THE ORDER. If the order allows you access to the workplace with contact restrictions, have a co-worker escort you where you may come into contact. This can be extremely stressful.

-Unless you are broke, get a lawyer if you are a defendant. To expose the order as frivolous/fraudulent, she will need to be cross examined after she tells her story. The judge is going to be a lot more lenient with your lawyer cross examining her, as opposed to you...her accused abuser. Save all of your texts, voicemails, call logs. Lawyers are strange. I had a hard time getting a lawyer to commit to being in court on the day I needed them. I had money. I offered to pay them. All of a sudden, they weren't available. You need to sell your lawyer on the case. Do not assume that because you've spent some time on the phone with them, and they can bill you, that they are your lawyer. The lawyer is going to assume that you are lying to him and your story is bullshit. Be weary of the lawyer who says, "Yeah, this is no problem." You want the lawyer who will say, "I can't promise anything," Regardless of how slam dunk your case is.

-Although there is gender bias, I did not feel it. I went before 4 judges, 3 of them women. Everyone was fair. I think the fact that my stalker was a nut was my biggest asset. The more she talked, the better I looked. Although I had several lawyers, male and female, confirm my instinct that it was a good idea to have a female attorney. My attorney wound up being a male. I had an attorney when I was a defendant, and did not use one when I was a plaintiff.

-Service. If you get one against her, she will need to be served. Do not assume the police know where she lives, or that she's listed, or that they took down her drivers license, or anything like that. The court will rely on you as to where to serve her. She must be served IN HAND by a police officer or constable. Do not assume the police are going to FIND OUT where she lives, or where to serve her.

-The order, even if it is dismissed at the hearing, will be on your record, or some form of your record. A frivolous/fraudulent RO will be attached to you...forever.

-The underlying objective is to expose her actions as having an ulterior motive. That is the argument you are making. She is acting out of scorn/power/financial/watching you suffer.

-Whatever state you are in, read the statute. Read it, understand it, and hammer away at it. The statute is your friend.

-Remain calm at all times. Absolutely never lose your temper, and never display frustration. Be polite and courteous to everyone you encounter, as you will be dealing with a lot of administrators and bureaucrats. You want to be as non-threatening as possible in court.

-Do not be evasive when answering questions. I found this to be counter intuitive, but it was later confirmed by my attorney. It makes you look shady. Tell your story and answer questions when they are asked. Don't think about your answer for 15 seconds. My attorney said, "You're not a choir boy, don't try to come across as one." Good advice.

-Order transcripts of all the hearings.


Be careful out there guys. I'm not an innocent victim, but I am a victim. I did run into someone out of the ordinary, but the way I was behaving, something similar to this, but probably not as severe, was inevitably going to happen. I hope none of you ever come to need any of this advice.
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#2

Data Sheet: Restraining Orders

Excellent post. This is an area of the law with which I am very familiar, although I have not been dealing with it as much in the past few years as I had been in the past. These types of orders, known in my state as Protective Orders and Peace Orders, seem to be quite a problem in the D.C. area. I think every girl I have ever met in the D.C. area has either had Peace Orders or Protective Orders issued against her or has had them issued against someone else at some point.

In my state, Protective Orders are obtained against persons related by blood or marriage, persons with whom you have a child in common, and against cohabitants. A cohabitant is a person with whom you are engaged in a sexual relationship and with whom you have resided for at least several months. Peace Orders are obtained against all other persons. A Protective Order can remain in effect for up to a year and can be extended for periods of six months. Peace Orders can remain in effect for up to six months and can also be extended for periods of six months. In order to obtain either of these types of orders, you generally have to prove some type of assault or an act which placed you in fear of imminent serious bodily harm by clear and convincing evidence. Peace Orders cover several acts not covered by Protective Orders, such as harassment. People love to throw around the word "harassment," but in reality, it is an act which is very rarely proven. Most of the traffic is some form of assault or acts which place one in fear of serious imminent bodily harm.

The O.P. shows an extensive familarity of this subject matter. Temporary Orders may be obtained ex parte. In my state the standard of proof for a Temporary Order is extremely low. If the Petitioner and Respondent share the same workplace, as the O.P. mentioned, this can create problems. In many cases, the judge can create an exception for the parties to have contact for purposes of employment while the Temporary Order is pending. In some cases, the judge for whatever reason does not make such an exception. A solution to this problem can be that after the Respondent is served with the Temporary Order, he may try to file a Motion to Modify the Temporary Order to allow contact while the Temporary Order is pending. Many of life's problems can be fixed by filing Motions.

As far as having the Respondent served with the Temporary Order, it may be a good idea to find out what law enforcement agency is serving her or better yet, what officer is serving her and give the officer all your contact information and all of the information you have on the person who is to be served. In my experience, this can make a huge difference.

The O.P. also mentioned that parties who are served with Temporary Orders file their own Petitions in retaliation. This is entirely true. Judges are well aware of this and often consider the person who filed his own Petition in retaliation to be less credible than the original Petitioner. Judges often look to the amount of time which passed between the acts alleged by the person filing the retaliatory Petition and the date of the filing of the retaliatory Petition. In Protective Order cases, there is no time limit between the time of the acts and the time in which one must file the Petition. I have seen people allege acts which occurred years before the filing. In Peace Order cases, the Petition must be filed within thirty days of the alleged act.

Characteristics of women who are likely to file these types of Petitions in addition to those which the O.P. mentioned are women who have been divorced multiple times, women who have filed such Petitions and/or had such Petitions filed against them in the past, and women who have had alcohol-related traffic offenses and/or drug offenses (I know the O.P. mentioned a criminal background). Also, if the other party has been convicted of impeachable offenses (theft, forgery, most felonies) this can be used to impeach her credibility.

One thing I believe the O.P. left out was that if a girl is a real lunatic and you want her to leave you alone, you should always give her written notice to not contact you. This can be done by text message, e-mail, and regular mail.
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#3

Data Sheet: Restraining Orders

A few comments comments:
-I tried to file a motion but the clerk told me it takes 10 days anyway to get heard, so it was not going to be of much use. She could have been bullshitting me.
-You are probably correct about telling her not to contact you in writing. I simply went incommunicado after she went over the line. That didn't work.
-It seemed like her record was off limits to me. A local police officer who finally believed my story pulled her record, confirmed that there was stuff on it, but wouldn't tell me what it was. She did inform me that there were no violent offenses on it. I couldn't figure out how to get a hold of it. Misdemeanors and traffic offenses are available online. Felonies are not, at least that's my understanding.
-Motions are extremely useful. My lawyer filed an extremely innovative motion which stopped her in her tracks on her 2nd restraining order(That's right, she filed one, lost, then immediately filed another one).
-If a judgement or a motion if given in your favor, ask for the judgement to be rendered WITH PREJUDICE.
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#4

Data Sheet: Restraining Orders

This is gold, thanks for taking the time to post it. I cannot imagine how nuts the actual story behind all of this is.

This should also be required reading for any man headed into a divorce as well. Men (myself included) often under estimate the crazy cold behavior of women, a short aside story as an example...talking to my Dad the other day (also divorced) he said he smelled the bullshit that is marriage counselling after the first day and headed straight to the bank to lock down his assets when the session was done. A week later when he was back the bank teller told him "your wife showed up here and tried to do the same thing 20 minutes later"...yet she was the one who suggested counselling to try to work things out.

An angry and crazy woman has no boundaries, they go all in to try to win. This post is another great example.

Why do the heathen rage and the people imagine a vain thing? Psalm 2:1 KJV
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#5

Data Sheet: Restraining Orders

Cluster B... every man should know the behaviors.

http://theprivateman.wordpress.com/2012/...g-for-men/
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#6

Data Sheet: Restraining Orders

Does this vary by state, and if so what state were you in g?

If you're going to try, go all the way. There is no other feeling like that. You will be alone with the gods, and the nights will flame with fire. You will ride life straight to perfect laughter. It's the only good fight there is.

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if it happened to you it’s your fault, I got no sympathy and I don’t believe your version of events.
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#7

Data Sheet: Restraining Orders

I'm sure it does. I'm still paranoid to reveal details. If you look at some of my first few posts you can figure it out.
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#8

Data Sheet: Restraining Orders

Quote: (11-25-2012 03:51 AM)Merenguero Wrote:  

Excellent post. This is an area of the law with which I am very familiar, although I have not been dealing with it as much in the past few years as I had been in the past. These types of orders, known in my state as Protective Orders and Peace Orders, seem to be quite a problem in the D.C. area. I think every girl I have ever met in the D.C. area has either had Peace Orders or Protective Orders issued against her or has had them issued against someone else at some point.

In my state, Protective Orders are obtained against persons related by blood or marriage, persons with whom you have a child in common, and against cohabitants. A cohabitant is a person with whom you are engaged in a sexual relationship and with whom you have resided for at least several months. Peace Orders are obtained against all other persons. A Protective Order can remain in effect for up to a year and can be extended for periods of six months. Peace Orders can remain in effect for up to six months and can also be extended for periods of six months. In order to obtain either of these types of orders, you generally have to prove some type of assault or an act which placed you in fear of imminent serious bodily harm by clear and convincing evidence. Peace Orders cover several acts not covered by Protective Orders, such as harassment. People love to throw around the word "harassment," but in reality, it is an act which is very rarely proven. Most of the traffic is some form of assault or acts which place one in fear of serious imminent bodily harm.

The O.P. shows an extensive familarity of this subject matter. Temporary Orders may be obtained ex parte. In my state the standard of proof for a Temporary Order is extremely low. If the Petitioner and Respondent share the same workplace, as the O.P. mentioned, this can create problems. In many cases, the judge can create an exception for the parties to have contact for purposes of employment while the Temporary Order is pending. In some cases, the judge for whatever reason does not make such an exception. A solution to this problem can be that after the Respondent is served with the Temporary Order, he may try to file a Motion to Modify the Temporary Order to allow contact while the Temporary Order is pending. Many of life's problems can be fixed by filing Motions.

As far as having the Respondent served with the Temporary Order, it may be a good idea to find out what law enforcement agency is serving her or better yet, what officer is serving her and give the officer all your contact information and all of the information you have on the person who is to be served. In my experience, this can make a huge difference.

The O.P. also mentioned that parties who are served with Temporary Orders file their own Petitions in retaliation. This is entirely true. Judges are well aware of this and often consider the person who filed his own Petition in retaliation to be less credible than the original Petitioner. Judges often look to the amount of time which passed between the acts alleged by the person filing the retaliatory Petition and the date of the filing of the retaliatory Petition. In Protective Order cases, there is no time limit between the time of the acts and the time in which one must file the Petition. I have seen people allege acts which occurred years before the filing. In Peace Order cases, the Petition must be filed within thirty days of the alleged act.

Characteristics of women who are likely to file these types of Petitions in addition to those which the O.P. mentioned are women who have been divorced multiple times, women who have filed such Petitions and/or had such Petitions filed against them in the past, and women who have had alcohol-related traffic offenses and/or drug offenses (I know the O.P. mentioned a criminal background). Also, if the other party has been convicted of impeachable offenses (theft, forgery, most felonies) this can be used to impeach her credibility.

One thing I believe the O.P. left out was that if a girl is a real lunatic and you want her to leave you alone, you should always give her written notice to not contact you. This can be done by text message, e-mail, and regular mail.

@ Merenguero

Let's say I wanted to do a little PI work and see if my new girlfriend had a history of civil litigation. I know this is technically public record, however, it seems to be quite difficult to uncover dockets from other states in real time from my home computer. For example:

I am dating Mary. I know Mary lived in portland oregon from 2009-2011. Mary has a unique last name.

Other than going to the physical trial court in Oregon, how can I view/search for these dockets?
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#9

Data Sheet: Restraining Orders

Quote: (12-17-2012 01:40 AM)LowerCaseG Wrote:  

Quote: (11-25-2012 03:51 AM)Merenguero Wrote:  

Excellent post. This is an area of the law with which I am very familiar, although I have not been dealing with it as much in the past few years as I had been in the past. These types of orders, known in my state as Protective Orders and Peace Orders, seem to be quite a problem in the D.C. area. I think every girl I have ever met in the D.C. area has either had Peace Orders or Protective Orders issued against her or has had them issued against someone else at some point.

In my state, Protective Orders are obtained against persons related by blood or marriage, persons with whom you have a child in common, and against cohabitants. A cohabitant is a person with whom you are engaged in a sexual relationship and with whom you have resided for at least several months. Peace Orders are obtained against all other persons. A Protective Order can remain in effect for up to a year and can be extended for periods of six months. Peace Orders can remain in effect for up to six months and can also be extended for periods of six months. In order to obtain either of these types of orders, you generally have to prove some type of assault or an act which placed you in fear of imminent serious bodily harm by clear and convincing evidence. Peace Orders cover several acts not covered by Protective Orders, such as harassment. People love to throw around the word "harassment," but in reality, it is an act which is very rarely proven. Most of the traffic is some form of assault or acts which place one in fear of serious imminent bodily harm.

The O.P. shows an extensive familarity of this subject matter. Temporary Orders may be obtained ex parte. In my state the standard of proof for a Temporary Order is extremely low. If the Petitioner and Respondent share the same workplace, as the O.P. mentioned, this can create problems. In many cases, the judge can create an exception for the parties to have contact for purposes of employment while the Temporary Order is pending. In some cases, the judge for whatever reason does not make such an exception. A solution to this problem can be that after the Respondent is served with the Temporary Order, he may try to file a Motion to Modify the Temporary Order to allow contact while the Temporary Order is pending. Many of life's problems can be fixed by filing Motions.

As far as having the Respondent served with the Temporary Order, it may be a good idea to find out what law enforcement agency is serving her or better yet, what officer is serving her and give the officer all your contact information and all of the information you have on the person who is to be served. In my experience, this can make a huge difference.

The O.P. also mentioned that parties who are served with Temporary Orders file their own Petitions in retaliation. This is entirely true. Judges are well aware of this and often consider the person who filed his own Petition in retaliation to be less credible than the original Petitioner. Judges often look to the amount of time which passed between the acts alleged by the person filing the retaliatory Petition and the date of the filing of the retaliatory Petition. In Protective Order cases, there is no time limit between the time of the acts and the time in which one must file the Petition. I have seen people allege acts which occurred years before the filing. In Peace Order cases, the Petition must be filed within thirty days of the alleged act.

Characteristics of women who are likely to file these types of Petitions in addition to those which the O.P. mentioned are women who have been divorced multiple times, women who have filed such Petitions and/or had such Petitions filed against them in the past, and women who have had alcohol-related traffic offenses and/or drug offenses (I know the O.P. mentioned a criminal background). Also, if the other party has been convicted of impeachable offenses (theft, forgery, most felonies) this can be used to impeach her credibility.

One thing I believe the O.P. left out was that if a girl is a real lunatic and you want her to leave you alone, you should always give her written notice to not contact you. This can be done by text message, e-mail, and regular mail.

@ Merenguero

Let's say I wanted to do a little PI work and see if my new girlfriend had a history of civil litigation. I know this is technically public record, however, it seems to be quite difficult to uncover dockets from other states in real time from my home computer. For example:

I am dating Mary. I know Mary lived in portland oregon from 2009-2011. Mary has a unique last name.

Other than going to the physical trial court in Oregon, how can I view/search for these dockets?

If you go to http://courts.oregon.gov/ojd/onlineservi...ndex.aspx, you can subscribe to ojin online which allows you to view court case information from all 36 counties in Oregon. This includes civil, small claims, tax, domestic, and criminal cases. You have to pay a $295.00 setup fee and a $10.00 monthly fee. It's not exactly free, but it may be more than worth it for you. There is a similar website in my jurisdiction, but it is completely free and everyone I know accesses it.
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#10

Data Sheet: Restraining Orders

Ok, good info, I was just using Oregon as an example, it sounds like every state should have some sort of "pay for dockets" membership available.
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#11

Data Sheet: Restraining Orders

Quote: (12-17-2012 02:05 AM)LowerCaseG Wrote:  

Ok, good info, I was just using Oregon as an example, it sounds like every state should have some sort of "pay for dockets" membership available.

I think most do and some state's databases seem to be better than others. The one for Oregon seems to be pretty good. In any event, I believe that is your best bet for finding out court information for any state.
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#12

Data Sheet: Restraining Orders

This is really good info. You gotta watch for people using TROs as weapons too.

Myself, I have never had a TRO on me from a situation with a girl I was fucking but from dudes I've been in fights with and employees I've fired.

My crazy girls are all handled by my Samoan sisters/cousins as well as lesbians and a few fat girls I befriended.

I suggest that if you get into some shit check your local court website regularly for a while afterwards.

One thing that someone else may have mentioned is that you gotta watch out for is that from the time the hearing is requested to the time of your service, as well as the time between your service and your hearing, the TRO is in effect.

I personally got nailed on this. I had no idea that a guy I fired and slapped around a little had applied for one to be served on me. He was stealing from my business but I did not involve the police. His wife called and asked that I meet the two of them at a restaurant so they could apologize, and when I showed up they called the law. The dumb bitch had also texted me when she was on the way, but to the police that didn't matter. From what they told me, according to the rules of their job it couldn't matter.

That particular incident was dismissed at the hearing, and so were the violation charges, but I still had to post a 2 grand bond and pay a lawyer for the court shit.

That's food for thoughts.

Aloha!
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#13

Data Sheet: Restraining Orders

Wow, solid data sheet LowerCaseG. Also good contribution by Merenguero.

This is something I've been meaning to read up on for a while.
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#14

Data Sheet: Restraining Orders

Yes, frankly I'm surprised I haven't heard more stories about kamikazee women on here, although that fake rape thread is some scary shit.
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#15

Data Sheet: Restraining Orders

Excellent post as I am seriously considering this

A man is only as faithful as his options-Chris Rock
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#16

Data Sheet: Restraining Orders

Good information.

However, your lawyer(s) should have filed a motion to get your opponent's criminal record.

Since criminal convictions and bad character can be used for purposes of "impeachment" - i.e. showing that a witness is a liar - in all jurisdictions, a criminal record can be obtain ed upon motion to the court, if not easier as a public record in some places. Your lawyer gets the motion approved, and goes to the court clerk or probation department or state criminal records bureau and gets the print-out. Routine.

Even if there is no criminal record, a record of her being a party to many restraining orders can be relevant. I had a case in which the woman had been herself served restraining orders by several past boyfriends for similar conduct my client was alleging, along with criminal cases.

Even if she was passing bad checks or shoplifting, it is powerful in court.

It's kind of malpractice not to work on getting the opposing party's record right away.
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#17

Data Sheet: Restraining Orders

I've been through this situation twice and all I can say is keep record of every interaction. Any abundance of actual proof is you best friend. Do NOT delete any of your conversation logs. Record phone conversations if possible. Take videos or photos of the stalker and log them. The first time through this really changes a man. No one likes an extremely clingy/crazy person.
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#18

Data Sheet: Restraining Orders

I find this kinds of post fascinating, a good way to have a window to some aspects of USA civil law. I am thankfull that getting Restraining Orders in my country is harder.

"What is important is to try to develop insights and wisdom rather than mere knowledge, respect someone's character rather than his learning, and nurture men of character rather than mere talents." - Inazo Nitobe

When i´m feeling blue, when i just need something to shock me up, i look at this thread and everything get better!

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